Are gas cars the cigarettes of the near future?

So, after reading a few of the new posts about nano cars and air cars and whatnot, I got to thinking about it. Suppose we as humans actually realize that we need to do something about the environment RIGHT NOW, and car companies start going full speed ahead with enviro-friendly cars, what is going to happen to the BILLIONS of gas cars out there already?

It’s my thinking that right now, gas cars are just like cigarettes were 50 years ago. When scientists first started linking smoking to cancer and a multitude of other diseases, people were skeptical, and cigarette companies were in denial. And it took 40+ years for society to start to REALLY recognize the truth, and do something about it. And in reality, it took around 50 years or so from the moment we realized that smoking was bad, for politics to catch up, finally issuing legislation that outright bans smoking in many places. And that is just here in the US.

Now, I don't want this thread to become some "freedom to kill yourself" or another "seatbelts" thread. What I am basically talking about, is the fact that it took about 50 years for society to change on a large enough scale to actually make things happen. This is worrisome if you ask me. Smoking is something that you can just stop doing, flush your last pack of smokes down the toilet, feel better and save money. But we can't do that with our gas powered cars. Even IF we make a massive countrywide change, what will happen to all the old cars? I suppose there can be programs to recycle them, programs to retrofit them with whatever “new enviro-engines” we have in place, and so on. But we are talking about a very ideal situation, and we all know that society operates far from the ideal.

So now, armed with the knowledge that greenhouse gasses are causing worldwide climate problems that cannot be denied, how long will it take to make the real changes we need to help the situation? I think we are a long way off from a time when people who drive gas cars are viewed by society as people who have a “dirty habit” like smoking. Say it takes 50 years to make nationwide changes. I think it will be way, way too late. Anyway, I was just sitting here thinking about how doomed we are. :) Of course, cars and greenhouse gasses are only one aspect of the global problems caused by mankind's footprint...

Anyway, any other thoughts?

What's a seatbelt?

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Originally Posted by ZEUS

What's a seatbelt?

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How'd I know you would be the first to respond, and have a comment like that? :smilewink

Bart

It is probably past the point of no return already. China and India are just now getting into capitalism and materialism,so their not going to stop their economic growth.I'll be dead before it gets too bad. :deadgray:I'll probably come back as a polar bear in Miami.:rolleyes:

I forgot,Miami will be under water.

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Originally Posted by Scott Harness

It is probably past the point of no return already. China and India are just now getting into capitalism and materialism,so their not going to stop their economic growth.I'll be dead before it gets too bad. :deadgray:I'll probably come back as a polar bear in Miami.:rolleyes:

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Yeah, you are probably right, Scott. I agree that we are already screwed....obviously. I just watched one of the most depressing documentaries I have ever seen, called "Deep Trouble". Its one of the special features on the Blue Planet DVD set. Its basically a short film about how our oceans have been destroyed and overfished, probably to the point of no return. Its sickening to think about how we have all but completely destroyed our planet in less than 100 years.

Bart

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Originally Posted by nfpgasmask

Yeah, you are probably right, Scott. I agree that we are already screwed....obviously. I just watched one of the most depressing documentaries I have ever seen, called "Deep Trouble". Its one of the special features on the Blue Planet DVD set. Its basically a short film about how our oceans have been destroyed and overfished, probably to the point of no return. Its sickening to think about how we have all but completely destroyed our planet in less than 100 years.

Bart

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Look on the bright side, the planet will most likely destroy us and then begin to heal.

I look at this whole greenhouse and ocean stuff as the earth's natural cleaning utility. Like a snake that takes along time to shed its skin. You dig?

I am in the process of figuring out the costs of converting a gas car to electric. Its not cheap.

The best kit that I have found so far is for a Porsche 914. You spend $2-4K on the car, take out the engine, exhaust, gas tank, etc. Then you put in an electric motor (mated to the transmission), batteries, controllers, etc. The kit is $13K and doesnt include the $1000.00 for batteries. Im still gonna do it probably, but its going to hurt my pocketbook for a while.

It will have a range of about 50 miles- which is plenty for most commuters. I will keep the VX for hauling and the weekends and long trips.

