Alias Electric Sports Car

While it's on my mind.... Even though I will ALWAYS keep the VX (I was just telling someone that it will be in my Will to be handed down), but I have to look forward. Without going on a rant, I think it's a good bet that having transportation that doesn't rely on fossil fuels would be a good one. I have been looking at AND have been highly considering depositing money down on an Alias:

http://www.zapworld.com/zap-alias-electric-car

Has anyone else looked at these with some type of intent to purchase? With tax incentives, one can be had for about $30k, yeah a bit expensive but when you consider ALL of the maintenance that is now out the window, it sure doesn't look bad...

Just asking if anyone has looked at this OR if anyone is really considering a purchase of a fully electric car any time soon?

but a $30,000 ugly 3 wheel motorcycle with a 3 year limited warranty that only carries 3 passengers (without cargo space) and a 100 mile range (max as we all have heard ranges can suffer dramatically if you do things like go up hill exceed 25 miles an hour or have to stop at those pesky stop signs and lights) Frankly not even interested enough to look at one.

I think you would be significantly better off with a Chevy Volt.

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Originally Posted by Osteomata

I think you would be significantly better off with a Chevy Volt.

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^^^^^^

+ 1


.... Or a tesla model x :) :) :) :)

Have you heard about the cover up stories of the Volt? Chevy has paid a number of owners to NOT talk about the Volt's issues.

And if you are plugging in, how much are you now spending on electric?

Where does electricity come from? Purely hydro electric? Or..wait....

Range is an issue for me as a DD. My commute is 45 miles each way in heavy traffic. It'd be too risky for me to go pure 'lectric till they increase the range to 150-200 miles.

Don't make any sense to me at all .... need to charge it up... and where does that come from? ...A Power station that pollutes just as much as an automobile. Where's the gain? :confused: Sorry if I'm missing something... and yeah that electric tricycle is hideous... wouldn't be seen dead in one, unless it made a cheap coffin! :o
:o

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Originally Posted by Paul_A

Don't make any sense to me at all .... need to charge it up... and where does that come from? ...A Power station that pollutes just as much as an automobile. Where's the gain? :confused: Sorry if I'm missing something... and yeah that electric tricycle is hideous... wouldn't be seen dead in one, unless it made a cheap coffin! :o
:o

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Here's my thought on electric cars...they don't work for everyone, but they should work for most. 95% of people in the US drive 35 miles per day or less, and drive by themselves about 90% of the time. So, small short range cars work well for most people.

On the pollution front, yes, the electricity comes from coal, whatever, but, we have developed non polluting ways to generate electricity. We have NOT figured out a way to make a solar/wind/hydro powered car. So, the logical thing is to push battery powered plug in cars and simultaneously push for renewable energy plants, to solve both sides of the problem. Plus, I have a hard time believing that coal/NG fueled power plants actually pollute as much as cars on the road.

Here's the real kicker. Your wallet. If you are inclined to drive in a car that costs $30-40k anyway, this one is a winner. No oil changes; in fact, virtually no maintenance. Electricity costs about $0.15 to $0.20 per kwH, I think. The battery pack capacity in this car is 32 kwh, so, even if you drain the battery to zero every day and charge it up, it will cost you about $5-6 per day to drive your 100 miles. If you assume an average of 20mpg and $4 gasoline, that means the average person in an average car driving the same commute would save about $421 per month.

The average person will save about $700 per month if they completely ditch their car, meaning that if you take the cost of all maintenance, payments, and insurance and amortize it over a year, this is what the average person spends to drive their car. Since the range of this car is 100 miles, it seems safe to assume that 1 mile should equal around 1% of the battery pack's capacity. Most people would use about 11.2 kwh to do their 35 mile per day commuting. At $0.20 per kwh, this translates to $2.24 in electricity to drive. Compared to $7 per day in the same hypothetical 20 mpg car at $4 per gallon. Comparing the monthly energy costs for these two, gives a total savings per month of around $147 for the average driver. Take that off of the $700 and you get $553. Since the car requires basically no maintenance, you can probably scrap another $50 per month off of that, conservatively.

So figure you will save $200 per month by using this car for 95% of your driving. Is it worth it to you? Only you can answer that.

