front speakers

[etlsport]

I'm in the process of re-doing my whole sound system in the VX, todays fun was putting 6.5" speakers in the front. I got Rockford Fosgate 6-1/2" 2 ways and when i went to put them in i found two things very puzzling..

1. the speakers fit into the stock location with no trouble at all.. i thought our fronts were 5-1/4? the only modification i had to do was make a slightly bigger channel so that the terminals would fit, but even the mounting holes lined up decently well

2. why are there 4 wires run to each speaker? i just cut the harness and plugged them directly into my new speakers, but id still like to know why there are 4 wires instead of two

-eric

[MZ-N10]

because 2 of the 4 wires lead up to teh tweeters....

btw...sounds like ur using the stock speaker wires for teh fronts....r u plannin to run an amp? it might be worth ur time to run new wires into teh front doors...

[Hotsauce]

Also, if you put a coax in for the lower speaker, you may be getting a very bright sound now from having the stock tweeter hooked up with a 2 way.

You really needed a 2 way component system with seperate crossover.

John C.

[psychos2]

Also, if you put a coax in for the lower speaker, you may be getting a very bright sound now from having the stock tweeter hooked up with a 2 way.

You really needed a 2 way component system with seperate crossover.

John C.


WHAT ??? Why would changing the lower speaker change the way the tweeter sounds ? Unless there was a built in crossover on the stock speaker. shawn

[etlsport]

i havent decided about the amp yet, for now the speakers sound really nice, so im not worried about it yet, when i get the rears done i'll see how it sounds and make my decision from there, but i will definately be running my own wires for the rears so i dont have to take off the rear panels again.

I am getting a lot of highs with a 2 way in the front door, i think it makes everything sound a little crisper.. didnt notice any difference in the sound coming from the stock tweeter though

next project up is 6-1/2's in the rear speaker locations too, just waiting on my torx bit so i can remove the rear panels completely

[biju]

etlsport,

I found that my rear location could only fit 5.5's comfortably (with some metal fab on the speaker housing).

You might have to do some serious work to get 6.5's if the magnets are large.

Just a heads up...

-biju.

p.s. - I agree with above >>> install larger speaker wire in the doors.

[VehiGAZ]

2-way coax's in the doors may change the sound of the upper tweeters because....

1) Amps don't push power into the speakers - speakers draw power from the amp based on their impedance (ohm) rating. A speaker with a 2 ohm impedance will draw twice as much power from an amp as a speaker with a 4 ohm rating. This concept is critical to understanding sound systems. Learn it, love it, live it.

2) A 2-way coax speaker will generally have a lower impedance than a single speaker, beacuse there are two speakers in the circuit sucking up the power (rather than one).

3) All speakers in the circuit are affected similarly, depending on how they are wired (i.e., in series vs. in parallel - but don't worry about that for the purpose of this conversation).

So, let's say you have two 4-ohm speakers wired in parallel (one in the door and one in the dash) and you replace the one in the door with a 2-way coax with a TOTAL impedence of 2 ohms. In this configuration, the new coaxes will suck up a larger proportion of the power than the 4 ohm in the dash, and so you will actually reduce the amount of power running to the one in the dash, making it less loud. (Hotsauce, I don't have the time to reorient myself with the formulas and to do the math, but I am pretty sure the new setup will lower the power to the original dash tweeters.)

That said, the tweeter in a coax doesn't really have 4 ohm impedence rating, so the simplistic math suggesting that the 2-way coax has a total 2 ohm impedence is inaccurate. The true rating of the 2-way coax is probably closer to 3.2 ohms, which means that the power being drawn by the original 4 ohm speaker in the dash will be reduced only in slightly, so there will be barely any difference in how it sounds.

Once you throw passive crossovers into the 2-way speaker circuit, it gets a whole order of magnitude more complicated, but that's another topic altogether. I'll just add that MB Quart's crossovers used to be notorious for their inefficiency, making the speakers quiter at a given power level than other brands, so be careful of that when choosing speakers, and NEVER MIX. :-)

EVERYTHING is ALWAYS more complicated.

[etlsport]

vehigaz, all makes sense, but as you said, there isnt a significant change in how it sounds, so im not too worried about it, but definately am trying to keep everything the same, all my speakers are going to be rockford fosgate, i got a kenwood head unit now, but just ordered a rockford fosgate DVD/mp3/cd player and will be returning the kenwood ;Db;

biju, thanks for the heads up, i had heard something about clearance issues, so i made sure to order low profile speakers made for doors, hopefully that will help. when you say metal fab, did you have to add to the housings? or just trim away to make room for the new speakers? any photos/tips? i plan on taking lots of pictures and hopefully writing a how-to when im done, so if you have anything you think i should add in please let me know

anyone else who has upped the size of their rear speakers (i know spazz and a few others have) any tips/suggestions would be appreciated for when i do it or for the how-to

[VehiGAZ]

Man, now this thread has me thinking about why my rear speakers have so much more presence than my fronts, and maybe it's time to open 'er up and take a look at what's going on inside (maybe a previous owner replaced one set or the other?).

Can someone give me a quickie lesson on how to get at each set of speakers before I start breaking retainer clips all over the place?

