2008 Baja 1000

Unless I'm really tired and you guys are aware of this already, it's been done before:

Laughlin/SCORE Desert Series Baja 1000, they also clinched the overall Class 3 title for the third consecutive year. The Sportage, driven by off-road champions Skilton and Curt LeDuc, also claimed the 1999 Class 3 championship by winning its fifth race of the six-race series. Skilton drove the Sportage to Class championships in 1997 and 1998.
The Sportage beat out seven Class 3 competitors that included a Nissan Pathfinder, Isuzu VehiCross, Jeep CJ-7, two Isuzu Amigos and two Ford Bronco IIs.


http://www.thecarconnection.com/Enthusiasts/Motorsports_and_Racing/Livin_La_Vida_Baja.S247.A1483.html




I'm going to bed...

Nice, so its been done before, theres no way im letting a kia beat me dammit. If one entered then and didnt show anything special im sure there gona let it slid for a disabled vet with PVA sponsorship. That made me feel so much better, thanks for pointing it out now I can sleep, class 3 it will be.

Well, I might have to get cracking, and haunt the old Trooper forums to find the Dakar info I was hunting. Also, now that a target class is chosen, try to find out EVERYTHING thats is and isnt allowed stock. Dont want to show up the day of, and find out your windshield washer tank or some oddball thing not qualify you.

I think every VehiCROSS owner can learn something valuable from this interview.

http://www.planetisuzoo.com/articles...Land_Interview

Its been a long long time since I read that! Bob Land even raffled a set of headers for our engine off. 1 lousy set!!! none for resale- go figure.

I am at a loss so far on finding that dakar run article he mentioned. Tried for two days. I guess it is lost to the intarnet now lol

MoonRaker, have you contacted the Baja organization to obtain rules and classifications documents? In racing you don't even begin planning until you've gotten all your research done and know EXACTLY what you need to build and gather for the effort. You just don't roll up to tech and say "I'm here to race" and expect to get your numbers. Not to mention you'll likely be expected to provide documented proof of racing instruction and experience, such as an FIA racing license.

I did the 1995 La Carrera Panamericana in mainland Mexico and also took a stab at 500 miles of the Baja course in a Baja Challenge car early 2006, and can certainly speak from experience that if you just jump into this without first contacting the event organizers and sactioning bodies you're going to leave a huge hole in your wallet and ego.

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Originally Posted by MoonRaker

Well, it wouldnt crack you up if you were crippled. Bet you wouldnt have the nuts I have or could even walk a day in my shoes.

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Paraplegic, quadruple amputee, or orange water head...that engine won't care what your personal special situation...you will not last long with the AC blowing. You'll be leaving that on the shop floor, with all the other useless stuff. Hate to break it to you...you won't be listening to the radio or your CDs either for that matter. 'Cause you left the friggin dash on the shop floor too! Next to the AC and leather seats. There is NO concession to "comfort." A Nextel phone and hand held GPS are priceless on the other hand. By the way...I got scrotties the size of coconuts..careful who you wave that "crippled" flag at...you don't know everyone's situation. Lots of people, dealin' with lots of crap...and not all of the damage is necessarily on the outside either. Now...focus and build a competitive VX. Ron is running the Jeep, and I would love to see you there.

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Originally Posted by ZEUS

I am glad you quoted my post, Ldub... I was thinking there might be a problem with the new server not showing my posts to others! :eek:

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Uhhh, yah...selective hearing ?:confused:

MoonRaker, have you contacted the Baja organization to obtain rules and classifications documents? In racing you don't even begin planning until you've gotten all your research done and know EXACTLY what you need to build and gather for the effort. You just don't roll up to tech and say "I'm here to race" and expect to get your numbers. Not to mention you'll likely be expected to provide documented proof of racing instruction and experience, such as an FIA racing license.

