Proof that Isuzu actively supported limited VX sales?

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Originally Posted by blacksambo

How many vehicles can one point to in motoring history that have been test marketed in very-intentional limited numbers that later on expanded to big production numbers? Probably very few.

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I'm not quite sure, but I think the FJ Cruiser falls into that exact category.
I'd read numerous places and dealer also told us (yeah that's credible :rollo:) they were ONLY making the FJ for 3 model yrs...'07 - '09.

OK, great. We bought an '07, first year of production.....but....um....I think they may have gone beyond 3 yrs....like by a gazillion units.

It flew out of the stealerships, mega back order, mega Stealer Mark Up pricing...h3!i we couldn't even SIT IN ONE let alone test drive one! They had one black one pre-sold in the back lot, all we were allowed to do was look at it. And they had tacked on $3k dealer mark up and tried to "explain" to us how that was "necessary"..blah blah blah....

So...The Queen of all things Ebay turned to good ole' EBAY....scored one within 2 days, in St. Louis with 600 miles & leather interior added, and in the color & package we wanted. Flew there, dealership (private used lot with exotics) picked us up....we drove it home to Dallas, like 12 hrs.....All for $3,000 below what the stealership twit was quoting us for the lower model, and no confirmed color, and no promised delivery date....:goof:.

So, of course I had to drive over there the next day and cruise their lot..
oh and I waved to the twit, and then showed him our leather interior ....OH MAN was that fun!!!! :thumbup:

Point of the story: Toyota made more of them than just 3 model years because they could sell as many as they could produce! Cha-Ching$$$$$$

Perhaps I should have qualified my comment to say made of metal-body construction vehicles, that is. (That was of course why Isuzu resorted to ceramic dies.)

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Originally Posted by blacksambo

How many vehicles can one point to in motoring history that have been test marketed in very-intentional limited numbers that later on expanded to big production numbers? Probably very few. That's why the VX was never destined for more than approx. 6000 units. The entire concept of try a few on the public makes no practical sense, at all. It's just not how it's done in vehicle marketing. There is no big toe in the water, kinda thing.

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I think that idea makes sense. I just don't think the dealer markup does much to support it.

i was under the impression that isuzu used the vx to rebuild its tarnished reputation after the law suits and not to make money (on this perticular model that is - with a better rep the other models should be the money makers) - and the dealerships do what dealerships do: make as much money as they possibley can however they can - so... isnt everyone kind of right here?

Their bad reputation can be partially attributed to the GM/Isuzu partnership. Apparent GM figured it was better to buy a bunch of Isuzu stock and make them make crappier vehicles rather than improve their crappy products.

This doesn't necessarily have to be an either-or discussion.

"Isuzu actively supported limited sales" could be said to be true if a person says that rather than thinking Isuzu considered the VX a Loss-Leader product (which the VX's pricing didn't equate to anyway), the provided examples of markups could instead be viewed as a Premium Pricing strategy, especially given the fact that Isuzu planned from the start to make the VX a limited production run (regardless of whether that were based on homologation or production method).

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Premium pricing is the practice of keeping the price of a product or service artificially high in order to encourage favorable perceptions among buyers, based solely on the price. The practice is intended to exploit the (not necessarily justifiable) tendency for buyers to assume that expensive items enjoy an exceptional reputation, are more reliable or desirable, or represent exceptional quality and distinction.

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The VX seems to fit the description anyway considering how Isuzu advertised it at the time, not to mention how visually un-conforming it was when first introduced...and still is for that matter.

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Originally Posted by Y33TREKker

This doesn't necessarily have to be an either-or discussion.

"Isuzu actively supported limited sales" could be said to be true if a person says that rather than thinking Isuzu considered the VX a Loss-Leader product (which the VX's pricing didn't equate to anyway), the provided examples of markups could instead be viewed as a Premium Pricing strategy, especially given the fact that Isuzu planned from the start to make the VX a limited production run (regardless of whether that were based on homologation or production method).



The VX seems to fit the description anyway considering how Isuzu advertised it at the time, not to mention how visually un-conforming it was when first introduced...and still is for that matter.

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Yes. At $29K, even the Wall Street Journal article from 6/18/11 called it premium priced.

