how many are left?

I did a similar exercise last year and came up with approximately 2300 still on the road (if I remember correctly).

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Originally Posted by rsteinmetz70112

I did a similar exercise last year and came up with approximately 2300 still on the road (if I remember correctly).

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I'd be surprised if there were many more than this left on the road. Have to consider how many were lost by drivers who thought they were as unstoppable as they looked.

Consider also how many accidents we've heard about from members here in just the past few months.

-V

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Originally Posted by Vendetta

I'd be surprised if there were many more than this left on the road. Have to consider how many were lost by drivers who thought they were as unstoppable as they looked.

Consider also how many accidents we've heard about from members here in just the past few months.

-V

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But most of them were reported as being repaired

My Calculation was based on an attrition curve I found on the Internet somewhere, so it has to be right.

I write when I have time, and I have been looking for a topic. I have written auto articles before for a couple places, and some other piddling stuff (nothing that made any money or got any recognition). And here I have the most well informed resources possible.

You guys think I should take a crack at a VX book? Is anyone else going to? I would need help setting up the theme/format (story format, reference format, chronological or topical, etc)...then I'd have to find the time to crank out a draft that you lot can proceed to rip to pieces.

Regarding how many are left though, I would think close to half have fallen by the wayside just because of location (i.e. rust in coastal areas), lack of care for non-enthusiasts, and the typical life of a car on American roads. You can't assume the majority of original purchasers were VX "enthusiasts" because there by definition couldn't have been any when they came out. Sure people bought them because they appealed to them at the time, but they wouldn't all have been seen as future collectibles or rarities by most purchasers. And in 2001 not many people could or would have looked up that only 4150 of them were imported to the US. That's a luxury of information we have at our fingertips now.

I guess the research for a book might give us the whole story.

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Originally Posted by twalker920

...You can't assume the majority of original purchasers were VX "enthusiasts" because there by definition couldn't have been any when they came out.

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Can't speak about the majority, but I was most definitely an "enthusiast" when I purchased. And I've got a file full of the pre-launch marketing materials to show for it. I'd be surprised if I were the only one.

-V

I've been saying book quite some time now. We have the knowlege, just need the muscle to "Git R Done". Then the world will know what we've got. There was a book in Japan, a long time ago. Does any body have a copy we could translate?

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Originally Posted by twalker920

I write when I have time, and I have been looking for a topic. I have written auto articles before for a couple places, and some other piddling stuff (nothing that made any money or got any recognition). And here I have the most well informed resources possible.

You guys think I should take a crack at a VX book? Is anyone else going to? I would need help setting up the theme/format (story format, reference format, chronological or topical, etc)...then I'd have to find the time to crank out a draft that you lot can proceed to rip to pieces.

Regarding how many are left though, I would think close to half have fallen by the wayside just because of location (i.e. rust in coastal areas), lack of care for non-enthusiasts, and the typical life of a car on American roads. You can't assume the majority of original purchasers were VX "enthusiasts" because there by definition couldn't have been any when they came out. Sure people bought them because they appealed to them at the time, but they wouldn't all have been seen as future collectibles or rarities by most purchasers. And in 2001 not many people could or would have looked up that only 4150 of them were imported to the US. That's a luxury of information we have at our fingertips now.

I guess the research for a book might give us the whole story.

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apparently the main designer of the vx also designed quite a few other popular vehicles - i think when most people that hear that the vx was produced in low numbers they automatically assume that is because it was flawed or useless or just didnt sell well, but if people knew the true story of why they were limited and that it was done on purpose it might enlighten a few more auto enthusiasts to join our cause - or if nothing else it might raise the percentage of people who know what they are from 3% to 4% - either way its a book i would buy - and has anyone ever tried writing a letter or email to a car show like gears or something about the vehicross? might be able to get someone like that to do a lot of the research for you - and imagine what could happen to a vx if someone had that type of budget to put towards the mods...

Given how few there were it would not be impossible to build a database to try to capture all all of them. (Google Docs or something?)

As to the numbers built I'm pretty sure if it had taken of Isuzu, would have made more.

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Originally Posted by rsteinmetz70112

Given how few there were it would not be impossible to build a database to try to capture all all of them. (Google Docs or something?)

As to the numbers built I'm pretty sure if it had taken of Isuzu, would have made more.