Oh, and remember, many people think the VX is ugly. Eye of the beholder, and all.

Personally, I want one.

You compare a 3 seater with no cargo to the gas mileage a full size pick up gets that can haul 1000 pounds of cargo and 3 people. With a 3 year limited warranty my guess is they aren't standing behind your guess that zero maintainance will be needed. What they dont have parts that wear, need greased etc. I notice you also add maintainance for the gas vehicle but mention no figure for insurance on a $38,000 piece of plastic. I would love to see how that vehicle handles in a crash test first.

Now as to the gas vs electric cost if everyone switches electricity demand goes through the roof and cost expands to cover the new needed electrical demands. You cant build power plants for free. Following the law of supply and demand the kw goes up. Plus your car sits out all day unplugged and all the little devices sap the power. Are you going to pull over and charge your car for 10 hours before getting home? uld the government take more tax dollars than they already do to support these vehicles and build charging stations for them?

In addition, I do not know about you but I often drive my car for other things besides work. Got a date? Sorry honey cant take you out tonite I have to charge up my car.

I picked the 20 mpg as a guesstimate for average combined fuel economy on the road, and you are right, this car is not as capable as the truck you describe, but not everyone needs that truck. Next time you are on the road, pay attention to the occupancy rates of the other vehicles. I bet it is pretty close to 90% single occupancy, unless you happen to be on the HOV.

I'm not sure I understand your argument about the car sitting out all day... your car battery has a fraction of the capacity of these batteries, but it doesn't drain out from all the "little devices" (by which I assume you mean clock, security system, etc) on your car. The .gov should NOT be involved in pushing this, in my opinion, if the market is there, then the charging stations will appear. I believe the market is coming, as my local grocery store recently installed a pair of charging stations in their parking lot. I don't think they would have done that if they thought it was a money wasting proposition.

The argument about driving on a date is a non-starter. 95% of Americans average 35 miles, or less, per day for all driving. If you have a 100 mile range, you can go on your date, and date night driving is included in the average person's 35 mile usage.

I didn't mention insurance because I personally don't know how much motorcycle insurance costs; frequently these types of cars are classified as motorcyles for insurance and registration purposes. In many states, (FL for example) this would mean that if you were willing to wear a helmet while driving (silly I know....), you actuall would not be required to carry insurance. I spend about $90 per month to insure my VX, I simply don't have any data to compare it to.

As I mentioned in my other post, this is not going to be the answer for all, but I applaud the effort and thought put into this car. Whether you like it or not doesn't mean that the idea is completely without merit. I personally don't like Proton VX's...that doesn't mean you are wrong for owning one, just that you and I have different tastes.

I wasn't trying to sway your opinon, merely to show why someone might want one. I personally couldn't afford one at the moment, because of the payment; the cost savings in fuel from VX to this wouldn't be enough to offset the increased cost of the car itself. Still want one, though.

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Originally Posted by JHarris1385

Have you heard about the cover up stories of the Volt? Chevy has paid a number of owners to NOT talk about the Volt's issues.

And if you are plugging in, how much are you now spending on electric?

Where does electricity come from? Purely hydro electric? Or..wait....

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I will look into the cover up allegations and perhaps comment later, but the idea that electric vehicles are merely transferring the emissions and cost to your outlet (and the power generating station) is simply not true. The power plants are vastly more efficient than our little mobile internal combustion engines by every measure. Part of it is the type of eneergy producing cycle: some forms are simply more efficient in terms of input over output, and part of it is the scale: increasing the size from a little portable engine to a gian plant gives you major efficiencies. This isn't some sort of left wing rant, an electric or hybrid isn't for everyone, I get that, this is about engineering. Weather you want to be all environmental and worry about emssions, or you want to lower you cost for each energy unit, the electrics and hybrids are way more efficient than the purely fossil fuel powered car. The real question is are you willing to pay the intial cost of entry, i.e., the purchase price of the car given that they tend to cost more than a suitable gas powered equivalent.

