It's 10 PM, do you know where your spring helpers are?

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Originally Posted by vt_maverick

None of that makes sense to me. How are you defining "rides 24/7 on the spring helpers"? I bought my VX at 22K miles and the bump stops never touched the axle while parked - they always sat about 1/2" to 1" above the axle. When I removed mine they were in perfect shape, with the exception of some rust on the mounting plate. Why would yours ride on the stops and mine not? If you're not "riding on the stops" 24/7, then they can't contribute full time.

If they don't limit upward wheel travel, then what is their purpose?

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When Tim at SBC was installing my window brackets, I recall he commented that every VX he'd ever seen had only 1/2" or less of space between the rear bumpstop and the axle. He said mostother trucks he's seen had several inches of clearance. Mine appeared to be sitting on the axle. This pic was before I upsized my tires.

I, too, can't see how they could smooth out the ride, or contribute to vibrations like Eric mentioned.....I guess if they smoothed out vibrations, they'd have to be sitting on the axle....which they do on many VXs. So I guess it ends up being a choice for us of: less vibration OR less slamming/jarring:_thinking
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/da.../DSCN04351.JPG


As FYI -Here's one of the front bump stop (I believe there's two sets up front).
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSCN0439.JPG

yes. Keep in mind the vehicle in motion will dynamically take up the small spring helper/axel gap. When I just looked very closely at my high mileage '99 VX the gap was indeed there, but only about 1/2 inch. This will close with speed and the resultant down force applied by air and motion. Thus, it creates an insulating effect by preventing metal to metal contact in the spring and shock body to frame set up area.

I've got about 4" of space between my spring helpers/bump stops... but dont ever notice any vibrations, and can't rememer last time I bottomed out the rear axle... So I think everyone should just lift their VX's!

Right Bob."The Price is Right". Lift or suffer the doom of forever living with the weird influence of spring helpers. A fate worse than d______".

:thumbup:

I think this is a matter of a lot of VXs across years and different types of use and driving style causing inconsistency. My bump stops (VX) are at least two inches from my axle and every other 4x4 truck I've had (3) have been even further apart from the bump stop. Traditionally they are meant to stop frame/axle damage when used during heavy towing or offroading, etc.

Judging by the fact that those who have trimmed theirs to 1/2 their previous height are getting LESS bottoming out and a smoother ride, I'd have to say if someone is resting on there's and CERTAINLY bottoming out a lot on one that doesn't have them at all you definitely need to get your springs/shocks checked.

We've had folks on here who's factory shocks freakishly went at less than 30,000 miles, so just because it's sitting that way on a low mileage VX doesn't mean that's the way it's supposed to.

They are also further apart on my 89 Amigo and my Friends two door trooper. I think if anything it would have been an oversight in engineering with a short run vehicle than a new standard of suspension set-ups.

Then again, I've been wrong before. I was 7, but it DID happen ;-) I KEED I KEED.

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Originally Posted by Bob Barker

I've got about 4" of space between my spring helpers/bump stops... but dont ever notice any vibrations, and can't rememer last time I bottomed out the rear axle... So I think everyone should just lift their VX's!

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http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/315.JPG

Me too!!!!! Although since this picture I added the 2" square tube spacers so they are about 1" closer now. I was preparing for the 35" tires going on as soon as my current 33's need replacing ;-)

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/da...3-1-10_009.jpg
On the left is the 2" spring spacer from Independent 4x and on the right is the stock spring spacer that sits on top of the springs and prevents metal spring to metal body contact.

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Originally Posted by technocoy

I think this is a matter of a lot of VXs across years and different types of use and driving style causing inconsistency. My bump stops (VX) are at least two inches from my axle and every other 4x4 truck I've had (3) have been even further apart from the bump stop. Traditionally they are meant to stop frame/axle damage when used during heavy towing or offroading, etc.

Judging by the fact that those who have trimmed theirs to 1/2 their previous height are getting LESS bottoming out and a smoother ride, I'd have to say if someone is resting on there's and CERTAINLY bottoming out a lot on one that doesn't have them at all you definitely need to get your springs/shocks checked.

We've had folks on here who's factory shocks freakishly went at less than 30,000 miles, so just because it's sitting that way on a low mileage VX doesn't mean that's the way it's supposed to.

They are also further apart on my 89 Amigo and my Friends two door trooper. I think if anything it would have been an oversight in engineering with a short run vehicle than a new standard of suspension set-ups.

Then again, I've been wrong before. I was 7, but it DID happen ;-) I KEED I KEED.

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The VX did indeed set a new standard for suspension set ups. That's what it's all about, with the monotube shocks. If you're not using your spring helpers all the time you will have a noisy ride by virtue of the direct contact between the shocks and springs to the body and frame, there would simply be no insulation factor without the spring helpers. My VX is the case in point, once the spring helpers were installed the ride smoothness increased and the noise level went way down.

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Originally Posted by blacksambo

If you're not using your spring helpers all the time you will have a noisy ride by virtue of the direct contact between the shocks and springs to the body and frame, there would simply be no insulation factor without the spring helpers.

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:confused:...the rest of the points you've made up until now are at least debatable, with a great many sticking points attributable to possible discrepancies in nomenclature.

But there is no "direct contact" between the springs/shocks & the frame, there are rubber spring isolators between the springs & frame, & every shock absorber I've ever seen has bushings in both ends.

But if what you've done is working for you...:dance:

[QUOTE=Ldub;227828]:confused:...the rest of the points you've made up until now are at least debatable, with a great many sticking points attributable to possible discrepancies in nomenclature.

