Luna X - you should if you have not already looking into a mouth appliance for sleep apnea
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Luna X - you should if you have not already looking into a mouth appliance for sleep apnea
My dentist wasn't too keen on the idea of that. He was going to consult with his partners & get back to me. He just didn't like the idea of spending 1/4 of your life with your jaw forced forward & wanted to check to see if there would be any detrimental effects (long term).Quote:
Originally Posted by JHarris1385
You need to speak to a TMJ specialist versus a typical DMD or DDS.
TMJ stands for???
I'm assuming Throat, Mandible, Jaw but that's just a shot in the dark.
Nope, sorry...no soup for you!Quote:
Originally Posted by tom4bren
Temporomandibular joint
Of course it does. I think there's 3 of those specialists in Fredericksburg.:luck:
Yes there you go. For proper advice you need more than knowledge beyond teeth, dentin and so forth. If you lived closer I would recommended someone but...He fixed my friends dad who had to be hooked up a a breathing machine at night with a mask.
teeth grinding IS another bad thing I do while sleeping...
Biggest problem is that insurance doesn't cover tmj.... doesn't make any sense I have a lot of pain in my neck, jaw temples and they don't recognize a nite-guard as something beneficial?!.... Ah, just write him another prescription, it's fine. :(
I hate typical internal medicine. They rely so heavily on returning clients that its now the norm to just give a prescription and say come back next month or so.
I will email a few about this and see what options you may have if any given your distance.
Leah's main issue was taking the teas back to back instead of skipping a day or two inbetween. This was driving the toxins out at a faster than normal pace. The body was using alot of internal energy to rid of the excess. I wish we were able to test her PH levels, if she lived closer we could have.
Hi Luna,Quote:
Originally Posted by Luna X
Thanks for the suggestion. I have had some form of insomnia for many years. It usually takes me a couple of hours to fall asleep and then I wake up about every hour and a half after that. By the time the morning rolls around, I'm exhausted. I just got some Ambian from the doctor but I can't take it unless I know I can sleep for 8 uninterupted hours. With my work schedule the way it is, I haven't been able to try it yet, but I hope to, tomorrow night.
There has been some conjecture that the reason for my insomnia is a trained response over the years of living with my ex and fearing for my life. The belief is that, as time goes by and I feel safer and get used to the idea that I don't have to stay somewhat alert all the time, that I will relax and be able to get a good night's sleep. I actually am sleeping better than I was 6 months ago, and truthfully, I slept better during the time on the zija products...but I couldn't say for sure why or that it had 100% to do with it. Hormones are so fickle at my age. :upsetgray:mady:
Quite honestly your posts and multiple references to additional links did not highlight any fault or harm that would be caused by the consumption of Zija or Moringa. More so and in addition they also did not disprove anything I posted either. I completely understand looking out for the community here as I have shared for years any advice I can give or suggested to stray away from something. However with this being harmless and only beneficial, your attempts, post no merit other than potential personal gains.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Biko
For whomever has an issue with this being branded as an MLM or something of that nature. We can boil it down to this: yes it could be a potential income source from introducing this to you all. While some may have a problem with that, I do not have a problem with other members selling parts for profit either fabricated or extras. Everyone has their own personal reasoning of what motivates them to sell anything on here be auto like or else. To be open and honest with you...have you ever seen a student loan bill for graduate or med school?
With that being said, I honestly did not want to post the above in response to any negativity in hopes it would die down. However I felt that I had a point to make both that nothing was pinpointed to be harmful in anyway and that if advertising on here is wrong, then I apologize, as I was not aware of where the line should have been drawn.
Zija and Moringa is actually helping a lot of local people, in many ways. It would be of great benefit to me as the informant and you to be able to hear first hand. However due to my location I am not surrounded by many others on here. I do have a relative and she has about 10 friends on it out in San Fran, if anyone would like to speak to her. I feel as though I have given adequate information on this and you can take it or leave it. 1. It IS a great product, and is a see it to believe it and 2. It is a source of side income (who wouldn't want that)
Just in case here is the facebook page:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Zija-f...24800087566315
That's absolutely true,Quote:
Quite honestly your posts and multiple references to additional links did not highlight any fault or harm that would be caused by the consumption of Zija or Moringa.
but completely irrelevant.
