Arrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggg!

:mad: :madb: :madp: :mado: :madr2: :mady: :upsetgray :madg: :madp2: :madg2: :mad:

I dropped my Creative Zen Micro Photo this morning and now it is FUBAR.

$200 down the drain.

So I am in the market for a new MP3 player, any suggestions welcome.

Here is my criteria:

1) NO I-POD
2) CAPACITY of at least 4 gig
3) DURABLE

I really liked the Creative player, but it had 2 major problems. Firstly, this particular unit has virtually NO available accessories, and this contributed to its ultimate demise (no rubber protective pouch to hold it in). Also, it suffered from a bad connection in the head phone jack, which I found out today is a very common problem with the Creative devices. So I don't plan to buy another Creative MP3 player, I'd like to try something else, but we'll see.

I don't really mind the I-POD as a device, but I absolutely refuse to let I-Tunes penetrate even 1 byte of hard drive space on my computer. So I-Pods are out, and don't try to convince me otherwise unless you have found some rock solid, free, 3rd party software that lets me use an I-Pod with no I-Tunes whatsoever.

Yes, I'm angry at the moment.

Bart

Bart

what do you (or anyone else) think of those new Zunes?

-cy

I say Iriver. No its not ipod cousin and friend always calls it and ipod and it pisses me off. I lvoe it 20 gig. uses windows media file which is super easy. get windows media 10 andrip cd and plug mp3 player up and sync it to mp3 player and whola ur done. I have droped this thing quite a bit. It comes with a "condom" i dunno just what someone told me it was so I am going with it. Its a rubber pouch that incases mp3 player. It has fm transmitter (which is reason I bought over ipod for whne I ride my bike) you can record the radio and listen to it later. You can also record voice as well if you wanted.

http://www.iriver.com/html/campaign/h10/cah0_index.asp

This isnt exact one I have I guess they trying to go up with ipod with the whoel picture. but mine cost me about 299 or less @ bestbuy. Sorry its been soo long.


The wheel in middle is like ipods scroll wheel. U run ur finger up and down it to move through list. U however dont press it to enter menu u press right button under screen to move forward and left to move in reverse.





EDIT: Iriver has other sizes and alot of thiers comes with fm tuner so I guess just check it out.


Oh and zunes is a microsoft thing. I guess they want thier hands in everything LOL

I haven't heard of Zunes, I will look them up.

Thanks, Bart

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cyronman

Bart

what do you (or anyone else) think of those new Zunes?

-cy

---

Well, I guess I left out the little fact that I have 260 GIGs of MP3s already ripped to my hard drive, and I also loathe Windows Media Player. And if the player wants to convert my MP3s to some other format, that is no good either. What I need is Plug in device, device pops up in Explorer, drag MP3s to device, unplug device, play MP3s.

Its seems however that this is asking too much of most of the devices out there.

I may be stuck buying another Creative player in the long run, but...

Bart

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dumke52

I say Iriver. No its not ipod cousin and friend always calls it and ipod and it pisses me off. I lvoe it 20 gig. uses windows media file which is super easy. get windows media 10 andrip cd and plug mp3 player up and sync it to mp3 player and whola ur done. I have droped this thing quite a bit. It comes with a "condom" i dunno just what someone told me it was so I am going with it. Its a rubber pouch that incases mp3 player. It has fm transmitter (which is reason I bought over ipod for whne I ride my bike) you can record the radio and listen to it later. You can also record voice as well if you wanted.

http://www.iriver.com/html/campaign/h10/cah0_index.asp

This isnt exact one I have I guess they trying to go up with ipod with the whoel picture. but mine cost me about 299 or less @ bestbuy. Sorry its been soo long.


The wheel in middle is like ipods scroll wheel. U run ur finger up and down it to move through list. U however dont press it to enter menu u press right button under screen to move forward and left to move in reverse.





EDIT: Iriver has other sizes and alot of thiers comes with fm tuner so I guess just check it out.

---

I just bought a couple of iPods for my Windows friends, At first I heard all the complants about iTunes vs. jukebox ect...
But the new generation of iPod Nano's, come in 2, 4, & 8gigs. More scratch resistant than ever, stonger case, picture slideshows to any playlist, unlimited playlist combinations of the songs loaded, auto syncing with address book and your choice of playlists, and more....

