Hope you didn't toss the old. Some people would kill for that ABS ring lol
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Hope you didn't toss the old. Some people would kill for that ABS ring lol
Thinking about it... the coil over towers I got are quite large and welding them on will add some rigidity to the frame. Also I plan on using a bar in the engine bay to connect the towers, which should make for a nice support crossmember.Quote:
Originally Posted by Triathlete
You know it Jo. Big cajones!!! :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by JoFotoz
We'll see how it goes...
I haven't gotten rid of anything. I didn't know the ABS rings were that valuable since most here have a broken ABS module. Thanks for heads up, I'll pull them off before recycling the scrap metal.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmayer40
Looking great, just to let you know. If you need a lift for anything my shop is open. Not just to you but to any vx'ers. No charge.
Nice progress guys!
I need to come hang out with you sometime soon. I'll bring beers and an amateur level of wrenching ability.
Maybe you pros can tell me if all the new squeaks and rattles I have are lack of grease or something more serious.
I haven't done a single off road trip this year :(
Work is insane, and I have no idea where the summer went.
Thanks for the offer Jake... a lift would be really handy when I get further along. :thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Otwobme
It was a bummer I missed the latest meet... we should try again soon.
Sounds good Tom, you bring the wrench... I'll provide the beer. :_beer:Quote:
Originally Posted by twalker920
Progressing nicely! And like Jo...watching closely and taking notes ;)
The H3 4:1 is a no go... it is a slip-yoke style case with no means to remove the slip-yoke section from the back half of the case. I was hopeful it would work for my Blazer too...Quote:
Originally Posted by VXorado
I have some advice for you... don't put your hands on the bottom side of the axle when you are trying to position it. It really hurts & can deform your hand if it falls. :o And don't weld while shirtless... :bgwb: And don't lie down after heavy grinding until you have cleaned out your eyebrows... sharp shards of tiny metal can fall into your eyeball... that also hurts really bad. :yeso:
I am excited to see YOUR variation of an SAS! Lots of updated, please!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZEUS
Too bad about the H3 t-case. That's a waste of the 4:1 gears.
Ha, good safety advice!!! It's amazing how much that D44 weighs and I've been moving it around while sporting flip flops. Just a matter of time until I mash a toe. :eek:
I got the axle under the VX today to get an idea of clearances and bracket locations. I almost immediately ran into a problem...
This axle I picked up a while back came with high steer and 1.5 DOM tube steering links. I figured the high steer was a nice addition that wouldn't be a problem to use. I've seen other SAS Trooper builds use the high steer but for whatever reason, it's not going to work for this build.
Steering link on frame rail.
http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/...psde46003b.jpg
http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5835885d.jpg
Now look at the height! With high steer hitting the frame rail, this would be full compression (on bumpstops). It would need a ride height at least 4" higher than the pic.
http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/...ps90eff012.jpg
Obviously, I won't be able to use the high steer if I want to keep the VX low. Also, I took a comparison pic of the tire in original place vs. 3" forward. I like the looks of the tire pushed forward. :thumbup:
http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6e439578.jpg
Maybe flip the steering upside down..
..and if required 'bow' the link to clear pumpkin?
Just a quick..'I'm about to eat dinner'..thought!
And YEA!..fwd 3 inches looks good..and will give a better entry:)
Probably worth the 0.02 cents!
Jo
Notch and plate the frame?
In my mind I was thinking 5-6 inches forward for the axle.
Is it just the photo angle or the axle is not sitting at the right rotation. The knuckles/c's are rotated back. If rotated forward (rear of pumpkin angled up a bit) the steering arm will rotate down an inch or two (still not enough but a start). And as Jo said, flip the link to the bottom of the arms...there's another inch.
OR...... Just not use the high steer. Looks to me like the "stock" steering location will work fine.
Flipping the tie rods would work, but the top of the high steer is tapered and only fits the tie rods from top-down.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoFotoz
I could notch the frame but that would a be a big cutout and still might not get me to the desired ride height. I'd like to be 4-5" lower at full compression. --- if possible :_confusedQuote:
Originally Posted by Triathlete
I'll probably play with the axle tire location more but will probably end up around 3-4" inches forward. If I go more, the tire will be pushed out of the wheel well too much for my liking. I'll take another pic with the axle pushed further forward for comparison.
