MF! VX Kaput

Went for a haircut and she wouldn't start afterwards. Appears to be a fuel pump issue. I don't hear the pump at all and I pulled the line going to the filter and had someone crank her over - no joy. Fuse OK and I swapped the relay with the starter relay - nope. I jumpered out the relay connector pin according to the manual - negative. I am going to have a buddy tow me in the AM, I just hope it doesn't get towed in the meantime. I am considering cutting an access hole trough the rear floor, I saw that JPuga87's ride had this done but from the pictures it looks like the wrong spot. Thoughts?

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m...ads650/075.jpg
http://www.vehicross.info/forums/sho...8&postcount=19

You should be able to follow the wires to the top of the tank and feel by hand where it is from the rear and the side. Kind if eyeball the location from above and cut a small hole to get started. I need to do the same on mine as I carry an extra fuel pump on the trail. On the Planet, I am sure there is a thread about it there. Get yourself some silicone and some aluminum angle so you can make a new frame and voila, easy access to the fuel pump forever!

It's pretty easy to drop the fuel tank. Once the skid plate is off, it's 6 bolts to drop the tank and I remember mine dropped low enough to work on without disconnecting every line.

...but having an access flap would be pretty good for future repairs. I'll need to do the same thing because the gas tank lift required me to modify the mounts so I can't drop the tank.

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Originally Posted by Marlin

I need to do the same on mine as I carry an extra fuel pump on the trail.

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Good Call. I like carrying extra axle shafts and an alternator. Didn't think about a fuel pump but they do die suddenly and will leave you stranded. I'll probably add a spare fuel pump to my inventory before summer.

Well, good news all around. My VX didn't get towed over night and the parking lot I was in includes a CarToys. The guys there helped me push her a little closer and let me plug in an extension cord for my angle grinder. Since I have a '98 Trooper parts car I was able to cut it's floor board first as practice and measurement and to get a free replacement fuel pump. It also provided me with a patch piece for the access hole in the VX. The Trooper was much easier to cut but I was eventually able to get the VX done too. This hole makes it so easy to replace the fuel pump! Once replaced she started right up.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/FP_002.jpg

Not the cleanest cut but functional.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/FP_003.jpg

Interestingly the VX pump assembly is a little different than the Trooper. The pump voltage feed is hard wired at the VX pump and the Trooper has a connector at the pump. Both have another connector attached to the side of the tank. I used just the pump from the Trooper until I got my VX home and then switched over to the entire Trooper assembly. My original assembly had a bit of corrosion on it so there may be a tank swap with the Trooper in the future. You can tell this wasn't originally a Colorado car...

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/FP_005.jpg

Some RTV, self tapping screws, and the patch plate removed from the Trooper completed the job.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/FP_006.jpg

Glad you had a relatively easy fix.

Also glad you were able to get those pesky little phillips screws out without stripping/breaking them. Last time I had to replace a fuel pump, I wasn't so lucky.

check the pressure on the valve on the fuel rail on the top side of the manifold - if you have pressure its not the pump - i almost dropped my fuel tank to change it until i realized it was the starter - does it click when you turn the key?

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Originally Posted by evillecutter

check the pressure on the valve on the fuel rail on the top side of the manifold - if you have pressure its not the pump - i almost dropped my fuel tank to change it until i realized it was the starter - does it click when you turn the key?

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Thanks but...
You may want to have a cup of coffee and re-read this entire post. :bgwb:

sorry - 10-4 on the coffee

Nice job Scott.

Thanks for the pics, i'll use them to mark out my floor cut. :thumbup:

Good Thread... I had done this to my old Zu Amigo years ago. I have had this on my mod list for a couple years. Hopefully your thread will put some fire under me.
thanks

Glad your vx sat over night unharmed. Bet you didn't sleep so well....

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Originally Posted by VxSport

Glad your vx sat over night unharmed. Bet you didn't sleep so well....

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HaHa, no I did not!
Thanks,
Scott

do you remember the distance from the back door jam or where the seam is?