No ****, I posted that a few days ago, I wrote an Email to the baja orginization, havent gotten a response yet, its a long time before the 2008 baja. When better to start the planning then over a year prior, im not just showwing up to tech. I now all about tech inspects. As for the instructions and liscenses, Cam Worth is very well known in the racing community, maybe not offroad but hell hes the only guy to ever finish the daytona 24 in a turbocharged RX-7. He gets liscenses with phone calls. You now the 20b 3 rotor dune buggys, he was involved in that project so we do have connections. That stuff is the least of my worries, makeing a list of things to do is the priority. First im waiting for word on the exact rules for the class, like I said, I hope theres no limitation on suspension. My trucks still stock and will stay that way until I get back from Glamis. After some fun in the sand im headed for dessert driving conditions, I want to get an idea of whats gona be neccesity. I now Bajas a beast and not a walk in the park im trying to handle as much of the un expected and get started early at it.

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Originally Posted by Chopper

Paraplegic, quadruple amputee, or orange water head...that engine won't care what your personal special situation...you will not last long with the AC blowing. You'll be leaving that on the shop floor, with all the other useless stuff. Hate to break it to you...you won't be listening to the radio or your CDs either for that matter. 'Cause you left the friggin dash on the shop floor too! Next to the AC and leather seats. There is NO concession to "comfort." A Nextel phone and hand held GPS are priceless on the other hand. By the way...I got scrotties the size of coconuts..careful who you wave that "crippled" flag at...you don't know everyone's situation. Lots of people, dealin' with lots of crap...and not all of the damage is necessarily on the outside either. Now...focus and build a competitive VX. Ron is running the Jeep, and I would love to see you there.

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A-men on that but im gona see if its worth keeping the AC though, lol.

Check this out, found this trying to find tech specs for baja.
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forum...00-fj-cruiser/

[IMG]http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/da...rland_VX31.jpg[/IMG]

HA! I did it...posted an image in a reply...

Anyway, here's some food 4 thought MR. Like I said, no offence meant in my earlier post.
I'm totally equal opprotunity, meaning I dislike & distrust everyone equally until proven otherwise...& yes, that is a joke.:p

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Originally Posted by MoonRaker

Check this out, found this trying to find tech specs for baja.
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forum...00-fj-cruiser/

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You might want to take a look at this about the build for that truck: http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/minis...uck_build.html

Here's a Baja motorsports site and forum: http://www.baja.net

The official SCORE Baja 1000 site: http://www.score-international.com/baja1000/index.ihtml

The official entry form (only $2000 for sportsman, not bad): https://www.score-international.com/...tion/baja.aspx

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...9837&albumId=0

let me now if you cant get these pics. Those are cool, easy acsses to everything behind the dash.

Your computer skillz are only equal to those I posess...probably superior, I'm Amish...& no, I'm only seeing a home page. Though the self repairing chair does look interesting.;)

OK, upon further perusal, "you must be logged in to do dat."

Dam

Ok,taking whats being done to the toyota as the route I will be taking. Shocks, springs, and beaf up the needed. Add coolers and remote resevors adding fuids and keeping the stock systems cooler. Roll cage is another one that im gona need to figure out, A custom boltin might be a good rout. Im not trying to make the truck undrivable after baja.

Bolt-in won't cut it for competition, but you won't need to go chromoly either as standard 2.75 DOM is what you'll likely need unless they're spec'ing something oddball in whatever class you fit. I'm currently working on a full cage for my rally VX and have budgeted about $3K for the job, so you'll be looking at about the same for the materials and labor. It will still be driveable afterwards, but definitely permanently altered from the cage pads and carry-throughs.

