Damn Hotsuace, you got me drooling! Dared has some really nice stuff. I like my VP-16 integrated, but it has devoloped a hum in the left channel :( So I am forced to have to listen to my Marantz 8B. Oh the agony!
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Damn Hotsuace, you got me drooling! Dared has some really nice stuff. I like my VP-16 integrated, but it has devoloped a hum in the left channel :( So I am forced to have to listen to my Marantz 8B. Oh the agony!
Hey fam2.0. Got an update. I did some reswizzling of funds, some further 'pondering' as to what I should do regarding surrounds - and here's what I came up with. I've decided to hold off on the surrounds until I'm absolutely certain the brand/model is what I want. There are some really good brands mentioned above, and until I can demo/hear them in person, I don't think I can make an informed decision quite yet. Kind of like when I heard the Monitor 9's - I knew without a doubt those were going to be the anchors to my front stage!! I want that same feeling when I decide to purchase surrounds...
So with that said, here's a breakdown thus far:
Dell 42" HD Plasma = Check.
Yamaha RX-V2600 = Check.
Paradigm Monitor 9 = Check.
Samsung DVD-HD860 = Check.
Paradigm PW-2100 (Upgraded from the PDR-12) = Check.
NAD C521BEE CD Player = Check.
There's a new addition to the list - that being the NAD CD player. I decided that the DVD player would probably suffice pulling double duty, but went for a dedicated unit that had better technology specifically intended for CD's.
Now for the monkey wrench!! (LOL - I said 'monkey'...) I've got a modest LP collection I started with 45's & 33.3's. The collection contains everything from old school Petshop Boys to Mogwai. I began the collection back when I inherited a cheap Pioneer setup from my grandfather who passed (the system is long gone/broke). Since I'm putting off the surrounds, maybe I could snatch up a decent turntable? By decent I mean under $400. Here are the brands I came up with:
Music Hall
Pro-Ject
Goldring
Anybody have an opinion/experience with these particular brands when it comes to vinyl? Or, better yet, know of another quality brand that has a table under $400?
-biju.
Can you hear the difference in vinyl versus a CD? With your level of equipment, I would not expect you to be able to discern an improvement. In which case you would probably be better off skipping the turntable and spending the money on rebuying the CD versions.
Plus, a lot of classic albums have had new releases on CD recently that were completely remastered. Even if you can hear the difference between vinyl and CD, the remastered versions often blow away the original releases regardless of medium.
Vinyl is the original high definition format. Digital symply doesn't have the dynamic range that a record does. Digital is a jagged edge that approximates an analog waveform. It doesn't have the secondary harmonics that a real analog recording has.
Its the same difference between a poor quality MP3 recording and a CD, ecxept a record doesn't have a sampling rate, its a real analog waveform.
Biju: I think the choice of turntable wil not be as much difference as the cart you use on it, and those 2 not as signifigant as what phono pre you use. A $20 garage sale turntable and a tubed phono stage will kill $1000 table/cart combo fed into a solid state pre.
Remastered usually means ruined. In most cases there is less background noise, but all dynamics are gone because of the compression used to supress noise. The wort 2 examples I can think of are Billy Joel - Glass Houses, and Jethro Tull - Aqualung. probably the worst 2 CD's ever made vs the record.
This link may help you understand.
http://www.xanga.com/sonickGQ/501878133/item.html
John C.
You are talking about first gen masterings to CD which were often crap. I'm talking about double and triple dipping by the record labels where they RE-master from the original studio tapes and have FINALLY got it right. Just because a recording is on CD does not mean it must be over-compressed.
The record labels are pursuing this route because they can't sell their new artists to anyone who is not brainwashed by MTV, so in order to keep milking that market segment they keep releasing the same albums again and again. Except for artists like Jimi Hendrix who are constantly recording new tracks from beyond the grave, the only thing they can offer to convince people to rebuy CDs that they already have is with improved sound quality.
For example, just about the entire Rolling Stones catalog has been remastered (for SACD, but the same masters were used to make the CD layers on the same discs that only golden ears with solid-silver cables can distinguish from the DSD versions). Similarly most of Yes, Rush, Sabbath (Ozzy Years), Steely Dan, AC/DC, CSN(Y), Simon & Garfunkel, Dylan, etc name almost any great group from before the 80s and their stuff is getting remastered the right way. Even the Tull catalog has received a make-over, yet somehow they still can't get Aqualung right - at least not mainstream CD releases - DCC did a good job, just about indistinguishable from their vinyl edition.