What my research turned up was:
- Your claims of "science" were all hokum -- you cited articles that were merely literature surveys.
- Your use of the Johns Hopkins imprimatur was undeserved -- the guy at JHU was a non-tenure track prof studying broccoli
- Your claims of "peer review" were overblown -- when the editor in chief is also an article's author it is a conflict of interest.
- That there is a tremendous amount of Zija marketing hype on the very website you linked to.
I wrote that the vegetable is a common crop on the indian sub-continent, that's pretty much the opposite of claiming it is harmful. You are the only person in this entire thread to bring up the question of potential harm. I think you brought it up as a red herring so you could vent your frustration at having your faith in this vegetable called into question.Quote:
I felt that I had a point to make both that nothing was pinpointed to be harmful in anyway
Coming back a week after the last post in the thread with a made-up grievance is really more of a way to kick it up a notch. Instead, I recommend simply avoiding outrageous and unsupportable claims. I guarantee that will keep me from responding.Quote:
I honestly did not want to post the above in response to any negativity in hopes it would die down.
I have so much to gain because I am selling the anti-scam - everybody give me your money and I will research and debunk specious claims from MLM converts. I even did the first one "at cost" - so it's like I'm not even actually selling anything.Quote:
your attempts, post no merit other than potential personal gains
The reason people have an issue with the MLM is that legitimate MLMs are as scarce as hen's teeth. Coming out full-throttle with appeals to authority like indiscriminately citing "peer review," claiming PubMed is "top tier," trying to blind us with 'science' and your acceptance to medical school only increase the skepticism.Quote:
For whomever has an issue with this being branded as an MLM or something of that nature.
I don't doubt your sincerity one iota, you clearly have a belief in this vegetable that leaves no room for doubt.
And that is what I have an issue with.
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
-Bertrand Russell
This is ridiculous.
This has turned into something that mimics a political debate, as I throw something out there and you have spun it around to make it look bad, but really it doesn't count.
You have an issue with a man that holds an Doctorate of Science because he happens to work not only for John Hopkins School of Medicine but Trees for Life? Both of those two are completely fine in my books and that should be the same for everyone. He wrote a review paper referencing some 100+ sources and you act like it means nothing? No doctor, no person with a higher degree, nor a School like JH will ever allow something to have their name on it if they did not fully back it. That is common sense. So that point - means zero.
Seems your main issue is it is some form MLM or direct sales or so forth. And if this was not the case I would not have you to deal with.
Now I don't really want to compare Zija and Moringa to others like in the same sales style category but....I can almost guarantee that someone if not quite a few have pampered chef utensils in their kitchen. Am I right? This is another company that decided to sell this way, and is not a bad product and in fact is pretty good. I can name a few more too. So my point is just because it is set up this way does not make an inferior product. It was their choice to do it this way after expanding their product line and taking it off the shelves in 2004. Think about it, on the shelf you have to advertise this new product in a more typical fashion. The way it is now you have true users of it doing face to face marketing, which is much more affective. Affective because on the shelf the average person will not take much time to really read about it and try to personally distinguish it from the rest. However when face to face there will be time.
There is nothing in this message that you can spin around and make it look bad. However given your history, you will find a way to make what you say look important with your ample free time to waste on such a product. Then once again I will have to debunk it. We are much of a family here, and my point of it not being harmful, proclaims that there is no reason for you to do what you have done. Thank you for high jacking this thread to this extreme. You need a crash course in VehiCross threads 101.
:drama::badhorse::drama:
I'm impressed. By the critique, that is. I haven't been logged in to Vehicross Info in a while, but it is pretty gratifying to see that inside of four responses and someone points out the whole thing is an MLM product, and Biko takes the time to research and point out the psuedo pscientific nonsense surrounding this wonder cure. How many things has the OP claimed this miracle product can help wiht so far? I lost count.
Thanks, Stephen Biko, for taking the time. Especially loved the challenge of the OPs appeal to authority. Plus, anyone who signs off with Bertrand Russell is OK in my book
The most potent weapon of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed.
