Sound system upgrades...

Ok. It has been a while since I've "updated" my car audio. I've been running for a few years with a really nice head unit, some Infinity coaxials, some Infinity 6x9's in the rear (I thought they were blown but it seems the wiring was messed up), an MTX 4 channel 400w amp running only the front speakers, and a 2 channel 250w Lightning Audio Strike amp running the rear speakers. Not too bad, but not too great.

I have been researching a bit lately and purchased a few items to test out... to see what I like, what I don't, what fits, what doesn't, and so on.

I have tried some new coaxials in the front which were nice, but not for me. I have purchased 2 pairs of different mid drivers for the rear that are a bit too large (6.5" - 7"). I made two tiny boxes to mount the mids in the rear panels... didn't work too well. Well ladies and gents, I seem to have finally found a really good match for my tastes.

I have been looking at Car Audio Forum for the past couple months, trying to understand more and see what people like and what they don't. There are a few companies that make high-end audio for homes, and car audio people have been eating up this stuff like mad. Why? Because the speakers are CHEAP (relatively speaking), and sound GREAT! One popular company is Danish Sound Technology , popular because they manufacture speakers under a few different brand names... Vifa, Peerless, Logic, and Scan-Speak. The Vifa and Peerless speakers have been the most popular because they are the easiest to get and a bit cheaper than the Scan-Speak.

I bought two different pairs of Vifa speakers, one which I mounted in the tiny little boxes I mentioned earlier that sounded like *****. Another pair I bought and ended up being the ones I just put in the front of the VX. These things sound AWESOME! The one I ended up installing is the Vifa TC18SG49

http://www.d-s-t.com/vifa/data/foto_tc18sg49.jpg

It sounds awesome, and the pair was only $30, but it is a mid driver and needed a tweeter. So, again, after reading a bit more, I bought the Lanzar DCT 1" silk dome tweeter.

http://www.lanzar.com/el/DCT.jpg

I hooked everything up tonight and the combo sounds (again) AWESOME! Seriously folks, I thought my Infinity's sounded good, but this setup blows it away. Plus, it was cheap... $15. $15 for a silk tweeter that can handle 150w, and was getting good reviews.

Now, I had to decide what to do about rear fill/bass. I hadn't installed the new stuff yet, and was thinking what I needed to do to bring in a bit more bass... without relying on the mids to do it. So, I thought I would use the 4 channel MTX amp to run the fronts and rears (if I wanted to install some rear speakers), and the Lightning Audio amp to run a single 10" sub. I looked around at subs for a couple weeks, looking at anything I could find, but not wanting to spend more than $100. I ended up finding a cheapy but a goody... the XTANT Z104

http://www.mitekfactoryoutlet.com/imgsrvr/Z104.jpg

It was only $37 from SoundDomain.com, and I had to find something that only needed around 200 or so watts to pound. I bought a small QLogic box from Best Buy, threw it in, bridged the LA amp to 250w x 1 4ohm, and the beast lives!!!! I haven't had this much bass since I was listening to DJ Magic Mike and Slick Rick back in the day!

I also decided to play it cheap on the dampening, but I wanted to dampen the doors to get better feel from the front speakers. Not wanting to buy the Dynamat from BB, I went looking at the 'ol Home Depot right next door. I found some foil/foam (very thin) with adhesive on the back. I also bought some foil tape, to tape up edges and seams.

I have only gotten one door done so far (always run into problems when you think it will go quickly), so by 12:30am, I decided to NOT do the drivers side door. I got the dampening on the passenger door, got the Vifa mounted, mounted the tweeter over the stock tweeter location, and put the door cladding back on... sounds great, but I couldn't stop without finally hooking up the sub. The combo is awesome, and I'm still running the Crystal CSX615 coaxials in the drivers door. These will come out tomorrow and the rest will be installed.

I didn't take any pics tonight, but I will show progress on one side tomorrow. I need to update my signature pics, so I HAVE to take pics tomorrow.

Anyway, just thought I'd share. I'm really happy with what I have right now, and VERY happy that all of this hasn't costed me a few hundred dollars to get the sound of a few hundred dollars!

But after driving in my 4cyl Jeep with a soft top, I think the stock speed, sound system...hell...the whole damn stock VX is perfect.

However, with time...upgrades will come. So, speaking of sound... what are the speaker sizes for the fron/rear and are those little tweeters up there in the doors? I have a 2000

I have already replaced the fronts with 6 1/2" Sony Xplod's And wanted to replace the rears with 5 1/4" xplods. Then if the sound isn't what I wanted I will add a sub.
However...the front and rear speakers are 3-ways will that throw the "soundstage" off with a sub?

Sony has a 10'sub and a 222w amp I was looking at, not too expensive but nice enough for me and my budget. The sub is rated to 700w(max). I read that underpowering a speaker is rougher than over powering one. so will the 222w amp drive the 700w sub?

And whats the best way to hook up a sub/amp to the OEM headunit?


