HD Torsion Bars: Independent4x.com

Hi all!

The Heavy Duty VX Torsion Bars are now available again in limited quantity at Independent4x.com!
https://www.independent4x.com/mercha...products_id=86

They have 10 sets left!
(as of 6/22/2012 - 11:45am Pacific time).

I've been on the waiting list since Dec. 2011...
Mine shipped out on Tuesday and should be here early next week!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm so stoked! :clap:

From what I've heard from multiple sources, these are total experience changers for the VX. (up there with mods like the 5-speed swap, V8 swap, etc...) :)
Granted.. they are a little expensive (paid ~$500, shipped to Las Vegas).

GO GET EM!!!
:jump:
---JIM---

Forgive my ignorance but whats the purpose of them? The vx already has stiff suspension and its not like your going to bend the factory torsion bars. So whats the goal of the upgrade?

x2..

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Originally Posted by pbkid

Forgive my ignorance but whats the purpose of them? The vx already has stiff suspension and its not like your going to bend the factory torsion bars. So whats the goal of the upgrade?

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I'm intrigued!

Jo

(Others that have used them, please chime in too...)

From what I understand, especially on VX's that have "springy" suspensions, they really firm them up, and give a much more controlled ride/feel.

Analogy: like upgrading from a minivan to a Chevy 3500.
(+ or -)

They are great for lifted VXs as well.

Here is a link to my previous thread discussing them:

http://vehicross.info/forums/showthr...ght=hd+torsion

My motivation for buying them:

The rear of mine is really stiff with the OME 919 springs. But the fronts are so cranked (to match the rear height) that when I hit a bump (like a speed bump), the un-sprung force really slaps hard when it springs... I have to be careful... It's more embarrassing than anything.
I want to match the feel of the rear to the front.

Also, I want upgraded fronts for when I swap to V8.

More info:
http://www.vehicross.info/forums/sho...2&postcount=50

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I installed a set on my race VX yesterday. Very interested to see how much suspension improvement I get out of them. They are VERY beefy bars.

Awesome! Let me know how you like them!

Thread jack..:eek:

Hey Silver B..you have a PM from days ago.

Let me know!

And now back to your regular sch:thumbup :eduling

Jo

oh ok i see. that makes sense, except in your case silver. When you hit a speed bump, that 'slapping' your hearing is probably your shocks being maxed out and bottoming out, isnt it?

Stiffer torsion bars are just going to make it slap more often, isnt it?

I guess it would help a lot to ride in a VX before and after to understand.

I'm not trying to hate on your thread or upgrade, i just want to understand why they are worth $500? I mean, generally on a VX, if you are really cranked up for a big lift, your shocls are going to be your limiting point on your front end, not how far the spring will push the a-arms, right?

Maybe I'm just not describing the "slapping" very well... I'm really not sure HOW to describe it.

Ok, here's another crazy analogy for you:

Remember when we were kids and we used to have "pencil fights"?
One person would pull back tension on a standard #2 pencil, trying to break the opponent's #2 pencil.
You'd have to pull it back with a lot of, and just the right amount of force, so that it would push through the opponent's pencil sharply and quickly... with a "slap".

Now, there was always that one kid that had that one "SPECIAL" pencil... the 1/2" thick pencil he won at the arcade with a bunch of tickets from skee-ball.

When this pencil was pulled back, there was very little bend, a lot more downward thrust, and a much heavier hit.

So, the #2 pencil aggressor = my 14-cranked stock torsion bars.
The 1/2" pencil = the HD torsion bars.
The opponent = the road.

Wow... I come up with the craziest analogies. LOL

I think more torsion strength means slower response time. So...you get the bump impulse a bit later upon impact???? Is this good? Don't know, but possibly more cushy ride? (Emulating if you will.... a heavier longer wheel base ride vehicle?) Have to puzzle this out?

Think of it as putting a higher rate spring in a sports car. It takes more weight or impact to compress the spring than a standard spring, there by increasing vehicle control by reducing roll, dive, and bounce. When we crank our torsion bars, we are taking them out of their normal range and they don't react the same as at stock ride height due in part to the new higher center of gravity creating a sensation of being undersprung. The HD torsion bars counteract this by making it harder to compress, or bend in the case of torsion bars, the springs when hitting a bump or making a turn. Putting HD torsion bars and equally stiff rear springs on a non lifted, stock VX would cause a very stiff and uncomfortable ride.

I could elaborate further, but that's the gist of it.

Update: I've been adjusting and tuning my new torsion bars over the past couple days and am very happy with the end result. You have to keep cranking on them to get the spring out of the front end. I am not sure I would intall them if you haven't lifter your truck. I have OME 919 springs on the back which gives me a wheel opening measurement (with 33s) of 38 1/2 inches. With the bars ajusted up front I measure an even 38". I am getting excited to see how it will perform for the next race, looks like there is goint to be a LOT of air time in this one.