- SB
Knowledge is power - JRH 2010
Fact: He was not able to point out any nonsense within it. More so was only able to point out that the author of the John Hopkins review paper was also working for Trees for Life. That doesn't make it any less credible.
Fact: I figured there would be more here that were open minded.
Fact: Is a MLM/Direct Marketing, who cares, that does not make it and inferior product.
Fact: Too many people locally with great stories and results as well as nationwide and other countries.
Thanks for your understanding.
Quite honestly do you think I thought it would not be brought up that this was set up the way it is? I insisted on anyone googling it if they wanted to. In addition, if it came down to it how else would I introduce the business side of it without informing of this?
It does not bother me of how it is set up. Many people around us work for or share products from companies. This one just happens to be one of the few that is more so medicinal.
You seem confused as to the definition of a fact, as yours' are not, actually.Quote:
Originally Posted by JHarris1385
Opinion: I think he pretty skillfully pointed out the nonsense you are selling.
Opinion: Your second point is pretty much the definition of an opinion. You figured...
Opinion: MLM marketing is often scams, and what is not a scam is often useless, regardless of the True Believers selling it. Like your product, for instance.
Opinion: The plural of anecdote is not evidence, despite your just so stories and personal testimonies.
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Argh!!!! Make it stop, please!!!!!!
yes, I know I could just stop reading the thread...but IMO it'd be nicer if it just ceased......Just IMHO :wave:
X2 Seriously you guys need to just agree to disagree. Just let it go. No really, no response is needed. You don't even need to reply. Just let sleeping dogs lie. Just accept there are conflicting views and live with it. Why even try to support your point against someone who is absolutely opposed to your point of view? It's like trying to convince Nazis to support Judiasm or making communists see the virtues of capitalism. YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME!!!. You have already convinced anyone who is remotely aligned to your point of view already. Seriously arguing this thread is wasting time past this point. Figure it out. That is not meant as a challenge to post a rebuttal, but a call to stop posting so this thread doesn't keep finding it's way to the top. Myself, and a great many others are tired of having to sift through your tirades to see posts that actually have a legitimate meaning to something relating to the topic of a goddamn vehi-cross. Soapbox session: OVER!Quote:
Argh!!!! Make it stop, please!!!!!!
yes, I know I could just stop reading the thread...but IMO it'd be nicer if it just ceased......Just IMHO
Sounds like it might be time for a new .sig there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascinder
Sorry guys, but the irony is just too great for me not to make one truely self-indulgent post here. I apologize for the fit of incoherence that is sure to follow. Really, I do.
Turns out there really is something to JRH's theory about moringa being harmful. It is a good thing he brought it up.
You know that survey paper that Johns Hopkins "fully backs" just because a guy studying broccoli at JHU wrote it? That paper includes a study -- one that used real science to compare the effects of feeding ground-up moringa seeds to rats versus a standard laboratory baseline diet of egg-white protein.
Guess what? Eating moringa caused those rats to suffer "loss of appetite, impaired growth, lower NPU and enlargement of stomach, small intestine, caecum+colon, liver, pancreas, kidneys, heart and lungs and atrophy of thymus and spleen."
See for yourself it is reference #112 in the "Johns Hopkins Paper"
Here's the abstract of the study itself, just a paragraph long in reasonably plain english.
So there you have it, Johns Hopkins says moringa can cause impaired growth plus enlargement of many important organs in the body. Remember, "No doctor, no person with a higher degree, nor a School like JH will ever allow something to have their name on it if they did not fully back it. That is common sense." So it must be true.
If it weren't for JRH's meticulous understanding of academia and scientific research that brought the "JHU paper" to our attention we would never have learned how dangerous this plant is. If you don't want your organs to swell up, avoid it!
PS, moringa makes a good pesticide too. Lollers!
In reference to your pesticide post - We should all be aware from basic science knowledge that plants have natural ways or warding off potential predators by things internal or as simple as sight or smell. What you have posted is a link from pubmed that states the lectin within does just this. We have lectin right now in our bodies. Some lectin is good some bad and some are bad or good to other forms of life and not us. Now considering we do not share the same circulatory or digestive tracks of a flying insect this does not harm us. I can easily go into more detail but maybe I need to keep this basic.
