Kerry has conceded

Bush doesn't outright do evil things..he says he is for all that "no child left behind" bs...then he cuts funding from the schools for it.

He says he is for the Military benifits/pay increase, and VA benifits and care...but then cuts funding for it. So, even if you qualify for these "improvements" THEY ARE ANYTHING BUT A WAY FOR HIM TO BE A MONKEY IN THE LIMELIGHT and get your vote for him to make the country more indebt and ways for him to pass laws and bills that make his investments richer even though he HAS HIS SILVERSPOON SO FAR UP HIS ARSE ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:

I had not seen the transcript of the Osama thing.

This really scares me as this is what ended the Cold War. The Soviet Union bankrolled themselves into bankruptcy trying to stand up to Ronnie Ray-guns strategy of outspending them until they imploded. Then civil turmoil ensued. Ronald Reagan where are you when we need you. This guy ended a 50 year standoff without a shot fired and came out victorious. Too bad his VP wasnt pro-choice. Wait- I take that back. Quayle keeps popping in my mind today. Ok- somebody else then.

More interesting info from Yahoo News

White House: Debt Ceiling Must Be Raised
By MARTIN CRUTSINGER, AP Economics Writer

WASHINGTON - The Bush administration announced Wednesday that it will run out of maneuvering room to manage the government's massive borrowing needs in two weeks, putting more pressure on Congress to raise the debt ceiling when it convenes for a special post-election session.

Treasury Department (news - web sites) officials announced that they will be able to conduct a scheduled series of debt auctions next week to raise $51 billion. However, an auction of four-week Treasury bills due to be completed on Nov. 18 will have to be postponed unless Congress acts before then to raise the debt ceiling.

"Due to debt limit constraints, we currently do not have the capacity to settle our four-week bill auction scheduled to settle on Nov. 18," Timothy Bitsberger, acting assistant Treasury secretary for financial markets, said in a statement.

Congress is scheduled to return for a lame-duck session beginning on Nov. 16 to deal with the debt ceiling, an omnibus spending plan for the rest of this budget year and other matters.
The Republican-controlled Congress put off dealing with the debt ceiling before adjourning in October, preferring not to force members to vote on the politically sensitive issue of adding to the national debt before the November elections.

The government hit the current debt ceiling of $7.384 trillion on Oct. 14, forcing Treasury to begin a series of bookkeeping maneuvers to keep financing the government's normal operations without breaching the debt ceiling. But Treasury Secretary John Snow has warned that those special measures would last only until mid-November.

The Treasury Department's actions have included reducing the amount of debt in government trust funds to free up room for further borrowing from the public. The nonpublic debt is then replaced in the trust funds once the debt ceiling is increased along with any lost interest payments.

Republicans have proposed that the debt ceiling be raised by $690 billion to $8.074 trillion, an amount that would get the government through next September, when the 2005 budget year ends.

The need to raise the debt ceiling reflects the record budget deficits of the past two years. The deficit for the 2004 budget year, which ended Sept. 30, was an all-time high of $413 billion, surpassing the old mark, in dollar terms, of $377 billion in 2003.
Democrats blame the surging deficits on Bush's tax cuts, while the administration contends the tax cuts provided critical economic stimulus to help lift the economy out of the 2001 recession.

The administration says the president has a plan to cut the deficit in half by 2009, but critics contend that the real problems will come in later years as retiring baby boomers put unprecedented strains on Social Security (news - web sites) and Medicare.

In its announcement Wednesday, Treasury said it will sell $51 billion in new securities next week including $22 billion in three-year notes on Monday, $15 billion in five-year notes on Tuesday and $14 billion in 10-year bonds on Wednesday.

Quote:

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Originally posted by SPAZZ
Bush doesn't outright do evil things..he says he is for all that "no child left behind" bs...then he cuts funding from the schools for it.