Installed mine this morning in about 1.5 hours! Cleaning the stock parts was the biggest time taker. Easy job...
So far I love them... Only have about 1 mile of use on them though. :)

Buffy, I have the exact setup you have, lift-wise and height measurement-wise. I see now what you mean about needing to take out the springiness.
How did you do so? Are you talking about re-indexing?

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Originally Posted by RabidPony

The HD torsion bars counteract this by making it harder to compress, or bend in the case of torsion bars,

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FWIW, the torsion bars don't bend, they twist. The spring rate comes from the actual twisting of the steel. That is why when we reindex them, we change how much "pretwist" we put on them, which if you are still stock, when you adjust the ride height by cranking the bolts, you are actually just twisting them a bit more, and that torsion is transferred to the front suspension and tries to push the tire down, in effect lifting the front end up:) Hence the loss of downtravel in the front suspension. We use that potential down travel to lift the front end higher.

What I really want are new rear lower links so I can get rid of my forward rake on the rear axle:(

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Originally Posted by Marlin

FWIW, the torsion bars don't bend, they twist. The spring rate comes from the actual twisting of the steel. That is why when we reindex them, we change how much "pretwist" we put on them, which if you are still stock, when you adjust the ride height by cranking the bolts, you are actually just twisting them a bit more, and that torsion is transferred to the front suspension and tries to push the tire down, in effect lifting the front end up:) Hence the loss of downtravel in the front suspension. We use that potential down travel to lift the front end higher.

What I really want are new rear lower links so I can get rid of my forward rake on the rear axle:(

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Thanks for correcting that. Not sure what I was thinking when I typed it. :bgwb:

More updates:
I ended up lowering the front by an inch... WORLD of difference.

ABSOLUTELY LOVE THE RIDE OF THE HD TORSION BARS.

I went over a bunch of speed bumps today at maybe 8 mph... fump fump.
Not: BanG! Slam!

Lowering meant a little more cladding "adjustments"... but no biggie (33 in. tires)

My CV shaft angles are now horizontal, with the help of Joe Darlinton's 2 inch diff drops, and the 1 in. lowering.

It now has 38.5 rear height, and 37.5 front. (Ground to top of fender/wheel arch)

Stiffer torsion bars will help control the momentum of larger heavier tires on bumps and such.

I just received a set for my Trooper, in part to help carry the weight of the winch I'm about to install.

Just did my first freeway drive with the new torsion bars...

OMG... they are incredible. Every issue I had since I lifted is now fixed.
No more bump steer, very little nose-dive on braking, BETTER braking, floats over bumps instead of slamming, and it feels like a solid TRUCK now.
I've considered going back to stock height due to the previous ride-experience issues.... NOT ANY MORE!

Some may say that $500 is a lot to spend for these... I say, if you are lifted, this is THE best investment you can make for the comfort and control of your VX.

BigSwede and Buffy,
Please post your post-install experiences as well!
I'd love to hear your thoughts.

---JIM---

I will report back next week on how the bars did. I have my next race this Saturday at Durhamtown Offroad park in Union Point, GA. This will be a very fast track from what I hear as part of the course is a trophy truck track with lots of jumps, steep descents, climbs, etc. Being this is just my second race I am shooting to finish before time expires and not break the truck. I now have a full roll cage installed, nothing like a little metal courage!! :smilewink

Thinking of buyimg these to carry the weight of a winch/heavier bumper. My issue is the

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it feels like a solid TRUCK now.

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from silverbullet.

One thing I actually miss from the VX before my 912 OME and torsion bar crank was that it drove like a CAR, handled better than an SUV. Less body roll (i don't miss how hard it was over bumpsm, though). So by "truck" do you mean it's a lot more vague, floaty, barge-like? More like an F150...or back more toward like a WRX? Because vague and floaty, that's what trucks drive like, and if that's what these HD Torsion Bars do, I may not want that... I get that it's "better". But by what standard? I don't know if it'll be worth $500. Any more cool adjectives for the difference in the VX post-indy4x torsion bars? THanks.

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Originally Posted by spaceCADETzoom

Thinking of buyimg these to carry the weight of a winch/heavier bumper. My issue is the from silverbullet.

One thing I actually miss from the VX before my 912 OME and torsion bar crank was that it drove like a CAR, handled better than an SUV. Less body roll (i don't miss how hard it was over bumpsm, though). So by "truck" do you mean it's a lot more vague, floaty, barge-like? More like an F150...or back more toward like a WRX? Because vague and floaty, that's what trucks drive like, and if that's what these HD Torsion Bars do, I may not want that... I get that it's "better". But by what standard? I don't know if it'll be worth $500. Any more cool adjectives for the difference in the VX post-indy4x torsion bars? THanks.

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What he said ^. I'm waiting for my 913's to arrive. I hope they decrease the body-roll . I'm looking forward to the drop as-well.

I was thinking of getting 913s too. Not really sure I need that extra height in the back; even though I cranked the torsion bars some, I've got a larger rake than I did stock.

You are totally right about the adjectives... LOL. It's too hard to describe the feeling. I wish you could come drive my VX and make your decision that way. I will say, I agree with Buffy... I don't think it would be good for a stock height VX. It handles the larger tires and lift very well though. The only thing I want to add is a new set of Rancho shocks (adjustable). My stock shocks are a little worn out.

