VX Out of Control on Snow....HELP!!!

Today was the 1st time I drove the VX on snow. I am extreemly careful when driving in wet weather. I was sitting at a stop sign waiting to make a rt turn. When it was clear for me to go, I started to make the rt turn. I was excellerating to no more than 3 mph & all of a sudden the VX almost made a complete 360. How could this be? The snow was about 1 or 1 1/2 inches on the ground. I still have the original 18" duelers w/ only 28k on them. I know I need new shoes , but they seemed to be ok for the amt of snow on the ground & for the low speed I was turning. I just missed hitting a passing car by inches( for sure I thought I was gonna hit the car, you know the feeling!) This is the Strangest thing that ever happened to me, & believe me when I say this because I used to be a maniac in my muscle & sports cars, & it never ever happened to me then! What if anything can be wrong, Im now scared to drive it in the light snow. Anybody.....?:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

I'm sorry but I think you need to work on your driving skills. I drive through snow 9 months out of the year and never had a problem. If you are scared of starting from a stop then start using the winter button and you shouldn't have any problems.

hey , my driving skills a better than average, remember I said it was the Strangest thing to have happen, If it were due to poor driving skills, I would'nt have mentioned it at all!

I have never had ANY problems in my VX. I was out this morning early. I actually get out as early as possible to get as much virgin road time as possible.

The roads this morning near my place were real slick, there was ice beneath the snow and was by far the slickest I've seen. Even with this the VX did awesome. I found the worse hill I could. There were 4x4 pickups (no weight in the back was their problem) that had to turn around. I went up, turned around, and back up at least 6 times and had a blast. The whole morning only saw 2 other vehicles make it up the hill.

Once I had to pull right off the road and actually up onto the sidewalk and nearly into someone's yard. 2 people were trying to turn around at nearly the same spot and a guy couldn't stop coming down the hill forcing me off the road to avoid collision damage. When I went to start again I couldn't get moving, even with winter mode.

I had to go into 4WD, which worked great and got me out of the deeper snow on the hill. That was probably the worse I've had and the VX did great. I just don't know what would have happened to you this morning. I have stock tires too.

Jay

Pic added to gallery before heading out this morning:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/sh...php?photo=3006

I've got about 8" inches of snow right now here in PA and the roads are not very clean. There is snow on every road. I floor the VX at every stop and slide sideways around turns on purpose, it's really hard for me to make the VX lose control, believe me I try real hard. When I came in to work this morning there was about 2 inches of snow in the parking lot, it took everything I could do to make the VX do 2 donuts on the snow. I'm running BFG All Terrains, so maybe the aggressive tire is stopping my fun. Sounds like the tires are causing your problem. Do like Alaska says and start out in winter mode.

Intersections are notorious for being slippery. warm tires compact snow and impress water into it. It's not the ice that's slippery, it's the thin film of water between the ice and your tires that make you slide. I've often been driving with no traction problems, but then come to and intersection and slide while stopping or starting off.

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Originally posted by Sheik-YurBooty
Today was the 1st time I drove the VX on snow. I am extreemly careful when driving in wet weather. I was sitting at a stop sign waiting to make a rt turn. When it was clear for me to go, I started to make the rt turn. I was excellerating to no more than 3 mph & all of a sudden the VX almost made a complete 360. How could this be? The snow was about 1 or 1 1/2 inches on the ground. I still have the original 18" duelers w/ only 28k on them. I know I need new shoes , but they seemed to be ok for the amt of snow on the ground & for the low speed I was turning. I just missed hitting a passing car by inches( for sure I thought I was gonna hit the car, you know the feeling!) This is the Strangest thing that ever happened to me, & believe me when I say this because I used to be a maniac in my muscle & sports cars, & it never ever happened to me then! What if anything can be wrong, Im now scared to drive it in the light snow. Anybody.....?:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