He says he is for the Military benifits/pay increase, and VA benifits and care...but then cuts funding for it. So, even if you qualify for these "improvements" THEY ARE ANYTHING BUT A WAY FOR HIM TO BE A MONKEY IN THE LIMELIGHT and get your vote for him to make the country more indebt and ways for him to pass laws and bills that make his investments richer even though he HAS HIS SILVERSPOON SO FAR UP HIS ARSE ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:

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Actually, these are "facts" as presented by the Democratic National Party to divide and polarize the American public. Bush did not cut funding to schools or VA benefits, or for nearly anything else for that matter - he did however cut some of the proposed increase. These agencies are all getting more than in the past, just not as much as what they requested; and anyone who knows how government budgets work will tell you - ask for the moon, because it will be cut. Make sure you spend it all by the end of the year - any way you can - because if you have any left over at the end of the year, you get an automatic cut the next year.

I can't continue to listen (read) these rants without responding. It is necessary to think and investigate for yourself what the facts are - the politicians are going to put them in the best light (spin) to present their case. The Democratic Party is particularly bad about fabricating "facts" to polarize the public. I'm not sure why, but it seems that whenever I hear a Democrat talk about politics, it is full of accusations, slander, name calling, and outright anger. The Democrats that I have challenged face-to-face about the reasons that they believe in their party, cannot logically tell me and end up in the ranting and name calling anger state that we are seeing in this thread.

I don't get it, I have a lot of rational reasons for how I believe and how I vote. I try to be as informed as possible about my choices and what I am told. The "why I am" post that was quoted earlier was very to the point and logical about what that person believed and why without ranting - I'd like to hear that same thing from someone with the opposing views, just so I can try to understand where you are coming from. I'm not trying to inflame here - and SPAZZ, I'm not picking on your post, just replying to it. But I would actually like to hear from someone in a rational tone why they voted for Kerry.

Like Ive said since he was elected. Take my damn taxes you idiot- what the hell will a two hundred measly dollars a year do for me, when we can actually have a balanced budget and be in the positive in a few years. That is before you went and blew our lowest debt in decades. Maybe then we could just pay cash for social security.......... oh wait what am I saying............ not running into debt is unamerican these days...........lets keep financing it then you mook. I wish I could learn from a great master like that of how not to run your household. Just finance your life away- yeah right.

again... thoughts on the TAX angle:

People are called 'RICH" because they already have more money than the can use in their normal everyday life. A TAX cut that is designed to ignite a sluggish economy with more consumer spending, is completely wasted on the RICH, which statistically use their TAX breaks for buying wasted second homes, and increasing existing real estate property values. This is the worst of all possibilities to inspire real economic growth. Give TAX breaks to the middle and lower income segments, and you will get a HUGE economic surge throughout all of the economy.

The second thing is that people forget to look at this present Federal deficit, as a Federally funded, economic incentive package. That is in fact, what it really is. And for all of the $7.5 trillion already spent (the greatest debt ever created ) by this current administration, our economy has failed miserably to respond. How does ANYONE pump in $7.5 trillion dollars EXTRA, and ABOVE the budget, into the US economy... and still get NO sustainable economic recovery? (the total US Federal Budget for 2004, was $2.2 Trillion dollars)

I am not sure how you spell "c-o-m-p-l-e-t-e f-a-i-l-u-r-e", but this defines it very well for me.

Quote:

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Originally posted by V-Twin hiCROSS
I believe that the "people" have spoken in this election, and we support W's convictions.

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Well, about half of us, anyway :)

Well first of all, congratulations to all those who voted Bush, it was a clean and honest victory.
My condolences to social and spiritual evolution...:(

Back to the middle ages with ridiculous anti-abortion laws and trampling on our fellow gay friends.... in the name of god....which god? Bush is as much of an insult to christian religion as the terrorist are to islam.

The USA has once again proven to the world why England had done great job in sending its religious nuts somewhere else....it's obvious why...you just can't kill that DNA line :eek:

Your friendly minister,

Dutchie

The Arab community in Dearborn,Mi "where I work" wanted Kerry, that should say something right there. I voted Bush.:D

Redline, in real life don't you work for Vice Pres. Cheney, personally, and act as the Intelligence liason official for the Cheney Select Intelligence Bureau, on how to determine terrorist risk assessment potential for the USA?
You sure convince me!

BAMBAM>In real life you have your freedom/If you dont like it in the USA - move to Iraq.