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Originally Posted by SilverBullet75

You are totally right about the adjectives... LOL. It's too hard to describe the feeling. I wish you could come drive my VX and make your decision that way. I will say, I agree with Buffy... I don't think it would be good for a stock height VX. It handles the larger tires and lift very well though. The only thing I want to add is a new set of Rancho shocks (adjustable). My stock shocks are a little worn out.

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I might have to get a set. I notice that the IFS doesn't handle to weight of 35s well and especially over bumps. I've been riding a lower tire PSI to make it more tolerable for my daily commute. I always thought the HD torsion bars would make it worse but it seems you had the opposite results...

Silver Bullet, I lowered my VX (took out the 2" spring spacers from Indy4x) by going back to just the OME 912's and I have the diff dropped as well, so the CV's are horizontal, and now with the 35" tires my ground to top wheel arch is a perfect 39" at every corner.

VXorado, after driving the VX with the 35's for less than a full day now I think I agree with too much nose dive while braking and cornering etc, so these HD torsion bars may be next on my purchase list now :-)

Thanks for all the input please keep updating us :-)

Something that just keyed in my mind is that it is very similar in feel to the 919s. So imagine 919s up front.

So I'm a new vx owner and wanting to do a lift on mine. but seeing all the different springs has the question what kind of difference would i see from the ome 912's which come with most lift kits from independent4x.com vs. getting parts separately and going with the 913's or 919's. i'm only going for a little lift. currently have mickey thompson baja stz tires (265/75R16) which give a decent lift. just want a little more suspension travel when offroading.

Hi PJ.....

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Originally Posted by princejazzbo

So I'm a new vx owner and wanting to do a lift on mine. but seeing all the different springs has the question what kind of difference would i see from the ome 912's which come with most lift kits from independent4x.com vs. getting parts separately and going with the 913's or 919's. i'm only going for a little lift. currently have mickey thompson baja stz tires (265/75R16) which give a decent lift. just want a little more suspension travel when offroading.

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...if you work through this thread :-

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=15476

...you should get all the answers you need.

If not..Holler!

Jo

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Originally Posted by JoFotoz

Hi PJ.....



...if you work through this thread :-

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=15476

...you should get all the answers you need.

If not..Holler!

Jo

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Thanks, so after reading, i think i like the 919's, since i want the lift but didn't want the spring spacers. with rancho 9000xl shocks. still debating the hd torsion bars though.

The 919s give a pretty big lift compared to the 912s. Also, 919 is firmer than 912.

I'm surprised at your choice of 919's , unless you carry heavy loads.

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Originally Posted by princejazzbo

Thanks, so after reading, I think I like the 919's, since I want the lift but didn't want the spring spacers. with rancho 9000xl shocks. still debating the hd torsion bars though.

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You said in an earlier post you only wanted a little lift, and you'll get about 2 inches with the 913's.
IMO a good match for the tire combo youre thinking of.

No need to buy lift kits.
Fit new coils and crank the T bars to lift front to your desired rake/or level.

Also...IMO you should drive it a bit first before getting HD T bars...
...you're not going really high, or loading lots of rubber on the rims like 35's do.

GLTY..........:_steering

Jo

I ordered the Indy4x torsion bars this morning - over the phone to get a better understanding what to expect. I'm optimistic from this thread, as well as what Matt at Indy told me.

FYI, I'm set up on OME 913s, with a stock torsion crank pretty much maxed out in the front. Currently on OEM shocks, getting swapped with Rancho 9000XLs in the coming days. Will post my subjective findings when all's said and done.

Also, he said they have "plenty" left in stock. Not sure how many plenty is though.

-V

Law,

I thought about the HD Torsion bar install on my drive home last night (Hey, it's over an hour drive - I have no control over what goes through the grey matter when I'm vegin' out:)).

We could install them during our meet ... but ... you'll need a front end alignment after so I think you'd be better off to get'r done when you aren't facing a 2 hour drive home. Thoughts???

Tom

Tom, I agree. Aside from needing the alignment, it would make for a difficult journey home on the off chance something goes wrong during the install. I'll get them done here beforehand.

-V

Also keep in mind that total VX install time = 2 x how long you think it will take.

Right Tom? ;)

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Originally Posted by vt_maverick

Also keep in mind that total VX install time = 2 x how long you think it will take.

Right Tom? ;)

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I have no response to that.

C'mere & hold this skid plate in place whilst I reposition the jack:):):)

Dang, just 2x? You guys work faaast!

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Originally Posted by tom4bren

I have no response to that.

C'mere & hold this skid plate in place whilst I reposition the jack:):):)

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Lol... here hold this bumper cladding while I hack away at it with a razor blade. ;)

Just remember there is a left and right bar, so don't get that confused. The hardest part will be getting the rear tensioner (or whatever you call it) off the stock bar, at least that has been my experience. After that it is indexing the bar, setting ride height and enjoying!