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I never had a problem on snow or ice, but then I've been driving for over 22 years. Ice has a way of being tricky regardless of how many wheels are powered. Tires are very important, and 28k is high mileage for a truck tire given most are only good for 40k if well taken care of. I know most of us push our tires, and unless you drive like Granny on Sunday and rotate every 5000 miles, your tires may not be ready for another winter. BTW I have seen way too many over confident yet inexperienced SUV drivers wreck on just about every snow day. High speed and ice don't mix on the road, that is unless you have a big plot of private land to do as you will :naughty:

The short answer is, sounds like your tires are done, replace them and drive your VX like it was meant to be driven :luck:

I would say it's the tires. You could have the best 4WD in the world but if you have bad/bald tires, good luck. I drive in the snow all the time and hated the stock tires, they're just ok in my book. Also remember, 4WD helps you get traction, but it is all the same when it comes to ice! 4WD = 4W SLIDE!

If you do a little research on snow, wet weather conditions and tires, you will find that the amount of snow on the road makes all the difference. When there is a fine powder, the roads are actually slicker than when there is a build up. At intersections, the warm tires melt the snow, as has been pointed out, and the water raises oils to the surface. If the oil has already been raised and run off, then the melted snow quickly reforms as ice. Tread only works if it can channel water away from the surface of the tire. If the snow isn't deep enough to get into the tread, just like water, it will not be channeled away. At any rate, with deep tread on my tires and a powder on the road, my VX started sliding from a standstill. I was stopped at a sign and the weight of the truck on the thin layer of ice/water/snow, pulled it down the incline. I gave it some gas and took control of the situation.

I have lived in New Mexico for enough years to have experienced every kind of snow there is, from blizzard conditions to light powder and it never failed that the majority of accidents occurred during the light snow. No matter how new your tires are, if the road is slick, only chains will make any difference. The roughest toughest tires on earth - unless they have built in spikes - can't do much on ice.

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Originally posted by VX_PA
When I came in to work this morning there was about 2 inches of snow in the parking lot, it took everything I could do to make the VX do 2 donuts on the snow.

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I actually managed to do 90 donuts in under 3 min. I need to get it on video so everyone can see how awesome this thing can spin! It spins so fast its like the gravitron. Just wanted to add that my mud tires tires are about 90% gone (about 1/8" traction) and with the TOD it handles wonderfully, even though they are probobally the worst tire possible (besides slicks) to have on in winter (11.5" wide ski's). However I am a very experienced winter driver and that is most likeley why I'm fine with it. The stock 18"s w/16,000 mi. did me well on the Alaska Highway driving it up, much better then the Mickey Thompsons anyway.

I have to blame this on driver error, it sounds like the stereo was up and you didn't hear your tires spinning then you hit a dry spot and it launched you into the street causing a 360.

I'd say it's the tires too. When I had my 18" Bridgestone dueler originals on, I remember quite vividly how easily the wheels can peel out, fishtail, and spin donuts in the snow. And it wasn't even that much snow either. It's a good way to practice your recovery turns when fishtailing in an empty lot. Best solution is to replace them with better equipped tires or use chains.

You can still safely drive with the duelers in snow. Just don't mash on the gas pedal from a stop and allow a greater distance while coming to a stop. Hope this helps.

It's definitely your tires. When I bought my VX I was not impressed with the winter handling because the stock tires are not that great in snow - at least in my experience. Nevertheless, I wore them down pretty well I just replaced them and I have almost 75K on my VX so they were definitely due. I just got Michelin Cross Terrain SUV tires and what difference good tires can make! I feel that my VX is glued to the road. It is also quieter now and the ride is a bit softer. We have only got some light snow and ice in North Mass but I am looking forward this weekend when we suppose to get some serious snow! My VX should handle snow much better.

Good thing that now when you are aware of the OEM tires capabilities you will be more careful. You can also always get a winter set and keep the Duelers for the rest of the year.