Redline, I am free today, because of the great American leaders of our past that could distinguish between a real American enemy, and a corporate business opportunity.

Today there are many, many Ten's of Thousands of real people, who lived full and meaningful lives, who are now dead because our incompetent leader couldn't tell the difference. And these dead, are but the tip of the iceberg of what is to come.

The rest of the World relies on each country's government to make this distinction correctly 100%, 7 days a week, all of the time. And any country who does create false reasons to create REAL war upon millions for selfish religious, business and expansionist reasons,... is a rogue, and illegal nation, who the world will eventually unite against.

The USA consumes over 2/3 s of ALL of the world's resources. Now that we have arrogantly laughed down upon the rest of the whole world, while we go after another full time, all night, gas station for our thirsty country,... We have LOST FOREVER, the great moral high ground, that my family, and probably ALL of your families, have paid for, time after time, again and again, generation after generation, to selflessly make the WHOLE the world a better place for everyone,... not just for a few fat-assed, paranoid, re-born, wealthy American consumers.

:rollo:

I pity some of you. It must be truly terrible to have so much hate pent up inside and to have to carry that around with you every day, blaming everyone else for your problems and therefore drastically increasing the odds that they will never be fixed.

How silly a liberal looks to everyone else is directly proportional to how impressed he/she is with his/her self, and everything they say about their opposition is surely true about them.

Quote:

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a few fat-assed, paranoid, re-born, wealthy American consumers.

---

must have hit a nerve on somone! Eh, Bubba? Y'ALL?

Quote:

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Originally posted by redline
The Arab community in Dearborn,Mi "where I work" wanted Kerry, that should say something right there. I voted Bush.:D

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Yeah, when you have friends and relatives being killed and maimed by your own government, a government that occasionally seems to be casting a rabid eye in your own direction, then why wouldn't you be a strong supporter and rally behind the cause?

You let us know when you are ready to cast a vote for your cousins to get cholera and a few limbs blown off.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Heraclid
How silly a liberal looks to everyone else is directly proportional to how impressed he/she is with his/her self, and everything they say about their opposition is surely true about them.

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That statement is fortified with more than ten times your daily allowance of irony.

Quote:

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Originally posted by dutchie

Back to the middle ages with ridiculous anti-abortion laws and trampling on our fellow gay friends.... in the name of god....which god? Bush is as much of an insult to christian religion as the terrorist are to islam.

The USA has once again proven to the world why England had done great job in sending its religious nuts somewhere else....it's obvious why...you just can't kill that DNA line :eek:

Your friendly minister,

Dutchie

---

I don't understand all the posts here talking about religious zealots. I'm a Republican, but I don't regularly attend church and don't preach on the street corner - I do believe in God, but I'm far from a zealot. I don't see Bush that way either - sure he goes to church every Sunday - but guess what this IS a free country, that's what we're all about, he is free to do as he wants in that regard, and I am free to do as I want.

Trampling on gays? I must have missed that also. I'm not gay, but I don't care if someone is gay - just don't force it on me. That is one of the fundamental differences in Republicans and Democrats - Republicans are conservative, but believe that you are free to believe as you wish. Democrats aren't happy unless you believe as they do, and they want their beliefs to be the only acceptable ones.

That statement is fortified with more than ten times your daily allowance of irony.

See what I mean? Someone thinks they're being mighty clever.

must have hit a nerve on somone! Eh, Bubba? Y'ALL?

Yeah, I guess I did with "somone". Probably that "Jewdism" person. :-)

Raque Thomas, good points.

Look folks, whether you're conservative or liberal, we may as well find a good stiff breeze, face into it, and take a leak for all the good any of this is going to do. Wanna talk about VX's again?

Quote:

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Originally posted by Raque Thomas
I do believe in God, but I'm far from a zealot. I don't see Bush that way either - sure he goes to church every Sunday - but guess what this IS a free country, that's what we're all about, he is free to do as he wants in that regard, and I am free to do as I want.

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I don't see how that in any way contradicts an accusation of zealotry on Bush's part. I mean we are free to be zealots in this country too.