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from what ive heard isuzu couldnt make more because the molds were hand carved and then the dies then made of ceramic - ceramic is only good for a limited number of impressions before it wears out - so unless the artist who carved the original body could reproduce the exact carvings again (unlikely) they could never ever be the exactly the same as the vx we all know and love - on top of that there was so much spent on r&d they couldnt possibly have make the dies out of steel and still sell the vx new for anything close to affordable - also heard another rumor about the reason isuzu made the vx was to get people into the showroom so they would be impressed by isuzu's technology but then end up buying one of the more inexpensive models like a trooper or rodeo - like a promotional item of sorts
--but of course i have no way for sure of knowing if any of these are true

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Originally Posted by evillecutter

from what ive heard isuzu couldnt make more because the molds were hand carved and then the dies then made of ceramic - ceramic is only good for a limited number of impressions before it wears out - so unless the artist who carved the original body could reproduce the exact carvings again (unlikely) they could never ever be the exactly the same as the vx we all know and love - on top of that there was so much spent on r&d they couldnt possibly have make the dies out of steel and still sell the vx new for anything close to affordable - also heard another rumor about the reason isuzu made the vx was to get people into the showroom so they would be impressed by isuzu's technology but then end up buying one of the more inexpensive models like a trooper or rodeo - like a promotional item of sorts
--but of course i have no way for sure of knowing if any of these are true

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You wouldn't need a new carving. You could make a reverse mold of the mold then recreate the mold itself from the reverse. And even if they werent the same it could be explained away by claiming a new look after 3 years. However given that the VX didn't sell that great (I bought my 2001 VX in June 2002) That means there were still new VXs for sale (Ifound 60 when looking for $23,995) when the 2003 models were coming out. So sitting on a lot for 2 years before selling is not want a dealer expects.

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Originally Posted by evillecutter

from what ive heard isuzu couldnt make more because the molds were hand carved and then the dies then made of ceramic - ceramic is only good for a limited number of impressions before it wears out - so unless the artist who carved the original body could reproduce the exact carvings again (unlikely) they could never ever be the exactly the same as the vx we all know and love - on top of that there was so much spent on r&d they couldnt possibly have make the dies out of steel and still sell the vx new for anything close to affordable - also heard another rumor about the reason isuzu made the vx was to get people into the showroom so they would be impressed by isuzu's technology but then end up buying one of the more inexpensive models like a trooper or rodeo - like a promotional item of sorts
--but of course i have no way for sure of knowing if any of these are true

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Most (if not all) of that is true:yesb:

"Cars, prepare for extinction" read Isuzu's intimidating introduction to the VehiCROSS.

And evolution may indeed have favored the SUV over the last decade. But the VX, our beautiful mutation that arguably started the trend of aggressively-styled production sport utes, was itself, "deselected."

If it sold well enough, it would not have been discontinued. Period. Regardless of stamping materials or technology or whathaveyou, Isuzu would have figured out a way to not sunset a successful model.

For my part, I'm glad they were a limited run. I've gone literally YEARS without seeing another on the road. Makes me appreciate not only what I've got, but also the people who share my pride in owning a rarity like ours.

Cheers, people.
-V

Wasn't original MSRP sticker price somewhere around $35k too? That couldn't have helped much at the time when it came to high sales numbers.

These days it would probably be a different story when relatively run of the mill vehicles can be in that same ballpark, so seeing as how I found a very nice example when I did for what I considered a fair price given it's condition, my thought is to just chalk it all up to the VX stars aligning in my favor at the right time.

Should the stars align again in the future positively affecting the value of my VX even better, but for now I'm satisfied with the way things have turned out.

i was talking to the janitor at my daughter's school a few weeks ago and he said he actually worked at an isuzu dealership when they first came out and people went crazy over them but didnt want to buy one because they were around 35k and everyone was worried the cladding would look like crap after a few years - he even said at his dealership they priced it above msrp because they liked having it in the showroom to draw people in - didnt think to ask where that dealership was but he did say it was silver and he only remembers them having one and noone bought it while he worked there

Well said...X2

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Originally Posted by Vendetta

For my part, I'm glad they were a limited run. I've gone literally YEARS without seeing another on the road. Makes me appreciate not only what I've got, but also the people who share my pride in owning a rarity like ours.