Granted, this is a very specialized industry right now. As this becomes more popular to convert to electric (and Im sure it will), and the battery technology gets cheaper and lighter, it will go down in price. But it will take a while and its wont go down that much.

So I think all the gas cars will stick around for a long time until:

1) Gas is too expensive NOT to convert or trade in for an electric vehicle
2) the government bans gas vehicles (yeah, right!)
3) the conversion to electirc or hybrid comes down in price enough that most people can afford it, and it supplants the cost for gas.

The reason I say all this is that its really not an option for most people to convert, as it is pretty expensive and it will require them to provide the maintenance on the vehicle in most cases (until there are garages that work on electric vehicles). With smoking, that required inaction to make it happen, and no money down. Converting to an electric or hybrid car requires action: either buying a new car or converting a gas one. Both of which require time and money.

But I do agree that gas cars will become "unfashionable". Especially the guzzlers like large SUVs and hummers and such. Its going to take a bit longer for that to happen though. Even here in LA where it seems like every other car is a hybrid. I think that right now is when the 50-year clock will start, not the 1970s. So around 2060, most gas vehicles will be phased out.

But like I said, I live in Los Angeles, where everyone talks about that stuff a lot more (or so I am told).

Just my 2 cents, not worth much more. :-)

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Originally Posted by ZEUS

Look on the bright side, the planet will most likely destroy us and then begin to heal.

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You know what they say, "the meek shall inherit the world".

:) Bart

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Originally Posted by creeg

I think that right now is when the 50-year clock will start, not the 1970s. So around 2060, most gas vehicles will be phased out.

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Right, that's EXACTLY my point. 2060 WILL BE TO LATE! I've been thinking about it a lot lately....that I might, and my niece and nephew most likely WILL, see something along the lines of a global societal collapse, and quite possibly some sort of "apocalypse" scenerio.

:) Bart

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Originally Posted by nfpgasmask

Right, that's EXACTLY my point. 2060 WILL BE TO LATE! I've been thinking about it a lot lately....that I might, and my niece and nephew most likely WILL, see something along the lines of a global societal collapse, and quite possibly some sort of "apocalypse" scenerio.

:) Bart

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That is your wishful thinking coming to in to play though! I could definitely see you taking your favorite pair of masks, guns, some ammo, maybe even reloading equipment and stashing it out in the desert some time... or have you done it already? And aren't you trying to import Mad Max's car? :grino:

In 2030, there will be Mad Bart and the solar powered Nisuzu VXterra hybrid, hunting rabbits in the Nevada promiseland which people die trying to get to. And I will be wearing a fake whip cream bikini, riding a stolen horse in the 100,000 densely populated Wyoming wasteland, still looking for some hot chick I've never met... and if I was to find her, you and I would both be completely happy! :laugho:

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Originally Posted by ZEUS

That is your wishful thinking coming to in to play though! I could definitely see you taking your favorite pair of masks, guns, some ammo, maybe even reloading equipment and stashing it out in the desert some time... or have you done it already? And aren't you trying to import Mad Max's car? :grino:

In 2030, there will be Mad Bart and the solar powered Nisuzu VXterra hybrid, hunting rabbits in the Nevada promiseland which people die trying to get to. And I will be wearing a fake whip cream bikini, riding a stolen horse in the 100,000 densely populated Wyoming wasteland, still looking for some hot chick I've never met... and if I was to find her, you and I would both be completely happy! :laugho:

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Oh trust me dude, I know my "fantasy" of what I want the apocalypse to be is vastly different than what it will be. Yesterday, I posted a review of Idiocracy on my LJ, basically saying the same thing:

http://nfpgasmask.livejournal.com

:( Bart

PS - And yes, my Falcon is getting done, and it looks like I will have it within the next 3-4 months. Too bad gas will be appropriately expensive when it gets here. I will probably be sopping juice up off the road with a rag really soon.