My PC friends have stopped complaining, and keep asking me to get them more for theirn friends and family. One in peticular, after seeing my friends, dosen't have a PC to load, he just bought it already loaded with my friends songs, and uses a radio to charge it, So my friend went without one till I made my next trip to town.

Short of a blackberry, there is NOTHING COOLER than a new Nano!

iTunes lets you import mp3 as well as acc. it lets you burn your entire library, if you want, across multiple discs,(if neccissary). Mp3 music CDs, Aiff music CDs, Mp3 DVDs, Data DVDs or CDs = all your music on 1 or 2 DVDs, that can be read on ANY computer.

You can turn off the links to the music store if you choose.

And yes, there are third party software / freeware, that allows plenty of features and plug-ins to do most anything with your iPod.

There is a reason that they are #1.

so what does fubar mean? i was just thinking it about your post when my boss came in and dropped some plans on my desk and said FUBAR!!! (but seemed happy enough..)

ive got a Rio that im very happy with, mine is 1.5 gigs but i know they make a 4gig version now.. ive had mine for about 4 years.. dropped it out of my vx at least 10 times.. its been landed on by pool balls.. stepped on.. still works great

F'd
up
beyond
all
recognition

Bart,

You would likely be pretty happy with a lot of "generic" mp3 players if you shop for features rather than name brands. I used to have an iRiver MP3/CD Player that was GREAT and I wouldn't hesitate to purchase another iRiver product (if I were in the market) because they tend to offer more whiz-bang features for your hard earned dollar. They are based out of Korea.

Now I have a Rio "Cali" and what you describe is exactly how I use it. I never use the bundled software, and have never really decided on a player for my PC - what i need is quick and dirty drag and drop capability from windows explorer and NO DRM. The "Cali" model is pretty durable - I wouldn't hesitate to drop it two stories onto concrete and I suspect it would suffer little more than a cosmetic ding - try THAT with a iPod.

The biggest thing that sold me on the Cali is that it has an SD Card reader, so i never have to worry about filling it up - I just keep a handful of cards around with different selections of music - and you can use a variety of readers to drop music on the card so you don't even have to plug in your MP3 player to organize your music collection.

The only thing better than an MP3 player with an SD slot, IMO, MIGHT be an MP3 player with a big hard drive built in, but it would never be as durable as my Cali, and it would cost A LOT more. I got mine at Best Buy about 2 years ago for about $120.

Hmmm, this Rio sounds interesting. Personally, If I could get away with NO SOFTWARE AT ALL, I would be extatic. I hate the fact that most these devices are really nothing more than a stick of memory or a hard drive, and yet you STILL need to load some idiotic software to organize and "synch" your music. Plug in just about any portable flash memory or hard drive into a PC, and Windows can handle it. Why can't MP3 players do the same thing? The only software needed should be MP3 decoding software on the device itself!!! I don't need to "synch" anything. I am not an idiot and I don't need software to tell me where my music is stored and how it is organized.

And yes, DRM is my MAIN concern when it comes to iTunes and Windows Media Player. DRM is FUBAR, and it will probably keep me from ever upgrading beyond XP, if the things I am hearing about Vista are true. I might just end up becoming a Linux nazi if things keep going the way they are going. But then again, everything gets cracked eventually ;)

Anyway, back to MP3 players. My wife has a little Creative 1 GIG player, and it works EXACTLY the way it should, no software needed. I just want a device like this that has at least 4 GIG of space (that isn't pink like hers either). I would prefer something with at least 8 GIG, but I would settle for 4. I think I have seen 2 GIG SD cards...I wonder if there are ones that are even bigger?

I'm gonna look into this Rio thing.

Thanks - Bart

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kpaske

Bart,

You would likely be pretty happy with a lot of "generic" mp3 players if you shop for features rather than name brands. I used to have an iRiver MP3/CD Player that was GREAT and I wouldn't hesitate to purchase another iRiver product (if I were in the market) because they tend to offer more whiz-bang features for your hard earned dollar. They are based out of Korea.