But there is no "direct contact" between the springs/shocks & the frame, there are rubber spring isolators between the springs & frame, & every shock absorber I've ever seen has bushings in both ends.

But if what you've done is working for you. The shock and spring are transmitters between the body and frame unless something mitagates...thus the addition of the spring helpers. It's the meat in the sandwhich.

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Originally Posted by blacksambo

The shock and spring are transmitters between the body and frame unless something mitagates...thus the addition of the spring helpers. It's the meat in the sandwhich.

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Well see there...if you woulda referred to them as sandwich meat, or even ham sammiches, instead of spring helpers, we woulda known what you were talkin' about from the get go...:smilewink

And the majority of this thread woulda never happened...:rotate:

I've always called bump stops ham sammiches...:yes:

The springs have the same connection points as before with or without the Bump Stops. I'm not sure I see this argument.

The suspension type was new because of the monotube shocks, low body roll (stiffer sway and side to side components) and high wheel travel. It has nothing to do with a standard component on every 4x4 ever made.

Sorry dude, I'm totally not trying to be difficult here it's just that the argument doesn't make any sense whatsoever. The parts we are talking about are so short and stiff they would do nothing to help the "ride" of a vehicle simply because of the amount of travel in a suspension at speed. It would be like getting rid of your shocks and springs on any downward movement and only having rebound help.

I'm not doubting that your experience may be that vibration has been cut to an extent, it's the same as tapping a wine glass and putting your finger anywhere on the side dampens the vibration. However that's a whole different thing from improving the ride.

Two or three others in the forum have had the exact opposite experience by TRIMMING their bumpstops and getting a MUCH smoother ride with a tiny bit more body roll. KAT is one of those I believe.

I mean, anything is possible and there are a lot of variables of course to our suspensions but I can't see how these are any more than what they are on every other 4x4 vehicle ever made.

I love our vehicle and it goes farther in a LOT of ways, but let's be honest, it's not perfect and there are some pretty glaring oversights here and there.

I could certainly be wrong, but it goes against every bit of experience I've had with 4x4 vehicles.

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Originally Posted by blacksambo

They don't really limit upward wheel travel as my higher mileage Vx demostrated,.....

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What? Haha, you are not trying hard enough! ;-)

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/da...ations_065.jpg
Here is a shot of me testing out the new extended bumpstops. At this time they were about 2" lower than the stock bumpstops. As you can see without this extra 2" down my tire would be eating up (rubbing) the cladding just above it. Since this picture I have added another 1" to the bumstops (2" square tube extensions) to prepare for the 35" tires. If you want me to take a closeup picture of the bumpstop from the undercarriage preventing rubbing I can?

Here is the new extended bumpstops before I took off the stock mount and added the 2" square tube spacer instead:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/da...ations_003.jpg
Here is the modified stock mount with old bumpstop cut off and new larger bumstop installed, once again this was before the 2" square tube extension was added:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/da...ations_002.jpg
This is the front stock bumpstop (black) and the ultra low profile bumpstop upgrade which actually increases DOWNTRAVEL it stops the a-arm from going down too low, the oposite of the rear bumpstops.
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/da...LowBumstop.jpg
Picture of the ultra low profile bumpstop installed, it is the red round thing:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/da...wBumpstop7.jpg
After installing this new lower profile front bumpstop and doing the ball joint flip I added an inch or two of downtravel and now the a-arms touch the mounting bolts on the front cross member about the same time as the low profile bumpstops. I am looking at getting some more narrow bolts for the front cross member once I install the modified cross member I just got in the mail from Joe so that those bolts no longer limit down travel. Then I just need the ball joint spacer from independent 4x and the torsion bar suspension travel upgrade and the VX will be maxed out for front wheel.

Bumpstops in action saving my tires and wheel wells again:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/da...-22-09_33_.jpg
Here is the a-arm contacting the bolts on the cross member (after ball joint flip and lower profile bumpstops installed):
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/da...6-3-09_032.jpg
In this photo you can see the a-arm upper bumpstops that Kat mentioned that limit up travel and soften bottoming out in the front, also note that the a-arms are not close to contacting cross member bolts, this is before ball joint flip and lower profile bumstops:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/da...6-3-09_030.jpg
In this photo the low profile front bumpstop has been installed and you can see the plate it contacts with on down travel just below it, but I have not done the ball joint flip in this photo yet:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/da...wBumpstop3.jpg
Ball joint flip done:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/da...lJointFlip.jpg
Before and after of suspension down travel with ball joint flip and lower profile bumpstops on front. Hard to tell from the angle of the photos but I gained between 1-2", it was a very noticeable difference especially when looking at the a-arm to cross member bolt change:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/da...owBumstop4.jpghttp://www.vehicross.info/gallery/da...wBumpstop5.jpg

This ia all very nice discussion, but the fact remains the VX did things very differently "by design". We are applying conventional suspension science to a vehicle that defys all that logic. As recalled with the Eldorado stability control, and if you can recall how Detroit inexpensively solved the traditional V-Eight balancing problem (a pulley with rubber bushing integrated...a la harmonic balancer etc.) the VX wanted to offer a new ride sensation for a pretty tall tipsy body (remember the Troooper / Consumer Reports fiasco), thus the invention of the spring helper or the redeployment of the bump stop to address a new issue ....sound level and body roll, by keeping it engaged in the coil and shock motion mix. Believe me it works well with monotube shocks, both with sound and anti -roll resistence. If they wanted a bump stop it wouldn't hover above the axel and would have been called a stop like it is on the front suspension. It's a whole new job it performs.