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Originally Posted by circmand

Now as to the gas vs electric cost if everyone switches electricity demand goes through the roof and cost expands to cover the new needed electrical demands. You cant build power plants for free. Following the law of supply and demand the kw goes up. Plus your car sits out all day unplugged and all the little devices sap the power. Are you going to pull over and charge your car for 10 hours before getting home? uld the government take more tax dollars than they already do to support these vehicles and build charging stations for them? .

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I agree with your point about the unfair math comparison, but this supply and demand argument is missing some critical aspects and I think arrives at a false conclusion. Electricity production costs are closely tied to fossil fuel prices. If everyone switches to electric cars per your scenario, then a major user of fossil fuel goes away, which vastly increases the supply of avialable fuels to the elecric plant purchases, which then lowers electricy prices. This would be a greater impact on price than the demand increase from the new electricity users because of the previously mentioned greater unit efficiency of electric cars vs gas cars.

As for the 10 hour charge after work concern: this is just nonsense. Its almost as if you think all the electric car engineers are morons that will be astounded to learn of this fatal flaw you have discovered. The electric car batteries are very big, and compared to the miniscule trickle demand of the car's electronics when not in use duriung the course of a day, it will have a very tiny effect on the power reserve avaiable when you come out of work to drive home. This is simply a non issue.

The lifestyle choices argument I get, as well as the range concerns, which is why I think we will be increasing hybrid market for a long time while pure electrics will continue to languish in a very niche market.

The Union of Concerned Scientists, a nonprofit, sought to clarify matters by doing a lifecycle analysis of greenhouse gas emissions that includes energy inputs from start to finish, not only during drive time.

It finds that charging an all-electric car, such as the Nissan Leaf, in regions dominated by coal results in global warming emissions equivalent to a car with a mileage rating between 31 miles per gallon to 40 mpg.

The coal-dominated regions are in the Midwest, representing 18 percent of the U.S. population. In this case, a hybrid Prius, for example, which gets about 48 mpg, would be less polluting than an all-electric car.

Electric vehicles charged in areas with cleaner sources of electricity yields the equivalent of over 50 miles per gallon, better than the most fuel-efficient gasoline or diesel cars today. Those areas include most of the western states and most of the states on the eastern seaboard, which rely more on hydropower, natural gas, or nuclear. These regions as "best" for plug-ins cover about 45 percent of the U.S. population.

"This report's analysis shows that consumers should feel confident that driving an electric vehicle yields lower global warming emissions than the average new compact gasoline-powered vehicle," according to the report.

The authors note there are other benefits to driving plug-in electric vehicles, including lower costs per mile and reducing oil consumption.

Plug-in electric vehicles come with a higher price tag, but the Union of Concerned Scientists study estimates that over the life of the car a driver could save over 6,000 gallons of gasoline and $13,000 by driving an all-electric vehicle, compared to an average compact gasoline car. That assumes $3.50 per gallon gasoline, the U.S. average for electricity prices which is 11 cents per kilowatt-hour, and 15,000 miles a year for 15 years.


Now my addition if you have to drive the car for 15 years at 15000 miles a year that is 225000 miles. At $13,000 savings over 225,000 miles that is a savings of 5 cents a mile. Now ask yourself would you rather drive 225,000 in a comfortable hybrid with no worries about running out of juice or take the risk in an all electric vehicle with over estimated range and a 3 year limited warranty?

There is some concern that electric vehicles will not have as long a life span as internal combustion vehicles, due to the potential need to replace expensive batteries.

Good article, would love to have a link if you get the chance. I think we are in agreement on the utility of a hybrid vs the all electric, at least for now. Which is why I think the OP should at least compare his offbrand electric to the Chevy Volt and other hybrid options.

T

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Originally Posted by circmand

The Union of Concerned Scientists, a nonprofit, sought to clarify matters by doing a lifecycle analysis of greenhouse gas emissions that includes energy inputs from start to finish, not only during drive time.

It finds that charging an all-electric car, such as the Nissan Leaf, in regions dominated by coal results in global warming emissions equivalent to a car with a mileage rating between 31 miles per gallon to 40 mpg.

The coal-dominated regions are in the Midwest, representing 18 percent of the U.S. population. In this case, a hybrid Prius, for example, which gets about 48 mpg, would be less polluting than an all-electric car.

