Printable View
I know at least a couple of people here have recently purchased spare headlight assemblies for modification. Has anyone opened one up yet? Looks like there are a lot of tabs holding the lens on, but before I start prying at it with a set of flat-head screwdrivers I was wondering if anyone had already done it and if there were any caveats.
THanks
Not sure exactly what they use to hold them on, or how they bind them, but it is probably tabs + heat or a type of glue = be careful or they will break!
I've read in one of the Japanese VX sites that they boiled the entire light assembly in, I'm assuming, water to separate the housing and the clear lens. Theoretically, the heat from the boiling water will soften the glue enough to separate the lens. Don't know for sure if it will work or not. But, I've ordered a single headlight assembly to try it out. I have a few ideas that I'd like to try out if I can successfully separate the parts. If you're willing try it out on your own lights, more power to you. But, if you're willing to hold out a little longer til I try it, I'll let you know whether the technique works out or not. I've already got the spare light enroute to my work address and should arrive sometime next week.
I can wait. I just ordered the iris I plan to implant, so it will be a while before I can actually do anything with an opened headlight. But, in the meantime if anyone else has already opened their's please post.
I've located several bi-xenon assemblies that are OEM to other makes and will probably end up using a good portion of the rear section to mount them. Haven't got my light yet, but just had the VX's nose apart re-gluing my headlight gaskets. Looks like we'll have a pretty straightforward time modding this one, depending on how creative each chooses to be. Maybe we can keep a thread going to share our ideas/findings?
Man, I would love to see something like the WRX projector headlight conversion...
http://store1.yimg.com/I/fastwrx_1761_1772412
http://www.optauto.com/store/images/OAS-HLWRX2.GIF
That's real close to what I have in mind for my conversion. I'm pretty confident that two bi-xenon assemblies will fit into each housing. My only issue is the possibility of having to mount SIX ballasts! One for each bi-xenon and the pair of Hella Micro DE running lights. Anyone know if there are multi-driver ballasts?
Why two bi-xenon per assembly?
On the hidforum.com a poster mentioned being very disappointed with the hella de xenons. Claimed the beam pattern was very poor and that glare was pretty bad, he claimed that the de halogens were much better in both departments.
Also on hidforum.com there was discussion of a ballast that runs at 35W and 50W, you could even switch while it was in use. Maybe that could be used at 50W to drive two lamps.
I am not sure if this helps but a lot of my WRX friends are putting there lights in the oven at 200 deg. preheated for 10-15 minutes to loosen the glue, and then prying them open.
Ron is correct.. boiling the light assembly in whater is what's been done in the import crowd. The heat softens the glue enough to allow you to pry the light housings open with greater ease.
If you want to put aftermarket lights in there, I'd recommend the Hella 90 mm projector lamps. www.rallylights.com has them. They're the same units used in the Saleen S7 and S7R endurance racer. Come in high and low beam units... bulb size is a bit odd, H9.
There may be a Hella HID version for either the high or low beam... can't remember which it is. Good luck.
I'm familiar with the Hella 90mm modules but the Hella website lists the HID version only in the low-beam. Do you have part numbers for the HID high-beam? The rallylights site only has the halogen 90mm modules.
You don't want HID in high beam configuration. Light towards white in the specturm has a tendency to scatter. High beam is suppose to be a spot light, you don't want it to scatter. The greater the distance, the more scattering of light you'll have. I'd keep the high beam in halogen.
I'm sorry but that's wrong. First, there is no "white" in the spectrum. There is, however, blue and that does tend to scatter more than red. HID's are perceived as being more blue than halogen's and their color temperature is generally somewhat higher (and thus bluer) than halogen, but not by that much. Halogen tends to have a color temp around 3200K and OEM HID is around 4200K (which is the average color temp of sunlight in the middle of a summer day on Earth, exactly what human eye is adapted to best see). However, the common perception that HID's are "blue" does not come from their 4200K color temp, but rather artifacts produced by the projector mechanism such that the edges of the light beam get a bluish, even purplish sparkle to them. That phenonmenon is the reason people think HIDs are "blue" and all the ricer madness to get higher color temp bulbs comes from that side-effect of HID projectors (not HID reflectors, just projector systems).
I bet that Hella does not have a high-beam HID lamp at all, the reason is that HIDs take a while to warm-up and achieve full brightness maybe even 20-30 seconds depending on the mechanism (although there are apparently some military-grade short-arc systems that do have a kind of instant ignition, these aren't used in either military or commercial headlights, only in spotlight systems, so far). While the common use of high-beams is to need the extra brightness RIGHT NOW, not 30 seconds down the road...