Billy, this should be easy since my rear is empty, we can measure from the end of the factory floor coating. I want to do this on mine as well, we can experiment with mine, then do the final on yours. :)

Went ahead and cut the plate in my truck. Cut it too small, had to take another piece out. I welded those back together. I ahve about an 1/8" of herculiner back there, so it was hot enough to be melted under the outer shell, just pushed it back into the weld groove with a chisel:) Never know it wasn't one piece from above. Billy is picking up some steel so we can make the brackets to hold the final plate in. I will seal it with RT and then touch up herculiner over it. I may pull all the what were once phillips head screws. They are rusted pretty much flat. Rather do it now than on the trail:(
Not a terribly hard project and will save LOTS of time if I need to swap the fuel pump one day.

Came out great! Never even know it was there except the 8 extra bolts heads, but I sunk them into the bedliner so they are pretty flush. This little project will turn a 10 hr beast of a day to get the cladding and tank do down and back up into a 1-2 hour pump swap. I am going to address the rusted out screws later. None of them even have a pattern left on top to put a screwdriver in. I am going to cut them off, rotate the entire assembly a 1/4 turn or so, drill new holes (4 or 5 instead of 8, I think 8 is way overkill) JBweld bolts from the inside of the tank. This will allow me to use nuts vice screws and not worry about corrosion as much. Save a ton of time in the future.

Take any pics Marlin?
How do you keep the shavings out of the tank when you drill the new holes? If you can get the original rusted screws out you could always replace them with stainless.

Not too worried about shavings in tank, can just put something underneath, or use a magnet to clean it up. Don't want to usr stainless, worried about galvanic corrosion. Can't get original screws out, they are that rusted. just gonna cut them off.

Here is a pic with the RTV dry, other than the bolts, you can hardly tell where it is. I have a can of bedliner to go over it to keep it quiet and secure.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/da...124323_885.jpg

All you need to do this job is an angle grinder or circular saw and the cutoff wheels, some self tapping screws, a few 1"x 1/4" nuts and bolts with lock washers, and about 18" of 1" wide 1/8" thick steel bar, RTV and paint to suit. The bars run fore to aft and are held in place by the 1/4" bolts. Very easy project to do.

sounds like the hole in the floor is just the trick. would really be helpful if someone doing it would take a picture and add some reference point and dimensions for where to cut the hole:)

Post #4 shows a pretty good shot of where it needs to be. It doesn't have to be very accurate and if you are using a patch from another vehicle you can start small and go bigger as needed.

IMO, this is the way to do it. It is "easy" to drop the tank I guess, but it is no fun especially if there is any fuel in the tank, etc. I am not fond of messing with gas. I am going to preemptively cut an access door in my Trooper for this reason. I am going to make it so 4 bolts hold it in and I can remove the door anytime I need to. A dead fuel pump would be BAD if you were out in the boonies.

Bart

Greetings one and all. Today I had a similar problem and suspect the fuel pump. Was backing into the driveway and my truck just stalled without warning. Before I attempt the hatch cure, I have a question for those who've done this. I had 3/4 of a tank of fuel just prior to the stall (cranks hard still but no ignition), but now the fuel gauge shows dead empty.
Things I've checked thus far: fuel filter-pulled from the truck and cleared. Flow is perfect.
Pump fuse is intact and functioning.
Added about 4 gallons via jerry can, no improvement.

Earlier in the day, I added another 4 gallons via jerry can from my fuel ration rotation so I could put fresh fuel in two cans, though it was treated with Sta-Bil. Gasoline was just under 4 months old. Sta-Bil wouldn't jack up any sensors, would it? Runs my emergency geni and mower just fine, but neither are EFI.

I'm on a sleepless binge while my ailing VX sits dead in the driveway, and I'd rather not empty out the savings for a costly repair if the tank hatch works. Any other input, fellas? I'd really appreciate a cut reference as to how far in from the tail gate you guys cut. Going from left to right, it looks like the hatch should be cut between the 6th and 8th ridge in the floor. Sound about right?

You say the filter flows fine so can you place a bucket under the filter with the tank side attached and the engine side in the bucket then turn the ignition to ON. This should run the fuel pump for two seconds. If you have flow then it's not the pump that's the problem. When I had my fuel pump fail the gauge was unaffected. Is the fuel pump relay working? You say the fuse is good but do you have 12V getting to the fuse? I looked at the schematic and the pump and gauge do not share a common circuit.