I took delivery of my VX on the 31 Jan 2000 and couple days later we had first snow in Boston. Was coming from work (yes decent system engineers were needed back then) around 9:30 pm and got almost killed on brand new Duellers. I was going no more then 25-27 mi/h coming to intersection - red light. No matter what I've attempted to do I was not able to stop. I am a reasonable driver and drove in almost any conditions (including unplowed roads of Russia - yes, they do not plow...) but here... VX was virtually uncontrollable ! Duellers (16 inch are awefull for snow !) Dry, rain or offroad they are reasonable, but snow forget it ! Narrow track+short base+ Duellers+snow= DISASTER !

Take care and get yourself reasonable shoes. I've got Toyo Proxses S/T - still have to figure out how they like snow.

Good luck !

I have got 32x11.5x17 super swampers with a whole lot of tread......one day I was not on ice or snow and it is only time this has ever happened....but, I was at a T intersecion and the light was red for me...when it turned green I turned left..not super fast or aggressive..but at reasonable spede same as the other cars...but I was first at the light, so even slower than them. When I got midway into the intersection..the VX's rear end shot out of control and it felt like the front pulled really hard left...and the rear end lost control.
The road was completely dry and lacked any sand or dirt...it was all smooth dry pavement... so is it a quirk for the VX that could happen here and there?

I was suspect about this post as well until almost the same thing happened to me tonight. I am going to call around about some BFG AT's tomorrow morning. Yes, I do know how to drive in the snow (my vehicle before the VX was a Jeep Wrangler which I've driven in many conditions).
The funny part was that the tires held ok on the highway, but were like skis on the unplowed roads of Pittsburgh.

Another questions though: What is up with the ABS? I pulled my fuse tonight because my ABS almost killed me about three times. When I pushed on the brakes at two stop signs, the ABS kicked in an "pulsed," but the pedal was about 1/2 down... it was almost like the ABS was "hypersensitive"... the problem was that the brakes were pulsing, but the vehicle was still moving. I think that my ABS is malfuncitoning and needs checked... what does it sounds like to you guys???

Joe

The ABS can freak out if you have a lot of snow caught up in the calipers. How deep is the unplowed snow you're playing in?

--John

It's funny that a discussion about Phantom Loss Of Traction (Spontaneous) shoud attract so many responses, in light of my recent encounter.

I remember about 2 months ago, someone posted on vmag about their family member who had phantom spontaneous loss of traction and possibly totalled their VX.

Could this be some kind of subversive Japaneese plot to wipe out the best and brightest in America?????????

More seriously, even the best drivers in the most well- equipped cars, in ideal conditions sometimes lose control. A cause is usually found if investigated , be it driver, mechanical and/or surface conditions.


If it's truly slick, your abs won't help. It all depends on having some traction. The abs starts pulsing the brakes when it senses that a wheel is locked.

Best advice:

Wear your seat belt

Drive alert and aware

Keep your Vx in shape.



Now a question, I don't know if it's a traditional debate, but I've heard arguments for both sides of the tire width vs. traction issue.
Can someone set the record straight? Which width and tread types are best for:

Dry

Wet

Snow

Mud

Rocks.



Finally,

How about a seasonal poll ?

Aside from the stock tires, which everyone seems to rate mediocre, has anyone tried 2 or more Different brands of snow-rated tires and how would you compare them or rate them against the stockers and eachother?

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Originally posted by joe-yamma

Another questions though: What is up with the ABS? I pulled my fuse tonight because my ABS almost killed me about three times. When I pushed on the brakes at two stop signs, the ABS kicked in an "pulsed," but the pedal was about 1/2 down... it was almost like the ABS was "hypersensitive"... the problem was that the brakes were pulsing, but the vehicle was still moving. I think that my ABS is malfuncitoning and needs checked... what does it sounds like to you guys???

