Seized engine - any ideas?

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02/10/2006, 06:04 AM
ChicagoKelly

Seized engine - any ideas?

Hi everyone - I'm new here but have been reading for a long time. Hope to get your feedback if anyone has ideas for me. Otherwise might be saying goodbye to my baby!

Last night, the engine seized on my beloved 99 VX with 107k on her. I've had her for 5 yrs and during all that time I am religious about changing oil at least every 3,000 miles if not more often. In the 5 yrs I've owned her I havent had 1 SINGLE problem whatsoever. Until now.

She just had a full oil chg 2.5 wks ago at JiffyLube (I drive 1000 miles a week tho so that's been 2,500 miles ago now). And I saw the "oil light" start to flicker on and off...not even steadily ON. At the 1st sign of flickering, I immediately pulled over checked oil: BONE DRY! I put 2 qts oil in. Oil light goes off. Okay then. Drove another mile and dam* oil lite starts flickering again. I pull off to Giant Auto. Check oil again - AGAIN BONE DRY - all 2 qts I just put in are GONE! Now AutoGiant tell me put in 3.5 qts more. I do. Drive another mile. Pulling onto xpressway and BOOM! Car stops dead on me. I got her started just enough to get to a gas station where she died again. Dipstick TOTALLY DRY again!! Towtruck takes her to mech. Mech says: "your engine has seized" due to lack of oil.

naturally I suspected JiffyLube did me wrong. So I asked mech to put her on a lift and check that oil filter was not installed wrong and that oil cap is tightly closed. He says "yes they are both fine". He would have expected a lot of oil splashed under the area if it was due to leak from oil pan/drain. But its all clean down there. I also asked him to check that the kid at JiffyLube didn't leave the old rubber filter on when he put the NEW rubber filter on. He said "that wouldn't matter anyway". Is he right?

When I asked how 2 wks after an oil change, and after just adding 5.5 qts of oil that night, ALL my oil could have DISAPPEARED, he said it definitely "burned off" and it was "probly a head seal gasket blew" but he did not sound too sure.

Cost to me: $6,500 to get reman engine installed or go to junkyard and find my own (still they are running around 3,000).

Does this sound right to anyone? Is there something else I can check and stick this bill to anyone else?

I called Isuzu and b*tched but of course the car is not under warranty and there is no Recall or TSB on it either (not even 1). They suggested go to a dealer and ask for the Goodwill Program. I did - so I could at least get SOMETHING off the repair price. The dealer called his Zone Mgr who (surprise, surprise) couldnt do anything for me either since I am the 2nd owner, not original owner.

So I am at a real loss here. Is this typical VX behavior???

Now a few years back, I had a "check engine" lite go on. Took it into my mech to hook up to computer. They ran the diagnostic (cost = $170) and they said the Oxygen Sensor needed replacing - but that there was "no harm or damage" that could come from leaving that undone. It was like $500 to do so I let that go. Could THAT have anything to do with burning oil to the point of destroying the engine???

Also, this car has always been in the Chicago area - this summer we moved to LA where its extremely hot all the time. In the fall we moved back to Chicago - could the extreme weather have done it?

Finally, this car has always been a real "road warrior" - we live 50 miles from work and this is the daily driver. I took a job that is 100 miles away (so 1,000 miles a week on her). Could the sudden increase in mileage each week have caused this?

I did not know u r supposed to check oil every fuel fillup and no, I have never done that - just JiffyLube every 3k.

Wouldn't I have seen smoke (course its winter here, so everyone has white smoke coming out their tailpipe now!)??? Wouldnt I have noticed an oil spill?

I love this car and kills me to think about giving her up.
02/10/2006, 06:37 AM
AREA 51

I've seen rebuilt 3.5s on ebay for $3k and swap should only cost around 1500.

other than that I think you're stuck, but a new engine is always cheaper than a new vehicle
02/10/2006, 06:45 AM
Joe_Black

Sorry to hear about this, but unfortunately happens to all makes and models from time to time. The only place I can imagine you'd lose that much oil and not see it is through a head gasket failure to a coolant gallery. If that's the case, look in your radiator or coolant reservoir and it will look milky. "Burning" that much oil would've made you look like a mosquito control truck.

As for a replacement engine, they're plentiful and relatively inexpensive. Check eBay and also with a few different local independant shops for comparative pricing. If you're adventurous you could get a 4GJ1 turbo diesel!

If you decide to just scrap the shell and move on, be sure to post here as I'm sure others besides myself would be interested.

For everyone else: When you're on the road and you find that there's no oil on the dipstick STOP DRIVING until the problem is found. Call AAA, get a tow, whatever but just get it into a shop or your garage until the cause is corrected. Engines are very unforgiving when deprived of lubrication.
02/10/2006, 07:00 AM
WormGod

Wow, I would call Mulder and Scully for this one. Burning that much oil, you should have had some visual sign of something. Either from the exhaust or smoking from under the hood.It couldnt have just vanished, had to burn off somewhere. Although, my guess is, with no visial signs, it burned off from the inside. As Joe said, I would check the radiator and see what the color of the coolant appears to be. I can only imagine there was a crack somewhere along the cooling train and it burned off through there. *shrug* No matter though, it still doesnt change the fact that you are in need of a new engine. Now is your opportunity to go with a direct injection. And ya, it is still cheaper than a new car.