Uhhhhhhh, who cares?
Peace.
Tom

p.s.
What dub said..."Nuff said"

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Originally Posted by tomdietrying

Uhhhhhhh, who cares?
Peace.
Tom

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Anyone who made the effort to comment in this thread? ;)

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Originally Posted by tomdietrying

Uhhhhhhh, who cares?
Peace.
Tom

p.s.
What dub said..."Nuff said"

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Ditto!

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Originally Posted by blacksambo

My apologies if I mis-represented your point. I stand corrected on your position.

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Originally Posted by tomdietrying

Uhhhhhhh, who cares?
Peace.
Tom

p.s.
What dub said..."Nuff said"

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Now THERE'S a comment from a sensible man...:yesgray:


Missed you lots this yr in Moab Bro, hope all is well with you & yours...:yes:.:heart:

Dub

I did a lot of obsessive reading before I bought my VX and read a LOT of stuff. Possibly at least HALF of that was typical sloppy journalism - aka WRONG - but here is the IMPRESSION I was left with:

The concept was enough of a hit at the 1993 shows that Isuzu wanted to make it a reality - and expecting it wouldn't "be for everybody" they may have used it as a test for some experimentation. Their engineers indicated they could probably get about 6000 stamps out of the unique ceramic / concrete-filled dies that cost about 1/3 of the price of traditional steel dies and somebody said, "Let's see if you're right." They also wanted the VX to go from concept to production quickly so the other part of the experiment was to bypass a lot of red tape and several levels of repetitive management that might hinder progress so the VX was assigned to a much smaller team. All that worked, the VX became reality quickly and the brains were proved to be accurate regarding the number of reliable stamps they could get out of the dies.

The final product was kinda pricey although and had some nice features, but wasn't exactly enticing enough to justify the price to the general public who test drove it. Had it been a mega-hit, Isuzu probably would have said, "Let's make some more traditional dies and mass produce" but that didn't happen.

Let the heckling begin: I not only briefly worked as a salesman for a car dealership, I worked for the sleaziest company in town. I have seen how a dealer will boost the price for a low production vehicle, just to draw people into the showroom to see something "special." In my case it was the last generation Thunderbird. Sometimes a dealer will hang on to something a little too long and suddenly the "market adjustment price" - $5000 - $15000 over MSRP - can no longer be supported and they dump the price below MSRP just to get the thing off the lot. Example: A guy I met at a car show Saturday said a local dealer offered to sell him a 2001 Ironman for $25k in 2003.

Anyway, all that could be wrong, but it's the impression I was left with. :)

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Originally Posted by RickOKC

I did a lot of obsessive reading before I bought my VX and read a LOT of stuff. Possibly at least HALF of that was typical sloppy journalism - aka WRONG - but here is the IMPRESSION I was left with:

The concept was enough of a hit at the 1993 shows that Isuzu wanted to make it a reality - and expecting it wouldn't "be for everybody" they may have used it as a test for some experimentation. Their engineers indicated they could probably get about 6000 stamps out of the unique ceramic / concrete-filled dies that cost about 1/3 of the price of traditional steel dies and somebody said, "Let's see if you're right." They also wanted the VX to go from concept to production quickly so the other part of the experiment was to bypass a lot of red tape and several levels of repetitive management that might hinder progress so the VX was assigned to a much smaller team. All that worked, the VX became reality quickly and the brains were proved to be accurate regarding the number of reliable stamps they could get out of the dies.

The final product was kinda pricey although and had some nice features, but wasn't exactly enticing enough to justify the price to the general public who test drove it. Had it been a mega-hit, Isuzu probably would have said, "Let's make some more traditional dies and mass produce" but that didn't happen.

Let the heckling begin: I not only briefly worked as a salesman for a car dealership, I worked for the sleaziest company in town. I have seen how a dealer will boost the price for a low production vehicle, just to draw people into the showroom to see something "special." In my case it was the last generation Thunderbird. Sometimes a dealer will hang on to something a little too long and suddenly the "market adjustment price" - $5000 - $15000 over MSRP - can no longer be supported and they dump the price below MSRP just to get the thing off the lot. Example: A guy I met at a car show Saturday said a local dealer offered to sell him a 2001 Ironman for $25k in 2003.