You're buying the Global Warming thing, lock, stock and barrel? Your (as a species) CO2 output, all activities included, is around 3 or 4 percent of the total....marginally insignificant by itself. A big part of that 4 percent is coal...your car just really doesn't figure into the scheme in a huge way. What has been done, that really impacts stuff, is strip away the forests. They (and the ocean) are our carbon sinks. Yeah, it's gettin' warmer, but it's not your car that is doing it....it's strip malls, and farms in Brazil.....it's the Teak table in your dining room, and your Rosewood bed. I am a radical greenie....and I love all things automotive. Do we need something else to burn? Yes, and for a lot of good reasons, but warming ain't one of them. Wanna save the earth and it's marvelous, wondrous diversity of life???? Plant a tree a day, and shoot three of the next five people you meet, right between the eyes. Actually, getting the humans out of the tropics altogether would be much more productive, and just as likely to happen.
It's all short term anyway....it seems that when the salinity of the Arctic Ocean and North Sea drops low enough, the Gulf Stream stops streaming, all of Europe enters an ice age overnight (literally) and the warming problem is solved:) Earth... 1.....clever hairless ape...0 Thank You for the rant, Bart:bgwb:

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Originally Posted by ZEUS

And I will be wearing a fake whip cream bikini, riding a stolen horse in the 100,000 densely populated Wyoming wasteland, still looking for some hot chick I've never met... and if I was to find her, you and I would both be completely happy! :laugho:

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Im assuming this is a movie reference, but I dont know what movie.

Im doing the electric car for 3 reasons:

1) dont have to pay for gas
2) minor environmental reasons
3) I get to say that I drive a zero-emissions car that I built.

I totally agree about the coal: an electric car is powered by coal when you get down to it. But if I understand it correctly, the pollution from a coal energy plant is less than from cars: its easier to scrub the exhaust from a coal plant than it is to scrub the tailpipe.

Also, I am not having any kids as a way to reduce pollution and overpopulation. That is probably one of the biggest ways I am reducing pollution: not reproducing.

And I do beleive that global warming is real, based on the evidence provided. sure, I could be mistaken- but then so is a lot of the world.

Chop, I am 100% with you. I know that the climate change issue is only 1 small facet of the gloabal problem, and climate change is just an avalanche effect of ALL of the things rapidly changing on the planet, due to people. Again, this thread, was really just me thinking about how society now "looks down" on smokers, and how I think it will take twice as long for society to "look down" upon people driving gas vehicles, and how it will be too late anyhow. That, and how even if we switched to an alternative source of transportation, how we will be left with MOUNTAINS of "old" gasoline vehicles. :)

Bart

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Originally Posted by Chopper

You're buying the Global Warming thing, lock, stock and barrel? Your (as a species) CO2 output, all activities included, is around 3 or 4 percent of the total....marginally insignificant by itself. A big part of that 4 percent is coal...your car just really doesn't figure into the scheme in a huge way. What has been done, that really impacts stuff, is strip away the forests. They (and the ocean) are our carbon sinks. Yeah, it's gettin' warmer, but it's not your car that is doing it....it's strip malls, and farms in Brazil.....it's the Teak table in your dining room, and your Rosewood bed. I am a radical greenie....and I love all things automotive. Do we need something else to burn? Yes, and for a lot of good reasons, but warming ain't one of them. Wanna save the earth and it's marvelous, wondrous diversity of life???? Plant a tree a day, and shoot three of the next five people you meet, right between the eyes. Actually, getting the humans out of the tropics altogether would be much more productive, and just as likely to happen.
It's all short term anyway....it seems that when the salinity of the Arctic Ocean and North Sea drops low enough, the Gulf Stream stops streaming, all of Europe enters an ice age overnight (literally) and the warming problem is solved:) Earth... 1.....clever hairless ape...0 Thank You for the rant, Bart:bgwb:

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Originally Posted by creeg

Also, I am not having any kids as a way to reduce pollution and overpopulation. That is probably one of the biggest ways I am reducing pollution: not reproducing.

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:_beer:

CHEERS, MATE! HERE, HERE FOR ZERO POPULATION GROWTH.

But I just watched Idiocracy....and this movie almost made me want to go home and make babies with the wife. Just watch the first 10 minutes of it, and you will see what I mean!

;) Bart

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Originally Posted by nfpgasmask

Chop, I am 100% with you. I know that the climate change issue is only 1 small facet of the gloabal problem, and climate change is just an avalanche effect of ALL of the things rapidly changing on the planet, due to people. Again, this thread, was really just me thinking about how society now "looks down" on smokers, and how I think it will take twice as long for society to "look down" upon people driving gas vehicles, and how it will be too late anyhow. That, and how even if we switched to an alternative source of transportation, how we will be left with MOUNTAINS of "old" gasoline vehicles. :)

Bart

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Volcanoes do a bunch more than humans, that is really where most of it comes from. As for the carcasses.....ultimately, they'll mine them....like the dumps.

