brakes question

[zadam123]

I just got my brakes checked out today and found out that i only need brakes on the pass. side rear. I have like 50% on the front and drivers side rear. Keep in mind i have the car since new and now have 75,000 miles on it. I never had brakes last this long before.

My question is, is it normal to have only one side of the rear wear out? seems odd that both rears didnt go at the same time.

I have had a problem with the abs pump module and it was replaced, can that be the cause (that part is 2300 form isuzu) of the wear?

Also i got a quote for raymold brakes (lifetime warranty) both rears since they cant only order one side, new disc shims and rotor cut for 260. does that seem like a good price.

thanks
adam

[SGT.BATGUANO]

It's not normal. Are you sure these are the original brakes? I would think they should've been replaced at an earlier scheduled maintenance interval. When was the abs module replaced? What mileage? Were brakes replaced then?

I would think it's NOT the module as that should only come into play when abs is activated.

Don't know the price on the parts you mentioned.

[zadam123]

Originally posted by SGT.BATGUANO
It's not normal. Are you sure these are the original brakes? I would think they should've been replaced at an earlier scheduled maintenance interval. When was the abs module replaced? What mileage? Were brakes replaced then?

I
I bought the car with 100 miles on it and now have 75000., so im positive that there the same brakes. When the module was changed the only thing they replaced was the fluids. Like i said i cant believe that the brakes lasted that long. The guy at the shop told me this is normal and he seees it all the time, he also said what you said that the module probably isnt the reason but thet it was normal for that to happen. I feel the same way you do since i had about 10 cars through the years and never had one pad wear faster than the rest by this much margin, but then again this is my first new car,

[t2p]

zadam123:
.
I don't believe this is normal ........ but getting 75K from a set of brake pads is not the norm (also) ............
.
HOWEVER ............. I do know someone that has a VX where I work ....... he has 100K on his VX now .......... and he believes the original pads are still on ........... almost incredible ......
.
you may do a majority of driving on the highways .... ???
.
If the car stops well ........... does not pull when you apply the brakes ............... I would not worry about it. The right-rear caliper may be (slightly) hanging up - maybe not enough for you to notice when braking .....
.
(if the parking brake actuates the caliper, this could be the issue - although the VX parking brake is probably the type with the tiny brake shoes inside the drum on the rear rotors)
.
I would probably have pads installed on all four corners ....... the rotors should probably also be 'cut' - receive a mild resurface at a minimum. There is a chance the rotors will be 'out of service' - too thin to turn ...... if so, new rotors will then be required ...........
.
the right-rear caliper should be checked to see if it is hanging up ........
.
and the the front wheel bearings should also be 'repacked' - if this has never been done before (probably should be done at around 30-50K).
.
I'm not 'Joe Mechanic' - but I have never been a fan of 'lifetime anything' .... including brake pads. Typically, I install OEM pads - but my experience is mostly with Honda (I feel Honda OEM parts are superior to most aftermarket parts - not sure about Isuzu). Someone on this board can probably point you to a good set of aftermarket pads if you do not go with the OEM pads.
.

[Dallas4u]

Not sure about what may have caused the irregular wear, but chiming in on the brake pad wear time frame... many on this forum have posted before stating they've gotten 60 - 70k out of their pads. It's out of the norm, but I'm not sure it's too out of the norm for the VX.

[Anita]

Ditto on what Adam (Dallas) said. I've been told many times to expect loooong wear from our brakes. I still have mine on going strong at 60K.

[t2p]

The brakes .............. gottabe one of the best features of the VX ....... not too many SUV's .... (or other vehicles for that matter) ....... stop as well as the VX. And the brakes appear to last and last .......
.
It may not be in the league of a high end sports car ......... but much better than the majority of the iron you share the roads with everyday ...........
.
A few people have experienced trouble with the ABS systems ..... unfortunately, these issues surface with just about every car that has them installed ......... including Honda and Toyota .......
.
I'm not a huge fan of the ABS systems - primarily because I don't care to be faced with a $1200 (parts) bill to fix a car with 80K on it .......
.
.
t2p - who remembers the days when we would 'blow' brake shoe dust out of a brake drum - and it would blow back into our faces ...... brake dust that contained asbestos ........ oh well .....

