Small yet annoying problem starting my VX

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03/27/2010, 09:48 AM
VXorado

Small yet annoying problem starting my VX

First off, my VX runs like a champ- engine feels strong, sounds good, idles smoothly and has no CELs. Typically when I start the VX it takes about 1 second to turnover. Recently I have noticed that the VX will take 3-4 seconds (seems like forever) to start after sitting for 2-4 hrs. If the VX is off less than 2 hrs or more than 4 hrs, it starts in the normal 1 second. No matter how long it takes to start, the engine + idle are always smooth once running. It just started doing this a few months ago so I know something is wrong and I'm afraid it will keep getting worse until the VX doesn't start.

Has anyone ever experienced this? :confused: I haven't found the same problem posted on the forum yet.

Heres what I've done trying to troubleshoot the problem:
-Replaced the fuel pressure reg & fuel filter
-Used fuel injector cleaner + using quality fuel
-Checked proper voltage on battery/alternator
-Starter was replaced last summer

What should I do next, spark plugs or ???

If I can't figure this out soon, i'll take it to a shop. I've been holding off on taking it in because the shops around here are horrible. Any ideas would be appreciated as i'm losing my mind trying to figure it out.
03/27/2010, 11:43 AM
RabidPony

I vote clean the connections on the coil packs with electrical cleaner then hit them with some dielectric grease and then replace the plugs. Also, get some MAF cleaner and clean your MAF and IAT sensor. Even if it doesn't solve the problem, it definitely won't hurt.
03/27/2010, 03:34 PM
MSHardeman

Jon, have you done any electrical work to the VX recently? A little while ago I tried to do Raque Thomas' mod so that when I hit the stock key fob lock release a second time it actually triggers the rear door popper. It didn't quite work, but I realized that I had installed a relay incorrectly and it was constantly drawing power even when the VX was off, thus running the battery down a little bit. It was doing everything that you are describing; taking longer to start than normal, but running fine afterwards. After I realized what was going on and rewired the relay the problem went away.

Maybe you have a short somewhere that is draining the battery.:_confused
03/27/2010, 05:09 PM
Sprey

im sure mine did this a few times.
would crank but slowly start. so cleaned the IAC sensor and the maf sensor and its been good ever since.
03/27/2010, 07:50 PM
VXorado

Quote:

Originally Posted by RabidPony

I vote clean the connections on the coil packs with electrical cleaner then hit them with some dielectric grease and then replace the plugs. Also, get some MAF cleaner and clean your MAF and IAT sensor. Even if it doesn't solve the problem, it definitely won't hurt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sprey

im sure mine did this a few times.
would crank but slowly start. so cleaned the IAC sensor and the maf sensor and its been good ever since.

Well I defintely haven't looked at those sensors yet so i'll give them some cleaning and see if that helps my startups

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSHardeman

Jon, have you done any electrical work to the VX recently? A little while ago I tried to do Raque Thomas' mod so that when I hit the stock key fob lock release a second time it actually triggers the rear door popper. It didn't quite work, but I realized that I had installed a relay incorrectly and it was constantly drawing power even when the VX was off, thus running the battery down a little bit. It was doing everything that you are describing; taking longer to start than normal, but running fine afterwards. After I realized what was going on and rewired the relay the problem went away.

Maybe you have a short somewhere that is draining the battery.:_confused

I actually installed a backup camera at Christmas and this problem started around the same time. I figured I wired the camera wrong, so I disconected the camera for a couple days to check if the starting problem reocurred and unfortunetly it did. Obviously I should check my wiring again if you had the exact same problem.

Thanks guys :winkgray:. Now I have a few new "fixes" to try out, I'll update the forum in a couple days
03/27/2010, 10:03 PM
jdm monkey

Mine did this too. Its not the battery because it cranks strong it just takes longer to fire. I think its the coil connection or spark plug. I'll clean out the connection and change my spark plugs.
03/28/2010, 12:56 PM
Greasemonkey

Could be the starter on the way out - taking the power away from the coil packs
regards
Steve
04/02/2010, 08:34 PM
VXorado

I wanted to update everyone on the "fixing." I'm fairly confident that the problem is resolved. I found a fuel leak through the schrader valve on the fuel rail which was causing the VX to lose fuel pressure. I found a cap from the evap service line which I used to stop the fuel leak. I'm still not 100% sure the problem is fixed but its looking good so far.

Cleaning the sensors and using seafoam in the intake system didn't fix this problem but made the VX run super smooth.
04/03/2010, 05:43 AM
Ldub

Quote:

Originally Posted by VXorado

I found a cap from the evap service line which I used to stop the fuel leak. I'm still not 100% sure the problem is fixed but its looking good so far.

Did you take the valve apart?

