Lots of lift Q's

the dropdown brackets do is lower the front axle to make the cv angle less stressful, but by doing so you lose clearance...except keep ride height.

the rear axle stays the same.

rear diff is higher anyway

Nope, the front diff is a little over an inch higher than the rear and still another 1/2 inch or so higher than the crossmember directy behind it.

Due to the design and geometry of IFS, when the torsion bars are cranked, the center of travel in the front suspension is moved upward thereby achieving "lift". The side effect of this is that you are using most of your downward travel to achieve this "lift". The front diff and crossmember will move up with this procedure as well, increasing the difference between the front and rear even more.

It would be safe to say that dropping the front diff 1.5" to ease the stress on the CV's would make a negligible amount of decrease to ground clearance if any at all.

OK so just to make sure I am understanding all this (the more I read on them the more I get confused) the 1.5" drop brackets "will actually raise the ride height up front"? So when the drop bracket is installed and torsion bars are cranked 3" the VX will sit 4.5" higher, YES? I am wanting to put my deposit down but just need someone to confirm it one more time.

Now will I need to drop the crossmember too? What happens if I don't?

I think I will stick with the 2" poly spring spacer since if I'm lifting it I might as well LIFT it!

OK so right now here is the list of Items needed to lift ride height 4.5" without tires:

OME 912 springs
1.5" front diff drop bracket
2" poly spring spacers
New rear shocks (what size?)
2" bumpstop extensions
crank torsion bars 3"

Items that can wait a bit:

4.56 gears
front shocks (what size?) they are starting to go and I want to replace.

Now anthing I am missing?



Items that I will eventually get installed to make a kick arse VX: (kind of a note to self)

Front hitch reciever
Tones rear hitch reciever
Multi-mount 8000i winch
Swordys beefy tie rods
Swordys sway bar disconects
Ram-air Snorkel kit, lots of silicone
ARB lockers (dreaming)
lots of CF accesories for looks (functional scooped hood insert, mirror covers, halfmoon, dash trim, guage pillar, and replace fake stuff)

Then I will try to enter it into a car show, if I haven't dented the crap out of it. LOL!

Thanks to everyone who has replied to this thread, you have been a lot of help!

the drop down brackets do not raise the front...cranking the t bars raises the front.

So, am I going to need to crank the torsion bar 4.5" to get it to the right height with 2" poly spacers? :confused: So how in the hell does this help if that's the case?

the spacers are only for the rear lift.


the t bars are for the front lift.

but, to save cv's and keep ride height you drop the front axle.

best fix is to replace cv's with some high angle drivelines

So with the drop bracket installed how do I get 4.5" of lift up front, do I crank the torsion bar....
A) 4.5"
B) 3"

Answer is...




























...A ;Dy;

Now your catching my drift!!!!! WTF do they do then????????

That's what I thought SPAZZ...
Triathlete can you explain why you say it's 4.5"?
I was convinced it would be 3"...

the drop down brackets save the cv's from the stress angle after lifting.

if you do not have a locker in the front, then you should be ok even with extreme wheeling. The cv's on mine are still good and I have not had a problem with my 32x11.5 Super Swampers.

Even with 33's you should be ok...only when you have a locker in the front should you be really careful...know when to use it...unless you have alot of $ to fix cv's when they go.


Alaska did you check your pm's???

Ya got the PM, I am just trying to do this lift right. I don't have the cash to replace CV's, and even with my 31" M/T tires my CV's pulled out of the hubs!!!!! Thank god that was covered under warranty! But now I'm out of warranty and want to make sure I do things right, so.... How can I get 4" of lift? I need to fit my 33" tires I have ordered, and I already have the 912 springs.

I'm still convinced that the bracket gives you an extra 1.5" of lift up front. I mean if you dropped your rear dif 1.5" you would get 1.5" of lift why does the independant front susp. not gain any lift????

Triathlete was answering Alaska'a question in regards to the drop down brackets to lower front axle in relation to how much to crank the T-bars

Oh crap, I just realized what you both are saying!!!