[shoota77]

i've had a terrible experience with my vx's brakes...at 16500 miles they started to shimmy...had them checked out and the rears, and just the rears, are horribly warped. The tech said it was the worst he had ever seen. I like the pads though, no dust.:D

[t2p]

shoota:
.
I have heard .... urban legend ? ........ that rotors can go out of round when the lugs are over-tightened ....... so your 'tech' may be to blame - or the person that tightened the rear lugs ..... maybe someone got a little too carried away with the air gun ......
.
I have also heard that rotors need to be stored properly or they will be/go out of round .........
.
???

[zadam123]

Man I hate mechanics, i brought my car to 3 places 1 of them being isuzu. I got 3 diffrent responses on how much was left. and at one place i even had the mechanic and the guy at the counter argueing on how much was left (really funny) but since that happend i think ill believe the mechanic there who told me that i had 40 % left on the pad.

Heres a question, he told me that the pads wear slower when there new. is this true, meaning if i have 75,000 miles on the car and i have 25% left i should get another 18750 miles lift before i need breakes or is it true that they will wear faster now that theres less of a pad? Also they told me that the front pads are like 40% but the rotors have heat damage and cant be cut, if the pads have that much left should there be so much heat damage that the rotor cant be saved or cut?

I ask you guys cause it seams that this board know more than the stupid mechanics and dealers over here

thanks
adam

[joe-yamma]

my rear pads are shot (48k) and i am replacing my pads all the way around on monday (actually, my dad is gonna do it for me because he works 3-11pm next week and will have the time).

i was looking at all of the options and was ready to go with EBC SUV brake pads ($60 front, $70 rear) and EBC front rotors ($150) and Powerslot rear rotors ($92 per side) from www.tirerack.com.

instead of replacing all of the rotors right now, my dad is gonna take them to get turned down (re-surfaced)... if they still have enough material on them. if they don't, then i will be getting the EBC fronts and Powerslot rears.

as far as pads go, i decided to go with the Bendix organic pads from Adnace Auto. $34 for the front and $31 for the rear with a replacement guarantee. (basically, if you wear them out, they'll replace them with a new set for free).

i think the EBX front rotors are a good value as the are slotted/dimpled and anodized and they cost a little more than the stock replacement.
the rear OEM replacement is $89 each side from Advance, so i would probably go with Powerslots in the rear for $92 each.

just some info that i've gathered looking for brakes.

joe

[Hotsauce]

If your brakes are wearing unevenly, I'd suspect that a caliper is hanging up on one of the guide pins.

We have junk single piston calipers, if the pin doesn't allow the caliper to float, the pads will drag.

John C.

[rocket man]

I have 71,000 miles of flawless brake performance...

I took her in at 60,000 miles and had them check, I was a little nervous never had brakes go this long, they said I had at least 20,000 left...:rolleyes:

Now just wait for my next post...."my brakes went out" I probably jinxed myself now...

[Andrey]

i just had my breaks done (only because I plan towing a boat). From day one (and I am original owner and VX was brand new) My rotors were all groovy and rusty. Some other forum members had similar stuff going on. Rears were in worse condition then fronts. They never made any noise and breaking performance was OK (nopt the best but OK). I figured that pads are not wearing out correctly as inner and outer edges were hitting rust area on rotors and trust me there was lotsa of that. Front rotors were re-surfaced but rears I was told to change. I did not have any time to wait for slotter rotors to arrive so I bought some aftermarket $36 a piece brand new rears (they work flawlesly now). Old pads (I still have them in the basement) had about 60% left on them - they were just all groovy (peaks and valleys) and had uneven wear. I bought brand new OEM pads from Isuzu and DO NOT regret a second. They are very good performers and last. I guess I have to wait for about 200 miles to see full benefit of new breaks but I feel the difference now with increased stopping power and even, smooth breaking.

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

Originally posted by joe-yamma
my rear pads are shot (48k) and i am replacing my pads all the way around on monday

I just had my VX inspected recently and my mechanic told me that the front disc brakes still had about 50% left on the pads with about 38,000 miles....however...the rear wheel that he checked only had about 10% left on the pads. I am going to pull both rear wheels off to check for uniform wear on both sides. Heck, I'll probably check all of them!