There are a few pics here that might help from my rally project: http://www.vehicross.info/forums/sho...y+beast&page=2

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Originally Posted by Ldub

Your computer skillz are only equal to those I posess...probably superior, I'm Amish...& no, I'm only seeing a home page. Though the self repairing chair does look interesting.;)

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I could never quite put a reason to it...now I can. I grew up in N.E. Pa.. I am the only person I know, that has hooked and driven Percheron's, Belgians, Mules, and hot ol' Standardbreds. We had the only phone for miles, and (except for a few Mennonites) the only vehicles. I made a living for years, with horses (they've broken most of my bones) Now I know why I like you :)

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Originally Posted by Chopper

I could never quite put a reason to it...now I can. I grew up in N.E. Pa.. I am the only person I know, that has hooked and driven Percheron's, Belgians, Mules, and hot ol' Standardbreds. We had the only phone for miles, and (except for a few Mennonites) the only vehicles. I made a living for years, with horses (they've broken most of my bones) Now I know why I like you :)

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Sorry Chopper, that should have read "nearly Amish in my computer skills"...I'd rather you were mad at me for my misinformation, than have you think I'm something I'm not. I don't have anywhere near your depth of experience with horses, though our somewhat primative/ rural backgrounds are similar.;)
Moon, sorry for the thread jack.

No problem, my thoughts of horses are there nice animals. My neighbor had one trained like a dog. I wouldnt ever get back up on one though, went out with a few friends while in the army and the ride was finda till we turnned them around then ALL of them started racing towards the barn, there were guys that fell off, jumped into trees and me the only one still on the horse standing in the Barn after a mile of full tilt lack of control and hand prints left in the saddle, never been on a horse since.

Notice the phone and vehicle references...we were the only non-Amish/Mennonite in a pretty large area. Everyone helps harvest everyone else this time of year...stuff rubs off, when you're a kid. My apologies Moon, back to Baja.

Has anyone played with a system like this on the VX. We just installed one on a test car (supercharged RX-8) and it nearly froze the intake pre supercharger. This impressed me and thats hard to do. They claim 100 hp on mustang cobra all motor and up to 400 degrees cooler exaust.
http://www.snowperformance.net/product.php?pk=9

That's been rolling around the back of my brain since I saw it in the Summit Racing catalog...thought it would be great in conjunction with the S/C.
Since the S/C boosts the power up to near the limits recommended for our tranny, it's probably good that I can't afford it.;)

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Originally Posted by Ldub

That's been rolling around the back of my brain since I saw it in the Summit Racing catalog...thought it would be great in conjunction with the S/C.
Since the S/C boosts the power up to near the limits recommended for our tranny, it's probably good that I can't afford it.;)

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Im thinking without the S/C. Its completly tunable, it not only created lots more power on WW2 P-51s but increased the gas milage also. It Keeps your overall Temps down. You gotta rember the methonal is incapable of burning at a 50/50 mix so it cools everything.

I don't have your depth of experience, but I got the impression that these kits worked best with boost. But if you can crank the volume down enough, it sounds doable.

Like I said before, they have done it on a natraly asperated cobra mustang and gained 100 HP, even a 50 HP increase would be awsome.

Without forced induction you won't see any significant power increase, and if they're claiming increases without boost then it's likely bogus. The P-51 had a two-stage supercharger, the NA meant "North American" who was the manufacturer of the P-51. Unless you have something to force additional air into an engine then the volume of fuel available to generate power is pretty much limited by displacement. But like P. T. Barnum said, "There's a sucker born every minute" and it seems most own vehicles. ;)

Dub...you a Deadhead?

Hey Joe....you wanna argue radials vs. inlines.....vs. Vs? The P51's aero played a bigger part than its engine. You couldn't stay on boost long, before you grenaded the thing anyway. I've read a few pieces about using the alcohol as a cooling charge, instead of fuel...lots of potential there. P.S. P38's were blown till their head bolts trembled......same deal....you got it for 32 seconds.

Well, we went from 265 to 305 on the dyno this afternoon on a supercharged RX-8. The throttlbody on back tends to get so cold it sweats on the outside. Seriosly if you bring intake temps down that low in a high heat atmosphere shouldnt it in theary gain power and bringing total head and exaust temps down increasing durabuility under high stress applications.