Anyway, all that could be wrong, but it's the impression I was left with. :)

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Clear as water to me...:yesgray:

If the dead horse needed an "I", instead of an "X"...they woulda made more...:yesgray:

Good point Rick, & Jo, :thanx: 4 an excellent analogy...:thumbup:

I'm wondering why the master of marketing has NO response to it...:confused:

Perhaps... WAY book smart...not so functional in real world apps...:confused:

The final product was kinda pricey although and had some nice features, but wasn't exactly enticing enough to justify the price to the general public who test drove it. Had it been a mega-hit, Isuzu probably would have said, "Let's make some more traditional dies and mass produce" but that didn't happen.

Thanks for venturing your impression I'm certain there is truth to it. The high price was indeed an issue ( along with other factors).

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Originally Posted by blacksambo

The final product was kinda pricey although and had some nice features, but wasn't exactly enticing enough to justify the price to the general public who test drove it. Had it been a mega-hit, Isuzu probably would have said, "Let's make some more traditional dies and mass produce" but that didn't happen.

Thanks for venturing your impression I'm certain there is truth to it. The high price was indeed an issue ( along with other factors).

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Soooo...as a marketing genius, the "quote" function is outta your grasp?...:_thinking

Great, now I'm being criticized for not typing fast enough :o

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Originally Posted by blacksambo

Great, now I'm being criticized for not typing fast enough :o

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There is NO typing involved...IF you can mastermind...waIt 4 it...:smilewink

The "quote" function...:yesgray:

There's another thing called "cut & paste" thas pretty cule 2.

You'll resort to criticizing anything, whether VX related or not :dance:

What kind of gas mileage are you guys getting?

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Originally Posted by blacksambo

You'll resort to criticizing anything, whether VX related or not :dance:

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You'll resort to having the last word on anything, no matter HOW unfounded...

https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/im...Lu0n7-drRPAytC

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Originally Posted by blacksambo

Thanks for venturing your impression I'm certain there is truth to it. The high price was indeed an issue ( along with other factors).

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Ha ha... like I said, I may be COMPLETELY wrong about all this (I'd be a little crazy to think everything I found online was absolute FACT.:rolleyes:) I just ventured my best guess based on all the stuff I'd read. If nothing else, I'd think any owner can honestly recognize the shortfalls and realize that lots of people wouldn't fall in love with the VX despite it's little imperfections. :)

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Originally Posted by Ldub

You'll resort to having the last word on anything, no matter HOW unfounded...

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hmmm sounds like someone else but who:_thinking

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Originally Posted by RickOKC

Example: A guy I met at a car show Saturday said a local dealer offered to sell him a 2001 Ironman for $25k in 2003.

Anyway, all that could be wrong, but it's the impression I was left with. :)

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I bought a 2001 Proton in 2002 for $23,995. At the time we were dickering on the price I did an internet search and found 60 NEW Vehicrosses for sale around the country for $23,995. Given that the 2003 year model vehicles were coming out making a 2001 2 years old you have to allow for the fact the sales just weren't there

WOW...

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Originally Posted by VXR

hmmm sounds like someone else but who:_thinking

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Yet another sniping shot......:thumbdn:


Jo

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Originally Posted by JoFotoz

WOW...

Yet another sniping shot......:thumbdn:

Jo

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WOW...

Yet another hypocritical shot....... ;)

Seriously??

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Originally Posted by Y33TREKker

WOW...

Yet another hypocritical shot....... ;)

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...if so my bad.

I dont believe I make a habit of popping into threads which I am not already participating in...

...and simply dropping snide comments .

Do correct me if I am wrong ..

Jo

Well sure, if we're going to start classifying different types of sniping shots, what you've said is true, but come on...seriously?

Yup, seriously.

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Originally Posted by Y33TREKker

Well sure, if we're going to start classifying different types of sniping shots, what you've said is true, but come on...seriously?

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Partaking in a lively debate, even argument or disagreement is one thing..
...and I (we!) certainly do that :p

Throwing stones from beyond the field of play was/is my point...

