Isuzu Lawsuit...

Well its been a while since I've posted, mostly because I've thought about letting my VX go. But recently a girl hit me andso my VX that was already damaged and looking bad was fixed like new. And now since shes paid off I love her again. So I'm back to trying to fix all the issues that have come up over the past 5 years.

Windows. Twice in the past I've had it to the dealer to have them fixed but each time the fix fails after a few months. The bastards wanted me to pay the third time I brought it in to get them fixed only to fail again. For about the last year my motor in the driver side door is dead, so in order for me to put the window up and down I had to remove the motor, and now I put it up down and keep it in place by wedging it in. Its time to fix it. so I have two questions.

#1. Anyone know where I can get my hands on a new or used motor, regulator I think its called, and the price and part number

#2 Has anyone thought about doing a classaction lawsuit agaisnt isuzu for this issue. I thought about suing them directly with just myself but didn't know how far I'd get.

Just curious about the lawsuit, but I am ready to sue, because this is F'in ridiculous.

Any help or input would be cool.

TTYl

I have something wrong with my passenger window too. I don't remember anything wrong when I bought it, but then again I may have just forgot to check it. Any ideas what a new regulator runs or if it can be replaced with something a little less crappy?

You must be new to Vx, or just been one of the lucky ones who hasn't quite run into th problem yet. Its not the regulator thats crappy, the reason that it craps out is because it has to overwork itself to push agaisnt the resistance from the windows being out of alignment. Its kinda like when hold a drill by the chuck and stall it out, same principle.
I think I'm going to run the issue by a lawyer this week and see what they say, cause this is getting pretty old. I wish that I didn't love the car as much as I did, but like all of us that are lucky enough to have a Vx, I can't part with her.

Well like everything else man made it's built to fail to keep consumers buying more,nuttin you can do but live with it or fix it or stop buying other mens creations and make your own. :argue:

The reason the windows go out of aligment is rubber only. If you look at other car window tracks they have a felt coating so the windows don't bind up. When your VX was new the rubber was new and had a smooth surface. After much use rubber and glass tend to stick to each other. If there was a replacement window track with a felt coating there would be no problem with the windows going up & down

the problem with my windows were not because teh rubber was binding, it was the railing was alittle bent. just take apart the door and bend the metal rail so the top of the window doesnt tilt out. or if ur lazy (like i was for a year) just psh the windows toward teh back of teh car while its closing.

The bending problem probably stems from wore out sticky rubber that was not lubed with silicon spray and with continued use and binding the end result is pooped out mechanical stuff.when i bought my vx the windows barely worked and they did the tilting foward thing and i sprayed them with the sily spray and have done so since and had absolutely zero problems. :p

When Joe Black and I had the door panel off my Proton (to try out the permanent window fix prototype), it was pretty obvious that the bracket that holds the window to the vertical glide lost contact as the window pushed upward - the temporary fix is to "tighten" the bracket by placing a stack of washers under the bolts that attach the glide to the door, pushing it out. The additional tension prevents the bracket from losing contact so the widow goes upward as designed.

Joe's permanent fix is a replacement bracket that has extended/reinforced "fingers" on either side of the glide, so it doesn't have the opportunity to flex out as the window travels upward. The design flaw is in the curvature of the vertical glide - it bows out in the middle due to the shape of the door - instead of designing new brackets, Isuzu reused off-the-shelf components, so with time they wear out. The new bracket should fix the issue with most having window problems. It won't fix windows that have progressed further (once the rubber has split or the side-glides are mangled, or the regulator is shot, additional work will need to be done).

-- John

This may be my silly European mind but just what would a class-action lawsuit achieve? Its a sure way to stop a company considering importing any other interesting, low volume vehicles that you may want to buy.

Supposedly MkII MR-2s have the same issue btw...

A

Class action lawsuits are effective in "slapping the wrists" of corporate giants who have obviously affected the health and well being of hundreds of thousands of consumers. The problems with most attempts are: 1. Generally, the attorneys aren't interested in handling a class action suit unless there is huge material gain for themselves (usually in excess of 1 million in fees); 2. Enough consumers are affected that there is easy proof to tort (hundreds if not thousands of testimonials by experts evaluating the situation); 3. The case can be brought before a judge in a timely manner (the longer it stretches out the higher the fees - it can aid or detract from #1 above); 4. Real harm to consumers - almost all cases involve some type of harm to those that purchased. There are many other factors but these 4 cover the basics.