I disagree that Bush is free to do as he wants in that regard either. Free to go to church, yes, free to pray to his God for guidance, sure, free to justify his actions in the name of the USA on biblical scripture? Not at all. How far he has gone in that direction I can't say, but it would certainly be an inappropriate line to cross.

Quote:

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Trampling on gays? I must have missed that also. I'm not gay, but I don't care if someone is gay - just don't force it on me. That is one of the fundamental differences in Republicans and Democrats - Republicans are conservative, but believe that you are free to believe as you wish. Democrats aren't happy unless you believe as they do, and they want their beliefs to be the only acceptable ones.[/B]

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Either you have a different definition of "force it on" than I do or you haven't noticed what's been said in the whole gay marriage debate. No queers are going around gving republicans dry-humps and then proposing marriage, they just want to do their own thing, on their own, just like anyone else but that is certainly not what a majority of republican ticket voters were ready to accept in at least 11 states yesterday.

See what I mean? Someone thinks they're being mighty clever.

When you posted a, "I'm rubber and you're glue, whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you," message, someone had to try to make up for the lack of cleverness.

If you are young and not liberal you got no heart.
If you are old and not conservative you got no brains.

The quote is, "Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has no heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains." and is usually falsely attributed to Winston Churchill.

A good thing to remember about the quote is that neither of the modern republican nor democratic parties bears much, if any, resmblance to the conservative and liberal being referred to. Both parties are about serving their corporate masters and manipulating their constituents, in other words both parties are about fascism.

Lest you think I've gone overboard with that statement, listen to what Benito Mussolini, the father of fascism, had to say about the ideology and see just how closely it parallels modern American, "Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power."

Bush is no zealot, but he doesn't waver in his beliefs and will not apologize for them, as no one with confidence in their convictions would. Some people just hate that, but I respect that.

Now THIS is the behavior of a zealot...

http://www.local6.com/news/3887764/detail.html

The Constitution states, "separation between Religion and Government" (stated by James Madison). I believe in that myself.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Dallas4u
The Constitution states, "separation between Religion and Government" (stated by James Madison). I believe in that myself.

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How interesting. Please tell me which article or amendment of the Constitution that statement came from. I'd like to read that myself!

Thanks

Hey,

Lighten up on dubya, he's learning from his mistakes. Look at the condition of Texas when he left the Gov's office..........

State practically bankrupt, one of the lowest educational levels in the country.........................

uh, never mind.:p

I thought this was an interesting statement concerning the election --

"I'll tell you, being a 16 year-old gay kid in Michigan just got a hell of a lot worse. When I woke up this morning and saw the anti gay marriage proposal had passed, I was shocked. I realized the situation I'm faced with everyday in school - the American people have just shown my classmates that it's perfectly fine to discriminate. A direct quote from a 'friend' at school today: 'It's so cool that all these states just told all the faggots to eat **** and get the hell out...' Because of the above events, I am at a crossroads ... I'm the youngest card-carrying Republican in the county, and am constantly asked to get others involved for Bush/Cheney. Herein lies a problem, I can't bring myself to do that. Bush totally lost all my support (I know I can't vote - but I make a hell of a campaigner) when he supported the amendment to ban gay marriages, and I felt bad that in straying from Bush, I was abandoning Cheney, who I have an amazing amount of respect for. Many would say go Democrat... but I can't do that (that signals the absence of a spine up here), and in the next year, I'm considering dropping my membership to the party. Especially this year, despite how undercut and violated I feel as a gay person, I couldn't be happier that I am. I've got a stronger will because of it, and will lead my life just as strongly."

Bam, Bam, you are a hypocrite, you own two gas guzzlers.

You know what drives me crazy is living here in Alabama with all the holy roller fruit loops who have this stupid ten commandments crap that they wanted to put in a courthouse. They were told no, the judge did it anyways, he got canned, and they are actually still trying to do it while the munument is crapping around the bible belt on tour on the back of a truck and they are trying to get his job back. Please fruit loops- dont take your kids to see this piece of crap- take them to a museum or play or library or state park or zoo or..........whatever. What do they not understand about separation of church and state. Its black and white to me. I even tried a microscope to look. I dont see any grey.... I also think that any mention of religion and faith amongst candidates should be off limits. I eat fruit loops for breakfast- they stay crunchy in milk!