I need a magnetic protractor to set the caster angle which should be around +5 degrees. I played around with a more negative caster angle and it does give me a little bit more clearance on the steering linkage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Triathlete
You're right, I was just baffled by ride height requirement to run high steer considering other Isuzu builds I've seen. I may have to build new steering links to correct length for the stock mounts (which sucks!), otherwise it shouldn't be a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by orion
Thanks for the feedback guys... got me thinking! I'll move the steering linkage down to the stock mount later today and see how it looks. More pics to follow... :_beer:
Custom tube frame :D
Just catching up on this thread. Big nads is right! I just could never take something like this on! Props to you for doing it, Rado!
Now, not to be a dick, but... :D I know you get longer wheel base, blah blah blah, but moving that front wheel forward, this is EXACTLY what I think makes SASes look bad. Again, this is just my opinion, but if I were you, I would keep the wheel centered under the wheel well as much as possible without distorting the look of the VX too much. (You be quiet, Billy!)
I have yet to see a quality Isuzu SAS that doesn't end up looking ill proportioned, awkward and weird. But again, just my opinion! I have high hopes for this build!
Bart
Thanks Bart and I agree about the odd look when the axle is moved up significantly. I need to move the axle forward a bit (like in the pic above) to fit the future 37s.Quote:
Originally Posted by nfpgasmask
This pic is for Billy... axle pushed forward 5"! (just for reference)
http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/...psqeoqv2ty.jpg
Also...
I moved the steering linkage down to the stock mount.
http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/...pslzxrohg7.jpg
Full compression. Ride height will be +5"
http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/...psu0bhck3s.jpg
Thanks for that pic...looks like a lot of trimming will be needed :)
Phase 5 ....in progress
Well, it seems every SAS thread has a downtime for updates... and now I know why. Things have been going well but there's alot of time put into measuring, adjusting, measuring again, fabricating, measuring a 3rd time, re-fabricating, on & on & on. So we're moving forward and I finally have some updated pics to share.
Control Arm Setup
I went with TnT Customs XJ long arm setup. This setup uses a "radius arm" style configuration that eliminates 2 out 4 of control arm frame mounts. The setup is fully adjustable for caster angle & axle position.
http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/...psteeowqyv.jpg
http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/...psafnfwpx2.jpg
http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/...psrsah4jhv.jpg
Frame Brackets
I purchased a set of control arm frame brackets from Ballistic Fab. The frame bracket needed to be positioned at the trans crossmember, which is dropped about 2" from the frame. I chose to remove part of the crossmember mount to fit my bracket and allow more surface to weld. To make things easier, the stock crossmember can still be used.
http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/...psnudt4fco.jpg
http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/...psmb6hhljn.jpg
Axle under VX
http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/...psdaxlxw78.jpg
Next up is steering. I wanted to replace my steering box because of gear slop at max adjustment and got lucky finding a nice box the junkyard. No leaks, fairly tight and room for adjustment. After steering... trackbar, brake lines, coilover towers & test drive.
looking great, if you need any help let me know, i might be slow with the wrist but at least i would have one good hand to give you.
Coming along nicely. I was reading a Zu build on Pirate and they were using an f250 steering box. Said it worked great and had enough power that no hydro assist was needed with large tires.
Thanks, I should be good getting the VX to the test drive. After that,your lift might be a real help for making adjustments.Quote:
Originally Posted by Otwobme
I researched quite a bit on steering. Initially, I was going to use a FJ60/FJ80 box because they have a forward facing pitman arm. I believe the splined u-joint on the steering shaft is the same but the gearbox hose connectors are a different size. I found that with my axle location, I could get away with using a rear facing pitman arm and save $500 not using a toyota setup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Triathlete
I had read the same about the F-250 box but that's even more work than using the toyota box because it would need a new steering shaft. The F-250 is a bigger box but I believe the gearing is the same. I'm not convinced you would get much extra benefit of a bigger box without a larger, higher pressure steering pump.
I figured for now I would keep it simple and cheap by using a stock ZU box. If I have issues with weak steering, I'll look into a new setup &/or hydro assist when I have more time.
Check with Buffy on the trick steering setup he put on his race truck.