Now I have a Rio "Cali" and what you describe is exactly how I use it. I never use the bundled software, and have never really decided on a player for my PC - what i need is quick and dirty drag and drop capability from windows explorer and NO DRM. The "Cali" model is pretty durable - I wouldn't hesitate to drop it two stories onto concrete and I suspect it would suffer little more than a cosmetic ding - try THAT with a iPod.

The biggest thing that sold me on the Cali is that it has an SD Card reader, so i never have to worry about filling it up - I just keep a handful of cards around with different selections of music - and you can use a variety of readers to drop music on the card so you don't even have to plug in your MP3 player to organize your music collection.

The only thing better than an MP3 player with an SD slot, IMO, MIGHT be an MP3 player with a big hard drive built in, but it would never be as durable as my Cali, and it would cost A LOT more. I got mine at Best Buy about 2 years ago for about $120.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cyronman

F'd
up
beyond
all
recognition

---

Yeah, its kinda like SNAFU:

Situation
Normal
All
F'ed
Up

:) I believe these are old military anacronyms. Just like Radar and Laser.

Bart

Bulldoggie,

Even with the 3rd party software, don't you still need to load iTunes? And I know they technically work with MP3s, but doesn't iTunes have all sorts of DRM cr@p built into it? And doesn't iTunes convert your MP3s into some proprietary format? Like I said, I don't have a problem with the devices themselves, its the way they interface with the PC that I can't stand. And I bet the GOOD 3rd party software for iPods sure isn't free.

The other thing is, I want a MP3 player, not a photo viewer, movie player, address book, cell phone, toaster, microwave, or any of the other gadgets they are trying to pack into a single device. Its just not necessary imho. I like portable music, plain and simple.

I think we are simply on different wavelengths when it comes to MP3 players, or in your case, PDAs. I hate Palm Pilots and I REALLY hate Blackberrys. Talk about unnecessary. The last thing I need is another leash connecting me to work.

Bart

PS - If I give in to an iPod, I might as well sell my VX and get a Jeep while I'm at it! lol :eek:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bulldoggie

I just bought a couple of iPods for my Windows friends, At first I heard all the complants about iTunes vs. jukebox ect...
But the new generation of iPod Nano's, come in 2, 4, & 8gigs. More scratch resistant than ever, stonger case, picture slideshows to any playlist, unlimited playlist combinations of the songs loaded, auto syncing with address book and your choice of playlists, and more....

My PC friends have stopped complaining, and keep asking me to get them more for theirn friends and family. One in peticular, after seeing my friends, dosen't have a PC to load, he just bought it already loaded with my friends songs, and uses a radio to charge it, So my friend went without one till I made my next trip to town.

Short of a blackberry, there is NOTHING COOLER than a new Nano!

iTunes lets you import mp3 as well as acc. it lets you burn your entire library, if you want, across multiple discs,(if neccissary). Mp3 music CDs, Aiff music CDs, Mp3 DVDs, Data DVDs or CDs = all your music on 1 or 2 DVDs, that can be read on ANY computer.

You can turn off the links to the music store if you choose.

And yes, there are third party software / freeware, that allows plenty of features and plug-ins to do most anything with your iPod.

There is a reason that they are #1.

---

If you import your music as mp3's they stay mp3's.

The defalt import format is ACC but you get to choose. Unless you bought your tunes from the iTunes store, then they are ACC. You just have to burn your ACC files as AIFF(standard CD audio), then reimport them as mp3's.
The new Nano's are the smallest most portable up to 8gig for $239.
My PC friends first got hooked, when I visited them and in seconds hooked into there stereo's
Like you, I want a music player to play music, a cell phone to make calls on the road, and a real digital camera to take pictures.
I don't own a blackberry, but even my daughters have Nanos, but they were the older plastic nano's for less than $80.
iTunes shows a graph of what is loaded on you iPod, so you don't have to guess how much free space is left, and pictures are thumbnail size, along with contacts ect... is only a pencil thin line on the bar graph. it still holds over 2,000 songs, and the battery life is now over 20 hours. the quality, touch, and feel can't be beat, I do like playing the slideshow of my favorite vacation pictures to the music that I love, but you can just display album art with the song and artist info if you prefer. I shuffel my playlists so I never know what is coming up next.
My advice is to go to an Apple store and let them demo one for you. They can demo the software too.
And there is a large amount of freeware these days, I don't like to pay if I don't have to, and to top it off, Apples web site, has links to third party software.
I did give my friends Data DVD's of my entire library, but they still complain that they have to click and play a little of each song to import them from Data discs, WOW that sounds so painful, they don't even have to type one word.