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Never was a mass produced mustang/taurus/camry/explorer type ;puke2;

Gimme something a bit unique every time......:thumbup:


jo

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Originally Posted by evillecutter

i was talking to the janitor at my daughter's school a few weeks ago and he said he actually worked at an isuzu dealership when they first came out and people went crazy over them but didnt want to buy one because they were around 35k and everyone was worried the cladding would look like crap after a few years - he even said at his dealership they priced it above msrp because they liked having it in the showroom to draw people in - didnt think to ask where that dealership was but he did say it was silver and he only remembers them having one and noone bought it while he worked there

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Was that an Evansville Isuzu dealership? If so, it would have to be the one where a girl I knew from high school bought her '01 Proton. She was actually trying to sell it when I was in the market for a VX, but I obviously ended up going with an Ebony.

i'll ask next time i see him but i do remember him saying it was silver - i didnt talk to him long but it sure seemed to put a smile on his face seeing mine and remembering that one

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Originally Posted by Vendetta

it would not have been discontinued

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it was not discontinued:nob:

they made as many as they initially intended to:yesb:

Of course, it's called hedging a bet. Despite all their marketing bluster about cars becoming extinct and the VX taking over the world (not happening with 6,000 or so units), they said officially it was a proof of concept for a new manufacturing method using cheaper but shorter-lived ceramic stamps.

But if it flew off the dealers' lots, as opposed to languishing there for years in some cases, you can be certain they would have "intended" to make more of them.

-V

You're forgetting that Isuzu had a bad name for the Trooper rollovers. I think this was a major part of the Isuzu failure in America.

While the Isuzu's enjoyed moderate success in the 4x4 infancy, the Jeep/FORD market was able to capitalize.

You may point out (and rightly so) that the Ford's also had issue's with hwy rollovers. But, they were successful in pointing the finger at Bridgestone. So, they recovered.

Trooper had no scapegoat. The brand was damaged. Whether the lack of advertising or something else, I don't think they did enough to save the brand.

It could be that reliablity and/or fuel enonomy issues didn't help either. People tend to buy America unless their preferred vehicle class has a better foreign model in terms of reliability/economy ratings.

In my jaded view of things, I also think corporate giants would never pass up on the opportunity to continue making money on a product. OTOH, I don't know much about the mold method desribed here. At least not in terms of production costs and how profitable/costly the VX might have been. So, the issue of continued production might not be so clear.

I'd like to think of the VX as an under-advertised icon of the Isuzu era....as a vehicle worth more than the sum of it's parts. In the Chevrolet community, I'm sure they could manufacture and sell Corvettes for much less than they do. But, their goal is to create an icon...a legend...to boost the brand name of Chevrolet. In doing so, they can make money for the brand without every car sold actually BEING a Corvette. Obviously, people have different needs for a vehicle.

In the case of a small 2-door "performance" 4x4, I'm not sure Isuzu was positioned as the brand people wanted to be associated with...especially being a foreign brand associated with the 4x4 rollover era. But, that doesn't mean the Vehicross couldn't have been something much bigger -- if the right advertising campaign had been in place.

I know the Isuzu brand name never was sold on me. I didn't by a VX because it was an Isuzu...I did so despite that. It's the first foreign vehicle I've owned since I was very young. Granted, it's made from some heavy Chevy heritage....but I never would have know that w/o coming to this forum.

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Originally Posted by Vendetta

Of course, it's called hedging a bet. Despite all their marketing bluster about cars becoming extinct and the VX taking over the world (not happening with 6,000 or so units), they said officially it was a proof of concept for a new manufacturing method using cheaper but shorter-lived ceramic stamps.

But if it flew off the dealers' lots, as opposed to languishing there for years in some cases, you can be certain they would have "intended" to make more of them.

-V

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Never wanted to make more of them. They made 5K for FIA homologation production rally-entry purposes period. They won several stages of Paris Dakar rally before running out of basic parts and retiring. They also were the overall class winner of the Australian Safari Rally. As for languishing sales, the VX was $30K plus in the USA, with two semi-useless entry doors for the back seat. Of course they knew this fact. Families, unless they were rich stalwarts could not use them. It's also true that inspite of winnimg Japan Car of The Year in 97/98, only 600 could be sold there (120 million people live in Japan). It was an exclusive car right from the get go. It was for a select audience and never intended for mass consumption. The ceramic dies were for time saving production, strictly. Get it out there and race and win, over and out. Hope a few collector types grab a few, because we are not making any more. You'll notice Isuzu still makes most all parts available to us if we are willing to pay. Isuzu is the biggest diesel engine builder in the world, but still enjoy the VX halo effect because of its racing and award winning exploits. The VX continues to be good business for them. This web site attests to that fact.