Is it the Ten Commandments you have a problem with or is it the lack of separation between church and state? Or both?

Just my two cents, please don't take any of this the wrong way. :) I am an east coast progressive who is humbled (honestly) by the power of the red states.

It seems to me a battle is going on worldwide between two competing philosophies. At the root is the question as to whether the personal freedoms and secular beliefs that we have gained in the past hundred years are a good thing or the cause of unhappiness and moral decay.

I think the culture of the individual coming first and the absolute separation of religion and government (even given the problems it has created) is the best thing that has ever happened to the world. I don't want to see anything take it away.

I know most of you will probably disagree with me, but very dangerous men (in my opinion) are controlling our country right now. The connection between the philosophy of Leo Strauss and many of the men in the Bush administration is easily verifiable. I find Strauss's philosophy scary and fear a future decade of perpetual war. (Strauss felt this warfare and struggle would be good for the morals of the common man and keep the Philosopher Kings, i.e. neocons, in power)

Research it for yourself if you like.

Coincidentally this philosophy and its disdaine for modern secular freedom and liberalism (i.e. modern America and Europe) is very similar to the philosophy at the root of the Islamic Fundalmentalist movement.

Perhaps it is a common idea whose time has come. (the BBC just produced a documentary about these belief systems called "The Power of Nightmares")

Many in our government including John McCaine disagree with these men (the neocons). It seems quite likely that the president's father disagrees with some of the radicals his son has placed in powerful positions as well, though he will never make any public statements that might interfere with his son's presidency.

Please don't flame me, I'm only trying to shed a little light. ;dp;

If you have any interest in the philosophy that we have just given our leaders (mostly unknowingly) a mandate to pursue in force see these links:

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/20...S_GRAPHIC.html
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/200...e_strauss.html
http://www.acutor.be/silt/index.php?id=572
http://www.acutor.be/silt/index.php?id=575
http://home.earthlink.net/~karljahn/Strauss.htm

Interesting.

-- John

Well Said, Jimbo.

Quote:

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Originally posted by jimbo
Just my two cents, please don't take any of this the wrong way. :) I am an east coast progressive who is humbled (honestly) by the power of the red states.

It seems to me a battle is going on worldwide between two competing philosophies. At the root is the question as to whether the personal freedoms and secular beliefs that we have gained in the past hundred years are a good thing or the cause of unhappiness and moral decay.

I think the culture of the individual coming first and the absolute separation of religion and government (even given the problems it has created) is the best thing that has ever happened to the world. I don't want to see anything take it away.

I know most of you will probably disagree with me, but very dangerous men (in my opinion) are controlling our country right now. The connection between the philosophy of Leo Strauss and many of the men in the Bush administration is easily verifiable. I find Strauss's philosophy scary and fear a future decade of perpetual war. (Strauss felt this warfare and struggle would be good for the morals of the common man and keep the Philosopher Kings, i.e. neocons, in power)

Research it for yourself if you like.

Coincidentally this philosophy and its disdaine for modern secular freedom and liberalism (i.e. modern America and Europe) is very similar to the philosophy at the root of the Islamic Fundalmentalist movement.

Perhaps it is a common idea whose time has come. (the BBC just produced a documentary about these belief systems called "The Power of Nightmares")

Many in our government including John McCaine disagree with these men (the neocons). It seems quite likely that the president's father disagrees with some of the radicals his son has placed in powerful positions as well, though he will never make any public statements that might interfere with his son's presidency.

Please don't flame me, I'm only trying to shed a little light. ;dp;

If you have any interest in the philosophy that we have just given our leaders (mostly unknowingly) a mandate to pursue in force see these links:

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/20...S_GRAPHIC.html
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/200...e_strauss.html
http://www.acutor.be/silt/index.php?id=572
http://www.acutor.be/silt/index.php?id=575
http://home.earthlink.net/~karljahn/Strauss.htm

---

All very interesting articles, written by liberal journalists and shaped to prove whatever point they are trying to prove. As far as the "made up or imagined" threat of terrorists mentioned - WTF is that all about?? Did anyone forget about 9-11, did someone forget about the threats continuing to made on the American public by these people, do they not watch their own liberal newscasts showing the suicide bombers??? I don't get it!!