Civilization was stagnant for thousands of years. Man invented the wheel and built a cart and pulled it behind a horse. Thus the invention of transportation.
No one invented anything new for a very long time.
When the alien space ship crashed in Roswell, Nevada, the US government got all the current techonology from that ship to bring civilization to what it is today.
I am sure that we will find a way to invent some form of clean and economical transportation before we pollute the earth and run out of oil.
For now I still love to drive my VX.

Global warming and cooling is a natural, cyclic thing...period. It's caused by the Sun's radiation...duration, output level and type of nuclear activity.

But beyond the PC & BS there is no consensus among thousands of scientists that the Earth is experiencing a rise in average global temperature. It's a political agenda thing.

http://opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110008597
http://www.cato.org/pubs/regulation/.../reg15n2g.html
http://www.populartechnology.net/200...l-warming.html
http://theanchoressonline.com/2007/0...lobal-warming/

and hundreds of other articles....

For those of you who are that concerned and want to do your part...cancel Moab. :p

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Originally Posted by nfpgasmask

Chop, I am 100% with you. I know that the climate change issue is only 1 small facet of the gloabal problem, and climate change is just an avalanche effect of ALL of the things rapidly changing on the planet, due to people. Again, this thread, was really just me thinking about how society now "looks down" on smokers, and how I think it will take twice as long for society to "look down" upon people driving gas vehicles, and how it will be too late anyhow. That, and how even if we switched to an alternative source of transportation, how we will be left with MOUNTAINS of "old" gasoline vehicles. :)

Bart

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I think we already do look down on climate criminals. I certainly don't hold a whole lot of respect for this guy: What's wrong with this picture? http://timestreamtech.com/WhatsWrong.jpg
The sign is displaying the weight limit of a parking structure. Only the H3 fits under that limit. Many city streets have the exact same limit. If they actually enforced weight limits on city streets and parking structures, nobody'd be able to drive a Hummer anywhere.

Still, I can't quite make myself feel bad for buying fruit out of season and stuff like that. I'd really like to be able to take a train to places, but out in the west, we just want our cars too much. I'm certainly picking the low-hanging fruit -- I've got a programmable thermostat, CF lightbulbs, etc. But I'm still willing to spend $20 worth of gas to make it up to the mountains.

Is that an air intake for the engine while fording in deep water or a clean air intake for the passenger compartment or did somebody jam a golf club through his roof? :bgwo:

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Originally Posted by navistar

For those of you who are that concerned and want to do your part...cancel Moab. :p

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BLASPHEMY !...don't you blaspheme in here...:razzgray:

Well, this thread turned out to be as interesting as I thought it would be.

We are all very opinionated about what we think is happening. I'm sure there were similar conversations just like this one, about smoking. Take the below quotes, and change them a bit...

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Originally Posted by Chopper

You're buying the smoking causes lung cancer thing, lock, stock and barrel?

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Originally Posted by creeg

Im quitting smoking for 3 reasons:
1) dont have to pay for cigarettes
2) minor health issues
3) I get to say that I kicked that dirty habit.

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Originally Posted by Mark B

I am sure that we will find a way to make smoking safe before we all die from lung cancer. For now I still love to toke my Reds.

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Originally Posted by navistar

Lung cancer and heart attacks are hereditary, a genetic thing...period.

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And finally, me:

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Originally Posted by nfpgasmask

:_beer:

CHEERS, MATE! HERE, HERE FOR SMOKE FREE RESTAURANTS!

But I just watched Thank You For Smoking....and this movie almost made me want to go to the store and buy a carton of Luckys. Just watch the first 10 minutes of it, and you will see what I mean!

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So, you see what I am getting at here. This thread perfectly illustrates what I was originally writing about. I know this was a really odd thread, and probably both pointless and stupid, but...

I don't know what is true. I don't really know if smoking causes lung cancer or if greenhouse gasses really do cause climate change. But what I DO KNOW, is that there are consequences to human activity, and I don't think we as a species have the brain power, or the collective will to fix it before its to late.