Joe

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FYI
ABS is not made to help you stop but keep control. Plusing let the tires keep moving and it helps prevent you from sliding. Without ABS slamming on brakes could cause you to spin from side to side.

i dunno...you might have to polish up on your skillz with driving on SNOW.

we got a lot of snow around Rutgers University in New bRuns, NJ...and anyone who is around piscataway/Edison area knows they suck at plowing. I was just doing 50mph+ on roads wehre i couldnt see the black of the pavement and drifting corners...AND i run on ****ty tires that have barely any tread left...the only time i lost control was when i had to step on the brakes when i was going 20mph when some idiot decided to walk in front of my car and i did a 360 and never stopped..kept on driving on...pretty fun.

doing 360's and crazy ish like that shouldnt be scary at alll, it's extremely entertaining.

SNOW = BEST DRIVING CONDITION
im about to go out in 10 minutes again after i eat something 'cause that's when nobody's around and i can go as fast as i want weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

yah about ABS....it almost made me bump anotehr car in front of me. i was on a downhill at a stoplight...i stopped completely behind this one guy...then it turned green...the guy went i let go of my brakes...he stopped for some reason and i braked but kept on sliding...he was lucky my VX stopped in time 'cause if i had hit him, i think i would have gotten out and beat him int he middle of the street for driving a crap eclipse and being dumb.

ok IM OUT driving time BE SAFE everyone, watch out for people that suck at driving...and the POLICE

I wanna thank all you guys for your "IN DEPTH" responses. But just to get the record straight, Ive been driving in NY snow for over 25 years with no mishaps. And all those years it was only on rear wheel drive cars.Now what was strange is that with a 4wheel drive I almost got killed , and I was extreemly carefull when I started to turn after the stop sign. My foot was like a feather on the accelerator, & just like I said before, I wasnt going more than 3 mph when this lock up happened. Very Strange!!!!!Well anyway Im gonna get me some new winter shoes for the stock 18" rims....Which ones do I get? These will only be for the winter months, in the spring Im getting 20" wheels for the summer months. Im not cutting corners w/ my pocket either. I feel its very important to get Good Shoes for the VX . so in this case , I will pay the big bucks......Thanks again,,,Bruce

techincally if you were doing 3 mph... you where not driving a 4wd ... TOD does not kick in till 5 mph ? or is it 15? ...hmm ( help someone ? ) which at your slow speed would certainly make sence for the 360 .. being on not so good tires .. and a heavy 2 wheel rear drive vehicle ( theoritically ).


Just a thought ...

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[i]

Another questions though: What is up with the ABS? I pulled my fuse tonight because my ABS almost killed me about three times. When I pushed on the brakes at two stop signs, the ABS kicked in an "pulsed," but the pedal was about 1/2 down... it was almost like the ABS was "hypersensitive"... the problem was that the brakes were pulsing, but the vehicle was still moving. I think that my ABS is malfuncitoning and needs checked... what does it sounds like to you guys???

Joe [/B]

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Same story here !

Wow, sounds like a good headache...i for one am dying to get my vx anywhere near snow to have some fun. Anyone think we'll get 10+ inches down here in FL :rolleyes: Oh well we got mud....x

Yeah, I agree, those duelers are not that good in snow. But we have about 15 inches here right now and coming. I took a ride through the neighbourhood and I have to say my truck is pretty good. As far as stopping, you have to be very carefull. When we get storms as big as this one here, I see crazy moms overturn and skid off the road in their "SUV's" all the tme. Just called the Autozone, cables are $100 bucks, is it worth it?

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Originally posted by johnnyapollo
The ABS can freak out if you have a lot of snow caught up in the calipers. How deep is the unplowed snow you're playing in?--John

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John, the snow was only about 6"-8" at the time and while it was unplowed, there where ruts in it from other vehicles.
I took the VX around the neighborhood this morning and it seems to be doing a lot better. I don't know, maybe there was a bunch of ice or snow up in the calipers from the 20-mile highway part of my commute.
I will say that I do think that there is something wrong with my ABS and I will not have the fuse back in until after this snow has melted and/or I can get it into the shop to be checked. I will probably hold out until after x-mas to take it to the dealer, but I'll let you guys know what I find out.

Joe

PS - thanks to those who actually gave a thoughtful response.

