Just came across this pricing document from one of our '99 VXs original sale.
As you can see below the Isuzu dealer artificially marked up the price tag by a substantial margin, thus, limiting sales potential.
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Just came across this pricing document from one of our '99 VXs original sale.
As you can see below the Isuzu dealer artificially marked up the price tag by a substantial margin, thus, limiting sales potential.
Perhaps, but that's just one theory. I bought my G35 coupe in the first six months they were available and most dealerships were tacking on a "market adjustment" of $2-3K (though I didn't pay one). In that case dealers were simply taking advantage of high demand and low initial supply. The car was a huge hit for Infiniti and they went on to sell 2-4K per month (during which the adjustment was dropped).
I think your argument would be more compelling if Isuzu was applying that markup in 2000 and 2001. By all accounts I've read there was ample demand in 1999, which I think makes a market adjustment an equally (or perhaps even more) likely explanation.
SRSLY...:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by blacksambo
You need to be right so badly that you start a whole new thread devoted to your "OPINION"...:_thinking
C'mon dude, let it go....:rolleyesg
Ommmmmmmm, Ommmmmmmm, Ommmmmmmmmm...:yesgray:
The dealer is NOT Isuzu. Dealerships are independent contractors of a sort, and owned by entities other than the manufacturer.
They charge whatever they can get.....Isuzu sets their conditional price (lot plan and crap) but it's pretty much the same for all stealerships.
Out the door pricing has almost nothing to do with the manufacturer. Dealers charge what they please....your science is flawed mate
Call it what ever you will but this type of use, or in this instance misuse of the dealer franchise rights, in full view of Isuzu corporate, discouraged, not encouraged higher VX sales. I guess Isuzu didn't care?
Said it before, I'll say it again...:rolleyesgQuote:
Originally Posted by blacksambo
If there was profit to be had, they woulda found a way...& to quote someone near & dear...to you...
"Nuff Said"...:rotate:
Well I bought my 99 new in April of 99 and the dealer didn't ask for a penny over sticker, so I side with the "No Conspiracy" clan.
OMG what a bunch of conspiracy theory nonsense. I also want to see the the VX long form birth certificate and its alibi for 9/11. You have an independent dealer making a market estimated mark up. Never mind proof, it doesn't even rise to the level of evidence.
It's a smoking gun...
In someone else's hands. Dealers as a seperate entity is a great point that hadn't occurred to me at all. Even if Isuzu was aware they were incapable of mandating or banning a markup. And it would be silly to think that dealers would need to have a markup suggested to them to start doing it.
FWIW I think your argument about the halo effect and race entry requirements was far better than this stretch.
There are several examples of Limited Class Homologation runs (specific build numbers for race entry)...
...that went on to mass production, because of public market DEMAND.
I personally believe that if the VX had sold in commercial numbers at commercial speed,
at commercially viable prices....and the market DEMAND had been there.
Then a "VX Mk2" or such would of hit the market right quick.
JMHO...:dan_ban:
Jo
In the world of marketing (which I know well) for a test market you absolutely control price. Once price floats out of control it says you have no concern with the future of that test market offering. It's no longer a pure microcosim test. That's all I'm saying; Isuzu sought not to control the fututre of the VX offering, it was not in test market to begin with destined for a future full-scale launch if successful at generrating a sufficent number of sales, and this is consistent with what was said in the "Art and Science" iSUZU video. They said ceramic dies used because they knew the VX was not for everyone, period. Let the dealers do as they may, this is not a long term proposition.
I know business well and no company turns down a solid revenue stream if they discover one, whether through a planned test or by accident.
If you let the price fluctuate in a test market you have nothing to take to the board or the bank. It's no longer a fair test, no matter what you discover, and besides nobody will believe you. What you are proposing runs against the basic scientific method.
What is funny about that picture is it saying "protecting the customer"Quote:
Originally Posted by blacksambo
Blacksambo,
Um ok im not buisness major but wow you are far out there on this whole post. HAFS
So I guess no one should ever buy anything. Also your reasoning of companies making money because its "rare" is laughable. So does that make everything in Wal~mart rare? Take their gum for instance, which they mark up 100% (its good gum btw because its rare). Every company out there no matter who they are are about selling a product, period. Whole sale sells cheaper to a retail which in turn marks up to sell it to a consumer. THis is how they make money and how the world revolves. That goes with any product in any country. No company cares what happens to their product or if it gets resold or not. They did their job, they got it off their shelf.
Oh and btw Elvis and Tupac are still alive :D
Ya lost me there Rob...:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumke
HAFS ?
:laughing:
Ya my sentence structure is some what laughable :) ... and HAFS... Honestly and factually speaking?? lol.. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Ldub
I was mearly stating that WOW thats a far stretch. Or maybe I am missing something from a previous post?? :confused:
So if sales were strong throughout production and dealerships had thousands on waiting lists across the US in late 2001 you really think Isuzu (and their creditors) would have passed because they didn't follow the scientific method?
I got mine new in 99 dealer demo ha ha got mine 2000miles on it but full factory and all the goodies 27,849 thought I did well ha ha ha
It's not news to anyone here that the VX cost more to produce then it sold for. This is also not new to the automotive market in general, there have been many examples of cars costing more to make then they sold for. Marketing of any product requires generating interest in your product line, there is a cost-to-loss ratio involved that is counterintuitive to the normal cost-to-profit ratio that most are familiar with. Just sayin...:_confused
When the Mazda Miata came out it was listed around $18,000 but because of demand some dealers were getting up to $35,000
wow, black sambo, you make it sound like you've never seen or heard of "dealer mark-up" before. :_thinking
Agree with all above, biz and marketing folks too,....Isuzu would always value profits above rarity.