I know from previous experience on other vehicles that if only one wheel is worn down than it is a caliper sticking as mentioned above.

If I find that both rear wheels are in need of brakes with the fronts in such good condition....this will come as a surprise to me as I always expect the fronts to wear faster.

[t2p]

JollyRoger:
.
The rear pads on my better half's car (Honda Accord) went before the fronts ........... techs said that was not unusual for that car .......
.
I thought there may be an issue with the brake system ...... proportioning valve or something ...........
.
.
while we are on that subject .......... my first car - a 68 Chevelle with a 327 4 speed ..... had over 100k miles on it when I purchased it ........ alot of highway driving ....... I purchased it from the original owner ....... it still had the original rear shoes ...... original clutch also ......

[mrtew]

I LOVE having brakes that last and last... such a nice contrast to the typical car that burns thru them in 20,000 miles.

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

well...I just changed out all the brake pads today...After calling around I decided on Raybestos's #1 pads...cost me roughly $45 for fronts and $35 for rears.

My original front pads were immaculate with about 50% or better left on them at 38,000 miles...

The rear pads were similarly worn in that the inner pads (closest to the caliper piston) were shot while the outer pads (closest to wheel studs) were about as good as the fronts... I'm thinking pistons were hanging up on the inner pads, or caliper slides "sticking"?

I took the slides apart and wire brushed and flushed out the inside of the slide "tubes" with brake cleaner; then re-greased them with Raybestos 100% silicon grease while cleaning off the slide "rods" and smearing some grease on them. Also "Never-Seized" all threaded bolts.

I flushed out the caliper pistons with brake cleaner and sprayed some silicon spray after they dried...all wheels seemed to funtion normally after applying the brake pedal as the calipers seemed to
release normally.

I also siphoned out some of the brake fluid in the master cylinder resevoir beforehand to compensate for the pistons being in a more retracted state due to the thickness of the new pads.

[VX4EJR]

Not too bring up an old post, but I just had my VX for annual state inspection. Rear rotors and pads were borderline to pass. The Isuzu dealer/service guy ended up replacing the rear pads and "resurfacing" the rear rotors because they were pitting. This was recommended to keep those brakes in check. So, is it "normal" to have the rear rotors resurfaced around 50K? And what does that mean for the future life of the rotors?

Plus, they pointed out that I had one rotor bolt on the front left wheel that was not screwed in all the way, just sticking out a little but not really harming anything. The service guy tells me he thinks it's stripped because he couldn't get it back in. Kinda strange since no one else had any reason to loosen those bolts before. Ehh who knows....??.

[rocket man]

Okay everybody going to write back and say Im a BS'er. I have 143, 600 miles on this amazing car with original brakes , pads and roters, also spark plugs.

I put the Nittos on at 63,000. I pull a trailer on hunting trips.

The only warranty work was a bad CD changer twice and one window repair I was able to do myself thanks to the kind members of this website.

This car has me in awe...now watch all 4 wheels will fall off today

Johnhttp://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/VX_Winch_Photos_010.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/VX_Winch_Photos_010.jpg)http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/VX_Winch_Photos_010.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/VX_Winch_Photos_010.jpg)

[Kenny]

Not too bring up an old post, but I just had my VX for annual state inspection. Rear rotors and pads were borderline to pass. The Isuzu dealer/service guy ended up replacing the rear pads and "resurfacing" the rear rotors because they were pitting. This was recommended to keep those brakes in check. So, is it "normal" to have the rear rotors resurfaced around 50K? And what does that mean for the future life of the rotors?

Plus, they pointed out that I had one rotor bolt on the front left wheel that was not screwed in all the way, just sticking out a little but not really harming anything. The service guy tells me he thinks it's stripped because he couldn't get it back in. Kinda strange since no one else had any reason to loosen those bolts before. Ehh who knows....??.

I have about 55K on mine and my rotors are toast:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/Rear_rotor_BAD.jpg

I think it's the the road conditions, snow, slush, salt, etc....