[etlsport]

rowhard has a great howto that explains how to remove the door panel, thats the only way to get to the fronts
http://www.vehicross.info/modules.php?name=Content&file=viewarticle&id=22
the only thing i'd add to it is to put the door panel back in can be kind of a pain, when you set it down over the top of the door, make sure it is lower than the little metal piece you screw the tweeter pod into (there should end up being like 1/8-1/4" below the metal piece and the top of the door panel when you go to push the door clips into place, you shouldnt need to apply any kind of hard force or 'stretch' the door to make any clips reach, it should just set over and snap into place with minimal effort

ill post on the back later when i can get outside and take a couple pics of my progress

i found that using this tool covered in e-tape to protect the paint worked wonders for removing the door panels and rear panels got it at advanced auto, made by ampro
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail.aspx?categorycode=3412&mfrcode=APO&mfrpartnumber=T70606

http://www.partsamerica.com/product_images/AAP/APO/t70606.jpg (http://www.partsamerica.com/product_images/AAP/APO/t70606.jpg)

[etlsport]

ok so i got the rear panels completely free except for the seat belt bolt.. i have the T50 torx bit in my socket wrench, and cant get it to turn for the life of me, also tried the air ratchet, it turned maybe a quarter turn and stuck.. is there something im missing? like does it turn opposite? HELP! (thanks)

[Hotsauce]

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3105/thumbs/FR125_mounted.JPG (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3105/FR125_mounted.JPG)

I put in a mounting board to replace the stock speaker mount in the rear. I also filled that rear panel with fiberglass batting while it was open.

John C.

[MZ-N10]

ok so i got the rear panels completely free except for the seat belt bolt.. i have the T50 torx bit in my socket wrench, and cant get it to turn for the life of me, also tried the air ratchet, it turned maybe a quarter turn and stuck.. is there something im missing? like does it turn opposite? HELP! (thanks)

theres loctite on the seatbelt screws so u might need a breaker to get it loose....

[etlsport]

im having no luck with this torx bolt, so i just removed the speaker mount all together and ill just work on it in my workshop, as biju warned, its turning out to be quite the challenge, some metal fab, i have my pattern all done and theoretically i just need to make a few cuts, mount it and reinstall...

vehigaz, should be able to get a how-to together sometime this weekend, you can pm or email me if you have any spec. questions about how to get to the speakers in the rear before that

[biju]

I was unable to get that to come loose either. I just carefully propped up the panel with a rod while I worked behind the panel. Figured if it was going to be that difficult to get off it wasn't meant to be tampered with...

best of luck.

-biju.

[VX4EJR]

Trying to find an answer to this, searched, not sure unless I missed it somewhere...well, here goes!

If you replace the stock radio with something else, does that mean those stock door tweeters will then get a direct non-frequency modified signal? In other words, does our stock radio do the tweeter signal split or does it happen somewhere else, perhaps in the door where a stock type crossover circuit is or at the tweeter itself? Anyone know?

[pbkid]

Trying to find an answer to this, searched, not sure unless I missed it somewhere...well, here goes!

If you replace the stock radio with something else, does that mean those stock door tweeters will then get a direct non-frequency modified signal? In other words, does our stock radio do the tweeter signal split or does it happen somewhere else, perhaps in the door where a stock type crossover circuit is or at the tweeter itself? Anyone know?
The tweeters are crossed over out of the door woofer.

[VX4EJR]

So is it safe to say if you had a different head unit and replaced the lower door speakers, plug and play, that the stock tweeters would still function picking up highs while the lower speakers do the rest?
I didn't see anything but a wire harness at the lower speakers that would just connect to a new speaker. Any crossover circuit is not in plain sight, which is why I ask.

[evillecutter]

i replaced all 4 speakers but left the stock tweeters and put in a new head unit - works perfect no distortion or weird noises - i think the crossover is in the tweeter (most likely a small bass blocker)

[etlsport]

Iirc there is a small filter on the back of the tweeter... Nothing complex or fancy about the vx sound system whatsoever.. Think it took me 15-20 min to swap out my head unit last time (not counting the fiberglass work to the dash)

Vx4ejr, are you going to see the v8 vx this weekend? We could convoy down if so.

[VX4EJR]

Hey etl, v8 vx? Wasn't aware where or what this is. I've been out of the loop with this site here and there, trying to get back into it gets rough..ehh life in general. Think I spotted your VX across from Shannondell many weeks ago. I need to get mine out of the garage, started interior projects that kept it undriveable for a while but the finish line is near. Depending when, where, etc this thing is, might be able to do!

[evillecutter]

be aware that our factory head unit has the big intenna cable coming in from the drivers side - when i got an aftermarket it was on the passenger side and the cord coming from inside the vehicle would not reach so i had to drive back to the parts store to get an extension - might save you a trip

[VX4EJR]

be aware that our factory head unit has the big intenna cable coming in from the drivers side - when i got an aftermarket it was on the passenger side and the cord coming from inside the vehicle would not reach so i had to drive back to the parts store to get an extension - might save you a trip

Yup! Ran into that already, was pissed and had to pick up an extension. Tried to see if there was any slack in the cable, but it's all tied down and no go.

[evillecutter]

Yup! Ran into that already, was pissed and had to pick up an extension. Tried to see if there was any slack in the cable, but it's all tied down and no go.

sorry i was too late man didnt remember that till this morning