FIRST day of my MBA...they taught us:
"Shareholder equity".....is #1 for any publically traded company.
Isuzu Motors (OTN) is publically traded and must answer to the shareholders.....to think they may inflate price to LIMIT SALES, is ...um...highly unlikely. I'd think they'd actually be sued by shareholders over that practice.
Let's think how the free market works...supply/demand...good old Keynesian theory:
Back in 1984 when I was a young pup and lived in Los Angeles, the Honda CRX debuted, to MUCH MUCH demand... I negotiated for almost 3 hrs with local Cerritos dealership on sticker price of $6,300 vs their asking price of $9,300.....yes, 47.62% MARK UP!.....It was the only one actually on a showroom floor for at least 50+ miles!
I talked till I was blue in the face (and ya'll know that'd take some time! :p) and only got them down to $8,300....so....
ferrgettaboutit!
Where could I find "lower demand" ?...out in the boonies of course! So I searched for dealerships way, way outside LA area...found one in Hemet, CA....I agreed to their $500 over sticker (dealer mark-up) price and they ordered one for me, exact specs I wanted (wow..all of two choices...color and engine size..a whoppin' 1.5l ! :laugho:).
I was drivin' my new whip in 2 months! Haven't stopped smilin' over that ride....yer first is always special!:mbrasd:
Good example on the Miata Dave, exactly the same as the CRX.
This is just how capitalism works. period.
A. Dealers are, by and large, autonomous from manufacturers. They have certain contractual responsibilities to corporate, and vice versa, but pricing is pretty much left to the dealer. In fact, too much price control by corporate will usually result in a lawsuit over fair trade/collusion/anti-monopoly laws etc.
B. Dealers will rape you if they think they can get away with it.
And that's really all there is to it.
PT Cruiser.....another of MANY that dealers marked up initially.
IIRC, the Bugatti Veron was a "limited edition" when first shown in Geneva...
..and demand outstripped "limited" production.
So, they built more.....
Supply & demand...given DEMAND, we'll supply....
...thats business 101.
IMO
Jo
An interesting fact the Bugatti Vearon actually sells below cost of manufacturing. They just were determined to sell the fastest production car.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoFotoz
Ah yeah, I kinda mentioned other manufacturers have done it. The Chevy Volt, the Ford GT, the Ferrari F40, and so on and so on and so on...Name dropper! :rotate:Quote:
Originally Posted by circmand
Quote:
Originally Posted by VX KAT
One point here: The M.S.R.P. already contains at least 20 percent dealer mark-up or in common parlance profit. The mark up sheet I shared goes well beyond that (although, it shows the dealer's lack of basic math skills as the mark up was actually less than the 10% printed) and expresses Isuzu's tacit agreement that total price paid by the final consumer is free to float, to wherever ( Isuzu would get none of the money beyond the net M.S.R.P). They had no requirement to prove they could sell "X" units for a specific price to justify a later production expansion, they accepted a free market economy scenario instead. And that means positively it was not a test market proposition. Test market = control of all marketing variables, including selling price. "Don't let price float, it muddies the results."
Again...SRSLY ?...:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by blacksambo
Give it up...they sunk your battleship...:laughing:
Move on to a topic where you might stand a chance...:yesgray:
If there was profit to be provided the shareholders, they woulda made more...:yesgray:
OOps...:eekgray:
I forgot...you're the type that would start a new thread so they could have the last word...:rolleyesg
Go ahead, carry on...:thumbup:
Futility is your bestus Amigo...:luck:
How many vehicles can one point to in motoring history that have been test marketed in very-intentional limited numbers that later on expanded to big production numbers? Probably very few. That's why the VX was never destined for more than approx. 6000 units. The entire concept of try a few on the public makes no practical sense, at all. It's just not how it's done in vehicle marketing. There is no big toe in the water, kinda thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacksambo
so you think I was referring to that profit when I referenced "dealer mark up"?...um...no.... I didn't just fall off the turnip truck and accidently land on this car enthusiast forum.....and stay for 3 1/2 yrs...
I believe in paragraph #5 I'm quite clear that I was referring to OVER MSRP MARK UP pricing.
My apologies if I mis-represented your point. I stand corrected on your position.
Had VX's flown off the dealers lots Isuzu would have found a way to make more at a profit.
.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ldub
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacksambo
Sheeesh Blacksambo!!!
.
.http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/da...ad-horse_2.gif
:_brickwal...
Jo
For the love of Chrysler, if profit of every model was the profit model, then GT's and F40's and VX's would have NEVER been produced, EVER!! They were models produced to generate interest in the BRAND...:_brickwal
I'll take one if there is no price gouging involved.
Sorry Jo, didn't mean to step on your head-banger avatar, you posted right before I did...
If you took one of every loss-leader model produced, you could be a very wealthy man...Quote:
Originally Posted by blacksambo
In a way they did fly year 1, in spite of premium pricing by dealers. approx. 1100 Astrals and nearly 1000 combined other colors. They only slowed down year II and III, but it was the same car, no substantial updates...no news value.Quote:
Originally Posted by rsteinmetz70112