Sounds like a new valve core is in order.
IMO, a new cap is kind of a "bandaid" solution.
04/03/2010, 09:29 AM
VXorado

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ldub

Did you take the valve apart?

Sounds like a new valve core is in order.
IMO, a new cap is kind of a "bandaid" solution.

No I didn't take the valve apart, its the schrader valve (looks like a overside bicycle tire valve) on the fuel rail. Its impossible for me to take it apart without destroying the fuel rail.

You're right on the cap being a temporary fix. I either need to get a new fuel rail (probably from merlin) or I can actually pipe solder a permanent cap in place because the fuel rail is made from copper. I'll probably just get a new rail because I don't want to risk a fuel leak turning into an engine fire :crying::flame:
04/03/2010, 09:52 AM
Ldub

Quote:

Originally Posted by VXorado

No I didn't take the valve apart, its the schrader valve (looks like a overside bicycle tire valve) on the fuel rail. Its impossible for me to take it apart without destroying the fuel rail.

You're right on the cap being a temporary fix. I either need to get a new fuel rail (probably from merlin) or I can actually pipe solder a permanent cap in place because the fuel rail is made from copper. I'll probably just get a new rail because I don't want to risk a fuel leak turning into an engine fire :crying::flame:

After a suitable amount of time with no pressure, & a good cleaning with alcohol or acetone, you could epoxy the cap on with JB weld.

I know it sounds a little "bandaidish" but I fixed a leaky banjo fitting (fuel) with the stuff two years ago in Moab, & it still no leaky to this day...:yesgray:

I've never looked closely at the schrader valve thingy on the fuel rail, I always assumed (apparently incorrectly) that the innards came out with a valve core removal tool...:_confused
05/31/2011, 07:44 PM
Anita

Starting problem -- its an odd one

With the purchase of a couch on wheels car, the VX can take the weekend off and not rack up the miles. A couple of weeks ago I started have a strange problem starting up.

Turn the key:
First try: nothing
Second try: engine will turn once
Third try: Starts right up, like a champ and no problems whatsoever driving.

Now, it happens almost every time. Even when I drive it a good half hour, turn it off and try to start again, it happens.

The problem doesnt seem to get better or worse. We check the battery and cables. The problem occurs whether in Park and in Neutral. No slow chugging.

No matter what, when it decides to really start, it starts fast and strong. I have been waiting for the VX to quit starting so the mechanic could diagnose. I already had it in and the problem didnt happen.. of course.

Anyone have an idea what it could be?
05/31/2011, 08:22 PM
Grif

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anita

Anyone have an idea what it could be?

Faulty/dirty/corroded internal ignition switch contacts? Same for neutral safety switch contacts?

(does the VX have an actual neutral safety switch aside from the transmission mode selector switch which is often called 'neutral safety switch'?)

When you say "first try, nothing" do you mean the engine starter does not even try to turn? No sounds whatsoever?

On "Second try: turns once" do you mean you can hear the starter engage and try to turn the engine but the engine doesn't fire? Or does the engine fire once for a revolution or so then not continue to run?
05/31/2011, 10:39 PM
Anita

Grif,

Thanks for the suggestions.

At the first try, there is nothing. All the lights on the dash come on,but when I turn the key, not even a click.

Second try, the engine will turn once (I guess you could call it one revolution.

Now, sometimes it takes four try's and sometimes just two. There was one day in between where it acted just perfect.
05/31/2011, 11:05 PM
Grif

Ignition switch or ignition relay. Either way, it sounds like an intermittent electrical prob which resolves itself eventually over repeated attempts. Electrical contacts will do that if dirty, corroded or otherwise degraded via mechanical wear.
06/01/2011, 12:11 AM
PK

Anita, I am very confident you are in the early stages of a starter motor failure.
I have been through this and ended up with a new starter motor.

The contacts in the starter solenoid start to burn out (lump on top of the starter motor), and the first couple of times, fail to complete the circuit.
After a few tries, they come together and away you go.

Don't leave it too long to fix it.
I put up with mine for a couple of months (2 starts per day) and then the contacts burned themselves together.
I didn't notice, and drove about 5 miles with the starter motor still engaged to the engine.
Completely fried it, and very lucky the car did not catch fire.

I hope your mechanic has small hands - it is tight in there.

PK
06/01/2011, 08:17 AM
rsteinmetz70112

can you replace the solenoid without replacing the starter motor?
06/01/2011, 05:22 PM
PK

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsteinmetz70112

can you replace the solenoid without replacing the starter motor?

Your auto electrician should be able to buy this as a separate part.

I had to have a new starter because mine was totally fried after I drove with it still engaged to the engine.
Complete new starter (after market) was only $120, so not a bank breaker.
I did the labour myself.

PK