OK, so, is there an option, out of the box (and with the help of some 3rd party software), that would allow me to use my existing 260 GIG of MP3 files, without ANY type of conversion or re-ripping, and without EVER installing iTunes, on an iPod?

Bart

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bulldoggie

If you import your music as mp3's they stay mp3's.

The defalt import format is ACC but you get to choose. Unless you bought your tunes from the iTunes store, then they are ACC. You just have to burn your ACC files as AIFF(standard CD audio), then reimport them as mp3's.
The new Nano's are the smallest most portable up to 8gig for $239.
My PC friends first got hooked, when I visited them and in seconds hooked into there stereo's
Like you, I want a music player to play music, a cell phone to make calls on the road, and a real digital camera to take pictures.
I don't own a blackberry, but even my daughters have Nanos, but they were the older plastic nano's for less than $80.
iTunes shows a graph of what is loaded on you iPod, so you don't have to guess how much free space is left, and pictures are thumbnail size, along with contacts ect... is only a pencil thin line on the bar graph. it still holds over 2,000 songs, and the battery life is now over 20 hours. the quality, touch, and feel can't be beat, I do like playing the slideshow of my favorite vacation pictures to the music that I love, but you can just display album art with the song and artist info if you prefer. I shuffel my playlists so I never know what is coming up next.
My advice is to go to an Apple store and let them demo one for you. They can demo the software too.
And there is a large amount of freeware these days, I don't like to pay if I don't have to, and to top it off, Apples web site, has links to third party software.

---

You do have to install iTunes to manage the music library on your PC.

The iPods have to be formatted for PC or Mac format (just like old floppies did).

You do NOT have to re-rip or ?

When you install iTunes it will ask you if you want it to look for music files on your computer, select yes and they will be automatically added.

It will ask if you want it to check, (balance) the sound levels of your files, and it will ask if you want Gapless added to your sound files(before and after silence removed).

It will ask if you want it to download album art if you want it to, You can look for artwork on the net and paste it into your files manually if you like.

Print this up and ask them to demo these features at an Apple store, if you have any doubts or questions.

When you have iTunes on your computer you can hook it up to your home stereo and have an awesome jukebox or listen to your music as you surf, I do. I also use it as my alarm clock

The Zune is Microsofts "Ipod Killer".

Any MP3 player that comes in brown, and runs Mircosoft software, no freakin way.

And I build websites for MSFT for a living.

And regarding the DRM (Digital rRghts Management) on Itunes:
Its not that bad, from personal experience.

Zune, on the other hand, has BROKEN DRM on it: if you bought music from the old Mircrosoft music purchasing system (cant remember the name), the DRM does not allow you to transfer your music to the Zune. You have to re-buy the music you already paid for.

I have 2 ipods, and love them. But if you are that set against Itunes, good luck finding anything that has anywhere as nice an interface and is as easy to use.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cyronman

Bart

what do you (or anyone else) think of those new Zunes?

-cy

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cyronman

F'd
up
beyond
all
recognition

---

ahhhh... makes much sense.... these plans were actually 4 plans overlaid on eachother (not on purpose either lol they were definately fubar

i have a question ... i rip my own mp3's using Exact Audio Copier to get very high quality mp3's ... are there players that let you store music in variable bit-rate or higher bit-rate formats? all the units i looked at make you convert/compress to their format, rather than just storing the data as is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bulldoggie

You do have to install iTunes to manage the music library on your PC.

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Thats all I really need to know. No matter what, I don't want iTunes on my machine. I have seen the software and messed around with it several times, and quite honestly, I hate it. I have absolutely no issues managing a rediculous amount of music without it. ID3 tags and all, its done simply and quickly, the way I want it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bulldoggie

It will ask if you want it to check, (balance) the sound levels of your files, and it will ask if you want Gapless added to your sound files(before and after silence removed).

