Advice on Lower Control Arm damage & repair

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05/27/2013, 04:42 PM
JoFotoz

:thumbup:...I hear ya Mav.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vt_maverick

Hence "lift and slam." ;)

...was really just laying out the gist of what Sue and I have been chatting about..
.......to help anyone with airbag skills chime in.

:_beer:

jo
05/27/2013, 08:57 PM
VX KAT

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triathlete

Sue, to do that damage you surely would have heard and felt it. That would require a VERY hard hit.

Oh I heard and felt it alright! I had 3 really bad slams coming down Porcupine Rim.
05/28/2013, 04:47 AM
tom4bren

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Larson

Sue, you took one hard hit on that LCA and that can transmit to anything it's attached to. In the VX's case, that happens to be a cast bracket that once tweaked cannot be staightened and expected to survive. Any reputable frame shop or repair facility won't take that risk. The reason your go-to guy won't just weld in a new bracket is because it's very tricky welding cast metal to formed steel. That's why he's opting for cutting out the frame and bracket assembly and welding in a salvaged assembly from a yard. It really makes sense from a safety standpoint and I commend him for calling it like it is...sorry the news isn't better! :_brickwal

Scott,

That bracket doesn't look like it's cast. It looks like the same material that the LCA is made out of ... Stamped Steel.

Sue,

I'll stick with my original opinion (even tho the 3rd nutz bros disagrees). Replacement LCA is an option but the original part can probably be made to be as true and strong as OEM. It's just a matter of determining the most cost effective approach to the repair.

Definitely do not start cutting your frame for this repair. It isn't necessary.

Tom
05/28/2013, 06:32 AM
BigSwede

Quote:

Originally Posted by vt_maverick

But couldn't she just put in the Daystar spacers, crank the T-bars, and be more or less where she was last year when she had no problems? I think the only difference is her tires are 1" shorter than they were last year, so if she lifts by an inch (Daystar advertises them as 1.5" but rickshaw and I both found them to be closer to 1")

FWIW, they are 1.5" in their intended application, which is a Dodge PU front IFS I believe. But for our use they are indeed 1" effective lift.

Quote:

But is the problem really the trails themselves? A few folks told me the trails were worse last year than in previous years, even on the "bunny slopes." And it sounds like things were even worse this year. Are we seeing the end of the era of stock VX participation at Moab?

There are still plenty of easier trails out there, so there isn't any need to exclude stockers. Might take a concious effort to include a easier trail run each day, but given the informal nature of the organization of trail runs, those interested in easier trails do need to be proactive about it.

Heck, on Sunday a bunch of use went on Thompson Canyon, an easy trail none of us had been on before. No technical driving, but we had a good time.
05/28/2013, 08:50 AM
nfpgasmask

Hey Sue, I didn't read through every reply here, but honestly, I agree with Giz. It does not look like you bent the frame mounting piece that holds the LCA bushing.

From what I see, you should replace your LCA with a straight one, get new LCA bushings, and have all that installed.

I just checked car-part.com and it looks like the late model Rodeo LCAs are the same as they come up in the search....looks as cheap as $35.

I think you should leave the frame alone unless there really is significant damage, which does not appear to be the case.

Bart
05/28/2013, 09:58 AM
nocturnalVX

:hj:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ND92

Disclaimer: DON'T DO KANE CREEK STOCK.....

I did Kane Creek stock with no problem... eleven years ago! Great trail, but I took home some "trail trophies" the last time I did it (with rock sliders, skid plates, lift, and bigger tires). Yes, some trails are getting tougher and the old 1-5 rating system is out of date. However, a stock vehicle can sill do most of the old 3 or 3.5 trails. Just be careful, go slow, and have a good spotter. I did Steel Bender... sorry, Hello Kitty Canyon... before my VX was lifted. I bumped and scraped quite a bit, but nothing major. Thanks for the spotting Steve!

