4:77's & 35's...some stats...

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10/05/2011, 08:56 AM
Ldub

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfpgasmask

Unicorn tears....and here I thought they were just hen's teeth!!

As time marches on, they become more rarer-er...:yesgray:

LAST yr it was hens teeth, THIS yr it's unicorn tears, NEXT yr, it'll prolly be welfare birth control, or something equally as rare...:laughing:
10/05/2011, 08:57 AM
nfpgasmask

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ldub

As time marches on, they become more rarer-er...:yesgray:

LAST yr it was hens teeth, THIS yr it's unicorn tears, NEXT yr, it'll prolly be welfare birth control, or something equally as rare...:laughing:

LOL, just keep yer fingas crossed for me!!! ;)

Bart
10/05/2011, 09:00 AM
Ldub

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfpgasmask

BTW, thanks for the info on the gears. :)

:rotate: Bart

No prob...:thumbup:

Keeping fingers crossed...:yesgray:
10/05/2011, 11:16 AM
LittleBeast

Everytime I read this thread it makes me more happy that I picked them up when I did.
10/05/2011, 11:22 AM
nfpgasmask

OK, so the VX has 4.30s with a LSD in the rear. For the few of you out there who swapped in 4.77s, was the difference noticable? I know you are locked in the rear now, Dub, but in a straight on acceleration situation on dry tarmack, how do the 4.77s feel different?

Just curious.

Bart
10/05/2011, 12:03 PM
Ldub

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfpgasmask

Dub, but in a straight on acceleration situation on dry tarmack, how do the 4.77s feel different?

Just curious.

Bart

:yesgray:

Butt dyno feels like about 15-20 more HP.
10/05/2011, 12:15 PM
tom4bren

So there's a significant increase to low end performance. Is there any loss in high end performance?
10/05/2011, 01:23 PM
Ldub

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom4bren

So there's a significant increase to low end performance. Is there any loss in high end performance?

How would I know...:_confused

I haven't taken it to the top end since the first week I got it, just to see how far the needle would go...:naughty:

But I'd guess that it would still top out around 110-115, as it's pretty close to the orig gearing. (7% diff)

Prolly not a good idea to take meaty beaty big & bouncy off road tires up to that speed anyway...:smilewink
10/05/2011, 04:44 PM
BigSwede

Quote:

Originally Posted by samneil2000

I wonder if the rear axle shafts are strong enough for the 35's and offroading

The rear 12-bolt is plenty strong, I never had a problem wheeling with 35s. The front CVs are more of a concern, although a little sanity with the skinny pedal goes a long way.
10/05/2011, 04:47 PM
BigSwede

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfpgasmask

Weird, 7% is the number I came up with (and subsequently have programed into my Scan Guage II) to calculate my actual speed with my 2" lift and 265 tires.

Yep, that's about right, although actual tire sizes will vary a bit, despite what the sidewall says. I used 7% when I had the old 99 Trooper and 265/75s.
10/05/2011, 08:09 PM
ZEUS

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom4bren

So there's a significant increase to low end performance. Is there any loss in high end performance?

I was better able to maintain speed up steep grades with the 4.77's. Throttle response was prolly 1.1% greater as well. :smilewink
10/05/2011, 08:37 PM
Ldub

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZEUS

I was better able to maintain speed up steep grades with the 4.77's. Throttle response was prolly 1.1% greater as well. :smilewink

I'll never forget the time I took you back to your camp in Moab.

After I gave the ol' girl a good kick in the slats, you looked at me & said: "you're gonna LOVE gears"...:yesgray:
10/11/2011, 12:16 PM
tom4bren

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ldub

How would I know...:_confused

I haven't taken it to the top end since the first week I got it, just to see how far the needle would go...:naughty:

But I'd guess that it would still top out around 110-115, as it's pretty close to the orig gearing. (7% diff)

Prolly not a good idea to take meaty beaty big & bouncy off road tires up to that speed anyway...:smilewink

Point taken but what I was thinking about was the increased rev at highway speeds. I forgetted that your gearing with big meat took you back to close to stock performance.:)
10/11/2011, 12:26 PM
nfpgasmask

So realistically, what do you folks in the know think the perceived difference would be going from 4.54s to 4.77s? Is it too close to even make much of a difference? Or will there be some apparent gains? And no, I am not talking about the VX. I am talking about the Trooper. Something came in the mail today and it might just be Unicorn Tears (with a few hen's teeth in there as well).

