Not Impressed

apparently no one here has read their manuals or looked at their console lately.

WINTER MODE.

we just had snow and then ice last week. on the snow the VX performed flawlessly.

on the ice it was kicking out on starts, so i looked down and oh my GOD what is that? A WINTER MODE BUTTON! but what constitutes winter driving conditions? surely not ice and snow... jesus.:rolleyes:

so i pushed this mysterious button, anxious to see what my actions would bring, and low and behold, my VX didn't kick out any more!!! even when i tried!!

really people i know we are not physics majors here, but i have driven a lot of 4 wheel drives, and not ONE performs well on ice. ice is slick. unless you have chains or studs, you slide. if power is going to 4 wheels or two it doesn't matter.

snow is another story, the VX performs VERY well in these conditions.

so, before you go knocking one of the best rally inspired, four-wheel drive vehicles ever produced, drive like you have sense and when it is winter outside.....

.... try pushing that big button that says WINTER MODE.

damn.
sorry for the rant.
technocoy.

Yep... winter mode works fine....

Until you hit 22 MPH then it automatically shuts off. I can understand that, but would be nice to have that option up to aobut 45 (city driving).

Who needs winter mode? "We don't need no stinkin winter mode!" To this date I have never even used winter mode. Shoot, last winter I didn't even have winter mode. It didn't work until after my engine was replaced in November 2003. I wouldn't have even cared if it didn't work, just don't need it. Come to think about it, I don't even use the power mode. Never once did I use it with the old engine and I haven't even pushed it since I replaced it. I get terrible fuel mileage without the power button pushed, why would I want worse mileage now with fuel prices on the rise again.;)

Winter Mode does work quite well... The only time I have used it is on a very very (people who have been to Pittsburgh will understand) steep hill by my house that was covered in snow and ice and it worked very well.

But I can tell you that with my old tires, Winter Mode couldn't help.

Joe

Hey Raque, make sure your 4x4 is working. When my 4x4 went out the VX handled like crap on the roads (However thats the only time "winter mode" ever got some use, and it worked well). The TOD lights were still working. Seriously the VX handles sooo well on ice/snow that I am trying to get into some ice racing up here. If your start sliding out most of the time you can hit the gas and bam, 4x4 kicks in and gets you going straight. Either you have a lead foot, can't drive in winter, or your 4x4 is out. ABS is touchy you just need to drive a lot and you will get used to how to brake without ABS.

Quote:

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Originally posted by VX_PA
Thanks for the invite, but I'm kinda excited that there's an icestorm scheduled for tomorrow. I should be able to pull 360's in the ice. Oh, and I'm going to try everything mentioned here,
going slow (under 7 mph), starting with the wheels turned, and using the power button.

If it still feels controllable in the ice and under all the above conditions I'm gonna be back on here cutting on anyone mentioning snow problems. Or I'll just brag about my supernatural driving skills. LOL

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C'mon How can people not be able to spin 360's, upon 360s, upon a 18000's! thats right 18000's.
OK find a parking lot that you could slide on with your shoes. Now crank that steering wheel all the way to one side while stopped. Now hit that gas pedal and keep those RPM's going around 3500 and you will spin an absolutely perfect circle until you let off the gas! I have had tons of people come up to me and say that it was the coolest, tightest circles they have ever seen. And they ask how the hell I can do them, but it's not my driving, its the car! If you keep the gas going you start spinning faster and faster untill you start leaning your spinning so fast. Then you let off the gas, come to a stop, and sit there for 5 min. your sooo dizzy! You guys are letting off the gas or something. One thing I found out is when my 4x4 was out I could not spin the circle I could with TOD, in fact I could only get about a 540 and that was it! If there was such a thing as a broadie contest the VX would put every other car to shame!

Quote:

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Originally posted by AlaskaVX
If there was such a thing as a broadie contest the VX would put every other car to shame!

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There is such a contest. It's called drifting!! It's mostly a popular contest in Japan, but it is gaining a presence in the US. Basically you run your car (that's what they're using preferably RWD) around a track sliding what looks to be totally out of control but not losing it and eating the wall. It would probably be fun, but it's mostly favorable to the ricers. That doesn't sit well with most folks here.