The VX sure would have been more handy with an oil press gauge. One of the first things I added to it. Hopefully it will give you a better warning than a Check Engine light will. ;)
02/10/2006, 07:02 AM
steelzeus

that is the exact same thing that my vx did before it died. but I am rebuilding it now
02/10/2006, 10:44 AM
psychos2

yes it would make a difference if the oil filter had a double gasket.but it would have happened long before now.the oil did not burn off.it would have looked like you were on fire.there is an oil leak somewhere.a good mechanic should be able to find it. there was no puddles of oil when you stopped? possible rear main seal ?check the places where you stopped to see if there is a trail of oil.
steelzeus, did you find any oil in your coolant? shawn
02/10/2006, 12:30 PM
Dare2Dream

Checking the radiator is definitely the first thing to do.

Do one more thing, check the PCV and let us know if it is soaked in oil. That has happened before :confused:
02/10/2006, 01:04 PM
Joe_Black

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dare2Dream

Do one more thing, check the PCV and let us know if it is soaked in oil.

LOL, they're always soaked in oil anyway. They do sit right over the valve-train. :p
02/10/2006, 02:50 PM
psychos2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dare2Dream

Checking the radiator is definitely the first thing to do.

Do one more thing, check the PCV and let us know if it is soaked in oil. That has happened before :confused:

there is no way that she lost 5 qt of oil out tha pcv valve. i have put in a breather instead of the pcv valve and have had no oil loss in 2 weeks. i have lost oil from the pcv valve sticking ,maybe a quart or a quart and a half in 1000 miles.
there has to be an oil leak in order to lose over 5 qt in that amount of time. shawn
02/10/2006, 03:48 PM
ChicagoKelly

Hey guys thanks for all these great ideas. I truly appreciate it!

Mech says its hard to "test stuff" since the car does not run. But I"m trying to get SOME kinda answer so here's what I have.

Had mech pull the PCV...its fine he said. He said its "a little oily" due to location but not "soaked in oil". Did vacuum check on it: it was fine.

Last time I replaced PCV was 40k miles ago - had I known they should be replaced every 3k I sure would have done it.

Radiator fluid: looks fine, says mech.

He checked under car - there is no oil puddles. I haven't seen 1 oil puddle the entire time I've owned her so apparently it was definitely burning off , not leaking out.

Asked him to pull the EGV valve and check that. Mech said he can't pull the EGV valve without pulling apart the whole engine but he can "look" at it and let me know tomorrow. He also said the EGV by itself couldnt cause 5 qts of oil to disappear in a single night - there had to be something else going on.

Mentioned the O2 sensor being bad and he agreed that it couldnt have been that.

Now the mech is getting impatient for me to write him a check for new engine. But I told him I don't want to replace engine without isolating the variables and figuring out WHAT blew out in my current engine. I sure don't wanna repeat the same mistake with engine #2!

Mech said that without pulling engine apart, sending stuff to a lab, and then getting back results we will probly "never know" what caused it. <???>

My best guess is that the PCV failed closed. Then the resulting increase in crankcase pressure overcame the drain thru of the oil, via the notorious Isuzu design deficiency of the oil ring. This would result in rapid burning of oiling. But wouldn't there have been TONS of smoke billowing off from under my hood?

I wanted mech to check for carbon-ed up piston ring, to prove my theory here, but he said can't do that without engine running (or without pulling existing engine apart).
02/10/2006, 05:27 PM
Joe_Black

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChicagoKelly

My best guess is that the PCV failed closed. Then the resulting increase in crankcase pressure overcame the drain thru of the oil, via the notorious Isuzu design deficiency of the oil ring. This would result in rapid burning of oiling. But wouldn't there have been TONS of smoke billowing off from under my hood?

I'm leaning towards finding another mechanic that's more interested in telling you the truth rather than wondering how deep your pockets are.

Did you look at the coolant yourself? Plus, the EGR valve (EGV) is right on top of the engine and takes just a few minutes to disassemble. And notorious Isuzu oil ring deficiency?!?!? Ummm, no. First, there have been few, like in sub-1% percent of production range, failures of Isuzu produced engines. Especially the 6VE1. Second, if it were "notorious" there'd be either a Federal or OEM recall, of which Isuzu hasn't ever had on anything that wasn't built by GM.

GRRRRR! This kind of "customer service" irritates me from greedy mechanics. :mad:
02/10/2006, 06:02 PM
Jolly Roger VX'er

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger VX'er

http://www.powerpro2000.com/lb_isuzu_about.htm.

I don't know anything about these guys....just thought I would post in case there's any interest
02/10/2006, 06:48 PM
SPAZZ

hmmm.

get a 3.1 Turbo diesel out of an Isuzu and it should direct bolt(not sure but doubt if direct plug in) in your engine bay and up to your 4l30E Transmission. Much better power and way better mileage!!! and probably way more cost efficient than buying another stock POS engine that is crappy on mileage and under powered.
02/10/2006, 08:32 PM
psychos2

i am with joe_black on this one. find a new mechanic. there is no way you burned off 5.5 qt of oil (with no smoke). it leaked somewhere. and the crankcase would not fill up with pressure due to the pcv vavle stuck closed. there is another vent hose on the other valve cover with no pcv valve it would have vented there. the mechanic has no clue and is full of crap. get a new mechanic.if he cannot diagnose a problem then he sure doesn't know how to install an engine. shawn
02/11/2006, 05:02 PM
Chopper

I'm feeling Spazz---look at it as a door opening,a clean sheet of paper,a new adventure.