:D Bart
10/11/2011, 09:00 PM
LittleBeast

I would say yes. It is quite a difference. It makes the VX accelerate amazingly well for having larger tires. And I just got 17mpg my last road trip this last weekend. Best ever after the lift and tires and all. Maybe has to do with all new pulleys on the engine haha :-)
10/11/2011, 09:27 PM
nfpgasmask

Quote:

Originally Posted by LittleBeast

I would say yes. It is quite a difference. It makes the VX accelerate amazingly well for having larger tires. And I just got 17mpg my last road trip this last weekend. Best ever after the lift and tires and all. Maybe has to do with all new pulleys on the engine haha :-)

I know the difference is good with the VX (going from 4.30s to 4.77s) but I am talking about going from 4.54s to 4.77s with my Trooper.

Bart
10/11/2011, 09:29 PM
nfpgasmask

BTW, I took this pic in my garage tonight.

http://www.isuzugeek.org/forumpics/trooper/477s.jpg

I haven't counted teeth yet, but they came outta this:

http://www.isuzugeek.org/forumpics/trooper/sadrs.jpg

:cool!: Bart
10/14/2011, 07:50 PM
BigSwede

Bart, 4.56 to 4.77 is a 4.6% change.

By way of comparison, going from stock 245/70 (29.5") tires to 265/75 (~32") is about a 7% change.
10/15/2011, 08:16 AM
nfpgasmask

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigSwede

Bart, 4.56 to 4.77 is a 4.6% change.

By way of comparison, going from stock 245/70 (29.5") tires to 265/75 (~32") is about a 7% change.

Thanks, Swede. So you think there will be a somewhat noticeable change?

Bart
10/19/2011, 11:19 AM
BigSwede

"somewhat noticeable" sounds about right...
10/19/2011, 11:56 AM
VXorado

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfpgasmask

Thanks, Swede. So you think there will be a somewhat noticeable change?

Bart

No, no, no Bart, not worth the difference. Don't worry, I can take those 4.77s off your hands :p.

Seriously though for your Trooper's tire size its not really worth it. I struggled with this going to 4.56 from 4.30 for my 35s & its really wasn't enough difference for the time, effort & money. For VXs or an auto Trooper it makes more sense to swap a 5-speed & get the ~3.75 1st gear. As you know, I stumbled upon an ARB 12 bolt 3rd with 4.56 so I ended up deciding to regear while upgrading to lockers.

IMO, those gears are worth too much $$$ for the a small benefit you'll get in the Trooper. Nice work finding those...
10/20/2011, 08:43 PM
BigSwede

Whereas, for the VX, going from 4.30 to 4.77 is close to an 11% change...just sayin...
10/21/2011, 06:16 AM
samneil2000

In other words, it's not worth it Bart, so just sell them to me... :)
01/27/2012, 12:28 PM
SilverBullet75

Ok. You guys got my attention now.
I have "play money" and am in upgrade mode with my VX.

I'm amazed at the off the line ability that my VX has WITH 33's (more that it's not that much different from stock), so if it'll improve with 4.77s, I'll start looking.

Now, I don't have much knowledge in this area, so please forgive the "dumb" questions:

1. Do I have to regear the front as well as the rear?
2. Does it require any special tools or experience, or can I do it myself (I'm a capable do-it-yourself'er).
3. How do the numbers work? With 33's, do I want a higher number or lower (4.77 vs. 4.56 vs. 5.38, etc...)? Note: I'm not a hard core wheeler... 90+% street...
4. Should I re-gear before I diff-drop, or does it matter?
... I'm sure there'll be more questions.
thanks for any help!
---JIM---
01/27/2012, 12:33 PM
yellowgizmo99

1. yes on front as well
01/27/2012, 12:34 PM
JoFotoz

Your first issue will be finding gears......

......lots are looking, they are like hens teeth!

jo
01/27/2012, 12:50 PM
VXorado

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverBullet75

1. Do I have to regear the front as well as the rear?Yes
2. Does it require any special tools or experience, or can I do it myself (I'm a capable do-it-yourself'er). You'll need the gears professionally installed into the 3rd member, installing in the axles is fairly easy
3. How do the numbers work? With 33's, do I want a higher number or lower (4.77 vs. 4.56 vs. 5.38, etc...)? Note: I'm not a hard core wheeler... 90+% street... The only choices are 4.77,4.10,4.56
4. Should I re-gear before I diff-drop, or does it matter? At the same time because you need to drop the diff to install the gears
... I'm sure there'll be more questions.
thanks for any help!
---JIM---

I'm installing 4.56 gears this Spring because I bought an ARB locker installed into a 12 bolt 3rd with 4.56 gearing. I wouldn't install the 4.56 without the locker- too much work for little gains. 4.77 is a great upgrade but very hard to find... I gave up after a year of looking.
01/27/2012, 12:54 PM
VXorado

To clarify...

Stock 4.30 axle shaft revolutions per 1 wheel revolution

Upgrade 4.56/4.77 axle shaft revolution per 1 wheel revolution
01/27/2012, 05:32 PM
Ldub

Quote:

Originally Posted by VXorado

To clarify...