Also, I've been going about the 360 thing all wrong. I have been flooring it straight and then whipping the wheel, that doesn't work. But I still say that no one with a VX should be accidentally blowing 360's, especially if it takes turning the wheel and flooring it. Who in their right mind is doing that in traffic at a stoplight or stop sign? My advise; feather the gas! Or use the winter button as mentioned so many times during this thread. Oh and get new tires. Nuff said.

The winter button is OK if you are having problems pulling away from a stop sign, but it is completly worthless for daily driving. Not only can you not hit the winter button everytime you get to a stop sign, but how about in rush hour traffic? Also, it does nothing for my traction when turning through an intersection or yielding then making a turn (intersections are where the snow tends to get the most mushy and rutted).

I guess I am dissapointed in the VX, I thought it was going to act more like a 4X4 truck, not like a part-time all wheel drive car. As much as I like the looks of the VX, I think the comforts + handling of the car are starting to wear on me. I cannot count how many times I've spilled my drink all down the center console because I have it jammed into that little square change holder thing that isn't quite big enough for a coffee mug. I am also sick of any friend I have that is more then 150# not being able to get into the backseat w/o a shoe horn. My windows continue to go up at the pace of a snail, even after having Isuzu inspect them under warranty and tell me they are fine. The two door part is OK, because I knew that going in, but the fact that the seats don't even move to let someone in is kind of lame. The engine power is nice, but its not any faster then a Trailblazer or most V8 sized pickups. I do have to admit it "feels" faster, but that could just be due to the smaller size and engine noise.

Anyway, enough rants.

Quote:

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Originally posted by AlaskaVX
Hey Raque, make sure your 4x4 is working. When my 4x4 went out the VX handled like crap on the roads (However thats the only time "winter mode" ever got some use, and it worked well). The TOD lights were still working. Seriously the VX handles sooo well on ice/snow that I am trying to get into some ice racing up here. If your start sliding out most of the time you can hit the gas and bam, 4x4 kicks in and gets you going straight. Either you have a lead foot, can't drive in winter, or your 4x4 is out. ABS is touchy you just need to drive a lot and you will get used to how to brake without ABS.

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I assure you that I am very experienced in driving in poor conditions, but have always done so with 4 wheel high or AWD - the VX system doesn't come close to those IMO. My 4wl is working, I did the "circle test" to make sure that it was in 4WD. The issue is the rapid application and back off of the front wheel engagement. Several people have said that a 360 isn't possible in the VX, but I can tell you that mine will do it in a New York minute! Someone sent me an idea to fool the TOD into thinking that it needed to stay engaged - I'm going to try that when I get a chance.

On the flip side, every vehicle handles differently and takes some getting used to, so I'm going to experiment with it some. Unfortunately, I didn't have time to go to a deserted area and play with the VX to get accustomed to its handling quirks in the snow - I will during the next snow, and I WILL remove that ABS fuse!

The VX is NOT for everyone and TOD does not cure improper driving technique. True 4WD (LO) is typically used offroad in difficult traction situations. Maybe you need a 4Hi Yukon (or maybe an Assender) for all your friends to pile in and you can suffer the cost of 4WD HI all the time if you really need it. Oh yeah, a VX can take a Trailblazer BTW....

...they are CRAP! I had the same thing happen to me the first time I drove the VX in the snow with an underlying layer of ice. The stock bridgestones had 36k miles on them. I bought new AT Revos and have NEVER had trouble since. The VX handles great in the snow now. BTW, I'll have to try the 360 technique. :D

I agree with Rich. The stock bridgestones worked O.K. the first Winter I had them, but were not nearly as good last year. I'm glad I went with the AT tires I've got now, but I've seen the tread pattern on the Revos & it's much better than the Bridgestones that come factory equipped. The TOD works amazingly well to keep traction (I get a kick out of seeing the display flicker), but there's nothing (streetable) that will keep you from sliding on ice so be carefull!

Actually it was a coating of ice on the parking lot covered by about 3 inches of snow. I pulled in and stopped, turned the wheels to the right, and gave it the the gas. It didn't start pulling a tight 360 right away so I stayed on the throttle to tighten up the turning radius. Then it pulled a tight 360 followed by another tight 360 but then it started fading off. I could've probably got it back into a tight circle again but there were some parked cars about 20 feet away so I stopped before anything bad could happen. To come out of the 360 all I had to do was a quick counter-steer and the VX straightened right up. Keep in mind this was on ice covered with snow and I still had total control of the VX. It's the tires, I will guarentee that it's the tires! Nothing is good on ice, except my VX with BFG AT's!!

