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If one were going to be abusing a VX offroad (highspeed plus low speed rocks), what would be the 10 things in order (opinions) that you think would break?
I ask because in theory these would be the 10 items I would want to beef up first.
Example:
1. Bushings
2. Ball joints
3. Lower control Arms
4. Ring and Pinion
5. Engine Mounts
6. Etc
7. Etc
Opinions??
:)
tie rods
CV boots/joints
alternator if you are in muddy water
transmission mounts
Abusing any VX is a crime and fills me with a great sense of sorrow.:_crying:Quote:
Originally Posted by REDLYNER
The #1 item I would "beef up" first would be my Bank Savings Account with $$$ and prepare for its subsequent depletion.:yeso:
:bgwb:
:rolleyesg...ohferchristsake grandma...live a little...:laughing:Quote:
Originally Posted by Riff Raff
http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-taunt003.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by Ldub
http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/s...rv/fishing.gif
:yesgray:.:laughing:Quote:
Originally Posted by Anita
I'm rediscovering one of my favorite hobbies...:smilewink
+1...and lower links can bend on rocksQuote:
Originally Posted by etlsport
:tweed:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ldub
seriously?-
1. CV axles
2. Tie rods
3. control arms
4. transmission mounts
5. hubs
6. then your onto mashing up some steel ;)
1. Tie rod (only thing I ever broke on my VX)
2. Transfer case (no skid plate)
3. Lower links (weak and can bend)
4. CV's (I have seen them take a beating tho)
5. U-joints
6. Bump stops (one of my rear one's disappeared)
7. Cladding
8. CD Changer
9. Seat back
10. Er... Thumb? (by putting your thumb inside the steering wheel ring and smacking into something) er... old OE shocks could blow out
your pride when you smash a body panel?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ldub
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Originally Posted by Anita
http://www.pic4ever.com/images/25r30wi.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by Ldub
http://www.pic4ever.com/images/banana_smiley_7.gifhttp://www.pic4ever.com/images/banana_smiley_36.gif
I'm debating between a few vehicles right now to actually use as a race rig. I like the VX because of the price for what you get: $4.5k to $5k for IFS (which just destroyed King of the Hammers and Baja) along with the solid rear on long arms. Wheelbase is a little short, but a TJ won one of the races last year in Class A with a 94" wheelbase, so maybe it's not too short.
Besides reliability (this would go with any 12+ year old vehicle), my only real concern is the Torque on Demand. I've watched dozens of Vehi youtube clips (many by Triathlete on this board) and it looks like once a tire is lifted, you are SOL on traction. Basically being open/open. I think an Aussie up front would hinder racing and an ARB would eat up nearly half of my parts budget to get it race ready.
That being said, my wish list is around $3.5k in parts (including a cage and tires), but my parts budget will only be around $2k to start.
My initial list (which covers several of the weak points listed by you guys) looks like:
- Tires: $800
- HD Lower links: $450
- HD Tie Rod ends: $250
- Comp Springs: $170
- Wheel Spacers: $120
- Fire Suit: $100
- Greasable Bushings: $30
Then I would still need:
- Cage: $500
- Airbumps: $300
- Reservoir Shocks: $300
- Harness: $65
Class A racing allows one locker and 33" tires, or no locker and up to 35" tires. Originally I was thinking 33"s for the VX (285/75 16's), but was also thinking about about 32"s (265/75 16's) just for the sake of less stress on the parts.
Thoughts on tire size??
Just doing my research now so when I do pull the trigger, I can get it built quickly. There are 5 races this year and it would be nice to get one or two in.
Other rigs that are/were being considered:
H3 ($12k = too much)
TJ ($5k, but we have one and wife doesn't want another- and its SFA)
XJ ($2.5k, but 12 out 15 or so of the racers are racing these- and its SFA)
Ranger ($3k, haven't done the parts research on these)
For Class A does the non-locked diff have to be completely open? In other words, would an Aussie in back, Isuzu LSD in front and tires 33" or less meet the rules? Seems like that would be a good compromise as far as traction vs handling...
Somebody correct me on this but I thought that a lower link is a tie rod - just different names for the same thing. If not then what is a lower link?
LL's are the 2 bars that attach to your rear axle housing that keep it tracking straight.