In reference to your rat post - This is not as easily explained in basic form. So follow me...your post stated that the seeds have a deficient levels of the amino acids lysine, threonine and valine. Well first, lysine in a rat is the first limiting amino acid. Which means if in low volumes of what is needed, alters the protein synthesis cycle within during translation/transcription/DNA/RNA process. So this means the rats were fed a diet that malnourished them. An effect of being malnourished is enlarged bloating gut and organs. As stated this alters the protein cycle of building your cells correctly. This would create a mutation in the line up of your amino acids, possibly leading to a missense mutation. Lysine comes from the leaves of the plant.
Are we done yet? I feel I did quite a good job.
I agree you don't like anything about this. We have gotten way off course. Could you find it possible to cease your posts of negativity? There has not been once I was not able to show you the other side of things. I would like to continue to post positive things about this as you have been more than able to make your point and steer anyone away from this at this point.
Like I said this is science.
P.S. - Have you paid your dues for this site? Or are you using it for free?
Awful lot of generalization there - you seem exceptionally confident that there is nothing more to the effect. That's an unsupported conclusion. Especially given that those same researchers followed up on mosquito testing and found an effect on the thymus just from subcutaneously injecting rats with moringa -- rather than making it their sole source of protein like the other researchers did.Quote:
Now considering we do not share the same circulatory or digestive tracks of a flying insect this does not harm us. I can easily go into more detail but maybe I need to keep this basic.
Either way though, kudos for not going all rabid this time. What's kinda odd is how your writing style is so much more cogent, much better grammar, tighter sentence construction and reduced rambling. It's almost like someone else's writing.
No, it is not. Science requires the use of the scientific method - not literature surveys and bad logic.Quote:
Like I said this is science.
If you stop making outrageous and unsupported claims I will stop calling you out on them. And no, there really has been only once you've been able to show "the other side of things" - just because I haven't called you out on every fallacy doesn't mean they weren't fallacies. Most of them I figured were self-evident enough that they didn't even need to be disputed.Quote:
Could you find it possible to cease your posts of negativity? There has not been once I was not able to show you the other side of things
Hey there it is! I've been expecting you try to chase me off by questioning my right to be here.Quote:
Originally Posted by JHarris1385
I've been around here since before you even knew what a VX was.
I was around to buy one of the first few superchargers from Tone and before that the interceptor as well as a bunch of his other accessories and I wouldn't be surprised if I've contributed 10x the dollars to funding this site that you have.
The thing is I would NEVER even imply that you didn't have the right to post here, but it looks like that's your goto tactic. First you complained about my non-VX posts in a non-VX thread that you started in the non-VX forum. Then you hypocritically accused me of have something to gain by debunking some of your outrageous claims. And then, in the most transparent display of frustration yet, you try to get all holier-than-thou but totally misfire. Seems like a major self-esteem issue to me - so much hyperbole and bluster when you don't get your way.
And to question if someone else on here has a right to post?Quote:
Originally Posted by JHarris1385
I would have expected better from you. As many here know I fully support anyone posting anything on here that is not an attack on another poster. To suggest you should be allowed to post about a non VX product, something you have been against before, but another does not have the right to question what may be a legimate counter arguement is wrong. And then to try to embaress a long time visitor to this site by question whether he has made a voluntary donation just compounds the issue
I just wanna hear more about enlargement of organs...if this effect could be targeted to certain organs you could make some serious money!
Plus you could use the organ enlarging effect to help end the pissing contest this thread has turned into!:yesy:Quote:
I just wanna hear more about enlargement of organs...if this effect could be targeted to certain organs you could make some serious money!
So with all that being said.....
WHO WANTS IT?!?!?!
I almost died yesterday, I was about an hour late drinking my Smart Mix.
http://www.smileyshut.com/smileys/ne...317[1].gifQuote:
Originally Posted by Ascinder
Sounds like we may be getting ready to kill another horse...
I wanted to see how long this one would go. Normally, non-VX related wares aren't allowed. Save for a few autos and stereos etc... they rarely break out into this kind of song and dance.