So, for those albums, the difference is no longer equivalent to a poor-quality MP3 vs a CD, it is more like a high-quality MP3 - say 220Kbps VBR Joint-Stereo and the CD it was ripped from. Which is to stay, indistinguishable for 99% of the population.
And to take it one step further - there are plenty of crap-quality vinyl pressings - 'fixing' them is how boutiques like DCC and MoFi got started. Unless you've got an audiophile label pressing or an expectionally well engineered mainstream release, the correctly (re)mastered CD versions won't just equal it, it will greatly surpass it. Super-22Khz harmonics just don't mean jack when the base frequencies are lo-fi - and for those frequencies a properly mastered CD does not just approximate a waveform it exactly reproduces it. Nyquist's theorem is for all practical purposes an indisputable law of nature, just like the laws of gravity and electromagnetism.
People, people...!
Great info, but to be honest - my interest in vinyl might disappoint some. See, I happen to think vinyl's just 'fun'. Yes, fun. It's a good conversation piece, takes a little more involvement and, yes, it sounds good too (warmer).
Sorry for the ingnorant question Hotsauce, but what do you mean by "pre"? Also, what kind of "cart" do you recommend?
Thanks.
-biju.
There are 2 basic types of cartidges, not counting exotics like strain gauge carts. Moving coil, and moving magnet. I feel the MM are better on rock, and the MC show more subtle details on complex music. Until you become an audiocrackhed stick to MM carts. The music Hall TT's already come with a cart thats well matched to their arm.
Neither type of cartridge has enough output to be connected directly to the input jacks of a standard reciever or preamp. Some preamp or recievers will have a specific set of inputs marked 'phono' and they will have an additional gain stage inside.
So, what you need is a phono preamplifier to bring the low level signal up to the voltage that the inputs expect to see.
John C.
The only reason the record labels aren't selling any new artists is beacuse most of them are crap. :goof: Seriously, doesn't it suck when you buy a CD and there's only one good song on it?Quote:
Originally Posted by WyrreJ
There are some remasters that sonund good, the Rolling Stones on SACD that you mentioned, and some that sound like crap too, Van Halen's remasters, to me, sound horrible.
I love vinyl. Yea, it's fun, yea it takes work on the set up and maintenance, but that's half the fun! As far the CD vs vinyl debate, it's all subjective. I have CDs that sound good and some bad and vinyl that sounds good and some bad.
Not only that but I have quite a collection of late 70's and 80's punk that will never be available on anything but vinyl! :cool!: :naughty:
Of course most of it was on very small indi lables and was ONLY available on vinly! ;Dy;
Something like 90% of all media (tv, print, movies, radio, etc) are owned by just 5 companies. The new 'artists' are crap because they are not chosen for their music - they are chosen for their cross-marketing potential. If they actually produce music worth listening too, that's just icing on the cake as far as the MAFIAA are concerned.
Teens are their prime market because they are highly suggestible and have lots of their parent's money to spend on high-profit-margin, disposable junk. Like ringtones - $2.50 on average for a lo-fi snippet of today's "hot" single vs $1 for a mid-fi version of the entire song. That's nucking futs, but its proof of how powerful the MAFIAA's marketing machine has become.
You might be surprised at what is out on the net in the shadows. There are people with similar collections as yours who have invested the effort to "rip" the vinyl to digital formats (MP3 for the stuff like punk where fidelity is not an issue and FLAC or APE for the other stuff). Find the right community online, and you may well find that your entire collection plus stuff you never thought you'd ever find is available to download.Quote:
Originally Posted by Triathlete
Of course actually downloading it is a federal crime with punishment guidelines that often exceed those for rape and murder...
All's well, but - back to the thread topic all...
Need input on components to my setup - specifically (now) the table. Got any?
-biju.
When I was in Japan they have a SUPER store called Dieechis (sp?). They have an entire floor of audio. Everything from inexpensive to $50,000 mono tube amps. Anyway I remember they had these high end turntables that were mounted in 4-5 inch slabs of marble to make sure they were stable. Pretty sweet stuff. Thats also were I picked up my Nachamichi cassette deck!