Thanks AlaskaVX for the proper 360 technique. It works!! (On the proper surface):D

ok...I know what it is like to have TOD properly working in any condition out there. It is IMPOSSIBLE to lose control when TOD is working properly.
Amazing in ice, snow, mud, rain, sleet, hail, and those series of grater bumps on dirt/gravel roads that make you slide...and just about anything else that could make you lose traction or slip and slide.

I also know what it is like to have TOD not working properly or not at all...as now I have this problem. I know exactly how those VX owners feel whos VXs' TOD does not work. It feels like you have no control and the rear end is about to swing out to either side sporadicly at any given second.

I want TOD back....has any one else had this problem or know how it can be fixed????


A) My TOD light has never flashed and I have no other lights on and no codes found when tested with computer.
B) 4Low works
C) I have manual AISIN locking hubs and have taken them apart, reinstalled, and they work.
D) TOD lights act as though they try to shift but power does not ingage...lights just flash up and then back down...but not at same time...like a TOD maxing out error or Issue...

couldn't have been from taking the little vixen swimming could it?

i have noticed that if you take it out of power mode it is much better.one of the things causing the rear to slide is the limited slip rear axle.normally when one wheel spins you have the other to help hold you in a straight line.with the LSD you end up with both wheels spinning which causes the rear to slide.and second the stock tires suck in the snow. shawn

TOD IS NOT WORKING......that is the cause of my sliding...HOW DO I GET IT WORKING AGAIN????

Quote:

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Originally posted by SPAZZ
TOD IS NOT WORKING......that is the cause of my sliding...HOW DO I GET IT WORKING AGAIN????

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I have a feeling your TOD is not working. Have you thought of that? :-]

can you not see and read clearly??? if you can then you wouldn't answer with what I just said...


HOW DO I GET TOD WORKING????

OK, here is my take on your problem... first off you say your TOD lights in the dash are flickering like things normally do... do they come on at all if you accelerate easily... making sure NOT to spin the tires? If they don't flicker then, and DO flicker when you get tire spin, that tells me that the TOD computer is working fine as for differentiating the front and rear prop shaft outputs... I think the problem is in the solenoid that ingages the clutch OR the clutch itself. Do you have the VX CD manual? If so take a look at the TOD info... if not, from what I found, there is a YELLOW wire that is for the electromagnetic solenoid... if you use a digital multimeter and measure the resisitance from the YELLOW wire and ground the coil should read 1.4-2 ohms... if it reads from 1-5 ohms, it is allowable... anything more or less and you need to replace it... unfortunately, I think that is a complete overhaul as your gonna have the thing cracked open. The other possibilty is the clutch being worn out... which case is an overhaul too... I just don't see it being anything else...

Now, with that all being said, maybe just MAYBE it has something to do with your getting wet... maybe you have a bad connection in your harnesses... let it dry out good or take a hair dryer to the plugs and see if there is a difference... maybe you'll get lucky.

TTYL!

Coach... I mean Randy (I often forget who I really am) ;)
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if I had my hubs on FREE and TOD attempts to engage...it would attempt to send power to prevent slippage....but wouldn't detect any...so then it would disengage....that shouldn't effect it or be hard on it right?

So unless Tahoe, Lassen or the San Gabriel's are on the route next winter I won't get to try 4WD in the snow. [Having said that there are some roads around Palos Verdes here that almost qualify as 4WD friendly.] Anyway there is a ghost-towning trip coming up out in the desert when we go to some ghost mining camps in Death Valley. Has anyone driven these cars in the sand?

spazz, if i was talking directly to you i would have put your name at the begining, kind of like i am doing know. i do not know what you need to do to fix your TOD ,maybe a place were they fix cars might. :confused: shawn

Quote:

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Originally posted by SPAZZ
if I had my hubs on FREE and TOD attempts to engage...it would attempt to send power to prevent slippage....but wouldn't detect any...so then it would disengage....that shouldn't effect it or be hard on it right?

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Actually YES it would be hard on it... because it is going to CONSTANTLY cycle on and off the WHOLE time you are driving... this would create extra heat in the electromagnetic solenoid coil AND in the clutch. This could lead to failure of one or the other or both of these parts. Unfortunately, to replace these parts, you have to crack the TOD case open... or have it cracked open... which is gonna be costly I would guess. My 2¢ says if you have manual hubs and have them unlocked, you need to have the TOD disabled. I hope you didn't smoke anything... and I hope it doesn't cost you a ton to fix. Later!