Just a polite reminder, donations don't give rights to one over the other. A donation only gives a member more photo and message space and convenience features.
So...maybe wait longer next time?....:laughing:Quote:
Originally Posted by JHarris1385
If you become that dependent on a MLM suppliment, I suggest that either your brain is a bit wiggly, or you'd be better off on some really hard drugs, at least with the hard drugs, you know the supply will always be there...:yesgray:
Seriously, try noni juice, but don't settle for anything less than "pure tahitian"...:smilewink
BTW, the aunt I mentioned towards the beginning of this thread, is now taking a permanent dirt nap...:_confused
She was also a "mondo beyondo" conservative zealot, who told jesus when she should be going, then cursed him for not taking her into heaven on her time table...gotta l:heart:ve zealots of any stripe, they're SO entertaining...:yesgray:
Blatant jack of an R-tard thread...good ta see ya posting Boss Man...:yes:
Not to mention the uptic in organ sales on the black market...:yesgray:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascinder
OMFG... who keeps bumping up this thread??
Ldub - Zija used to be on the shelf. Then went this way for profits and face to face marketing in a saturated market if not able to distinguish itself, being that it has set itself as a premium product. Can't blame them in a way can you? I used to take Noni and thought it was working but found myself slowly not taking it and then to the point of never buying it. See Noni is MorinDa and the buck pretty much stops at antioxidants. Zija with MorinGa, is supposedly what I said it is (beyond just antiox). Funny how they are such similar named, I confused them at first. When first told what Zija was, I said, been there tried that...thinking it was Noni or Monavie. But it was a "G". Some MorinDa drinks or Noni are set up the same way and you just do not know it.
The reason I have tried many things is because I am a lifelong chronic migraine sufferer. I have done it all when it comes to tests, and taken it all when it comes to preventative and prescription after onset. I have had migraines since 4yrs old, so it has become a quest of mine. I have tracked my migraines since on Zija and will continue till a 6 month mark and year mark and compare. Short term it seems to be working, but I want to fully make sure its just not environmental as well. For example next semester should be much more stressful and will be a good comparison.
As for the donation line: I admit it was worded wrong. What I wanted to get across is I see a member from 2009, marked a Super Vxer, post mainly on topics non auto related and almost only when he disagrees to the fullest extent. Whether that is right or wrong or allowed or frowned upon, you can not blame me for being aggravated in this situation. I have spent more time answering his questioning of the supplement, than I have been able to provide additional information. I strongly believe I was able to support my claims and the claims of others that it is beneficial. If I have to get more scientific I will, each and every time, however its is much easier with my demanding schedule to do otherwise. That is why I asked for it to stop, versus telling him. Even said "could you find it possible" which is quite polite.
However I was not the first to mention this to someone, nor will I be the last. It has been said many times before to people "using the site for free". I am fully aware it is a "donation" and what it grants you with extras.
Lastly and for the record..this line is indeed a fact, as I did think this.
Fact: I figured there would be more here that were open minded
Currently...my wife's cousin has lost 15 pounds since Oct, 24th.
And honestly it is a good source of side income thus far. My goal is to pay off student loans with it and hopefully make enough monthly to not work and pick up even more classes at school as a result.
Oh...that pretty much explains why you were so kind as to "offer" it to the rest 0f us undereducated "plebes"...I guess I should be thanking you...:rolleyesgQuote:
Originally Posted by JHarris1385
Don't hold yer breath, you'll have another near death experience.:slap:
I never said anyone was undereducated. Just stated my goals. I don't want to come off that way. We each have our own hobbies, oddly one of mine is learning..yeah its weird, I admit. I am always open ears to anyone that has lived experiences that I have not or knows things I don't. An old neighbor taught me this and I admire it.
I want to thank everyone that has messaged me here recently, concerning all subjects of this thread, whether it be for the product or their beliefs and opinions that reassembled mine.
This illustrates that the Vx community does indeed have members with the ability to see past one's personal hatred.
Thanks again - I will be ordering a bunch here soon and should have enough samples to send out to those that are interested. I understand any desires to keep all information private through the pm system.