Here's a turntable for ya: http://www.bswusa.com/proditem.asp?item=TTUSB
I was just about to close the link when my eye caught "USB output"
I have never seen that built into any turntable. You can't really go wrong at that price, just remember that it won't play 78's.
John C.
I've purchased a new place with enough room to setup a dedicated listening room, so here it is.
http://members.aol.com/jchristou/Cornertrap.jpg
Corner traps and rug added
http://www.members.aol.com/audiostor...iatorCover.jpg
http://www.members.aol.com/audiostor...diatorOpen.jpg
Custom radiator cover made in cherry with flipup end storage
http://members.aol.com/audiostorage/Ekornes.jpg
Couch and heavy drapes to kill reflections off rear window
http://www.members.aol.com/audiostorage/CDRack.jpg
New cd rack almost done. The whole wall behind the rack is covered in bass traps.
http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/photos...063/System.JPG
The components on 3" walnut racks
http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/photos...3/Speakers.JPG
The speakers, and more bass traps
John C.
a dedicated listening room? I'm green. makes my little set-up look like a jack-n-the-box pop-up toy... :yesg: :yesg:
congrats, sauce.
-biju.
Not as elaborate but I have a Onkyo 5.1 LS-V500C that I am very impressed with thus far. GREAT SOUND.
http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=...ss=Systems&p=i
Killer part is I picked it up a few months ago for $142 BRAND NEW via ebay. MSRP $900.
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/da...AP_Scorpio.JPG
Got myself a pair of Audio Physic Scorpio in rosenut for Xmas. These are for my HT setup in the dining room. Seen here running off an antique pair of Fisher 80AZ tubed monoblocks. Goertz AG2 cables
http://www.audiophysic.com/scorpio/index_e.html
John C.
If you want some stealth go to AES Speakers. They have in-walls and their subs mount into the wall behind a cold air return grille and also mount into the floor under a floor vent.
http://www.aesspeakers.com/
If you want total stealth go to SolidDrive. These mount entirely out of sight behind the drywall in a bracket that presses the driver against the wall turning the entire wall into a speaker. It works on glass and turns the whole window into a speaker with no moving parts. It's based on US Navy sonar technology.
http://www.soliddrive.com/
If you want ultra sound quality and high price go to InductionDynamics.
http://www.inductiondynamics.com/
And for ultra stealth & ultra low price...I listen to the music inside my head.
I just wish those darned voices would STFU!:naughty:
Sorry, that's a copyright violation. Please pay your 'protection money' to the MAFIAA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ldub
I would definately check out these guys. For an affordable new TT its hard to beat!
http://www.musicdirect.com/product/74202
But as hotsauce said, you could spend 50 bucks on an old TT on craigslist/yard sale and buy a nice new cart for it and do just as well for less. The only drawback to that is you never know how nice someone was to it before you got your hands on it, and just how long it will last. make sure that reciever or preamp has a phono input stage or you will be buying a phono linestage to boot and good ones cost as much as a TT.
Great thread and equipment.Wish I would have read it sooner.I was an audiophile in the 70's,brings back memories. My system was about $8000 in 70's money. Yamaha,Bang&Olufsen,M&K
Also, Half-Speed Mastered Vinyl sounds fantastic!
Just an update to the main system, and I thought I'd throw the other 3 systems on as well.
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3105/DD-18.jpg
Just added to main system, Velodyne DD-18 subwoofer.
http://members.aol.com/gtspec/Scorpio2.jpg
Dining room system. Fisher 80AZ monos with Audio Physic Scorpios.
http://members.aol.com/gtspec/Bedroom_System.jpg
Fostex based bedroom system. Decware EL84 monos, Sonos server.
http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/s/f/1189898895.jpg
Computer system.
John C.
My fellow droogs:
Any Clockwork Orange fans?
I moved my old turntable to the bedroom system, and this is now my main TT.
Transcriptors Hydraulic Reference, with Dynavector DV-505 arm. The cartridge is a Soundsmith Denon wood body 103.
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/9774/hydref1.jpg
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7484/hydref2.jpg
John C.