Coach... I mean Randy (I often forget who I really am) ;)
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Reply to the original post - Raque Thomas:
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Raque - the OEM tires may be the culprit.
.
I recently spoke with a VX owner - Western PA owner (purchased a new 99) - and asked him about the performance in the snow. He said the VX was great in the snow - but was NOT good with the original OEM tires. He also said the handling was poor in some rain conditions with the OEM tires.
.
t2p

ok... took to Auto Parts store and threw the scanner on just to see if it was throwing a code.

code thrown is P1860...any translation anyone?

I'm gonna go tear T-case apart if I have to to get to bottom of this

Spazz, do a search. Someone just recently posted a list of all the codes and their translations!

Found the post...Click here

Spazz,

Do you think this has anything to do with the whining noise that it's making?? Since mine is making the same sound, maybe my TOD is ready to give up the ghost? If you tear in to it, let me know what you find. I may have to do the same repair.:(

P1860
TCC PWM Solenoid Circuit Failure

Simple math....lots of water+electronics=:waab: :cryb: :sadb:
Good luck with the fix. Let us know what it ends up being.

TCC PWM Solenoid Circuit Electrical/ Transmission Transfer Case Contact Plate 'D' Short Circuit To Battery

spazz, it is the torque converter clutch solenoid.it is transmission related not tod related.i would get a workshop manual cd it has a lot of useful info for diagnostic purposes. shawn

I have one..it is just kind of vague...I guess if you knew what you were to do...then it is like a refresher...but if you didn't kno9w what you were doing in the forst place then it is too vague...

thought maybe someone could just explain how to do it if they knew.....

also my cd rom for some reason isn't reading at all...maybe it is an omen

I still think you have either burned up your TOD engagement solenoid or the clutches themselves. Just my two cents... I would do as I said and test your solenoid resistance... and if that checks out ok, double check that all plugs are clean, dry, and plugged in and if that fails... pull the TOD and tear it down. Just what I would do... then again, this is coming from a person who keeps tearing things out of his VX! lol

Good Luck!

Randy

how do I replace TCC Solenoid... steps by step?......

Spazz,
Step 1: Take out old one
Step2: Put new one in
Just kidding....hope you get your problem solved. I know those Idahoan(?) trails are calling your name!

but, can anyone give a STEP BY STEP on how to change out the TCC Solenoid??? I already knew and stated that it needed changed and yes...to do that one must "Remove old one and install new one.

Thats a tough one Spazz... I mean, basically... remove T-case (do you need play by play on that one?)... clean T-case of dirt and grime (don't want anything in the case when your done)... then from there I would say, drain fluids... crack case open by removing any bolts holding case halfs together... from there, its gonna be a matter of carefully disasembling the parts... you're probably gonna need some specialty tools but I could be wrong. I say if you can't find a manual specific to the T-case, you might want to drop it and find a shop locally who can do it for you... but if you want to give it a shot... just take lots of notes and pictures for your own records.

Good luck... I'll chat with you later!

Coach... I mean Randy (I often forget who I really am) ;)
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I don't think..at least by reading the manual when it was running on my computer...that you have to remove Tcase....I believe it was saying that you remove either the Transmission pan or the convertor sump pan....?
but from there I guess you just be careful of the wire harness and then unbolt old one??? Just thought maybe someone actually knew for sure and if they did they could give a brief description/walk through.

I guess the other question would be....

WHICH WIRE UNDER THE PASSENGER SEAT IS THE WIRE TO TAP IN TO HOOK UP A TOD OFF?ON SWITCH??? Some of you want to answer in vague smart coments ..so I will get things out now

YES- I know it is under the passenger seat
YES- I want to hook up a switch to turn TOD off and on at flip of said switch
YES- I know to turn TOD off and on with said switch that I must hook up a switch to the TOD wire under the passenger seat.
NO- I don't know which wire is the wire that a switch must be hooked to to disconnect TOD off/on with a flip of the switch
YES- I know how to hook up the switch and I know how to wire the switch

Spazz, I believe there is an exsisting post that tells exactly how to hook up a TOD disconnect. I remember it being discussed before. If its not here it may have been on the old board.

Try this one Spazz...
TOD Disconnect