I hear "let's get a class action suit" all the time, and in almost every case it doesn't make sense to do so. People don't understand what the suit really is - you hear about class-action suits against tobacco companies, occasionally auto manufacturers when it's proven that a design flaw has killed many consumers (like a failed safety part), when people actually get hurt as a result of the flaw. With the VX, there are less than 5000 made - it's just not enough to warrant a class-action suit for the problem (what attorney would spend possibly years litigating something like that?).

Something else to think about - have you ever seen the reward for class action suits? Most recipients of a judgement get a check for a tiny amount, like a dollar or a few pennies. The only people that actually benefit are the attorneys who handle the suit. Just my 2 cents.

-- John

Very well written, Johnny - informative, precise and comprehendible! Wow, I think I'll go back and read that again! :p

Thanks for the explanation!

Ursula

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Originally Posted by johnnyapollo

Joe's permanent fix is a replacement bracket that has extended/reinforced "fingers" on either side of the glide, so it doesn't have the opportunity to flex out as the window travels upward. The design flaw is in the curvature of the vertical glide - it bows out in the middle due to the shape of the door - instead of designing new brackets, Isuzu reused off-the-shelf components, so with time they wear out. The new bracket should fix the issue with most having window problems. It won't fix windows that have progressed further (once the rubber has split or the side-glides are mangled, or the regulator is shot, additional work will need to be done).

-- John

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Sounds like a must-have.
Are these (going to be) available for others?

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Originally Posted by WILLY

The bending problem probably stems from wore out sticky rubber that was not lubed with silicon spray and with continued use and binding the end result is pooped out mechanical stuff.when i bought my vx the windows barely worked and they did the tilting foward thing and i sprayed them with the sily spray and have done so since and had absolutely zero problems. :p

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there are numberous threads on here stating that lubing is only a bandaid solution. i for one tried lubing the windows trying to fix the problem, at no avial. once i removed the door panels, it was apparent that my windows tend to shift outwards when closing, causing a gap between the rubber and forcing the window to move outwards, binding the window. by bending the rails i was able to put more pressure on the plastic U mounts which held the window in place.

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Originally Posted by cyronman

Sounds like a must-have.
Are these (going to be) available for others?

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You bet, as soon as I can get 'em finished! ;)

For those seriously considering the class-action or lawsuit angle, just remember that the VehiCROSS is a limited production, hand-built vehicle. I'd bet good money there's a lot of "it ain't gonna be perfect" exclusionary statements that would stop such an endeavor dead in its well-meaning tracks.

The window issue is simply something that wasn't foreseen and likely never encountered in testing, and the only manufacturer solution would be a different guide rail and window carrier. Ultimately, I'd like to look at an Amigo window regulator assembly to see how close it is proportionately to the VX unit. Something like that would be a rather intimidating fix for most though, even if pre-packaged as a mod kit.

J. Apollo, well written, thank you. So, what we need is a attorney(s) that own's a VX's in the group that have made their money and would enjoy taking Isuzu on, I'd carry their briefcase.

Okay, Joe Black, please consider me first in line for your window fix!

See the guy waving the handful of dollar bills? That's me!

:)

Makes sense what was said about the class action being no good in this case. Not enough of a menace to not enough people to warrant it. I have however though heard of people going after the auto maker individualy, and a lot times winning. With the snow storm I haven't had a good chance to talk to my friends that are lawyers yet, hopefully be able to get to that by the end of the week.
This brings me to my problem still. I still have a blown regualtor with no idea what the part number is or even where to go about getting one. Anyone know this info? Also what is the price on a part like that, I heard that they are expensive.
Hopefully if the weather clears in the next day or two here I'll try lubing the pass window which is the only one still working and see how that goes. As for the driver, its still up and down by hand till I get the part.

Lastly, what is the official concensus here on the best long term fix, I've many, shim this, bend that, but what is the easy and longest lasting way to fix it so it doesn't come up again?

Thanks for the great input by everyone by the way. If I didn't love my girl I wouldn't be here, and know that goes for the rest of you.

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Originally Posted by Thejerseyfish

Lastly, what is the official concensus here on the best long term fix, I've many, shim this, bend that, but what is the easy and longest lasting way to fix it so it doesn't come up again?

Thanks for the great input by everyone by the way. If I didn't love my girl I wouldn't be here, and know that goes for the rest of you.

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Well, I'll throw out my 2 cents again.

My shimmed window lift still works like a charm.

All the 3m silicone spray in the world, will not put the lifting arm back under the glass. Although it does help keep the rubber from sticking.

My repair cost less than $10.

If your window pushes outward from the door, it needs to be shimmed before the window tabs break!!!! And they will not take the stress.

If your window tilts down in front, the Window needs to be positioned more to the REAR. That is why someone said you can just push the window rearward as it goes up or down. Just remember to pull your fingers out before they get pinched.