The rear rotors eats through brake pads.
I'll get by until the new new rotors and pads arrive later this month.

oh, I'd replace the goofy bolt... It's a cheap fix for piece on mind.

[Cobrajet]

Okay everybody going to write back and say Im a BS'er. I have 143, 600 miles on this amazing car with original brakes , pads and roters, also spark plugs.I believe you! I'll be turning 100K in the next week and I've still got my original rotors, pads and spark plugs. Last major service I had the dealer take a good look at the brakes, and they said they were fine. Spark plugs and timing belt get changed on the next major service. I hope you weren't trying to imply that the same Nitto's have been on the VX for 80,000 miles. I'm calling BS on that one... ;)

Must be a Proton thing!

[mrtew]

I had to get an Ontario inspection when I moved to Canada six months ago and they said all my pads were worn at 64,000 miles and they'd have to replace them to pass me. Anyway they didn't tighten or put in the bolts on the right front and the entire caliper FELL OFF onto the street on the way home. After 60,000 miles of perfect service my brake pedal falls to the floor on the way home from a safety inspection and repair. Grrrrrrr. Oh well I can't stay mad at the Canadians for long and it's been fine ever since they fixed it again :-]

[rocket man]

Yep Cobrajet...80K on the Nittos...the tire Co that sold me the road hazard warranty (cost me an exrta $200) but it includes tire roation and fixing flats (first one I ever had about a month ago) Uses me as his salesman when I come in for the tire rotation. :gring:

But to be fair I log about 30K a year on this car and mostly on the highway so these are only around 3 years old. Heck I got 63K out of those nasty old originals...

I love this car

Heck I have 255K miles on an 89 4wd Isuzu Amigo...I still have it :rolleyes: don.t drive it much now...but this is 3 engines, 2 transmissions, 4 clutches and one transfer case and 3 sets of hubs later and I forget how many sets of tires...Hell my cars last longer than my wives :eek:

[MrCrowley]

Here is some data i have stored in my noggin that may help people along. Some of this is VX stuff, some is stuff to be forewarned about from equivalent Trooper issues that I dont think many here have experienced yet.

Isuzu pads last you longtime! Also, their performance is superior or equal to anything in the aftermarket. They are proven, and based on my disappontment with some aftermarket pads on other vehicles, seems to be the way to go.

Rear brakes seem more prone to failure and/or faster wear. Currently my e-brake doesnt operate, and I have to diagnose whether my rears are even functioning at 100%.

*** LUG NUTS AND BOLTS*** Be careful here. It is a known issue that the bolts on most Isuzus are grade 8 metal. When you ever have ANYONE touch them. ALWAYS MAKE SURE THEY USE A TORQUE WRENCH. never let anyone do the airgun thingy where they just keep hammering them with an airgun. The reason for this is the use of a stronger, but more brittle metal in your bolts. With a little corrosion added over time, the person removing them will more than likey snap them. I cannot remember, but I believe you cannot replace a bolt on this rig. You have to replace the entire hub assembly. Dont have personal experience, but have heard of drivers having to sign waivers to keep mechanics from being liable for broken bolts because of this siezing upon discovery of this later on.

Even though your brake pads last forever, dont forget to replace your brake fluid. Brake fluid is hygroscopic- it absorbs water over time. water leads to rust, and rust will destroy your brake system if not cause an accident due to dimished performance.

Yes, Isuzus last a long time! At least when we could buy them. Sigh. My blue/silver 1988 Trooper LS I sold with 218000 miles, looked brand new. had replaced pads twice, clutch once, tires twice, and besides filters and fluids, never had an issue. I sold it for 5000 dollars back when imports had superior resale Dont know why that changed. Why did I sell it? I dont know. Been trying to find another ever since. My 1998 Trooper I sold (or my wife sold!) With never a problem. 98000 miles. Tires, fluids only service needed. 1999 VX 83000 miles. Stock brakes, 1 set tires. stock tires I didnt like their performance off asphalt. replaced early. Bridgestone Dueler M/Ts have about 50000 miles so far and look to need replacement soon. Only fluids done sofar.