:) Bart

Go Bart!:clap:

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Originally Posted by nfpgasmask

there are consequences to human activity

:) Bart

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Ever wondered why? That is a deep thought right there.

Maybe there's something humanly profound in this quote I once saw.

"When I read about the dangers of smoking, it scared me so bad, I stopped reading."

Oh...and another one:

"Anyone can stop smoking...it takes a real man to die of lung cancer!"

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Originally Posted by navistar

Maybe there's something humanly profound in this quote I once saw.

"When I read about the dangers of smoking, it scared me so bad, I stopped reading."

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Absolutely. This cuts right to the core of a very important, and detrimental aspect of human behavior. That is, that we would rather ignore problems until they individually smack us in the face. Ignorance is bliss. We have become a creature of convenience, and we don't like change either. And because of that, we simply won't change, until the loaded gun is pointing at our heads. And 9 times out of 10, that loaded gun has to blast away dollars for anything to happen.

Think about, if you got charged by the pound for every bag of trash you threw out that was not separated into recyclable piles, wouldn't you recycle? Its simple. Change will only take place when it impacts people's bottom line.

Bart

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Originally Posted by Griffin

Ever wondered why? That is a deep thought right there.

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Yes, all the time. What is it about people that make us so off balance? Is it our "intelligence"? Is it because we are really aliens? Who knows, but despite the fact that we are only a few evolutionary steps away from a chimp, there is still something vastly different about us that changed us into the one animal that cannot coexist in harmony with the rest of life on Earth, let alone each other.

Bart

Well I continue to ignore a problem that constantly smakes me in the face. My VX only gets 19 miles per gallon!!! And I'm not going to change!!!

On a Mudvayne CD, there is a sound bite of a scientist describing humans. His theory suggests a group of apes started eating the nearby mushrooms as part of their standard diet... yes the GOOD mushrooms. This altered their primitive mind state... and this clan of hippie apes evolved into something like cavemen and eventually humans... then of course humans split into races - and the native Americans will tell you, white man is to blame for all the troubles we deal with now. As crazy as we are, that theory actually makes sense to me! :)

Maybe someday I can drive my Vehicross to the top of Eska Falls, set up camp, and smoke my cigarette IN JANUARY! I can't wait, so please everyone, I beg you.... Support Global Warming!!! ;) ;) :D

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Originally Posted by ZEUS

On a Mudvayne CD, there is a sound bite of a scientist describing humans. His theory suggests a group of apes started eating the nearby mushrooms as part of their standard diet... yes the GOOD mushrooms. This altered their primitive mind state... and this clan of hippie apes evolved into something like cavemen and eventually humans... then of course humans split into races - and the native Americans will tell you, white man is to blame for all the troubles we deal with now. As crazy as we are, that theory actually makes sense to me! :)

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Hmmm, it would be curious to find out where that sample originated from. It most certainly could explain our leap from apes to humans.

Bart

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Originally Posted by navistar

Well I continue to ignore a problem that constantly smakes me in the face. My VX only gets 19 miles per gallon!!! And I'm not going to change!!!

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I think that goes for the lot of us! ;)

Bart

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Originally Posted by nfpgasmask

Hmmm, it would be curious to find out where that sample originated from. It most certainly could explain our leap from apes to humans.

Bart

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Out in my horse pasture:bgwo::bgwo:

Chew on this... only seals, walrus, dolphins, whales....and humans..have a layer of fat over their entire bodies. You cute aquatic apes you. Stop thinking chimpanzee. Our family is not what you believe.

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Originally Posted by navistar

Is that an air intake for the engine while fording in deep water or a clean air intake for the passenger compartment or did somebody jam a golf club through his roof? :bgwo:

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:bwgy: That's a light fixture attached to the far wall of the parking structure. Just over the wall IS a golf course, though, so I suppose the golf club is possible.


Anyway, as for cancelling Moab? I've probably got my math screwed up, but I see no problem with taking a vacation. That's something that happens, only a few times a year.

I'm under the impression that I'm doing worse things to the environment by driving a mostly-empty car all the way to work and back every weekday. Getting a more efficient daily-driver should let you be more wasteful on the weekends, right?