That is a crazy looking turntable. When I was in Japan we used to go to Hiroshima and peruse the stereo floor at dyechies (sp?). I remember they had high end turntables mounted in 3inch thich slabs of marble to "stablize" them. That store had everything from cheap walkman speakers (yeah, it was that long ago) to $50,000 speaker systems...they had some sweet Kreil (sp?) mono amps too.:yeso:
I had Krell monoblocks for 20 years. Great winter amps. I think they cost me almost $1/hour in electricity to run.
I restored these, and they're my main amps now.
Dynaco Mk III monoblocks
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/da...naco_MkIII.JPG
Fisher 80AZ monoblocks
http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/4967/80azslk6.jpg
John C.
That turntable is a work of art!
Sure it cost about the same as a used VX.....
Best,
After the purchase of my 73" DLP recently, it was also time to update my surround sound. Didn't feel like piece-mealing a system like the "audio purist" I used to be, so I shopped around for a decent "home theater in a box". Found a pretty solid one on Newegg and made the order (not here yet of course). Going from a Yamaha Matrix 6.1 system to an Onkyo 7.1 TrueHD so it's a step up to say the least. Here's to good tv and good video games....
ONKYO HT-S7200 7.1 Home Theater System
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16882120144
Onkyo makes nice stuff. I have always liked their basic looks.
I just upgraded from an Onkyo TX-SR605 (part of an HTIB) to the TX-SR607 to get the additional HDMI ports. Two just wasn't enough. Unfortunately, one of the inputs I wanted to use, my PC, looks TERRIBLE when run through the reciever, but looks great when run directly to my TV (Sony 46" XBR.) And, I was never able to get the audio to work through the HDMI port, so I just ran an optical SPDIF cable from the PC to the reciever, and HDMI directly to the TV. Not worth the money to upgrade for me. But, otherwise I like the Onkyo. The Audyssey equalization seems to bump up the gain too much on every channel, so I get a pooping sound whenever I jump forward on my DVR. I have to manually override the settings, which defeats the purpose. If I was a true audiophile I may use more of the features in this receiver, but i basically bought it to watch satellite TV, and hope it does all the audio processing automatically. YMMV.
Cool thread. I used to run Yamaha brand "flagship" AVRs over the past 20 years, but both versions developed some sort of channel "drop out" over time. I also didn't care for the surround sound of the Yamaha's, which they refer to as "presence speakers" (more accurately, it's "Ambient Noise"). So, I said goodbye to all Yamaha brand AVRs and never looked back.
This past Summer, I purchased the "flagship" Pioneer Elite, SC-09TX (10.2 channel AVR) which has an MSRP of $7K. It uses the awesome "ICE" amp system, and does everything except dispense toilet paper. There is a blog/forum site dedicated specifically to the Pioneer Elite SC-09TX (aka "Susano") on AVS Forum. It's flawless in its audio/video reproduction, and its build quality is a work of art. Pricey yes, but I'm confident it will be the last AVR I will ever need or buy. One look at the AVR "flagship" Pioneer Elite, SC-09TX at www.PioneerElectronics.com will blow your mind to its capabilities.
My next HT purchases will most likely be the EPSON #8500U Front Projector (1080p) displayed on a Da-Lite 160" screen and a Sony-ES 400-disc Blu-Ray changer with BD/DVD/CD all-format playback capabilty. Gotta' buy the best today, because it will be obsolete tomorrow.
Martin-Logan brand speakers would be my choice for speaker upgrades.
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/720/ledsj.jpg
Added LED light strip to the CD rack.
It alternates white with warm white, seperate channel for each, and a remote to dim either.
Lens isn't wide enough to show the whole rack, but the overhead projector(PT-AE2000U) is the middle, so there are 3 more sections. Its all ripped to my server, with redundant raid 1 backups on the NAS. Drives are cheap now.
Nice, I am on that forum as well. I learned a lot there!Quote:
Originally Posted by Riff Raff
I am very happy with my Denon 3808ci. Love my current 7.1 setup, but the next upgrade would be to Axiom 7.2 speaker setup.
Best,
I've got a pretty nice stereo. At the very low end of high end I would say. And high end goes really, really high.
Bel Canto eVo2i integrated amp
Cambridge Audio Azur 840C CD player
Von Schweikert VR-2 speakers
plus and Old Denon DP-15F turntable and Rotel tuner
and $$ cables, interconnects, power cords, and AC filtration.
All the way to 11?Quote:
Originally Posted by BigSwede
Well, 11 is louder than 10, you know...