On another note, has anyone else not had to replace a lightbulb in over 10 years as well? Between Acuras, Isuzus, Suzukis, and Subarus, I realized it has been since 1996 when I sold my last domestic that I havent had to think about this for over 10 years. Yahoo!!!! I know my mechanic skills have declined as well due to not having to do much but change oil.

:hat:

Im sure my brain will reach into its archive later, and Ill add important stuff as my rusty gears turn. lol

[johnnyapollo]

I hit 85k miles this week - upgraded rotors and brake likes (stainless) about 10k miles ago - still have the original pads which amazingly still had over 80-90% on them (bought new just in case and they are still in the box - I kept the original rotors and they are still good - just wanted something less likely to rust). I've never had a bulb go out either. I did have the passenger side rear axel seal go bad (leaked fluid into the brake - didn't notice it until I was replacing the rotor). From a maintenance standpoint, the VX has been one of the best vehicles I've ever owned.

-- John

[mdwyer]

t2p - who remembers the days when we would 'blow' brake shoe dust out of a brake drum - and it would blow back into our faces ...... brake dust that contained asbestos ........ oh well .....

My father passed away from mesothelioma about a year ago. We believe his asbestos exposure came from brake dust. It is a horrible disease, and I would tell you to avoid it, except that asbestos is fricken everywhere!

As for the half-brakes, I have to tell you a story about my 1981 Dodge Aries K-car. Wow. It was a total piece of crap, but it was a perfect first car for a high school kid. After a while, the brakes started failing on it. The first stab of the peddle wouldn't do anything. The second would finally take hold and you'd slow down. This was obviously a Bad Thing, so we read the old Haynes manual and followed the troubleshooting guide.

First step? Does the brake warning light work? Well, sure it does. Stupid question. Next!!

We drained, purged, adjusted, etc. Finally, we pulled off the wheels and found that half the brakes were brand new, and half had nothing left.

It turns out that half the brake system failed, and the warning light bothered the previous owner so much that he disconnected the sensor.

Moral of the story: If you find that half your brakes are worn -- especially on the diagonal (left front and right rear) check the master cylinder. When it detects a fault in the brakes, a valve will isolate half the brakes so that you still have half a system. It SHOULD turn on a warning light, too.

Should...

[VX4EJR]

Just a question for those who have either experience or had done work to disassemble front brakes, rotors and hub:

If you pull either front wheel off, you'll see the hub and behind it the rotor. There are about 6 bolts that run into the hub and either through or into the rotor. What you see of the bolts are the fixed end nuts. Question is, do these bolts run through the rotors and ultimately bolt into something else behind the rotor or do they bolt directly into the rotor itself?

I'm trying to resolve this issue of my mysterious extruded bolt and need to understand what is stripped and be prepared with parts. So, it's either the bolt is stripped which is easy to replace. Or, it is what the bolt screws into that is stripped which I am trying to figure out what that is so when everything is disassembled and repair is needed...parts are known ahead of time.

Also, just how important is it to use caliper grease when a shop replaces brake pads? Whether it is required or not? If they don't use grease, what is the downside?


Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!!

[VX4EJR]

^

bump diddy bump....?

[blacksambo]

For what ever it's worth. Just did the front pads today on one of our '99's. They were original with 99,891 miles (Also, did the timing belt for $200, all inclusive). Replaced them with OEM for $119.00 for the pads alone, plus $37.00 labor. The rotors were fine, as is.

[rocket man]

That sounds like a terrific price Mr Sambo!!...is that at a Dealer??... Darn...I know I'm getting close to all this...

Sheepishly, I must admit, other than synthetic motor oil and filter changes, at regular 3-4K intervals....I haven't spent much on maintenance....errrrr actually ZILCH :rolleyes: @140,000+ real miles

NO..I do not burn or leak oil between changes....Pack the bearings??? Nope! :p, Change the upper and lower radiator hose??? Na!!!...How bout the transmission fluid?? Ahh yes the transmission...I'm glad I asked myself that question ;oor; ...well after all these miles For some reason, I started experiencing a "soft shift" in the gear changes. This is a very general symptom of a pending clutch pack failure in many GM trannys( in the latter part of the previous century), usually brought on by a low fluid level or "mucho" full throttle events during the gear changes.

