it's what we do....:laugho:Quote:
Originally Posted by tom4bren
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it's what we do....:laugho:Quote:
Originally Posted by tom4bren
Geeee, and all I said was.................lol. :) :)
There's the problem ....
:_brickwal
I needed a good laugh.
This conversation... just nuts.
I see what you did there.Quote:
Originally Posted by RickOKC
So...should I cut down my rear bump stops?;Do;
Apparently you only do this modification -Quote:
Originally Posted by workmeistr
if you think it will help keep your nuts cool.:yeso::yesb::yesgray::p
PK
They're not bump stops until you chop them in half. Until then they're spring helpers. :bgwb:Quote:
Originally Posted by workmeistr
I now, then, have bump stops. Cut mine yesterday. I removed and cut on the bench. I really haven't noticed much of a difference, MTF.
Hey Bren, I haven't said "hi" for a long time so... "HI!" Do you still have the original shocks? Or replacement original shocks?
I met a local VXer recently and he let me crawl all over/under his VX and then he took me for a ride around the block. His VX rides quite a bit smoother than mine on the factory original shocks (and I have the softer Rancho XL9000s!) Our unmodified spring-helper-bump-stops-whatever seem to sit at the exact same position so.... I'm pondering on why they ride so differently. :_confused
Now I'm curious if brands of tires, inflation pressures & various minor differences between hand assembled vehicles may make a difference ranging from small to big.
(BTW, I think his local '99 Astral may be up for sale soon... I'll add more input if he posts it.)
tire weight? oem inflation is 29lbs according to my local NTB.Quote:
Originally Posted by RickOKC
use: city/hwy/off-road = less suspension wear
Hi 89Vette, long time, no talk. (And, BTW, thank you for all the questions you asked when we were both VX shopping at the same time. Your questions were so much better than mine and the responses you got helped me decide to buy a VX.)
So, what tires do you have?
I think there's a good probability that my ride quality has been reduced 'cuz I went with non-OEM tires and they are about 3" taller than stock. Funny, they actually improved and rode smoother in everyday driving once I boosted them up from OEM to about 40psi. To me it doesn't seem right that the higher pressure makes for a better ride. But.... I'm not a tire expert so there is obviously something I'm missing! :)s
Quote:
Originally Posted by 89Vette
Should we be using 29lbs inflation with over-sized tires?
Good question. You MIGHT even want to use less.Quote:
Originally Posted by VXorado
More seems to improve MPGs -- like you'd expect. Less probably gives the better ride. I've also run less with the vette. Figure it's better to enjoy the car and ride (loosing some tire life) than getting best mpg's possible.
I'm running 285/60-20's. Maybe a hair less sidewall height that OEM. They made the ride a bit harsher than the fluffy 285/70-16's that I bought it with.
With the former, 35psi felt about right and I got better mpg. 35psi is a bit too stiff now that I have shorter sidewalls. So really, that's probably the biggest indicator vs the overall size.
:thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by RickOKC
How much sidewall do you have compared to before? By ride, are you referring to handling or cushy-ness.
I don't care what the techies say. I always have & I always will inflate my tires to the TIRE mfr recommended pressure rather than what is on the doorjam of the vehicle. Think about it. The VX is 10+ years old. Do you really think that Isuzu had a crystal ball back then to KNOW what innovations/improvements would be made to tire technology over the course of the next decade??? Look at all of the variety of tires out there: MT/AT/street, 6/8/10 ply, directional versus not, speed ratings, life ratings, temperature ratings. How can one recommended tire pressure work for all???
That said: it's just a starting point for me. I adjust the tire pressure to maximize life of the tire. Our MPG sux anyway so tire pressure really isn't gonna make that much of a difference. Maybe I'm a numb butt, but I really don't notice any difference in ride quality based on tire pressure anyway (especially with the VX ride quality - or lack thereof). With a 100 mile commute daily, it's all about making the expendables on a vehicle last as long as possible.