Yeah he's got full hydro steer (I believe Sleveritt with Nuke VX does too). Best option for offroad, not great for streets. For daily driving, hydro assist kits exist to keep eveything original in place but more turning power for bigger tires. Awesome but expensive and I blew all my extra spending money on the suspension!!! :naughty:Quote:
Originally Posted by tom4bren
Buffy's full hydro
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1...ze/photo-2.jpg
Hydro assist
http://image.fourwheeler.com/f/29029...2bcomplete.jpg
uve created a monster hajaha nice
Nice progress! Was the radius arm approach required to get the maximum up-travel vs. a 3-link? Or were there other clearance issues at all? Short wheelbase with a 2-link front suspension tends to unload on hills. I'm curious because it was a compromise I was willing to live with myself until I found more room for a third link on my Blazer build.
Excited to see some flex shots!
Based on several Isuzu builds I researched, the 3 link setup always ended with a taller ride height vs the radius arm. The Isuzu frame is tricky because it seats the engine pretty shallow compared to most other SUVs. For instance, someone had mentioned notching the frame to fit the histeer but when I looked into that option I found the front oil pan sticks down an 1" below the frame.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZEUS
Additionally, there are two great radius arm builds on the planet and really liked the end result. For the geometries, it seemed to be an easier to tackle when working on a garage floor.
...as for unloading, it has been a concern of mine BUT I have a trick up my sleeve to prevent it. :naughty:
We did a SAS on my buddies Rodeo race truck, which is pretty much the same as the VX. We went with the Toyota steering box on his. The steering shaft was the same and in his case the hoses threaded right on. We had to modify the pitman arm by straightening is some and had to clearance the frame a bit. The setup works quite well actually.
Sounds to me like a winch-attached-down-travel-limiter (TM)! :yesgray: What you are describing is exactly what I was running up against on my build also. Lots O Fun! Things get tight really quick...Quote:
Originally Posted by VXorado
That's good to know. I had read a post on Pirate a while back that the threads where different and new lines would need to be made. I have the ZU box mounted now which was a bit of challenge because it had to be move forward a bit. I will play around with my old box for tapping hole to add hydro assist. If it doesn't work out, I may refab the steering for a tapped toyota gearbox + hydro assist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffy
Nope, not a winch. It will be part of the spring suspension. :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by ZEUS
Things are tight, finding a spot for the track bar is tricky. I think I might run it in reverse at the same angle as the draglink.
Are u joking about the track bar direction? I swear u are mocking the Nuke VX with that comment! If not, please reconsider.
Now you've offended me Justin,Quote:
Originally Posted by ZEUS
... I will install two opposing, opposing track bars. That should keep the bump steer minimal.
:dance:
Yep, just messing with you.
Haha! Jerk! Whew, u had me going there... Two opposing track bars would work much better; great thinking!
Steering is mounted
I was able to use the stock steering box but it was a little hassle getting it mounted. Because of the pitman arm angle, I needed mount the box flat which caused a nice angle on the steering shaft u-joint. I'm not that happy about the U-joint angle although I don't see it being much of an issue for the time being. To allow frame clearance of the u-joint, I needed to raise up the mounting position of the box by 1.25." I still plan to add a bottom plate to the box for extra support.
I may end up switching to a Fj60 steering box at some point if I notice in wear issues occuring with the ZU box. If everything works well but I need extra turning power, I'll look into tapping the box for hydro assist. Indy4x sells an HD u-joint that I can install if I notice any wear on the stock u-joint.
http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/...psm4e65ggr.jpg
I still need to ream the pitman arm for 1-ton TREs
http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/...psqgs83lzz.jpg
Shock Towers
I found the tallest towers I could and cut them through the wheel wells into the engine bay. The biggest challenge was rearranging a few things in the engine bay but I was able to make it all fit. On the driver's side, I had to cut a section of the tower out to allow clearance for the steering shaft. Lastly, I fabbed up a tube to mount between the towers that should add some strength & rigidity to the towers/frame.
http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/...psaltt5iff.jpg
http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/...psljmhcoce.jpg
http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5banqxyr.jpg
Now I'm working on the trackbar... If I dedicate a bit of time this weekend, I may even get the VX on the road for a test drive! :D
I sure wish I could work that fast! ...and simple. Try running the track bar front to rear for best results.
Oh yeah we're moving along...Quote:
Originally Posted by ZEUS
I had to drop $100 on a reamer for the 1-ton TRE. It only took about 10 minutes of turning really slow with a cordless drill. Now that the steering draglink is mounted, I can get the angle for the trackbar.
http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/...psiwp4aq9r.jpg
It's possible (fingers crossed), I'll have this build on the road today!
Very nice work!
:clap: :smack: :thumbup: :smack: :clap:
Awesome.... :_beer:
jo