I hope you get your VX fixed up without too much $$$ Sue, and I hope things like this don't deter anyone from coming out to Moab. I love hanging out with you all! Good luck Sue. :luck:
05/28/2013, 10:14 AM
VX KAT
Discussed with my guy again (by phone)-
- Thinks vertical frame piece is pushed rearward from the impact
- Vertical piece in RED is welded to the frame
- Wants the piece of donor frame in GREEN with several inches on either side of the vertical piece, so he can remove the vertical piece himself, nice and clean.
- He does not have frame repair equipment so can't do laser measurement
- Made appt for tomorrow to put it on rack and take closer look.
- May take it to a frame shop to confirm if vertical piece is out of spec. BEFORE I commit to anything.
- I'd PREFER to have him do LCA/bushing replacement, and alignment.
  If he can't align, would that confirm frame piece is out of spec?
  I realize that would cause double labor if frame piece is out of whack and THEN needs to be replaced.
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/da...T_OUTLINED.jpg

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/...s/DSCF2298.jpg
05/28/2013, 10:20 AM
nfpgasmask

Yeah, I mean, it is difficult to see in the photo, but I think you are on the right track with replacing the LCA and bushings first, and then see if you can get it aligned, at a different shop that knows nothing about the damage, just to be 100% sure you are getting honest work.

Bart
05/28/2013, 02:06 PM
LittleBeast

I agree with Bart, the KISS should definitely be implimented here, Keep It Simple Stupid ;-)

Far too many times I have tried to fix TOO much and ended up having worse problems down the road with what I was trying to avoid. Keep it as stock as possible.

Just like Bart said I would replace LCA and bushing and then go to a place that does do the laser alignment. My gut feeling is that you will be good to go after that :-)
05/28/2013, 02:58 PM
Buffy

Sue,

I did the exact same thing to my race truck the last race of the year. I heated the part circled in red and "gently" tapped it in place with a 5 pound hammer. Now something that has not been mentioned here is this would be an awesome opportunity to do an SAS on your VX. Ditch all the torsion bars and IFS stuff and find a Dana 44. You could do a leaf spring front and have nice articulation with minimal install labor going the leaf route.

Just a different idea.....

Greg
05/28/2013, 03:05 PM
nfpgasmask

Hammering the piece back to where it belongs is actually not a bad idea. That is, if it is indeed out of whack. If it bent at all, I would say it is minimal, so heat it up orange hot and hammer it back into position. I think with a straight lower control arm, you will find out if it is bent a little. I think getting the LCA to line up right will be difficult, making the damage apparent.

Bart

PS - SAS....SAS....SAS....always a novel idea, but I have yet to see a good looking SAS on ANY Isuzu....but this is just me. Things get a little funny looking with a SAS, IMO.
05/28/2013, 10:52 PM
VXorado

Quote:

Originally Posted by vt_maverick

But is the problem really the trails themselves? A few folks told me the trails were worse last year than in previous years, even on the "bunny slopes." And it sounds like things were even worse this year. Are we seeing the end of the era of stock VX participation at Moab?

Quote:

Originally Posted by VX KAT

Interesting Porcupine Rim is listed in the Wells book as Easy, whereas Hells Revenge and Fins-N-Things are listed as Difficult. I thought it was a little harder than "easy".

It does seem to be the trend that many trails have gotten more difficult over the years. The hardest trail I ran this year was Cliff Hanger and the word is that it was the VX easy run in the early years. Also, Steel Bender's "The Wall" was notably harder this year as well.

I'll blame the Razrs for extra erosion. :p
05/29/2013, 06:33 AM
BigSwede

Cliffhanger is a special case - some years ago it was "improved" a bit by a utility or mining company, I forget which, for a project. Project done, they went away and their improvements were left to deteriorate, so the difficulty of Cliffhanger has indeed increased quite a bit over the years.
05/29/2013, 06:56 AM
tom4bren

KAT

Try to take the blue line measurement in the pic and compare it to the same measurement on the passenger side. I'm pretty sure these components will be symmetrical to ensure alignment. Try to be as accurate as possible in the measurement to see if that verticle bracket was tweeked by that pebble you hit.

Tom
05/29/2013, 07:04 PM
Scott Larson

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom4bren

Scott,

That bracket doesn't look like it's cast. It looks like the same material that the LCA is made out of ... Stamped Steel.

Sue,

I'll stick with my original opinion (even tho the 3rd nutz bros disagrees). Replacement LCA is an option but the original part can probably be made to be as true and strong as OEM. It's just a matter of determining the most cost effective approach to the repair.

Definitely do not start cutting your frame for this repair. It isn't necessary.

Tom

I'll stand by my original assertion Tom, that bracket is indeed cast and welding can be problematic to all but the most adept at it...and straightening cast is not an option, once bent, it is prone to failure regardless of being straightened or not. Can-o-worms now open...:_mecker:

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