IMHO
That's my $.02 ... & I want change.:)
You definitely want to run yours high pressure unless offroad Jon. You have so much sidewall, it would be dangerous to run yours low pressure at highway speeds.Quote:
Originally Posted by VXorado
Im with tom on this one, (wow thats hard to say) the tire pressure on the door jam is designed for the factory tires and doesn't compensate for mods or new tire technologies. I know it sounds nuts, but i run my tires at 55psi, and get 3-4 more mpgs out of em and ride quality is all in the shocks and springs. If your VX rides that bad I'd look into the heavy duty torsion bars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom4bren
I'm gonna have to disagree witcha Bro, & here's my take on it...yeh, I know...:rolleyesgQuote:
Originally Posted by tom4bren
The pressure on the sidewall is not recommended pressure, it's the MAX that the tire is designed to handle, also, if you go read your sidewall, there is a max load associated with the max psi. Keep in mind that max load rating is per tire, so that #, x 4 is the total that all 4 tires are capable of carrying.
Tires with a higher volume (more width & sidewall height) require less pressure to achieve the same contact patch (correct inflation pressure for the load carried) than a tire with less volume.
Think of this comparison...
A racing bicycle tire, with very little volume, may require around 100 psi to carry a load that's 200 lbs or less...a 44x66 tire on an average monster truck, carries a total load (divided by four) of 10-12,000 lbs, & is typically inflated to 15 psi.
I'm not say'n that high psi is bad or dangerous, as long as you are satisfied with the wear etc, go for it.
It's the misconception of the max press on the sidewall being mistaken for a recommendation that I disagree with...:flower:
OUCH!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by pbkid
I DO have a response to that ... actually 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ldub
1. PV=mRT
2. Watcha gonna do when the recommended pressure on the door jam is higher than the max pressure listed stamped on the tire???
:whiteflag:
Aww cmon tom, like my dad always says, 'if im not razzin ya, that probably means i dont like you anymore'
I think I told you once that you strike a disturbing resemblance to my nephew. If'n we're in fact fambly then ... GAME ON Peanut Butter!!!:)Quote:
Originally Posted by pbkid
In response to:Quote:
Originally Posted by tom4bren
1. . :confused:...P-vert?
2. . When that happens, lemme know, we'll talk...:yesgray:
Mt Dew tru da nose on dat 1 Mr. Dub:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ldub
Well I'll say it then. It's dangerous!
Example: max recommended pressure on my TerraGrapplers is 50psi. At that pressure there would be about 42% less rubber in contact with the road than what Isuzu intended, which will significantly increase stopping distance - and reduce lateral grip as well. Unless you're hauling a lot of weight, for safety's sake you might want to air down a little! Who knows - it might keep you from rear-ending somebody on the freeway someday. :razzgray: And BTW, 29psi is specified as cold - so pressure increase according to the Ideal Gas Law is already accounted for.
I went with a tire that was 3" taller overall so there was a bit of growth. :) I'm talking strictly about ride comfort quality - I really haven't seen any noticible difference in handling except for when I had them aired down super low (15-20psi) for off-road. Some of the streets around here are in extremely poor condition!Quote:
Originally Posted by 89Vette
I'm gonna agree to disagree with this statement. sure at rolling speed, you lose an amount of rubber contact with the road as the tires expand in the middle of the tread, but what happens when you press those brakes hard and the weight of the vehicle is thrown onto the front tires? you then have 100% contact and have regular tire grip.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowPro48
Lets see if i can word this to make sense as it does in my head ;)
As well, if we are talking safety, which is my point for inflating my tires so high; if you have your tires at lower pressure, say 29 psi as your door jam suggests, how is your vehicle supposed to handle in a panic skid or quick swerve? My reasoning is, as your sidewall gives, it causes body roll, increasing chance of a rollover. I personally would rather skid a little (key word little), than have the tires grab hard and roll me over.
Now, this also supports my thought behind hard straight line braking, if you swerve and put the weight of the vehicle on 2 tires, you now are operating at optimal traction levels (enough to skid but also handle). Rather, at low tire pressure you increase your traction to a level of rollover or poor handling (low tire pressure proves to make for sloppy handling).