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Originally Posted by SuperBoomTurbo

Earlier in the day, I added another 4 gallons via jerry can from my fuel ration rotation so I could put fresh fuel in two cans, though it was treated with Sta-Bil. Gasoline was just under 4 months old. Sta-Bil wouldn't jack up any sensors, would it?

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I use Stabil all the time in my Jensen Healey, never had an issue. I thin it is just an additive to retard moisture build up

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Originally Posted by bartmanS4

You say the filter flows fine so can you place a bucket under the filter with the tank side attached and the engine side in the bucket then turn the ignition to ON. This should run the fuel pump for two seconds. If you have flow then it's not the pump that's the problem. When I had my fuel pump fail the gauge was unaffected. Is the fuel pump relay working? You say the fuse is good but do you have 12V getting to the fuse? I looked at the schematic and the pump and gauge do not share a common circuit.

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I haven't checked it with a multi-meter yet. Too cold to work on here today, and my computer is having issues too. That was a relatively easy fix though (PSU crapping out).
Anyway, next warm day I'll try the bucket, but at the moment, I'm not getting any kind of pump noise like usual (the click or whine in the tank) at all.
Believe me, I'd rather this be a circuit problem and not a pump problem! And I thank for you the ideas to check, too. Keep 'em coming!

Edit: The computer being the work/home PC inside and not the truck! =D Best to specify I guess.

I'e changed my mind on the electrical versus mechanical issue. Mechanical is way easier to diagnose and fix!!

Took a good run at the ol girl today, starting with fuse chasing, i.e. Checking everything in the cabin and under the hood. Nada. Did the 2 second fuel thing and got a few drops, but not consistently. One time I would, two others and nothing. Not sure what 2 seconds of fuel is supposed to look like, but I was pretty sure it was more than a few drops. I ended up cutting the access hatch and replacing the pump. Annnnnd.... nothing! Still cranks hard, no bang.
I found that the negative battery terminal clamp is pretty much maxed out on adjustment, so that's going to get replaced next.
I also tried swapping the pump relay with the horn relay and both worked fine (pre-hatch cutting) and checked all the wiring looms that were moderately exposed. Other than a coating of road grime, I didn't find any bare wires. I didn't bust out the multimeter, but I was reading last night that the PCM may have something to do with this? Anyone happen to know where its located, as its not labeled anywhere in the main or cabin fuse box.

Also while rooting around, I found some moisture on the driver side floor mat. Pulled that up and found a bit of the fuzzy white mold. Shiiiiiit. My vx has what I'm pretty sure isn't a factory moon roof, which has never worked particularly well since I've owned it. It has power and moves on the right days, but other times it won't budge. I'm thinking the weather stripping might be toast as I found some signs of dried moisture around a windshield pillars and down the door hinge areas, so I'm hoping that didn't drip down into the dash and short out a ____.

While in the tank, inside it looked immaculate as far as old gas tanks go, and much to my surprise, it was full to the very top of the pump assembly. That dead fuel gauge is still the prime culprit, just not sure where to go from here.

After weeks of chasing problems, checking wiring and fuses/relays, I finally decided to just replace all the fuses starting under the dash, cranking each time.
Lo and behold, after swapping the CB-3 15amp 'Engine' fuse, she fired right up!! Whoa!!
Well, it rained for a few days and I haven't driven it until today. Got to Oreillys and back and once again, it died pulling over the hump in the driveway. Same fuse. Guess that means there's a short somewhere?
I went and got one of the fancy 'glows if it blows' fuse packs to make this a bit easier. Replaced, revved the motor, pop!

So my question for anyone (I'm good on mechanical drawings but wiring diagrams confuse the hell out of me) Do you know where this wire runs around before coming into the dash fuse box?
I found one loom that Firestone had diverted after botching my power steering pump job (long, depressing story that THEY caused!) and that will be my first look-see. Currently I've tucked it under the radiator area and a convenient hardline, but it had been making the occasional 'takka takka takka' sound, so I'm betting that sucker is rubbed through.

Edit: In the case of the Firestone incident, if any of you are curious how Firestone works on the Vehicross, you can enjoy a fine bit of reading with my experience here:
http://www.bbb.org/fort-worth/busine...ints#breakdown
it's the first complaint on 11/20/2014. I don't put this up for attention but a consumer warning.