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Originally posted by Andrey
Same story here !

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I would rather be in Orlando then in Boston right now :p

I WAS in Boston for T-day, but am back in Tampa, hee, hee. Started to snow so I pointed the VX south. Pulled up to another VX in Framingham, but could not get the driver's attention (lady).

Jon

Can someone please send some snow to Illinois?

Please ;)

A couple months ago, it was raining a bit and the roads were wet.

I was coming out of a parking lot and gunned the engine when the back end slid out from under me. I didn't spin, but it was close.

I was like WTF? Where'd my TOD go? So I dunno... seems like you just hit weird conditions that confuse the TOD sometimes.

Yikes! Not sure about all of this, but definitely needs looking into. I've steadily been pushing the VX's performance envelope a bit more and so far so good. I did have to get on the brakes real hard twice in about the past week, and both times the VX seemed like it wanted to pull a little to the left. This was not in snow or ice here in FL, of course, and I believe both times it was perfectly dry. My wife's van was pulling hard left on braking not long ago and had a lot of body roll - needed new rotors and the torsion bar was rusted bad and snapped (used to be up in Ohio).

Ive been driving my VX in the snow here in Utah for the last three winters and I tell you the stock tires are total crap. When I took my bridgestones off there were at least 2 patches in each tire and in the snow they were useless. I then switched to some Big O dual groove A/T's. They were a little better in the snow but not much. I'm now running on SnowTrakkers which are almost awesome.... almost. Now as for the snow I drive in, those last three winters I ran a ski shop in Park City (Deer Valley, Mid-Mountain). My commute was about 45 mins. in the snow, and the last part was climbing an average of 8-10" usually powder. My only gripe with the VX is that is does spontaneously lose traction at times. I have just randomly slid off the side of the road before...it happens. I think the VX would benefit from the ability to lock the diff. into a constant 50% power split front and rear. I think a solution to this problem has been found, im planning to do a little testing this weekend and will post more info with some results.

i believe that it is part tires and the fact that the rear is limited slip.when just one tire spins you have the other to keep you from going sideways ,when both tires spin they will slide sideways if you even touch the gas.i got around just fine on the stock 16" tires. shawn

I believe the VX does have the ability to lock the split 50/50 when you put it in 4 lo.

I am having a blast in the snow. Reported 24 inches here in Newton, MA. I just put it into 4 L and the VX bites into the snow. No mattwr how hard I try I cant get stuck. I do 360 on the snow in stead of doing the u turn. and I surprised a lot of people today like my neighbour getting stuck up the hill in his lexus rx300. Although I am still thinking about getting cables and driving in the park, over there it hasn't been plowed at all.

;Dy;

Last winter I made a u-turn and when I was stepping on the gas to go I started to go sideways and then all the way around. My incident was only a 180 and I wish it had been a 360 because I was staring into the oncoming headlights of about 50 cars. I quickly drove up onto the grassy median in the center of the street and let them pass. I had Yokohama summer tires which turned out to be a little slick in a Michigan winter. That's why I am looking for some Nittos for the winter this year.

Sounds more like issues with ice than with snow and there is not much you can do short of studs or chains on ice.

Just wanted to say that ABS brakes are not really designed for snow, more for dry pavement to prevent wheel hop. I know that I can stop in about 1/2 the distance if not using the ABS on snow/ice. The only good thing about ABS is that you can steer when your braking. In other words it helps out those drivers not used to the snow by letting them turn when they are all freaked out slamming the brake pedal down.

just for the record, pirelli scorpion zeros... don't buy em if you get a lotta snow........

Must admit, I miss not having my VX after this nasty storm. Made me sit in my house and mope all weekend long.

Having been in the snow with it before though, it handled great for me. Never had the need of low4, as the TOD just guided the VX clean through with no hangups. In all, the ONLY problem I had was teh tire usage. I dont run an A/T. I have street tires on there. But, as well as it did through snow with street tires, I can only imagine how GREAT it would be with an A/T or a good offroad tire. :)