Let the bashing and arguments begin :smack: :slap: :smack: :slap:
Wheres RiffRaff when ya need him??
He will sort you guys out.:yesy::yeso::p
PK
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowPro48
I'm going to agree to disagree with both Y'all.Quote:
Originally Posted by pbkid
Traction is more a factor of tire design than it is air pressure. I know that my old Wrangler MTs had a stiff sidewall so tire pressure made very little difference on any of the factors you're talking about. The Firestone ATs I'm running now have a softer sidewall so I've got to keep a closer eye on the pressure - but only in terms of wear, handling seems unaffected. IIRC Marlin is running tires with Kevlar in the sidewalls. He can prolly run at 0 psi & not notice (yes, I'm exagerating).
Let's compromise...
Tire pressure is a compromise. Optimum tire pressure is based on a multitude of factors. Tire design, tire size, temperature, vehicle weight, road conditions, etc. Take NASCAR for instance. During the course of a race the crew chief is constantly adjusting tire pressures to compensate for track conditions, weather/air temp, chassis adjustments, etc. Do they look at the pressure stamped on the side of the tire? Do they use a set pressure from the chassis maker? No. My tire pressures are based on my own experience and have little to do with whatever Tom or PK or SlowPro run their tires at. They don't have the same tires and wheels, so they run a different tire pressure. I personally don't think either the car mfg tire pressure on the door OR the max pressure on the tire sidewall is optimum. It's going to be somewhere in between. At least for me!
my tires say 55 psi my vx says 29 psi so i go 40psi and they both seem happy - the ride feels exactly the same as if they were 29 psi
I fully agree with Cobrajet on this..Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobrajet
The optimum tyre pressure is very much a seat of the pants selection.
Just do not exceed the maximum stated on the tyre, as that is a safety requirement.
I run mine at 32PSI unloaded, and bump the rears to 36 if I have a heavy load in the back.
If you really want to get the optimum balance of good fuel consumption, and maximum tyre life, then use the chalk mark across the tyre method to match your tyre pressures to the load of the VX.
PK
I run my tires at 110psi on my daily driver :)
Couple things:
Contact patch varies from tire to tire...And that can be with the same pressure. Changing pressure to stay in line with tire manufacturer's intended contact patch really is the correct solution. Thought there are other considerations... Bounce of the tire is matched with suspension travel, rebound rates, springs, etc... The suspension is geared up as a "unit" with the tires mounted from the factory. SUVs have a much bigger variance in tire selection/type than sedan (cars), so more has to be judged by the driver and performance. In general, though, I agree that starting with recommended manufacturer (VX suggested) pressure is your best option. My 285-50's will take way more pressure than 29psi. Even the stock, original tires would take more than 29psi. That should be your clue!
I think there's a ride trade-off vs. MPG. More air is gonna give better mileage by reducing the contact patch (that may or may not be starting at the same area as stock.) Here, it's only a matter of less patch=less friction. That will provide better MPG. But you'll have to judge issues with tire bounce and handling if you stray more than say....10-20%. No one can determine YOUR preference. Softer (until dangerously soft -- less than 20psi for example) should always make the ride softer -- as it will absorb more bumps.
I can't see how 20, or even 29psi, can feel the same as 40psi. There's gonna be some difference. The harder you drive, the more obvious it'll be.
Softer will "roll" more in turns and degrade handling. Harder may degrade traction -- especially in rain/snow.
Pick what's best for your taste, climate, and mpg/longevity concern. Really, there IS a correct pressure that determined by viewing tire wear and contact patch. So, you could/should let those decide for you. If you'be strayed too far from stock configuration, you may just have to compensate and adjust your suspension.
What the hell is it a big rig 18 wheeler????????? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Triathlete
Is that ALL?! I'm running a buck-twenty!:bwgy: Looks like you and I are the only ones "in on" this one...;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Triathlete
http://images.lilypix.com/albums/use..._GanzBike2.JPG