How you go about moving the glass rearward could be done many ways.
I chose to slot the 4 holes that hold the lift arm assembly.

Anyone who wants to stop by and see how well my windows work, feel invited.
I'll even pull the panel so you can see for yourself why I made the adjustments that I did, and how simple it is to do.

If you would like me to help walk you through it, just schedule a time to meet.

I myself would not have tried until I read every post I could find about the window problem, and doing so gave me the clues of where to look. That is what makes forums like this so wonderful.

Lastly, Does anyone have a window that tilts down in the back, or one that pushes itself inside the car???? NO???? Well this should cover the window problem for All that still have a working motor. Only saying that these two adjustments will fix ALL the window problems that I have read about.

Is it permement? I have had no promblems or readjustment since.

Is this the "official concensus", NO. But that is why they are called forums.

My widow had a broken rear tab and the front tab had it's brass theads pulled out. I fixed the front one by pushing the brass piece back in and using a longer bolt so a nylock nut could be added on the other side. The rear one I glued together with an Epoxy and encasing the tab with enough Epoxy to hold the tab together on all sides. If this tab breaks in the future, I will replace it with the GM window tab.

I am in agreement with bulldoggie, i have fixed my windows with the fixes found here on the forum.....the drilling out, the washers,the bending track and mount, and the silicone. windows work like a charm, like they should. BUT after the start of this cold snap, my driverside started messing up, so i took the panel off to see what was up, and the "glue" that holds the windows to the tabs had failed. DONT PANIC!!! i just razor bladed the factory glue off the window, (it all stuck to the window, and not the tabs) and epoxied the window back to the tabs, now im back to perfectly working windows.
i still have the split rubber that i need to replace at some point, but my windows work very well, and no water comes in, so hey, im happy.
I too invite, or welcome anyone to get ahold of me, and i will help fix, or walk thru the process to get yours working again also. always glad to help.
david

I think the fix you need depends on how far the deterioration has gone. When it starts to drag, the "stack of washer" fix is the easiest and most effective to do - the next level is probably the bent back guide, then the slotted screw holes and finally, if the mount is peeling off the glass, a re-attachment. It can get to the point where the mount actually breaks off from the glass and will need to be replaced, or the regulator fails due to the excessive drag from the slipping window. You'll need to examine and try to simplest fixes first, then move on to the more extensive as needed.

-- John

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Originally Posted by johnnyapollo

I think the fix you need depends on how far the deterioration has gone. You'll need to examine and try to simplest fixes first, then move on to the more extensive as needed.

-- John

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I agree, part of the exam is to unbolt the glass from the lift arm.

Question#1 Is the glass still resting on the lift arm? The arm should be able to lift the window without the bolts. The bolts are for pulling the glass down and to keep the glass centered.

Question#2 When you push the glass to the rear, do the lift arm bolt holes still line up with the window tab holes? The rear guide and the rear edge of the glass, is your guide to where the glass belongs.

You only have to adjust if your answer is No to either question.

Class action suit would not work in this case as previously stated. Sure it fits the criteria but it just is simply not worth it.

I am a law school student. My dad and grandfather have been practicing well over 60 years combined.


David, I still need to meet you sometime soon, maybe when it warms up. I need some window help.

Got a question for all though, is it me or does it seem like it is always the passenger side that fails first?

JRH

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Originally Posted by JHarris1385

Got a question for all though, is it me or does it seem like it is always the passenger side that fails first?

JRH

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I think it has more to do with which door pull has been slammed the most.

The door pull handle, pulls the lift regulator away from the glass. That is why they all worked in the showroom. It is also the reason for the small cracks in the door panels near the lock buttons in the top rear, others have seen.

Once you have pulled your panel, look at the 4 lift bolts, and look at the holes for the armrest/door pull. It is the weakest part of the door. Just pull on that part of the door and see how much it moves. These two functions should not share the same flimsy strip of metal. I hope Joe Black is looking at this point in his repair.

It might be a good idea to to rename this thread (at least add window woes to the title) just for future reference.
Unless it's nothing new here.

yes? no?
no big deal?

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Originally Posted by cyronman

It might be a good idea to to rename this thread (at least add window woes to the title) just for future reference.
Unless it's nothing new here.

yes? no?
no big deal?

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Not new but it is spread out over many threads.
I'm sorry if this one has been Highjacked. I just want to help share what I've seen.

I would like it if it was put into something like Tone's VX manual.

I know I showed the west Portland dealer (B&G Buick) over 85 pages on this topic, and that was before I fixed mine.