I guess a lot of people think if we leave them (the terrorists) alone, they won't bother us - we weren't bothering anyone on 9-11 that I recall. These people are called terrorists because terror is what they use to further their cause - they will not go away if we quit going after them; in fact, just the opposite will happen. We are the object of their disdain - like it or not. They do not like what we represent, what we have accomplished, or the wealth that we have. The only way to win a battle is to fight. There is a battle right now for our way of life - we must fight to preserve it, or cower in a corner and watch it slip away.

One of the articles mentioned in the above post talked about us going on a empire building crusade in the Middle East - that is not the purpose of our mission there - the only way to stabilize that region of the country is to remove the totalitarian leaders who harbor, train, and fund our enemies, while oppressing and further enflaming their people. That area of the world has been rife with warfare and battles since as far back as history goes. I don't believe in getting involved in a coutry's internal affairs as long as they don't have a direct affect on us. But damn it 9-11 changed that little comfortable feeling that what goes on accross the ocean doesn't have any effect on me. Never in the history has peace been negotiated without first there being a resounding victory. Some people get confused on this issue, and think that we can negotiate a truce - look at history, that has NEVER happenned without there first being either a victory by one side, or a long battle that finally wore down the opponent to the point of surrender. We were attacked unprovoked, we had to go to Afganistan to get them. We had to take out their friend and ally Saddam, I think we'll have to take out Iran as well. The only way we can have peace and stability here is to have peace and stability there - the world is an increasingly small place.

Then there's the misleading, lying Republican politicians - did we forget about - I did not have sexual relations with tht woman - Monica Lewinski?? Of course the religion thing comes up again as well - I gues we forget also about William Jefferson Clinton going to church and mentioning his belief in God on numerous occassions - of course a lot of those times were after he was caught lying, and maybe he was trying to redeem himself??

Where do these dumb hillbilly, Carl Rowe attack dogs come from, who can do nothing but comment about how much their own butts stink.

Try coming up with something like how your own more evangelical moments from a vision of your god really will save the world!

Or how there really was great intelligence in spending $7.5 dollars above the federal budget, and still have a dead economy... Or that the WMD's really Are there in Iraq , but until we all take vows in christianity, god will not let us see them!


This attack dog mentaltity, that has no meaning. Is this all that these republican fools can create. Republicans, please stop being idiot response attack dog . Try using big words and explain how all of the lost USA allies are going to return to the USA's side, because jesus told them to.

Quote:

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Originally posted by SlowPro48
How interesting. Please tell me which article or amendment of the Constitution that statement came from. I'd like to read that myself!

Thanks

---

You're correct... this was actually taken from a letter in the 1800's from Madison. It is primarily what is used to interpret the "wall of separation" between church and state in the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Here is more info for anyone interested in reading up on it:

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/tnpidx.htm

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/view1.htm

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/view2.htm

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/basicidx.htm

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/argidx.htm

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/arg1.htm

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/arg2.htm

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/danbury.htm

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/levi.htm

http://www.fac.org/rel_liberty/establishment/index.aspx

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/madnational.htm

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/detach.htm

Quote:

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Originally posted by Raque Thomas
Then there's the misleading, lying Republican politicians - did we forget about -

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Is this a Freudian slip?? ;)

Quote:

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Originally posted by BaM*BaM
Where do these dumb hillbilly, Carl Rowe attack dogs come from, who can do nothing but comment about how much their own buttes stink.

Contrary to popular belief, hillbilly's come from Idaho, not Kentucky, and I normally don't talk about it when my butt stinks - I do something about it - we have finally graduated to toilet paper from the Sears catalog, and have actually installed indoor plumbing.

Try coming up with something like how your own more evangelical moments from a vision of your god really will save the world!

If you read one of my earlier posts you would have noticed that I don't consider myself religious, and I don't attend church regularly. I don't expect God to save me - that's something you have to do for yourself. The Government's job isn't to take care of you and make sure that you have everything your heart desires.