Correct me if I am wrong: you crank T-bars to level up with new springs and polly spacers.
If Alaska installs 2" polly spacers with 912 springs, then T-bars need to be cranked 4.5", because this is how much height the new set up gives him. So after all the drop off brackets really do not matter with the chassis height, because his lift is going to be 4.5", according to T-bars.

Now, the drop off brackets will only take care of the IFS, so in reality he gets 4.5" lift, but his differential will hang 1.5" lower. And that's how much clearance he'll loose in order to ease the cv's angle...

But then I have another question...
With those 33" tires, is he going to gain back at least that 1.5" he is loosing by installing brackets? When you install bigger tires whole suspension goes up by the difference in height to a stock tires, right? Please enlighten me...

Oh, and one more thing. I was looking at those drop off brackets, and I was thinking, that even it they bring down IFS, they look like they lift the rest up by at least one inch. That's why I was confused with Triathlete's answer...

I see said the blind man to his deaf son!

OK, So I will crank the torsion bar 4.5" which will give me the lift but the drop bracket will make the CV's at a 1.5" less of an angle. So in other words the bracket allows you to crank your torsion bars 1.5" higher with the same CV angle

Quote:

---

Originally posted by yal^

But then I have another question...
With those 33" tires, is he going to gain back at least that 1.5" he is loosing by installing brackets? When you install bigger tires whole suspension goes up by the difference in height to a stock tires, right? Please enlighten me...

---

Yes I will be gaining 1.5" with tires compared to a 30" tire. 1/2 the difference in lift. So in all the front diff will be 4.5" higher (4.5" from torsion bar cranking minus 1.5" from drop brackets plus 1.5" from tires) and the rest will be 6" higher.

How's this??

stock - no lift - 8" to front diff, 12" to front cladding

crank bars - 10" to front diff, 14" to cladding

crank bars w/ 33" tires (3" larger than stock) - 11.5" to front diff, 15.5" to front cladding this is my current setup


stock w/ 1.5" drop brackets - 8" to front diff, 13.5 to front cladding

crank bars w/ brackets - 10" to front diff, 15.5 to front cladding

no crank, w/ bracket and 33s - 9.5" to front diff, 15" to front cladding

crank, brackets, and 33s - 11.5 to front diff, 17" to cladding


I think my math is right. The original 8" and 12" numbers are probably not right, they are just estimates for easy math.

Alaska, you know you don't NEED 4" of lift for 33s, right? Are just looking for 4"?

Hope this helps,
Brian

Uh-oh now I'm confused again. From what you are saying I will only need to crank the torsion bars 3" to get 4.5" in the front (to cladding). You are saying that I get 1.5" of lift up front (to cladding) when installing brackets, others say no? What is the right answer
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

I want to see some clearance so 4" is prefferable

the lowering axle brackets do exactly as they state..."LOWER" they do not lift anything...........

originally posted by Spazz:

Quote:

---

if you take a stock VX and drop the axle 1.5 inches...then your clearance will drop to almost 7 inches instead of the 8.8

---

This is not correct. When you add the drop brackets (thereby moving your axle away from the body) you are "lifting" everything but your axle. Your clearance doesn't drop, the only way to lose clearance under your axle is to put on smaller tires.


originally posted by Spazz:

Quote:

---

the drop down brackets do not raise the front...cranking the t bars raises the front.

---

This is half correct. They both raise the "front". The drop brackets raise the body away from the axle, and therefore away from the ground. Cranking the bars turns the short independent front axles down, "lifting" the front diff and front end.

One other thing, I don't think you can get 4" of lift by cranking the bars alone. I think 2" or 2.5" is about it. I figure I have about 3.5" of "lift" in the front, 2" from the bars, and 1.5" from larger tires.

I don't want to argue with anyone, this is the information that I believe to be true. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. :)

Thanks,
Brian

Nope, Spazz is right, by lowering the diff, you don't actually "lift" the vehicle. You just help straighten the CV angles.