---

Wow, that sounds like iTunes actually modifies your existing files. That's no good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bulldoggie

It will ask if you want it to download album art if you want it to, You can look for artwork on the net and paste it into your files manually if you like.

---

No need for that, I just want the music.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bulldoggie

Print this up and ask them to demo these features at an Apple store, if you have any doubts or questions.

---

No more questions, just doubts. :) I think you helped me understand again, that iTunes is not for me, and thus, neither is the iPod. This is the whole problem with most software today, even alot of the more consumer based MicroSoft stuff. The software wants to "automate" and control everything. I can't stand that. If I am not in complete 100% control of what I want it to do, then I don't want it. This is why I have always hated MACs. I know they have come along way since, but the lack of customizablity and tweak-ability always turned me off. To me, it just seems like everything gets completely dumbed down for people who don't know jack about using computers, which is fine, they need to market and sell, but man is it annoying! PCs have always been the advanced way to go, imo. MACs were like the Speak & Spell and PCs were like the TI-80 Graphing Calculator. I say "were" because I know newer MAC OSes are much more "advanced" than they used to be, but still...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bulldoggie

When you have iTunes on your computer you can hook it up to your home stereo and have an awesome jukebox or listen to your music as you surf, I do. I also use it as my alarm clock

---

My computer is my home stereo, and why do I need iTunes to listen to music on my PC? I use WinAmp with no overhead whatsoever. No DRM. Just an EQ and a Volume slider. Perfect. Playlists, Windows shell integration. I couldn't ask for more.

Thanks for the input though, its good to reaffirm sometimes!

;) Bart

My only chime in here is that my Creative Zen Micro was a POS. I had it for six months and it slowly declined. Never dropped it. All of the sudden my power switch, you know the slider, stopped working. So every time I wanted to turn it on I had to connect it to a computer, because Creative labs would not give me any real assistance for repair, I wasn’t interested in paying 30 dollars for them to just look at it. I am an electronic technician so I asked them to send me a replacement component since the parts were still under the year warranty, and I would fix it myself. NO NO NO is all I got.

I purchased an iPod a couple months ago and like it, I don’t have any issues with itunes. I use mine all day 5 days a week and then at the gym. So we will see if this one lasts longer than the Creative.

Any way, a co-worker bought one that I think is a Dell. I know Toshiba makes some large size hard drive styles. I think their 60 gig was around 150. don’t quote me on that.

I am not interested in the Zune until a few revisions happen because you know the way things work, in 6 months or less there will be new features.

Happy hunting.

Clint

The Creative players don't care if its vbr or 256. I also use Exact Audio Copy and had no issues with the Creative player decoding the files.

Bart

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iamjacksadrenalgland

i have a question ... i rip my own mp3's using Exact Audio Copier to get very high quality mp3's ... are there players that let you store music in variable bit-rate or higher bit-rate formats? all the units i looked at make you convert/compress to their format, rather than just storing the data as is.

---

[QUOTE=creeg]

And regarding the DRM (Digital rRghts Management) on Itunes:
Its not that bad, from personal experience.

QUOTE]

Even if it is no that bad, it is bad. I want NO DRM.

:) Bart

[QUOTE=nfpgasmask]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by creeg

And regarding the DRM (Digital rRghts Management) on Itunes:
Its not that bad, from personal experience.

QUOTE]

Even if it is no that bad, it is bad. I want NO DRM.

:) Bart

---

Only songs puchased from the iTunes store have DRM rules=
I think it is only four computers that you own may make copies of that song.
I think you are limited to 4 or 5 CD (Aiff) copies you can make.
An Aiff music CD of your purchased music, can be re-imported like any other CD you own as mp3 music files.
This is nothing like the "SONY" DRM; it installs nothing in background....
You are not required to buy anything from the iTunes store to use and upgrade the iTunes software.

I have a samsung YH-925 with 20gig capacity, It's cheap, works fine and it has USB on the go which enables you to store foto's from your digital cam on the player without the use of a pc or laptop.(handy if the memory card on your camera is full)
Its the same size as the current Ipod with same cap.