So..the Cliff notes.

I love my VX

:thumbup:

Yup...

Jo

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Originally Posted by Vendetta

But if it flew off the dealers' lots, as opposed to languishing there for years in some cases, you can be certain they would have "intended" to make more of them.

-V

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Originally Posted by blacksambo

Never wanted to make more of them. They made 5K for FIA homologation production rally-entry purposes period.

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I think you missed the point being made.

What point is being missed???

I think it's because you seemed to support V's point....

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Originally Posted by blacksambo

As for languishing sales, the VX was $30K plus in the USA, with two semi-useless entry doors for the back seat. Of course they knew this fact. Families, unless they were rich stalwarts could not use them. It's also true that inspite of winnimg Japan Car of The Year in 97/98, only 600 could be sold there (120 million people live in Japan). It was an exclusive car right from the get go. It was for a select audience and never intended for mass consumption.

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Seems like both you and V feel the lack of higher sales were a result of the limited audience that would be interested...and probably due to the lack of common family leverage for a 2-dr with hindered back-seat entry. Combined with the price tag, that couldn't have helped.

If the demand were there, more would have been made.

The question is why was their a lack of demand. I think you answered it -- for you.

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Originally Posted by blacksambo

What point is being missed???

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I highlighted/underscored V's point, which you quoted, as clearly as I could...mebbe I should have increased the size of the font a little more...:_thinking

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Originally Posted by 89Vette

If the demand were there, more would have been made.

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BINGO!

Okay let's get something straight here. Isuzu bragged in their ads about the VX being hand assembled, for instance. Now does that sound like a car they really wanted to make lots of? You know in the twenty-first century, tens of thousands of hand assembled cars??? No, it defintely says limited production only on this model. Think about it, it's illegal to bait and switch, so you can't make VX's by hand for a while, advertise this salient fact and then start making thousands with robots and still claim to have the same car. That would be some other car , altogether. Also, they bragged about the limited use ceramic dies. Now does that sound like they could make a lot of them? Emphatically, no! They put the brakes on the VX production ceiling coming on to the market, period.

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Originally Posted by blacksambo

Okay let's get something straight here. Isuzu bragged in their ads about the VX being hand assembled, for instance. Now does that sound like a car they really wanted to make lots of? You know in the twenty-first century, tens of thousands of hand assembled cars??? No, it defintely says limited production only on this model. Think about it, it's illegal to bait and switch, so you can't make VX's by hand for a while, advertise this salient fact and then start making thousands with robots and still claim to have the same car. That would be some other car , altogether. Also, they bragged about the limited use ceramic dies. Now does that sound like they could make a lot of them? Emphatically, no! They put the brakes on the VX production ceiling coming on to the market, period.

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If they were flying off dealer lots as fast as they were being produced, you can bet a paycheck that they'd have produced more molds & continued on their merry way...mebbe by rebadging as VXII, or some other way...they'd have figured it out...that's how business does business...:yesgray:

If you wanna bang that tired old Isuzu drum to the exclusion of reality, that's your business...:thumbup:

Enjoy

Speaking of how business does business...I just discovered an expiration date on a bar of soap...:confused:

Do I believe that I'll get no bubbles the day after it expires?...NO

Do I believe that my pits will not get clean after expiry?...NO

Do I believe that they'd like me to believe that, & buy more soap?...YES

Well you obviously don't understand big business, you can't change you basic premise and expect to stay in business, for too long. First, you'll be sued, second you loose tremendous credibility with everybody especially the auto motive press (there is no bar soap press so you get a little more leeway here) because you've all too conveniently changed your tune, now that things look more opportunistic. Big business just doesn't operate that way, especially General Motors or Ford. They go off course in their messging, they get sued but good and the press damns them to death, they are big easy to hit targets. VX was hand assembeled, a major selling point, you just can't eventually work your way around that fact.