My previous post was completely wrong and I apologize. I guess it was wishful thinking on my part.:mbrasd: :rolleyes:

Sorry,
Brian

;Dp;

I think you guys are starting to confuse yourselves!;Dy;

1.Springs, spacers,T bar crank lift your vehicle allowing bigger tires.
2.Bigger tires also add lift.
3.Drop brackets simply drop your axle to give your cv's less of an angle which equals less stress.

OK, I changed the numbers, does this look right?

stock - no lift - 8.5" to front diff, 12" to front cladding

crank bars - 10.5" to front diff, 14" to cladding

crank bars w/ 33" tires (3" larger than stock) - 12" to front diff, 15.5" to front cladding this is my current setup


stock w/ 1.5" drop brackets - 7" to front diff, 12" to front cladding

crank bars w/ brackets - 9" to front diff, 14" to front cladding

no crank, w/ bracket and 33s - 8.5" to front diff, 13.5" to front cladding

crank, brackets, and 33s - 10.5" to front diff, 15.5" to cladding


See what happens when I try to help? :noy: :rollp:
OK, I'll shut up now.
Brian

I've been following this thread with great interest as I'm planning my own lift, main problem being getting kit from the US but Tone M is helping me out.

I want to ask one more lift question:
Having read all the different threads on this subject some have said that cranking the Torsion bars has stiffened the suspension but I can't see how this is true. Cranking the bars raises the the front but you still only have the same weight acting down, you've merely changed the point at which the bars act, as I see it.
I'm concerned about this as the last thing I want is stiffer suspension as it's presently rock hard as it is, remember this is a Jap import to UK I don't know if the state side VX is softer. I know the stiffness can be down to the shocks but I don't want to change out to Rancho's if I don't have to, it's expensive enough already.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Col

I think I can answer this, and if I am wrong someone WILL correct me ;po;

NO, cranking t-bars does not stiffen the suspension.
It's the new springs that will change the comfort of drive.
There is noticeable difference in between Isuzu stock springs and OME springs. OME springs are much much beefier than stock. The ride becomes stiffer with new set up, but really doesn't loose on comfort.

For some, and I agree with it 100%, ride is actually more comfortable now, after the lift. Stock suspension is very stiff but it picks up any bump or rock on a road. Highway driving, unless pavement was absolutely perfect, was a real pain. Now I think the ride is calmer, because suspension is not so sensitive (is that the right word?)

I can't explain it but I have always been told that cranking the torsion bar does make for a stiffer ride.

So from what I am hearing I would have to crank the torsion bar 4.5"s Is that possible? How far can I crank it up with the torsion bar?

Then maybe I am wrong. Maybe cranking t-bars makes a difference besides height, but I trully believe most of it lies in springs...

cranking torsions stiffens the ride. The tighter the torsion nut, the higher the lift, which in turn stiffens ride. I have my torsions maxed out. I'm using a calmini suspension and a 3 inch body lift. With my tires I gained roughly 10 inches over stock. Now all I need is to drop my front diff due to extreme drive axel angle.

Thanks for your replies
Whilst I have to bow to practicle experience, as a design engineer I see no reason why the suspension should stiffen but I'm greatly encouraged by yal's comments on ride as mine is exactly the same way at the moment, very unforgiving of anything bigger than a raised white line!

Sorry for hijacking your thread AlaskaVX but I can offer some guidance on how far you can crank the torsion bar.

Whilst I haven't yet taken mine to bits, from photo's I see that the torsion bars themselves are splined at the end that fits into the crank point.
To raise the VX the Torsion bar needs to rotate counter clockwise on the left side and clockwise on the right, this can be done by turning the nut or by pulling the bar out(needs disconnecting at suspension end) and inserting it at a diferent point in the mating splines in the crank point, This is how I intend to make the lift and only use the nut for fine adjustment. This then gives you the ability to go father than is available at the nut if desired.

One word of warning. It must be noted that by turning the torsion bars to achieve lift you are shortening the track of your front wheels due to the suspension points moving on a radius. This may effect handling at speed. I put may as I'm unsure to what degree, obviosly the more you crank the shorter the track.

Please feel free to shoot this idea down, as I say I bow to practical experience.

Col