Or how there really was great intelligence in spending $7.5 dollars above the federal budget, and still have a dead economy... Or that the WMD's really Are there in Iraq , but until we all take vows in christianity, god will not let us see them!

Can't comment on the deficit other than to say that yes, war is expensive. As to the comment of the "dead economy" I'd have to challenge you on that one, as the econonomy is definately improving - maybe you ahve a Democrat govenor in Idaho? WMD's, I'm really tired of that argument. We had intellegence that indicated the weapons, or the capability to produce them was there, everyone agreed to go in - now that they have not materialized, Democrats want to say they had no part in the decision to go in. I don't care if we never find them, I don't care if they were never there - we still did the right thing by going in and taking out a self confirmed enemy of our county who ruled with tyranny and harboured our enemies. Of course at the end we've got to throw in the God thing again. Where does this come from? All Republicans are not holy rollers, just like all Democrats are not dumbasses.


This attack dog mentaltity, that has no meaning. Is this all that these republican fools can create. Republicans, please stop being idiot response attack dog . Try using big words and explain how all of the lost USA allies are going to return to the USA's side, because jesus told them to.

This is a very ironic statement - look back at the posts i nthis thread - which side has the attack dog mentality, with words that have no meaning? Until this post, I was attempting to present my case in a rational manner, and not attack anyone who does not believe as I do. When you are looking back at those posts, look at the theme of who thinks everyone should believe as they do, or they are dumbasses. I am free to believe as I do, and you are free to believe as you do. I am free to try to convince you to see it my way, and you are free to try to convince me of your viewpoint - that's what this country is all about. The attack mentality and name calling is not a neccessary or welcome part of that process - and I invite you to examine the origins of that mentality (Politics - Democrats). I for one, am finished with this thread, and wish you well.

---

http://www.users.qwest.net/~pempem/crowe.gif

Raque Thomas - I respect your opinion and you are most certainly right about all of the articles having bias. This does not mean that they are false or do not contain serious seeds for thought.

You will certainly laugh your #ss off at me (go ahead, laughter is good), but the media is not "liberal".

We see almost nothing in this country, even on PBS, that the big corporations who own (or fund in the case of PBS) our media outlets feel it is appropriate to show us. Large corporations are inherently conservative.

One really must sample the media from around the world to get a broad view of what really is going on. I'm sure you would think this reporting is REALLY liberal but you would see video of the results of American foreign policy that really can open your eyes.

The people in the towers were murdered innocents. They must be avenged.

Past American foreign policy itself is far from innocent. It wasn't about nothing. They didn't attack Sweden or Switzerland. The murderers had (mis-guided) reasons.

Thanks for taking the time to check out my posts.

It is naive to think our current adventures in the middle east are not about having a permanant and dominating presence there for years to come.

The myth about bringing freedom and stability to everyone is not neccesarily true (and not particularly important to our foreign policy) It's like the WMD thing, it will fade away eventually.

The real reasons:

We now have four big bases in Iraq and at least two in Afganistan that we didn't have before.

Mark my words those bases, and the threat of power they extend, will still be there 10 years from now.

That's the modern version of empire.

As Seinfeld said: Not that there's anything wrong with that.

P.S.

Quote:

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I am free to believe as I do, and you are free to believe as you do. I am free to try to convince you to see it my way, and you are free to try to convince me of your viewpoint - that's what this country is all about. The attack mentality and name calling is not a neccessary or welcome part of that process

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I totally agree with what this poster said. If we are going to discuss things political we should try to leave the emotion out of it.

so .....
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Would you rather 'Hussein and company' be in charge of a Middle East 'Empire' ......... ???
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That is what we were basically looking at.
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Now that is something to look forward to .........

sure, the world would be much better off with a madman in total control of the entire Middle East ......
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regardless, I appreciate your opinions and views because they force me to look outside of my (traditional) myopic view ........
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heck, there are still many people out there that continue to think that we made a mistake by dropping the bombs on Japan .....

That was not even a possiblility
The UN sanctions were working 100%. Maybe your scenario is the one preached to you at your sunday school,... but here in the real light of day, such crap is laughed at.