Thanks...carl

You should be able to "bridge" the amp for one sub. That means use the outer (+) side of say the left speaker outputs and the outer (-) side of the right speaker outputs on the amp. This will essentially double the output power from the amp to your single 10" sub. It shouldn't hurt the sub at all even though the rating is higher than the amp output.:cool:

The front speakers (I believe) stock are 5.25", and the rears are 4". The fronts can take a 6.5", but you need to watch for the length from front to back of magnet as it could run into the window track. The rears with slight, if any, modification can take a 5.25". With much modification it can take a 6" - 6.25".

The way I understand it, the amp is rated at a certain number of watts... you then divide it up by the number of channels (1, 2, 4), although, you will see almost all 2 or 4 channel amps out there state something like "400w amplifier, 4 channels, 75w per channel"... it doesn't add up, but that's how most do it. When you bridge, you use a positive (+) from one channel and a negative (-) from the other... 2 output terminals, both of which have signal on them.

http://www.bcae1.com/images/gifs/bridg24.gif

You do this to increase the power to the sub... meaning, on a 2 channel, 4 ohm, 250w amp, instead of pushing 75w - 100w divided by 2 channels, I am now pushing 200w - 250w by 1 mono 4 ohm channel. You can also bridge into a 2 ohm or 8 ohm signal, but only recommended for speakers that take that load.

As for the front and rear being 2 or 3 way speakers and throwing of the "sound stage"... well, truth be told, yes, it probably will. Now, whether that really matters to you, it is UP to you. Car manufacturers always push the "6 speaker stereo option" thingy, even though they are out of phase. None of the speakers are equidistant from the listeners ears, and the waves are bombarding them from all around the car. The perfect setup would be you, right in the middle of the VX, and the front speakers aiming in the exact same direction at you, thereby sound like it is in "stereo"... like you cannot tell there is sound just coming from each side but from the sides, middle, and rear.

This won't happen as you need to drive your VX, so you have to be on one side of the car. Many believe you only need some good front speakers and good positioning of the speakers to have the best audio setup. I think it's true, but I also wanted some bass... so a sub can be brought in to bring in the bass without effecting the phasing as much as rear speakers would.

how are the front units wired. Do they have a tweeter running off of them that you plugged the new Lanzar units into?
Also, where did you buy them from?

I bought the Lanzar tweeters from Millionbuy.com (link direct to the tweeter). They shipped fast and everything came as described. The tweeters have a crossover attached in the wiring. I bought some Orion corssovers off of Ebay incase I found some tweeters off of Parts Express that needed a crossover point, but I decided to just use the Lanzar built in corssovers instead.

OK I did a bit of research on the sub and amp I'm considering here's the specs: Both are Sony Xplod

SUB;
10" subwoofer
600w max
single 4 layer 4 ohm voice coil
rated imput power=150w
impedance=4ohms
sensitivity=88db/w/m
freq. response=25-2,800Hz
mass approximately 3.6kg
7lbs 15oz per speaker
gold plated terminals

AMP;
35w X 2rmp @ 4 ohms (100w X 2 max.)
80w X 1rms @ 4 ohms (222w X 1 max.)
low pass filter (80Hz, 12dB / oct.)
high level speaker input
dual mode capability
MOSFET power supply
6v input
gold plated terminals

Now the questions are; will these two work with one another and how will they sound? And, can the amp be wired through the high level speaker inputs to the rear speakers? If so can the rear speakers still work or do their wires have to be dedicated to the amp?
And, finally...If you had these components to hook up to your VX how would you do it?
Oh and would you use the blue ant. wire behind the oem HU to connect to the remote turn on? or would you use something else?

Thanks for all your help and wisdom...carl

Carlymac,
I would say no to the Sony amp! I had one and it went out in a month. I have also seen 2 others that went out in about 2 months. They just don't last. As for the sub, I am using 2 Sony 12"s right now and for what I payed I couldn't ask for anything better (in Missouri I found them for $100 buy 1 get one free at circuit city).

For the amp always look for the RMS output not max power, I would try to find something with a minimum of 250x1 RMS. I have a 600w RMS amp running my 2 12"s and it sound pretty good (actually it shakes the crap out of my roof). Probobally would sound really good if I split them up in 2 boxes.

When I first set up my system off the stock Head unit I just spliced an RCA adapter into the rear speaker wires, the rear speakers will still work fine. I would definately look into an aftermarket head unit that has RCA's built in for a subwoofer. Mine had a LOT of feedback when tapped into the rear speakers. After I got my new head unit It sounds a million times better/clearer.

I would stick with one 10" woofer so you don't get too much base. I think Tones rear door sub mount is a great idea in your case.

Hope this helps,
Alan

Check out the Blaupunkt PA2150 - 400W RMS and it is digital so relatively cool. They've been recommended here before. For some reason Blau has discontinued the whole line after like 5 years with no obvious replacements. I've been picking what I need for my entire system from ebay liquidaters. The PA2150 can be had for about $100 off of ebay (I think MSRP was around $300) and there are 4 or 5 up for auction right now. I got my PA2150 from "Judy's Deals" who still have a bunch listed.