Stock 4.30 axle shaft revolutions per 1 wheel revolution

Upgrade 4.56/4.77 axle shaft revolution per 1 wheel revolution

Don't you mean DRIVE shaft revo's per wheel revo...?

Or have I had too much Jack...:confused:
01/27/2012, 05:57 PM
Ldub

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverBullet75

Ok. You guys got my attention now.
I have "play money" and am in upgrade mode with my VX.

I'm amazed at the off the line ability that my VX has WITH 33's (more that it's not that much different from stock), so if it'll improve with 4.77s, I'll start looking.

Now, I don't have much knowledge in this area, so please forgive the "dumb" questions:

1. Do I have to regear the front as well as the rear?

YES

2. Does it require any special tools or experience, or can I do it myself (I'm a capable do-it-yourself'er).

That's really hard to say for sure, read "Little Beasts" write up on changing gears & see what you think.

3. How do the numbers work? With 33's, do I want a higher number or lower (4.77 vs. 4.56 vs. 5.38, etc...)? Note: I'm not a hard core wheeler... 90+% street...

The higher the number, the lower the gearing = the higher the number, the quicker the acceleration.

4. Should I re-gear before I diff-drop, or does it matter?

You should do both at the same time, since you have to drop the front axle to do either...:yesgray:.:_wrench:

... I'm sure there'll be more questions.
thanks for any help!
---JIM---

Just reprising some answers from the gang, & adding a bit of my own experience...:_wrench:

This says something...:smilewink

And this should help you decide wether you have the :_wrench: skills required...:yesgray:

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/sho...ight=gear+swap

However, I WILL say, that I had never changed out a 3rd member before I owned a VX...:smilewink

This might help a little too...

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/sho...t=speed+sensor
01/27/2012, 05:59 PM
VXorado

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ldub

Don't you mean DRIVE shaft revo's per wheel revo...?

Or have I had too much Jack...:confused:

I was just testing you... keep drinking, its working for you :).

Drive shaft not axle shaft. My mistake.
01/27/2012, 06:14 PM
Ldub

Quote:

Originally Posted by VXorado

I was just testing you... keep drinking, its working for you :).

You have nothing to worry about...:yesgray:

Since you don't live in my nape of the woods...:laughing:

I'yem a guna kep havin sum john daniels til I sleepzzzzzzz gud, then I'm guna wayk up & light sume cottonwuud treez on fyr...:yesgray:..:thumbup:

(Should be a good 2 day burn)..:dance:
02/03/2012, 06:02 AM
BigSwede

If the gears are already in a third member, you can swap the third in without requiring professional gear set-up. One of the nice things about the third member design.
02/03/2012, 06:07 AM
BigSwede

Oh, and stock 245/70 = 29.5" diameter, so 33" represents 11.8% difference from stock. Ideally you want a similar change in gearing.
4.30 to 4.56 = 6.0%
4.30 to 4.77 = 10.9%

So 4.77s are pretty ideal for 33s.
02/03/2012, 11:41 AM
LittleBeast

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigSwede

If the gears are already in a third member, you can swap the third in without requiring professional gear set-up. One of the nice things about the third member design.

I would have done this, but I wanted the LSD from the OE 3rd on the rear, so I had the rear 3rd rebuilt with OE LSD for $200. Fronts I just slapped right in there. I still have not done that write up yet, haha, whoops I have all the pics maybe I should do that soon.
02/03/2012, 11:47 AM
nfpgasmask

So wait, you can move our LSD clutch packs into a rear 4.77 3rd member?

Bart
02/03/2012, 12:40 PM
Ldub

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfpgasmask

So wait, you can move our LSD clutch packs into a rear 4.77 3rd member?

Bart

You need to bolt the ring gear to the LSD carrier, (where the clutch packs live)

Then you will have to have the gears set up by a pro.
02/03/2012, 02:06 PM
nfpgasmask

Hmmmm. :evil:

Bart
02/03/2012, 07:17 PM
LittleBeast

Yes, and not only that but I went on search overload when I found out that a turbo Isuzu Impulse had a 10 bolt LSD in the rear that will fit perfectly into a set of 4.77's on the front of the VX as well ;-)

All the junkyard Impulse Turbo's that I found were missing the diff though :-(
09/28/2012, 03:51 PM
Maddawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverBullet75

I'm amazed at the off the line ability that my VX has WITH 33's (more that it's not that much different from stock), so if it'll improve with 4.77s, I'll start looking.

http://i49.tinypic.com/5n43ko.jpg
That's a 1.6" increase on the radius (about 10% reduction in accel). I think? Seems to me that would be very noticeable.

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