The common commercial implementation of HID high-beams is to shift the shield in the projector to open up the vertical aperature in the projector by a few degrees (or at least shift it upwards by a few degrees, depending on the implementation). So that there is no ignition required, you are just changing the beam pattern of the currently ignited bulb. These are usually called bi-xenon systems.
From what I have been able to learn, going with the Hella 90mm system buys a nice heavy-duty projector with all of the appropriate pieces made "to last." But, if you go with an OEM system (like from a BMW or Audi or Lexus) then you often get a projector that works just as good, if not better, but the surrounding hardware is optimized for the specific car that it was designed to go into and as such may have lower design tolerances because the rest of the headlight assembly is expected to compensate. So, if you go with OEM headlights you may find that you have to custom build other parts like the shroud or mounting gear in order to make it work reliably. But the benefit is that you can get smaller lights and better performing lights than the Hella commercial parts.
For what it is worth, I'm looking for a small bi-xenon setup myself. Today I saw a bunch of 350Zs (driving by a dealer) and noticed that they have teeny-tiny projectors, probably less than 50mm, but I haven't been able to tell if it is bi-xenon. Apparently the bi-xenon's off the previous design bwm 740 series are highly prized for looking good and for being relatively small, althought I'm sure they don't come anywhere near the lens size of the 350z's.
Along with hidforum.com which is primarily interested in retrofiting cards, here is a good forum dealing with HIDs, they can get real technical - often far beyond hidforum.com's level and car headlights is not their focus, rather more into handheld spots and floods:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubb...at=&Board=UBB7
they also have other forums for other types of lights, including halogen and LEDs.
You're right. I'm wrong. What I wrote was based on hazy recollections of a very long report I read some 4 years ago. Can't really flash to pass with HID highbeams since, as you said, they take a while to warm up. Most cars in the European market have halogen high beams not HID.
The easier thing to do would be to run a hi/lo H4 retrofit kit. Although small compound lights would definitly look more up-to-date.
Just an update...
I managed to disassemble the entire spare headlight housing successfully without breaking any tabs and what not. Basically used a large steel bowl and submersed 1/2 the entire light housing while bringing the water to a boil. Took about 15-20 minutes before water starts showing signs of tiny boiling. Mean time I take a flat-head screwdriver and pry between the seems where the poly lens and the shell are joined. There is a gum-like glue that gets soft when the water is pretty hot. I let one 1/2 remain submerged and about 15 minutes I rotate the other 1/2 under the boiling water. Again, I pry with a screwdriver around the seams and you can see that the glue starts to soften. I upward til I can't go any higher with the tool. So, I use a spoon which helps pry it higher. The lens slowly pulls away and you work yourself all around, while keeping 1/2 the light under the water. The lens will start to pull away as the glue is softened. Here's some pics:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/371.jpg
Showing how the lens is removed.
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/372.jpg
Here's the break down of the assembly.
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/373.jpg
I can imagine anyone wanting to paint this part to match their VX.
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/374.jpg
Here's a couple of possible areas to install a projector light. Anywhere else, there isn't too much room.
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/375.jpg
Another view of the entire assembly.
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/376.jpg
WyrreJ> I'm sorry but that's wrong. First, there is no "white" in the spectrum. There is, however, blue and that does tend to scatter more than red. HID's are perceived as being more blue than halogen's and their color temperature is generally somewhat higher (and thus bluer) than halogen, but not by that much. Halogen tends to have a color temp around 3200K and OEM HID is around 4200K (which is the average color temp of sunlight in the middle of a summer day on Earth, exactly what human eye is adapted to best see). However, the common perception that HID's are "blue" does not come from their 4200K color temp, but rather artifacts produced by the projector mechanism such that the edges of the light beam get a bluish, even purplish sparkle to them. That phenonmenon is the reason people think HIDs are "blue" and all the ricer madness to get higher color temp bulbs comes from that side-effect of HID projectors (not HID reflectors, just projector systems).
Wow.. I am usually arguing with folks on the NISSAN forums, many people send to be pretty misinformed when it comes to lighting. For once, I can honestly say that I agree with this guy. :)
Its good to see more knowledgeable lighting people sharing good information.
- Mike / ClearCorners.Com
could i boil the fake fog (parkin) light assembly to remove the plastic lense from the parking light housing? As is mentioned earlier in this thread.
Im moding/switchin the parking lights to fog lights but i want to somehow retian the stock lenses....x
-x-, not sure if you can or not. But if your looking simply for a bulb that is alot brighter and wont melt the lense or assembly you might try the piaa w2, part number 19224, it works really well with the sylvania silverstar's I have in mine. The w2 has a little hint of blue, but they match the silverstar's really well compared to the dull orangish/yellow stock bulbs. Its pretty simple to replace the bulb, although you do have to have medium to small sized hands to do it without taking the front cladding off. This ofcourse wont get you your fogs, but I was just going for bulbs that actually looked good compared to stock.