CD Changer
Rims
They break w/o hardship
My understanding is that those are called lateral rods by Isuzu in the manual. In steering terminology the center link or I believe upper link is the long rod that connects to each inner tie rod end, the pitman arm, and the idler arm. So I made an assumption that lower links were the name for the tie rod (also called an adjuster sleeve). Without those lateral rods (that your calling lower links) if you hit the gas your rear axle would go flying out your front end and you'd be staring at it. Those lateral rods ought to be called push rods ha ha ha cause that is exactly what they do. They push the vehicle forward or pull it backward.:grinb:Quote:
Originally Posted by Triathlete
Limited slips are ok, so you could do the rear locker/front limited slip. Do you have to reset the gears for either of those? I know in jeeps the Aussie is a bolt in driveway job.
My main concerns now are the engine and transmission. The races are between 30 and 50 miles and last around 2 hours. Highspeed, rocks, some mud, and everything in-between. 3 classes- A is stock modified and is where the Vehi would run. Each class has a harder track (A, B, C)
Hmm... Ebz the VX has a 3-link rear suspension which is misleading since there are actually 4 links/bars/arms/rods to locate the axle. "Link" is common terminology in live axle suspension design whereas "lateral rods" is something I have never heard before so it must not truly exist. HAHA! J/K However, the term 'lateral rod' seems like it would better apply to the track bar/panhard bar since it locates the axle laterally.
If you were to replace your rear limited slip with a locker of any type then yes you would have to reinstall your gears with a new carrier/diff. Going from an open carrier to a carrier with ratcheting halves tho only means you need to remove the 3rd, remove the spider gears, and install the locker in the original carrier, so tolerances are not changed. That is just my understanding tho, the Isuzu carrier accepts the Aussie from what I have heard...Quote:
Originally Posted by REDLYNER
deermagnet, could you post up one of those iso-schematics with the steering parts identified as well please? I'd like to see some of the terms they used for that stuff...
I don't got one. Ya might find something like that in the repair manual or at www.myisuzuparts.com.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZEUS
Mark
hey Mark, where/what is that "driveHQ" ? Is that like a CD or disc or something with all that Isuzu/VX info & great diagrams? Can I get a copy?
For a wider alternate size M/T tire in the 32" O.D. range, check-out the 285/70R16 (32" O.D.) tires from TOYO and NITTO tire brands (they are the only two tire manufacturers that make this rare unique size). It may be just what you're looking for instead of the narrower 265/75R16 size. Best of luck to you on your racing endeavors. Please put the website of "Vehicross.Info" somewhere on the exterior of your VX when it's ready for racing. Cheers.Quote:
Originally Posted by REDLYNER
:bgwb:
Thanks Mark. Good diagrams. When I was reading the manual I mistook Lateral rod for the trailing links. On page 2a-37 of the manual or thereabouts is a diagram of the steering linkage. The terminology used by Isuzu is center track rod for the large linkage that the pitman arm attaches to and "outer track rod" for tie rods. I could swear that several months ago when I was going through all this stuff at other websites and parts websites that somewhere someone labeled them center link and lower links.?????Quote:
Originally Posted by deermagnet
You know what would be funny...?? disconnect all those rear axle links then put the VX in reverse and gun it hard. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Make sure someones behind you. the driveshaft would disconnect at the splines and someone would be wearing the rear axle. ha ha ha ha. Hey would one of you like to try that.???? If you do please set up a video recorder for us..:yesy::yeso::yesb::yesgray::bwgy::smilewink:
"Wait for it........."
Zeus..ha ha ha. I just can't wait any longer I been thinking about this. We could have an axle throwing contest. kinda like a watermelon seed spitting contest. Maybe when you all get to Moab you could line up and disconnect your links then everybody 1..2..3.. gun it. backward ha ha ha.:jump:
I work a lot with rally (WRC Style) and Off-Road Racing Cars and Teams.
Important parts overlooked by many (and yes, me too on my own VX) are:
- Brake Pads
- Brake Rotors
- Front Hub
- Front Wheel Bearing/Seal Kit (at least one!)
- Brake Hoses (luckily I manufacture these for a living :-)
- Uprights ("Knuckles") left and right
OR preferably complete (preset) assemblies for left and right "corners" - makes changeovers a breeze.
Although I keep the caining to "occasional" I keep the following as spares in my own workshop:
- Trailing Arms (make these myself from Chromoly)
- Adjustable Top Link
- Adjustable Panard Rod/ Lateral Link
- Left and Right Front Corner Assemblies complete with Brake Hoses and HalfShafts
- EXTRA Set of CV Joint (outer) (1 only)
- Top Ball Joint (1)
- Lower Ball Joint (1)
- Wheel Bearing Kit (1)
Still needed (on my to-get-list):
- Lower Control A-Arms (L&R)
- Upper Control Arms (L&R)
- Beefy Adjustable Sway Bar (may have to make this sucker)
- a pair of nice adjustable Bilstein Shocks!