As for the sub driver - go with Tone's mount and pick up a good bare 10" driver from a place like www.partsexpress.com - you'll get way more for your dollar that way.

Class D sub amp is the way to go and it stays small in size. I finally bit the bullet and got the real deal - Crossfire 600w amp under the drivers seat pushing two 10” Crossfire woofers in a sealed enclosure. Still kept a bit of room between them for a jump box and a few tools. I can easily switch back to the rear door sub if I pull the box for space.

I finally finished the install of the mids, the tweets, and the sub in the rear. Many, MANY cuts on the hands and fingers thanks to the foil dampening and the foil tape. Froze my ***** of thanks to the Portland winds, but I got it done.

Instead of posting all the pics in this thread, I thought I'd post a couple and give a link to my ALBUM (<----link) in my gallery.

The Crystal CSX615 6.5" coaxial speakers are up for sale. If no one here wants them they will go on Ebay. I'll post in the for sale forum. I may be selling the Infinity Reference 6.25" coaxials and my Infinity Reference 6x9's too, as well as a pair of Rockford Fosgate coaxials... haven't decided which ones I want to sell.

One more quick note... dampening makes a HUGE difference in the doors! Well, it did for my setup anyway. The speakers sounded ok mounted without any dampening, but there is a HUGE improvement in overall sound quality across the board with the dampening in place!!!

A few pics...

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3072/35vifa3.jpg
Vifa 6.5" woofers... mounted

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/da...ight_door1.jpg

Woofers in the door, tweeter mounted

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3072/35rear6.jpg

Xtant sub in its home

Looks nice, that aint duct tape olding your sound dampener is it?
I finally got my Infinities, they look shaweet, and finally got an amp to use, an Alpine Vpower 360max, specs say it puts out about 100w X 2 rms, just what I need for the infinities. Now to bust out with the dremel and work that door to make it all fit:cool: Im not sure where to mount the crossover, any suggestions?

The tape is a foil tape used for taping seams and is somewhat sticky, but not like a duct or packing tape. The dampening material I used has an adhesive on one side, and is pretty sticky as well, but it had seams being a 12" wide roll.

As for the crossover placement... not too sure. I was thinking about this, too, as I was going to use the Orion crossovers I bought, but I never did. I was thinking of mounting them under the passenger seat, or just finding a place in the doors to zip-tie them to.

I doubt that inside the doors is a good place. When you roll down a wet window, or wash your car period, water does get inside there, not sure how much, but thats the reason we have a clear plastic liner there. One way or another they may get wet/corroded and pooch on you. But mounting them under the passengr seat wouldnt be good for ME cuz people sitting in the back seat have a bad habit of steppin on stuff on their way out. Plus its a long way to run the wires:?: Thats why the amp will be under the drivers seat.

OK...so I should be able to mut my (nice than stock) Boston 6.25's in the door. Is that a tweeter up in the corner of the window? Still new to the VX's...hehehehe... I LOVE IT

Yup. I mounted the tweeter over the stock tweeter "hole"... came out very nicely. My main amp (front and rear speakers) is mounted under the drivers seat, and the amp for the sub is mounted behind the jack in the jack compartment.

The 6.25" Bostons should fit (in theory), but you want to check mounting depth to make sure they don't run into the window track. Also, you may have to do a little trimming on the stock speaker mount... but it should be much, if any.

I'd be curious to find out what model Sony Xplod's were put in the 2001... If there is/was an equivalent retail product, or they were strictly OEM.

Quote:

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Originally posted by WyrreJ
As for the sub driver - go with Tone's mount and pick up a good bare 10" driver from a place like www.partsexpress.com - you'll get way more for your dollar that way.

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By the way, Parts Express is an excellent source for woofers and mids. They sell Vifa, Peerless, Scan-Speak, and many other home audio drivers that will work, are just as nice (if not nicer) that many car audio drivers, and will sound great. You'll just need to make sure a grab a 4ohm speaker (depending on what you want to use it for). They have some really nice products at pretty good prices.

All fine and well, but how do the cones and surrounds hold up against the cold and heat???

Well, I guess I will found out first hand... but I am not by FAR the first person to use these drivers ("these" being home audio drivers from Vifa, Scan-Speak, Peerless, Tang Band, and many others) in car audio. There are MANY posting in caraudioforum.com that have been using and recommending these drivers, tweeters, and subs for a long time.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Spike
I'd be curious to find out what model Sony Xplod's were put in the 2001... If there is/was an equivalent retail product, or they were strictly OEM.

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Well I have never pulled them out to look but from the looks its a Sony OEM speaker, since they are black instead of red.

Ah! the telltale 'Let's make them a different color..'

One more question on the Sony, are they a one way or 2 way speaker?

I believe they are one way's, but I have not had the door off to see for sure.

Thanks,

I would like 2 ways.. but I really want to find something that wont need any (or minimal) cutting, forcing, adjusting...

Crutchfield will list front speakers that should fit. I say "should" because I have never ordered from them and their list of vehicle fitment list of items.