But more to the general point, large vehicle manufacturers do not try new models out for sales potential in miniscule numbers and then build thousands more the next year if it attracts sales. They launch new models on a large scale and hope for the best. I don't know of any hand-assembled trial level new model experiments in the big-player car industry in the past fifty years. We're talking about the age of mass production here, especially for General Motors. The VX was production-wise inachronistic, at best, and too terribly impractical for everyday use to ever be a sales volume contender. Face it you own an experimental vehicle, that destined for a limited elite audience . It wasn't supposed to win the popularity contest. If it could have, it would have been a failure at its intended purpose and would have never got off the initial drawing board.

Always happy to agree to disagree...:yes:.:flower:

Your beliefs are your own, as are mine.

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Originally Posted by blacksambo

But more to the general point, large vehicle manufacturers do not try new models out for sales potential in miniscule numbers and then build thousands more the next year if it attracts sales. They launch new models on a large scale and hope for the best.

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Nobody here ever claimed otherwise...:_confused

The point being discussed began with "IF"...it was hypothetical...:yesgray:

Watch this video and you'll never want to sell your VX. History of the vehiCross http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSkacZvcB7Q

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Originally Posted by blacksambo

Well you obviously don't understand big business, you can't change you basic premise and expect to stay in business, for too long. First, you'll be sued, second you loose tremendous credibility with everybody especially the auto motive press (there is no bar soap press so you get a little more leeway here) because you've all too conveniently changed your tune, now that things look more opportunistic. Big business just doesn't operate that way, especially General Motors or Ford. They go off course in their messging, they get sued but good and the press damns them to death, they are big easy to hit targets. VX was hand assembeled, a major selling point, you just can't eventually work your way around that fact.

But more to the general point, large vehicle manufacturers do not try new models out for sales potential in miniscule numbers and then build thousands more the next year if it attracts sales. They launch new models on a large scale and hope for the best. I don't know of any hand-assembled trial level new model experiments in the big-player car industry in the past fifty years. We're talking about the age of mass production here, especially for General Motors. The VX was production-wise inachronistic, at best, and too terribly impractical for everyday use to ever be a sales volume contender. Face it you own an experimental vehicle, that destined for a limited elite audience . It wasn't supposed to win the popularity contest. If it could have, it would have been a failure at its intended purpose and would have never got off the initial drawing board.

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Very well put! This is more the way I've view this icon of Isuzu...a prototype encouraged into production to promote the brand. I have to suspect it would have been lengthed (to accomodate 4-dr or at least better rear entry) if it were intended for large-scale production. Plus, the rear tire issue and the smallish cargo space also lend themselves MUCH MORE to the concept aspect of the platform vs. true intention for production.

I bought mine simply because it was intended to be conceptual. Concept vehicles aren't something the "average" person gets to buy everyday either!!!! Obviously, it wasn't intended to be "practical". But, it's real world performance in baja/off-road events prove it isn't just another "pretty face". Trying to extrapolate a concept run into production viability just seems a stretch to consider. More importantly, I've no idea why anyone would take this discussion there.

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Originally Posted by 89Vette

Trying to extrapolate a concept run into production viability just seems a stretch to consider. More importantly, I've no idea why anyone would take this discussion there.

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My original point, or hypothesis, if you would, was, (in a nutshell):

"I think they would have found a way to lengthen the production run (to make more), had there been a huge demand, & they were flying off the lots."

I then, was agreeable to disagreement...:flower:

Most of what's been said in reference to my opinion, has been extrapolation...:yesgray:

At least that's one word for it...:smilewink

Oh...I forgot...:mbrasd:

I mentioned soap too.

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Originally Posted by Ldub

Your beliefs are your own, as are mine.

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ya but yours are wrong:laughb:

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Originally Posted by VXR

ya but yours are wrong:laughb:

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Most beautifully & eloquently stated...:yesgray:...:thumbup:

I see capital letters & commas in your future...:yes:

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Originally Posted by Ldub

Most beautifully & eloquently stated

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thanks

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Originally Posted by 89Vette

More importantly, I've no idea why anyone would take this discussion there.

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X2 I don't know why people want to want talk about what if sales were better:_confused

it does not change the fact that the VX is a limited production vehicle as intended:yesb:

and back to the point how many are left...

I'm interested to know WHO would sue Isuzu. In order to sue someone you need to be able to demonstrate that you suffered damage in some way - financially, physically, emotionally, etc. If Isuzu switched to conventional dies and automated production and then stopped advertising the ceramic/hand-built piece who exactly is damaged enough to sue? I think the false advertising / legal liability argument is a serious stretch.