I think I have already suggested mine in the past Bart, but I am still very happy with my Archos AV-420. Although technically its a mp3 player on steroids. Classidfied as a DVR and mine has 20g (although newer ones go to 80 or 100gig I think.) its very good good for playing music, video, and /or using just as a usb drive. Although I dont know if its been corrected or not, but the onboard speaker is VERY weak. So listening though headphones or stereo unit is pretty much a must. As for the durability I dont know, and hope to not find out, I do have a aftermarket nylon case I bought for it that has a plexiglass shield that covers the screen. Also it has a remote control when its being used in the dock as a DVR but I havent ever used it either.

I'm with Bart - all of the current incarnations of DRM are bad. When I buy a CD (or if I ever decide to purchase a track online), I want to be able to listen to that track whenever and however I want. In addition, I'm a HUGE fan of convergent technologies, but I don't need products that assume I'm a complete moron - which is what this latest generation of products (Windows Vista, iPods, etc) does. I want to copy, convert and organize my music the way I want it, and I want a CHOICE of software to use, commercial and freeware. I want to try them all and then decide which one works best for ME.

I have an SD card that holds 4GB, and it cost me about $60 on sale. I think the Rio Cali may be limited to 1GB cards, or at least it was when I bought mine a couple of years ago. Newer models or similar models may no longer have that limit but I don't know for sure.

I haven't ever messed with the iPod or Zune or any of these newer devices for the reasons stated above. Every inexpensive MP3 player I've ever played with would operate the way you need it to - if you don't install the software that comes with it, the device will STILL be recognized by Windows XP as a "generic usb drive" and it will be given a drive letter just like a thumbdrive. That's why I say you should just look for one with the features you want - SD slot, long battery life, desired formats (MP3, WMA, ACC, OGG, etc), equalizer, etc. Once you find one you like you can always go down to best buy or circuit city or whatever and have them plug it into a computer right in front of you without installing any software to prove that it will work that way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by creeg

I have 2 ipods, and love them. But if you are that set against Itunes,

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by creeg

good luck finding anything that has anywhere as nice an interface and is as easy to use.

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I can't say it any better than this

wat is acutally wrong wiht the player....cause it might just be a dead hd...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bulldoggie

I can't say it any better than this

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Well, once again, it has nothing to do with the device itself. I think they are nice looking, and I like the ease of navigation on them as well. Plus, the load of accessories available is also quite nice...

Bart

bart!! www.woot.com
thers a 5 gig rio like what i have for 80 bucks... for about the next 15 min!

Looks like a deal! But, I tend to stay away from "refurbished".

I think I am going to do a little more research before I settle on something.

Thanks though.

Bart

Quote:

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Originally Posted by etlsport

bart!! www.woot.com
thers a 5 gig rio like what i have for 80 bucks... for about the next 15 min!

---

haha shame.. i ended up buying one.. i see them in stores for 200+ and well.. yeah.. if youve ever seen the setup in my VX you know i have very little will power when it comes to electronics/audio.. good luck with your search though

Yeah, money is an issue right now, which is another reason why I didn't jump at it. Its also why I am so pissed about breaking my Zen. After those new tires and rims, I am kinda broke for a while. :)

Bart

Quote:

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Originally Posted by etlsport

haha shame.. i ended up buying one.. i see them in stores for 200+ and well.. yeah.. if youve ever seen the setup in my VX you know i have very little will power when it comes to electronics/audio.. good luck with your search though

---

Haha, I saw that "Woot" and came right over here as well.

Looks like a good deal, but maybe not exactly what you're looking for. The Carbon doesn't look nearly as well constructed as my Cali, but then again, the Cali was designed for working out with, so by definition it has to be durable.

As for the nice interface and usability, perception varies - I'm perfectly happy tweaking with hardware and software to get things working exactly the way I want them. Other people want all this stuff done for them so they don't have to deal with it. Those that fall into the former category won't usually justify the higher cost of the iPod because they'd be paying a bunch of extra money for features they don't want.

I bought my daughter's 1 gig Nano brand new for $79.
I bought my friend a 2 gig Nano brand new for $99.
I have not seen anything like a Nano for less than 2 times as much.
Most players in this price are 128mb.

BTW: the 8gig Nano is "BLACK"
and sells new for $239.

I have a velcro strap and clip that holds mine to the emergency brake handle.
I never have to look at it to use the controls.

Sony Ericcson W810i. :cool: