Timing belt replacement disaster

Hello guys,
Could really use some help here before I decide to push this thing into a ditch and set it on fire.

About 2 weeks ago I started hearing what sounded like a lifter tapping in the engine, It would get louder with speed and would quiet down some when idling after the engine warmed up. Decided to go ahead and do the timing belt kit with tensioner replacement since all things pointed to that as the issue. Spent a few days familiarizing myself with the "how-to" and this morning decided to get it done. The first couple hours for disassembly went fine and I was feeling like it was going to go well.......wrong.

I got to the part about lining everything up before removing the old belt and that went fine too. I removed the tensioner and instead of the cam pulleys springing to 12 O'clock they didnt move at all. I put a socket on them and they eventually sprung to about 9 O'clock and 3 O'clock respectively. I read a few posts saying that was normal and to just pull the marks back in and get the belt lined up wit the pulley marks.....which I did. I got everything lined up and clamped in place and put a bar on the tensioner pulley and pulled it forward a little to get the new belt tensioner in place. When I did this, it caused the mark on the crank pulley to go out of line with the mark on the oil pump. I must have took the tensioner off 25 times trying to correct this and it would never line up right once the tensioner was put in place (not pulling the pin on the tensioner though, just resting in place). So like an idiot, I turned the crank back a tiny bit to over correct for when the tensioner goes on......same thing happened, the marks went off on the crank. After hours of frustration I decided to turn the engine with my breaker bar until the marks came back around again to see if the marks would correct themselves and now the lines are all off with the original pulley marks.

Bottom line is it seems I have royally F'ed this up and i need to know how to get back to a solid starting point. How do I get this back to a good starting point? Please help.

Thank,
JImmie

See if this helps...sorry for your trouble man.

http://www.vehicross.info/showthread...ghlight=timing

This one too...

http://www.vehicross.info/showthread...ghlight=timing

Thanks. Unless I am missing it, nothing is telling me how to get the timing reset. One of the links that was supposed to to tell me in one of those threads above was broken. If anyone has instruction or a link to explain how to reset timing please post it up.

Thanks,
Jimmie

Here is the service bulletin information. You might be able to search for it on the net:

Make: ISUZU
Model: VEHICROSS
Year: 1999
Type: ANY
Service Bulletin Number: IB00S005
NHTSA Item Number: 614139
Summary Description:
THIS INFORMATION BULLETIN OUTLINES THE PROPER STEPS TO INDEX THE CAMSHAFTS WITH THE CRANKSHAFT FOR VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH DIRECT ATTACK DOHC 3.2L / 3.5L V6 ENGINE. IN THE EVENT THAT CAMSHAFT TIMING HAS BEEN DISRUPTED, DUE TO TIMING BELT BREAKAGE OR CAMSHAFTS / CRANKSHAFT BEING ROTATED WITHOUT A TIMING BELT, THIS IS IMPORTANT PRIOR TO TIMING BELT INSTALLATION. *TT

Well good news and bad news. I was able to get everything back together using this post...

Here

Unfortunately after going through all this and replacing everything, I stilll have the noise coming from the engine. So it wasnt the tensioner or belt causing the issue:(

I have to assume I am SOL at this point. It must be a rod or bearing I guess. I will try to post up a youtube vid of it when I get a few minutes.

Thanks for your help Mile High.

Well good news and bad news. I was able to get everything back together using this post...

Here

Unfortunately after going through all this and replacing everything, I stilll have the noise coming from the engine. So it wasnt the tensioner or belt causing the issue:(

I have to assume I am SOL at this point. It must be a rod or bearing I guess. I will try to post up a youtube vid of it when I get a few minutes.

Thanks for your help Mile High.

Well good news and bad news. After following the procedure on page 7 of the second link above, I managed to get it running.

Quote:

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Update...And then GOD (or maybe it was Jason!) said let there be Engine Timing...She started and ran better than ever!!

Jason you were 100% correct about the 1.5 turns being sufficient...So here is the summery of the last thing that I did that reestablished timing:

1- With the timing belt removed, I turned the Crankshaft sprocket to the TDC position (The halfmoon cutout on the crankshaft sprocket was at 3 O'clock matching with the timing hatch mark on the oil pump cover

2- I turned the RH Cam (Passenger side) at least 9 times (it really was not necessary, but I wanted to be sure), then I turned it more until the Cam pulley sprung back to 12 O'clock (using the Timing reference mark on the Head...10 O'clock using a real O' clock), on its own.

3- I turned the LH Cam (driver side) at least 9 times (it really was not necessary, but I wanted to be sure), Then I turned it more until it sprung back to 9 O'clock on its own (using the Timing reference mark on the Head), on its own, then I turned it 90 degrees clockwise until the timing mark on the Cam pulley as aligned with the timing mark on the engine at 12 O'clock (using the Timing reference mark on the Head...2 O'clock using a real O' clock). I let go of the ratchet and the Cam stayed in the same spot...It did not try to spring

4- I aligned the two lines on the belt with the timing mark on the Cam Pulleys and made sure they were still aligned with the timing marks on the engine

5- I aligned the double line (my belt had a double line instead of a dotted line) with the timing mark (NOT the TDC notch) that has a green dot of paint on the sprocket itself at roughly 9 O'clock 180 degree opposite of the TDC notch

6- I took a final look at all the marks and made sure everything was still aligned

7- I installed the tensioner, and checked all my marks again
8- I pulled the tensioner pin and made sure everything was still aligned

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Unfortunately after going through all this and replacing everything, I stilll have the noise coming from the engine. So it wasnt the tensioner or belt causing the issue :(

I have to assume I am SOL at this point. It must be a rod or bearing I guess. I will try to post up a youtube vid of it when I get a few minutes.

Thanks for your help Mile High.

Here is the video....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Egqx7emY61Q

Is there a way to determine if its definately a rod knocking?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gable74

Is there a way to determine if its definately a rod knocking?

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What about using an engine stethescope (or similar diagnostic technique) to narrow it down to which cylinder the ticking is coming from? Have you ever had your solid lifter shim clearances checked?

It sounds like (using a rubber hose as an ear piece) that its coming from the front passenger side. Can not narrow down whether its coming from down low (oil pan area) or not. It started making the sound after a long climb up a hill one day. I was hoping there was another weak point like the timing tensioner that I could test out prior to giving up on it.

This video certainly sounds similar to yours. It's not unheard of for a new part to be bad right off the shelf, so maybe you just got a bad rebuilt tensioner?....that is.....provided you remembered to pull the pin from the one you installed when you finally got all your timing marks lined up after 25 times. :bwgy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0H4_v14iQc

With timing cover partially removed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GA1NJ8DVm_U

With tensioner replaced. (Last 15 seconds of video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8CHNfEzskU

LOL...yes....I pulled the pin. The tensioner had plenty of force on the pulley so I am 99.9% certain that its good. What has me confused it that the sound is rapid like you would hear from a lifter even though this engine does not have lifters. In my experieince a rod knock is a deeper sound and less frequent. Just for giggles I am going to pull the serpantine belt this weekend and verify its in the engine and not an accessory.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gable74

LOL...yes....I pulled the pin. The tensioner had plenty of force on the pulley so I am 99.9% certain that its good. What has me confused it that the sound is rapid like you would hear from a lifter even though this engine does not have lifters. In my experieince a rod knock is a deeper sound and less frequent. Just for giggles I am going to pull the serpantine belt this weekend and verify its in the engine and not an accessory.

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Our engines do have lifters, but they are solid (not hydraulic) shim in bucket style lifters that have to be checked and adjusted from time to time.

Adjustments are done simply by measuring the clearances of the current shims, then replacing the current shim with another slightly thicker shim that has the correct additional thickness to take up any extra required clearance as measured.

It's the same type lifter setup found in many motorcycles.

Hard to say for sure though, since I also saw a Youtube video where the problem ended up being a valve cover gasket that was leaking, and I'd swear that noise sounded very similar to the one in your video.

It sounds like a blown exhaust gasket. It is easy to check before you do something expensive. Start it up and before it gets hot feel around the header to exhaust joint and the header to head gasket. Even at idle you should feel a slight puffing from the leak. Now you probably will not be able to get your hands everywhere so this is where your rubber hose comes into play. Do not stick the rubber hose in your ear or up your nose(welcome back cotter) but close. You should hear the sound when the rubber hose encounters the leak. The leak can be quite small so make sure you go all the way around the joints. If no leaks are found there, check further down the exhaust pipe.
From the video, it does not sound like a rod knock(actual rpm) as opposed to valve related(1/2 rpm). Yes exhaust leaks are 1/2 rpm.
Good luck
Mike