Electric vehicles charged in areas with cleaner sources of electricity yields the equivalent of over 50 miles per gallon, better than the most fuel-efficient gasoline or diesel cars today. Those areas include most of the western states and most of the states on the eastern seaboard, which rely more on hydropower, natural gas, or nuclear. These regions as "best" for plug-ins cover about 45 percent of the U.S. population.

"This report's analysis shows that consumers should feel confident that driving an electric vehicle yields lower global warming emissions than the average new compact gasoline-powered vehicle," according to the report.

The authors note there are other benefits to driving plug-in electric vehicles, including lower costs per mile and reducing oil consumption.

Plug-in electric vehicles come with a higher price tag, but the Union of Concerned Scientists study estimates that over the life of the car a driver could save over 6,000 gallons of gasoline and $13,000 by driving an all-electric vehicle, compared to an average compact gasoline car. That assumes $3.50 per gallon gasoline, the U.S. average for electricity prices which is 11 cents per kilowatt-hour, and 15,000 miles a year for 15 years.


Now my addition if you have to drive the car for 15 years at 15000 miles a year that is 225000 miles. At $13,000 savings over 225,000 miles that is a savings of 5 cents a mile. Now ask yourself would you rather drive 225,000 in a comfortable hybrid with no worries about running out of juice or take the risk in an all electric vehicle with over estimated range and a 3 year limited warranty?

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Originally Posted by JHarris1385

Have you heard about the cover up stories of the Volt? Chevy has paid a number of owners to NOT talk about the Volt's issues.

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Well I have been looking into this supposed cover up, at least as best I can with google, and here is all I can discover:
- A GM crash test Volt was subjected to side pole damage and a subsequent roll over. Three weeks later caught fire.
- NHTSA opened an investigation and was able to replicate this in two instances, both of which had a fire occur a week or more after the rollover.
- GM offered all Chevy Volt owners an option to loan them a different car, or buy back there Volt during the investigation and until they resolved whatever came out of it.
- No private owned Volt has had this fire happen.
- GM made adjustments to the battery to prevent after the fact fires in th weeks following a roll over collision.
- NHTSA closed the investigation as resolved.

The only conspiracy-like charge I can find here is the 5 month delay in opening the investigation following the single reported incident of post wreck fire, which doesn't see too conspiritorial to me. The "paying people not to talk about it" seems to be a distortion of GM's customer focused offer to buy back Volts from those worried about it. Of course, its possible that the Chevy Volt was responsible for 9/11 and causes autism.

I wouldn't expect a fire 3 weeks after a crash test to set off alarm bells that something was wrong. I can imagine a lot of head scratching over the delay action pyrotechnics.

I personally think that if a person wants to have a genuine discussion about a possible conspiracy regarding an electric car, the General Motors EV1 would be a better place to start than the Volt.

I admit that I live in a College town, and in the NW we use Hydro power.
That said, in my town (and others) they are already installing charging stations in preferred parking spaces at Garages and Supermarkets.
But drives over 100 mile a day are still common.
I would go with a Prius, Leaf, or Volt. They seem to be a better value for the money. IMHO
Zap three wheeled trucks and some Electric Ecocars are common, as well as some Lic. and Tagged Golf carts that are driven daily by some commuters.

http://www.greencar.com/articles/5-e...an-buy-now.php
http://www.allpar.com/cars/adopted/GEM/
I see a lot of these GEMS in town and on campus as work vehicles.

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Originally Posted by Osteomata

Good article, would love to have a link if you get the chance. I think we are in agreement on the utility of a hybrid vs the all electric, at least for now. Which is why I think the OP should at least compare his offbrand electric to the Chevy Volt and other hybrid options.

T

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http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_vehicles...tric-cars.html

Lol! Now I'm Impressed! :yesgray:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_ukLgsGEzs

Co-worker has a ZAP electric 3 wheeler, along with some other chinese electric car, what a piece of crap, both of them. Don't get me wrong, not against electric cars, just when it's wrapped in pure junk and you have to pay this kind of money for them.

Here is his web site: http://www.pluginolympia.com/index.htm

I assume those the only cover up stories? Ok?