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Originally Posted by Chopper

Hey Joe....you wanna argue radials vs. inlines.....vs. Vs? The P51's aero played a bigger part than its engine. You couldn't stay on boost long, before you grenaded the thing anyway. I've read a few pieces about using the alcohol as a cooling charge, instead of fuel...lots of potential there. P.S. P38's were blown till their head bolts trembled......same deal....you got it for 32 seconds.

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I love the round engines moreso than the inlines, although there's a little fondness for the inverted inlines like the Bf-109's Benz and the Fi-156's Argus (okay, it's an inverted V). Even the Fw-190's BMW radial had methanol injection for brief high altitude boosting, as you mentioned for only brief periods before the excessive compression made things looser than intended. Never was a fan of the Merlins, got two here that roar around the pattern fairly regular (P51 and a Spit) but they're nothing compared to the occasional B-25 or A-26. Took my Dad up in a B-17 couple years back and I wouldn't trade that for two rides in a Lancaster!

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Well, we went from 265 to 305 on the dyno this afternoon on a supercharged RX-8. The throttlbody on back tends to get so cold it sweats on the outside.

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Basic physics and mechanics at work there. You're pulling a lot of air through a venturi at high velocity, and if you know anything about basic aviation as well that's a recipe for icing which is why most recip aircraft have carb heat. Show me a hot carburetor or throttle body and I'll show you an engine that isn't running. ;)

Well the A/I did drop the charge temps alot, 40 F. The intake and throttlebody are very hot because of underhood temps without the meth, if it wernt for the water to air IC the charge temps would be way to high. Im not trying to argue with ya. But with the testing ive done sofar ive gotten nothing but postive results, better then I expected, way better, come on -(40 F). We already ordered 10 more kits, 1 is going on the VX and im going to see if I can pull more power but even better, extend the life of a tank of gas. Ill tell ya how far down it pulls the air temps in N/A form, touch your plentum, that thing gets dam hot. Might unplug the FWD and strap it down to the dyno for giggles. On the air fuel reading stock at wide open throttle it was reading 12.5, with the meth/water injection we fattened the air/fuel all the way to 11.5 and it cleaned the plugs like it was runnung leaner and even the exaust cleaned up. Temps dropped all the way around, even the the engine water temps at full load. I also see it helping keep oil temps down but we wont now till more testing is finished. Weve only had this system working for 3 days. Im sure were going to see more to come.

Just talked to our test guy for the meth, he said he got 30 more miles out of his tank then he usualy gets, this is on a RX-8 with a supercharger kit with the meth tuned to come on under high load over 4000 RPM. He burned through 2 quarts 50/50 mix and ran out about 50 miles short of the end of the tank. Were installing a 5 gallon tank in his trunk next week and im going to work on a cruzing spray tune to see how well that works. Ill keep you posted, I might just install it this week on the VX. At the moment im getting 280 to 310 per tank on the highway.

Considering methanol is about $5 - $6 a quart ($20 - $30 a gallon) the mileage increase is more a step backward from the economy standpoint. Heck, at least in the VX you could put the DI drivetrain from an '04 Axiom or Rodeo in and get an increase in HP, torque and mileage plus a better tranny. LOL, if he'd stayed off meth he could've afforded another fill-up!

Knock yourself out Moonraker, I can get you some genuine ground plane isolators that should net you another 5HP by freeing up bound electron isotopes trapped in your chassis. ;)

Looking forward to your Baja report.

Na, $2 a gallon, We buy it 55 gallons at a time and not at the track.

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Originally Posted by Chopper

Dub...you a Deadhead?

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Quite possibly, but only from the neck up...not a big fan of the Deads music.

Just wanted to drag this thread out of mothballs to see if Moonraker has any further info. on the methanol injection or Baja prep...I have my doubts, since he hasn't been active since his last post.:sighwgray

I'm sceptable....but it sounded like a pipe dream from the git. If you were gonna Baja, why in the world would you pick this car? Maybe eight or ten years ago...even then the cost to get this thing race ready would be scary...but you would stand out.