Omega - where did you buy those PIAA bulbs?
-x- Unless I am totally lost, you are talking about the white round lights in the cladding on the front right? You can unscrew the lenses by hand without anything special. I'm pretty sure that's what I did when I upgraded to the home depot daytona 18w bulbs.
Posted this in the Dec 6, Toys for tots meet post (http://www.vehicross.info/forums/sho...5&pagenumber=3), but here it is again. BTW, if you check out the meet thread, you will find a pic I posted comparing the stock bulbs to my new ones.
Quote:
PIAA W2 - replaces parking lights, part number 19224
PIAA T-6 - replaces dome light, part number 19223
PIAA reference - http://www.piaa.com/Bulbs/Bulbs-Miniature.html
Place I bought them - http://www.lightningmotorsports.com/piaa_bulbs.htm
My head lights are the Sylvania SilverStar's 9003ST, I ended up just buying these at the local auto parts store. They had a buy 1 get 1 at 1/2 price so I jumped at it, saved about $9.00 and didn't have to pay shipping.
Sylvania Reference - http://www.sylvania.com/auto/silverstar.htm
Omega's piaa w-2s really look close to hid color and are pretty bright for being rated at 18 watts. I haven't seen anything comparable. They really wake up the so-called driving/fog lights.
FYI- The housing comes out of the cladding with a 1/8 th turn. Not sure if boilng would help you separate the lens from housing. Even if you could, the stock housing has a low wattage rating and using a 50 watt fog or driving light behind a factory lens will probably melt that "nissan" lens.
I second that - a 30w strobe bulb was in mine for awhile and melted the lens - no way will it ever support a larger lamp that is on for extended periods. Someone found a low cost fog lamp that fits it fine - I love having the the PIAA 1200s there as they look great on or off.
I agree, I wasn't able to find any other bulb that would replace the parking light, keep the wattage below 27 (stock wattage) and still look bright enough to have the HID look and match the brightness of the silverstar's. Even though they are only 18w bulbs, they seem to give off alot more light then stock. If you want to go for fogs, then I'd just replace the entire assembly with moncha's instructions (http://www.vehicross.info/forums/sho...&threadid=1184), personally I plan on adding the Piaa P-3000 so I wanted a parking light that would match the look of the rest of my lights.
Alright Omega, lets talk about this... Eventually you want to get the Piaa P-3000.... What and why? I searched on the Pia site for it and found it. I think it looks sweet. It goes below the "Fog" lights where the turn signals are now? So my question is, do you have to run all new wiring to get it working? It said you need to following:
Available In Plasma Ion Driving, Xtreme White Spot, and Super White Marker
Bulb Type 12V - H3 55watt=110watt Xtreme White spot, and 12V - 168 5watt Super White marker
Features Black aluminum housing, glass lens, and triple beam system
Kit Includes Two lamps, wiring harness, relay, and switch
Does that mean that everything is in the box? If so, I wouldn't mind giving it a try.... But I am afraid to say I am not the greatest in electrical stuff, so I hope I don't screw everythign up. I was real nervous I would screw up the other Piaa stuff I installed, but it turned out great, and took all of 3 minutes to do it!!! Well, 5 minutes including opening up the box....
Lastly, it is available in three types, Plasma Ion, Xtreme Whte, and Super white marker, how do you know which one matches the Sylvannia lights? Will this help when wheelin at night, cause I don't know if I want the safari bar with floodlights yet... may be a bit extreme cause the VX is my main vehicle and I still make payments, so I won't be dong anything aggressive for a few more years....
Sorry NC_VX, I totally missed this until today. To answer your question, the kit does contain everything you need to perform the install (except maybe some bolts/nuts for a more "secure" mounting). Other then that it is pretty simple to get wired up and going. It took me about 4 to 5 hours to mount, test and wire. It probably took me longer cause I kept double checking the wiring at each stage of the install just to make sure they still worked :) I also spent alot of time trying to tie and hide my wires as much as possible.
The main reasons I chose the piaa p-3000's were because they look so good in our front bumper openings and they add alot of functionality without having huge floods sitting off a front safari bar.
The reason I used the W2's in my stock parking lights is because they match the p-3000 marker lights almost perfectly. So, when you wire the marker lights to your parking lights and just turn your stock parking light "knob" on, you then have 2 markers on your piaa's on as well as your stock parking lights. The minor difference in coloration is in the fact that the piaa lenses are completely clear while the stock parking lights have a pattern to them.