OMG where does it end???? $$$$$
Perhaps purchasing a spare BigHorn or Trooper to Pirate the parts of.....
I love how even in their description just above the photo they use different wordage:Quote:
Originally Posted by deermagnet
Trailing links = trailing arms
Lateral rod link = lateral rod
And then it states "the same shocks are used on the front"..... What? No they are not. The reservoir on the fronts points upwards and on the rear it points down. The attachment is totally different and the travel on the rear shocks is much greater than the front. Hmmmm
Seems like you'd want all that irreplaceable stuff in the cloud too.Quote:
Originally Posted by deermagnet
Maybe I'm having a brain far+, OK...um..don't answer that...:laugho: you know...but is your stuff the same as the shop manual we can download? Or what is it? I didn't know there was anything else available, or rare or sensitive.....:_thinking It is something we can purchase somewhere or how can we get a copy? My local mechanic hadn't ever seen a VX up close, but so far hasn't had to repair anything, but it would put my mind to ease if I could get him some more data/info/specs, or whatever, in addition to the shop manual. Gee, while yer a burnin' CDs...could I put in a request ??:flower:Quote:
Originally Posted by deermagnet
Sorry for the t/j :mbrasd:
I worry about what will protect the data from being lost period if something happens (God forbid) to you or your home. In "the biz" we like to say that a backup in the same physical location as the master is no backup at all. I'm still baffled as to why it's so critical to you to keep this data hidden from the community, but if you're intent on doing so, wouldn't it at least make sense to send a copy of everything to someone else here that you trust (Moncha perhaps?) so there's at least some way to recover?Quote:
Originally Posted by deermagnet
My, aren't we curious tonight? :)
I've posted the vast majority of what I have, whole documents or at least the most useful bits. The huge list of very useful Isuzu service bulletins posted here would not exist without me. Didn't I just give up some Isuzu electronic Christmas gifts? A couple of them had never been seen by anyone here before. I've posted a bunch of Isuzu videos here that the world has never seen online, or maybe would have never seen if not for one person with the knowledge and ability to collect and host and post that stuff. That person is me!
Hmmm.... that makes me feel pretty important. ;Dy;
Enough of this thread jack!
I'll have to start a post later this week organizing the stuff I have posted and some stuff that maybe has never been seen before. Oh, the suspense!
And please keep in mind, a lot of the stuff I post violates copyright laws!
Mark Griffin
Depending On The Beating Of Course, Ha Ha
http://smileys.emoticonsonly.com/emo...re_you-960.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by deermagnet
Can it take a beating like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXPQY_VRP6M
This is a very funny link...watch it. ( I have tears in my eyes from laughing )
Just to give you guys an idea of the races, here are a few videos from last year. Only 40% of the rigs that started the race actually finished. My brother-in-law raced twice and didn't get through one lap, so it can be pretty intense.
Helmet Cam from a Class B jeep Wrangler at Devils Playground (similar track to Class A)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imsHWmLYWPY
Harlan, KY KOH qualifier Class C (DVD preview)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xt-vQIgefHY
The Flats, NC Class A (VX class)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV9kbjayrO0
I have seen Shannons KOH rig up close and personal....believe me, his IFS does not even come close to looking like anything you will find under your VX!:bwgy:Quote:
Originally Posted by REDLYNER
Not sure how the rules work for the class you are entering...If your vehicle comes from the factory with some sort of traction device can you add a locker to the other axle and still comply with the rules? If so your VX has a limited slip in the rear so the best bang for your bucks would be a front locker (ARB or an Aussie with manual hubs).:yesy:
Also I would definately beef up your rear links.
You could probably go as far as saying Shannon's IFS doesn't look like anyone's on the planet. My comment was based more on principal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Triathlete
Rules for Class A:
- Any axle swap is ok as long as it maintains stock suspension symmetry. So if it is IFS, you can't swap in a solid axle. If it is leaf sprung, you can't switch it to coils and links.
- Limited slips do NOT count as lockers and are ok.
- You can race with 33" tires and one locker
- Or
- 35" tires and no locker.
Does not matter what it came with from the factory (LSD, Open, Locker).
As an example, the 2009 Hummer H3 Adv pkg come with 33" tires and front and rear lockers. Even though that is a factory option, it would still be bumped up to Class B. The 2006 H3 comes with front and rear limited slips. So I could race that on 35"s and still be in Class A.
Do they make ARBs for the front and rear of a Vehi? I'll do more research on this too.