:_beer:

Jo

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Originally Posted by circmand

I bought a 2001 Proton in 2002 for $23,995. At the time we were dickering on the price I did an internet search and found 60 NEW Vehicrosses for sale around the country for $23,995. Given that the 2003 year model vehicles were coming out making a 2001 2 years old you have to allow for the fact the sales just weren't there

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Well, you have to ask "why" questions about the sales not being there. Here's one idea: 1999 marked the end of the Astral Silver paint color. They sold 1024 in this color. It accounted for approx half of total year one sales. Far and away out selling either the black or white paint colors (the black they kept alive through 2001). Why eliminate your far and away best color seller??? It makes no sense??? (Once again, it appears that Isuzu didn't seriously care about marketing this vehicle, from any vantage point, whether it was price or features.)

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Originally Posted by circmand

I bought a 2001 Proton in 2002 for $23,995. At the time we were dickering on the price I did an internet search and found 60 NEW Vehicrosses for sale around the country for $23,995.

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Wowee... that was a GREAT deal! Congrats, Circ! :) :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by blacksambo

Well, you have to ask "why" questions about the sales not being there. Here's one idea: 1999 marked the end of the Astral Silver paint color. They sold 1024 in this color. It accounted for approx half of total year one sales. Far and away out selling either the black or white paint colors (the black they kept alive through 2001). Why eliminate your far and away best color seller??? It makes no sense??? (Once again, it appears that Isuzu didn't seriously care about marketing this vehicle, from any vantage point, whether it was price or features.)

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When I was shopping, Astral was my preferred choice!

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Originally Posted by blacksambo

Well, you have to ask "why" questions about the sales not being there. Here's one idea: 1999 marked the end of the Astral Silver paint color. They sold 1024 in this color. It accounted for approx half of total year one sales. Far and away out selling either the black or white paint colors (the black they kept alive through 2001). Why eliminate your far and away best color seller??? It makes no sense??? (Once again, it appears that Isuzu didn't seriously care about marketing this vehicle, from any vantage point, whether it was price or features.)

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You cant fix stupid

Can we agree that Isuzu was not focused on long-term sales of the VX, using it rather as a marketing tool, placing it in their dealerships to generate interest, much as Ford did with their GT? Didn't think so...:_mecker:

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Originally Posted by Scott Larson

Can we agree that Isuzu was not focused on long-term sales of the VX, using it rather as a marketing tool, placing it in their dealerships to generate interest, much as Ford did with their GT? Didn't think so...:_mecker:

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Couldn't agree more...:thumbup:

The VX was absolutely a HALO vehicle...(From wikipedia: The term "halo car" is often used in automotive marketing and journalism to refer to the flagship vehicle. The term is derived from the halo effect, the tendency for a favorable trait to influence the perception of subsequent traits in a sequence of interpretations; it appears to have been used as early as 1938.)

My only point through this entire morass has been...:rolleyesg

If there was demand, they woulda figured out a way to market more, in about 2 seconds...:yesgray:


NOT that far fetched, IMO...:_confused

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Originally Posted by VXR

hmmm sounds like someone else but who:_thinking

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:_confused...that's a pretty intelligent statement/query,...all things considered...:yesgray:

I'm guessing it was probably someone who knows how/when to use capital letters, commas, & question marks...but that's just a guess...:smilewink

Being the third owner of mine, I can't say that I didn't like the price brand new or if it was too high. But I did buy an $8 potato once (never doing that again)

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Originally Posted by JoFotoz

Throwing stones from beyond the field of play was/is my point...

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remember this???

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Originally Posted by JoFotoz

Throwing stones from beyond the field of play was/is my point...
Jo

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Again...seriously?

Just so I have this straight, you ARE trying to DEFEND your own past actions...right?

:p

Sure I remember..

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Originally Posted by VXR

remember this???

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...its one of several post I made in that thread, commenting on the topic.

Wanna try again?

jo

:confused:

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Originally Posted by Y33TREKker

Again...seriously?
Just so I have this straight, you ARE trying to DEFEND your own past actions...right?
:p

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:snooz:

Jo

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Originally Posted by JoFotoz

:confused:

:snooz:

Jo

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About what I expected, but had to be fair and give you a chance anyway. Don't you go changin' now. ;)