The reason I went with the silvania silverstar's for my headlight bulbs is when you switch your lights on, then turn the xtreme white spot's on your piaa's on they match almost perfectly.
So, if you use the setup I used you then have 4 "marker" lights with a hint of blue and 4 very bright white driving lights with no real hint of blue. Plus you have the extra plasma ion driving lights which somewhat match your stock horn bulbs, ok not really that close, which makes 4 "ion" yellow bulbs.
To be honest I just got done installing them, so I havn't completely tested yet. I'm not sure which ones you should use at which times, but I'll figure it out over time.
Thanks for the information. that has shed some addition light "no pun intended" on my goal for the front end overhaul...
I have the W-2's, the silverstars, and a blue bulb in the place of the old yellow fang bulbs. I also installed the VX Concept clear turn signals and ClearCorners clear side markers. With the yellow being in the P-3000s, I don't know if I will like that look. I am interested in StinkFab's new push bar and possible another one that I saw pictured that wraps around the front cladding really nicely... I may put some Piaa Rally lights on instead, I don't want to go overkill on the night lights, but there are a lot of small roads/hwys in NC that I ride on every night and I want the max amount of viewing so I can avoid the deer... The Silverstars make a huge difference, and from the diagram of the P3000, that additional viewing angle will help....
I am waiting to see how thinks with StinkFab turn out.... I want to see his push bar before I make a decision, the other thing is that the way the bar is positioned it may cover the P3000s or a front winch mount I want to hook up....
ANyway, I will let you know!
I tested the plasma ion driving lights out tonight and they make a big difference. I think the combination of yellow light and the silverstar light together helps to eliminate a much greater amount of the road. It actually helps split up the visible light with the plasma making the close portions of the road much clearer and the silverstar's making the farther portions of the road clearer with the light contrast. I'm not sure what it looks like from the outside driving down the road. But from the driver seat, I definatlly like the amount of light it provides.
Now I just have to adjust them so they point in the correct locations. I currently have one pointed alittle high and the other pointed alittle low.
Well, I think I will wait until April to install... Working on my paint first!
Good luck getting them correctly aligned, a pic or two posted would be ncie!!!
So is using boiling water and slowly prying the headlight apart as the glue softens the only way to get our headlights apart? It is shown this way on page 1 of this thread, but I seem to remember someone using their oven and baking the headlights to soften the glue, maybe someone who installed projectors I believe?..... Anyone else open up their headlight housings?
On my Honda it was use the over at 200 degrees for about 10 minutes...but you must watch it closely to avoid any unwanted issues. If you mess it up it will cost you. A replacement assembly for the Honda is only $90 and if it gets messed up not a big issue, just annoying. If you mess up the VX one it will cost you double that easy. Be Careful if you decide that you must take them apart.Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleBeast
Also seach the net for other options as there are tons of informative videos on youtube and such.
Why in the name of all that's holy would you want to do this?
Bart
You need to heat the glue to loosen it. It can be done by boiling water or putting in the oven. However if you boil you get a much better even slow increase heat. In the oven even when you set a particular temp the oven cycles (notice the red light going on and off) in addition the racks will get hot and stay hot possiblibly giving a burn mark on your assembly oe even a melt mark on the lense if the plastic hits the rack.Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleBeast
I have split head lights off my mini cooper with the oven before. It was very easy for me, I just took them out every 5 min ( with gloves on) and pulled until the glue was soft enough.
Again, what is the purpose of this???
Bart
I did it so I could paint the inside of the headlight black rather than the silver, and I also painted the ring around the projector red. It really tied in the whole red on black car theme.
http://www.v-leds.com/Exterior-HID-H...-p9377715.html
And the projectors will be HID of course ($200 for all in 1 package), and while I have them open I will paint everything black (ebony) to match the VX :-)
http://a763.g.akamai.net/7/763/1644/...p/VPID/9377715
V-LEDS quote: "This kit is actually really easy, (*after you bake apart the headlights*) No modification to the headlight assembly is necessary as the projector unit mounts through the original bulb opening. It is a pretty slick design, and you can still aim the headlamps using the original adjustment screws!"
Done it a handful of times. Bake it between 200-225, and be VERY mindful of it. It can take quite a while too since prying a bit at a time might need to be done.
Sealing them back up is always the tricky part. You don't seal it well and you will have foggy lenses.
Ahhh, I see, I'd like to see pictures of this. I thought you guys were trying to fix something.
Bart
I don't have any pictures of my mini, but here are some of the pictures that are close to what I did.
http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/z.../blackmini.jpg
http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/z...i/bluemini.jpg