I owned a Aamco Transmission Center in Huntington Park, Ca. between 1970-1975 so Im a little familiar with the ,"doom and gloom" of a pending transmission problem...anyways...so I thought I check the fluid level, being the, "expert" in the biz that I am???...Hummmm??? let me see here??? When was the last time I checked the fluid??? :rolleyes: Opp's never!!....

If you have not guessed by now.... I come from the school of, "IF ITS NOT BROKE DON'T FIX IT SCHOOL"....Anyway, too embarassed to ask you folks where they put the transmission dipstick in the 32 years I've been out of the biz, I finally did what I swore I would never...ever...ever..do again....I actually crawled up underneath my car ;eeky;

Na...not that I was actually trying to find the dipstick....Hell!!! I was trying to find the transmission!!! Whew!! Its comforting to know they still try to "more or less" position these components down the middle of the under belly of the car....elsewised I might have been thrown off and looked endlessly in places like the glove box....anyhow I found it!!....Long story short...I added a quart of Dextron 3( after figuring out how to put it in without having to turn her upside down) and the problem of the soft shift went away (4 now)....no sign of any leaking....nothing...AND its only been 140K miles...Im suspicious :_thinking

J

[Ldub]

Do yourself AND your a VX a favor & check for proper fluid level. ;)

(sorry for the thread jack zadam)

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/fluid1.png

[blacksambo]

Yes, it's a dealer German Auto House in Burnt Hills, New York. Ask for Marc.

[rocket man]

Thanks Sambo for the source on the pads :cool: I'm about 4K miles short of 150K on the odometer...Im gonna try to make it...when I do replace those pads its going to be OEM for sure...

Thanks also Ldub for the advice In my day were were rebuilding about 200 transmissions a month for the 5 years I was in the business before selling. Transmissions are kinda like people. Some last longer than others for various reasons. Some meticiously care for themselves and live to a ripe old age, others drink, smoke and stay up late and hang out with loose women and live forever too. Having done so much work in this biz I think my rear end has like test equipment in it or something and the minute she started to "run up" between the shifts I was on it and got fluid level up to the overflow/fill hole. Still the damage may have already been done. Nevertheless if it breaks tomorrow I can't say I got swindled. The oil is actuall still red...not crimson but not amber or burn't either. In any case, Im not a big believer in changing the oil in a transmission with high milage, especially with one that has burn't oil and varnish on the insided of the pan. You know by then where your going... when you see that symtom...start saving your money..Also I think I would opt for new rather than rebuilt. But changing oil can create more problems due to the extremly high detergent index in ATF sluffing off "chunks" of varnish that can clog important pressure lines and channels within the transmission itself. When we saw a tranny like that come into the shop we wouldn't touch it. The reason? Cause, if we did we would "buy it" for the next 90 days, which means if that customers transmission failed for whatever reason, he was coming back to you like, "flies on duty"...."Hey what did you do to screw up transmission Man"...."It was running perfect and your screwed it up" Heat is what kills a transmission. ATF not only lubricates the internal transmission components it also cools them. You can create heat by hot rodding, towing, overheating the engine, running it low fluid. Component failure such as a pump or torque converter (rare) can do it too but the bottom line is this heat thins the oil to a viscosity where the clutch packs are no longer being cooled by the fluid. These are the weak spots. The clutch packs acts as a "cushion" between the shifts from one gear to another. When those components get worn or "glazed" trouble is not far behind...there is no cure for this. As the cluch pack tolerances increase the more noticable the "slip" becomes between shifts. The more slip the more heat and and on and on.

Anyway thank you AND your right you gotta have that fluid checked...They supposedly do that over at Wal-Mart every time I get the motor oil changed...now I think NOT ;eekg; Whats funny to me is not a drop of oil anywhere on the floor of my garage from any source. Im not sure but I don't think this is a "vacuum modulated" transmission, which is the only other place this oil could disappear without hitting the floor. Oh well if its a 3/4 th of a Qt. leak over the next 140K miles I guess I could spring for the cost... :laughing: