losing oil? between changes

[UtahVXer]

Shortly after I got my VX a friend with one told me to keep an eye on the motor oil level. He bought his new and has maintained it meticulously with synthetics etc. But says it is normal for our engines to lose a little between changes. I have been checking mine almost every fill-up but have yet to lose a single drop. I am just curious to know how many others need to top of the oil between changes and if so how much.

[AnalogVX]

I have noticed that sometimes I use about a quart between changes. And sometimes, like between this change, I haven't used hardly any. Go figure.:rolleyes:
Either way, I have heard enough about it to keep a real close eye on it.

[Moncha]

I always check my oil, on an extreme regular basis. You know me. Even though I don't have that many miles, 30k but, not easy miles ;). I have not had any problems with consumption. There are several posts regarding changing out the PCV valve on a regular basis and that helps with oil usage.

[t2p]

Just a guess ........
.
There *appears* to be an issue with the 3.5 V6 ........
.
not sure if this issue is limited to the early 3.5's .......
.
faulty oil control ring(s) .......... ring material ? ........... tolerances (tight or loose (fit) ...... or the placement (on the piston - too high or low) ? ........
.
or high crankcase pressure ......... if that is the correct term .....
?
.
PCV valve ? ......... I don't believe the PCV valve is the problem, but rather a symptom of another issue ....... regardless, PCV replacement on the 3.5 is common .......
.
one of the above ....... or a combination of the above ......... can/may affect the operation of the PCV valve, etc ...........
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again, a combination of the above appears to lead to oil consumption - signficant oil consumption at times ...........
.
again, a guess - I am semi familiar with the operation of the internal combustion engine, but certainly not a mechanical engineer .....

[PDOGG23]

According to the Isuzu Dealer that drove my VX through the shop door, it is definitely a common problem with our motor. I am about a quart low EVERY oil change. Of course they try and talk you into a PCV Valve Flush everytime, my rule of thumb is every 15,000, or 3 changes I'll get the flush.

Apparently Isuzu feels it's 'Normal' to lose up to 3 quarts per 3,000 miles before they deem the motor to have a problem! Can you believe that! Once you get talking to these mechanics, you can find out some real bogus sh*t! ;eekg;

[mrtew]

Can't you just change your PCV valve for about a dollar? I haven't done it yet but I thought that's what I read here. And that's it's really important. Maybe I should do it.

[Cyrk]

All this talk about the PCV, just went to PepBoys and picked one up for 3.99. Can't hurt.
-Dave

[joe-yamma]

When I got the 30k service, they changed my PCV and my VX is still using oil. I quit using Amsoil because it was getting too expensive to top off all the time and I switched to Mobil 1.

I have been keping track of the oil consumption and it looks like almost 1 qt/ 1000 miles.

Is there anything in writing from Isuzu that states what they feel is "acceptable?"

Don't get me wrong, I love my VX... I just wish it wasn't using so much oil

[Cyrk]

Just finished changing the PVC, the old one made no noise nothing... good thing I checked... new one went in no problem will see if it helps the little fluctuation I have at start up. I also have been using abut a quart between oil changes.

I used the Purolator #PV1061, it is a little bigger than the factory one hope that it is all ok.

Will be keeping an eye on this, and will continue to change every once in a while. Since mine VX has only 35K and the valve was shot.

Thanks guys for you input.

-Dave

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

I wound up changing mine at 33,000 miles even though it still "rattled" when you shook it...I will be changing mine from here on out probably every 2 or 3 oil changes which equates to
6,000 to 9,000 mile intervals...as so many have said it is a small price to pay for some piece of mind...approx $3.99 and 5 minutes or less of your time.

[tomcat837]

I want to flush my system and move to syntetic oil, any thoughts or advice on this?

[Dallas4u]

*Edit... don't know why, but I had transmission in my head, not oil. You don't need a "flush". As stated below, just drain the old oil and refill with synth.

I'd personally go with Mobil 1... easy to find and highly rated.

There ya go! :thumbup:

[tomcat837]

How do I make sure they do it right?
I have used some fluid in oil changes before that sort of washes the inside of the engine. You warm up the engine, pour it in and run it for about 5 minutes, then drain the oil.

Like I said, I have used this before on other vehicles, but I didnt care about those vehicle like I care about my VX.

The main reason I want to do something like this is because when we started discussing about the PCV valve, I jumped from my seat and went to Auto Zone. When I removed the old one, it still had some play in it, but it was surrounded by gunk, even that little grommet that holds it in place was covered by it and I removed it by hand.

So that got me thinking, if the gunk is way up there, I can imagine what the inside must look like... Well I don't really want to know, I just wanted GONE.

What do you guys think?

[SGT.BATGUANO]

Just change over to syn. Skip the flush. The syn will clean the insides. I believe Tone posted using engine flush every other change. Search it out.

[Andrey]

Originally posted by AnalogVX
I have noticed that sometimes I use about a quart between changes. And sometimes, like between this change, I haven't used hardly any. Go figure

same here.... once in a while it takes oil and then no oil consumption at all..... nobody can really figure out this stuff...

[Whaleboy]

I lost my previous '99 VX due to mystery oil loss. Ended up throwing a rod. Was replaced under extended warranty, then traded it in and bought a '01.

After having the shortblock replaced I had a lengthy discussion with the isuzu tech that redid my engine. He talked about not enough oil getting to certain cylinders due to some type of channel not being wide enough, or something to that effect. This being a problem with the 3.5L engine in general. If it's true, who knows.

I should've taken it in sooner to have looked at, because it was lower on oil before changes then it should have been (imho). But yet, no leaks - nothing.

Not making the same mistake twice. I'm seeing the same as the rest here. Right before one change, the stick showed the oil at ADD. This was after roughly 4,300 miles since last change.

I have an open ticket with the Isuzu dealer currently, great buncha guys there. They have me bring my car in every 1,000 miles and they do the diagnostics and record oil levels. Time before last I was a quart lower then I should have been. But just last time the oil usage was rated as "perfect".

It hasn't been regular enough to really merit any action one way or another thus far, though the service manager tells me next round if it's at a loss again they'll pull it apart and see what they can replace.

[tomcat837]

Well, thank you to these posts... lo and behold I checked my oil today and it was about two quarts low. I went about 4000 miles since last change. Went with the oil "flush" and syntethic oil this time. I finally had to order the upper radiator hose, since it has a pin size hole in it that sprays when I "punch it" due to pressure build up. The oil place will change the hose for me when I take it in to do a radiator flush. they also inspected the transaxle fluid and it looks a little dark, so that will come next, not sure about the rest of the transmission though.

On a different note, I got my aluminum mesh grille insert from Carlymac today, can't wait to install it. Ordered the Yakima roof rack fairing, should get it in about another week. Ordered the factory headlight covers today, so I should be trying that out next week and then posting instructions and pics, shouldn't be too hard.

More later...

Julio

[joe-yamma]

I just want to keep this thread alive...

Whale boy, what ever happened with your VX and the oil consumption?

I have been tracking my oil consumption and it has gone from 1 qt per 1000 miles to 1 qt per 500 miles.
That's using Mobil 1 synthetic 10w-30, driving about 80 miles per day, 1/2 city, 1/2 highway.

I called my local dealership (Bowser Isuzu) and they told me to bring it into them. They have to change the oil to whatever 10w-30 they use and an Isuzu filter. Then I bring it back into them after 1000 miles to see what the level is. It sounded to me like the situation that you were in Whaleboy.

Anyway, there's the situation, i'll keep you guys posted.

Joe

Here's what I've beendoing to keep track of the consumption:
Date, Odometer, Amt added, Notes
05/15/04 46,104 n/a 5.00 Oil Change - Mobil 1 Synthetic
05/27/04 46,610 506 0.67 Mobil 1 Synthetic, 10w-30
05/31/04 46,930 320 0.50 Mobil 1 Synthetic, 5w-40
06/05/04 47,343 413 1.00 Mobil 1 Synthetic, 5w-40
06/14/04 47,902 559 1.00 Mobil 1 Synthetic, 10w-30
06/21/04 48,323 421 1.00 Mobil 1 Synthetic, 10w-30

[Triathlete]

Do a search on PVC valve. VXcaver was experiencing a big oil loss and found it to be the PVC valve. After changing it he has not had a problem with oil consumption. He did a write up on it.
Sounds like your local Zu dealer is looking for time. The type of oil/filter you are using is better than what they want to put in it and should have no bearing on the problem. Instead they should be using their time trying to figure out where your oil is going!

[t2p]

I believe JY did change the PCV ...........
.
One dealer also told me the EGR valve/system could be a/the culprit in cases such as this .......... ???
.
It would be interesting to see the numbers a compression check would yield ............

[joe-yamma]

yup, PCV changed 2-3k miles ago.

my VX was making the "diesel-type" sound for awhile, but i checked the EGR and it looked to be ok.

triathlete: i agree... they're gonna put some cheap 10w-30 and a "ZU filter (who even makes that filter i wonder?).

oh well, i guess i gotta play their game, so i'll go ahead through it and see where it takes me. i'll keep you all posted.

[t2p]

my VX was making the "diesel-type" sound for awhile, but i checked the EGR and it looked to be ok
.
maybe the EGR 'system' needs to be serviced ......... whatever that is ............
.

[joe-yamma]

maybe :confused:
i'll make sure to ask them about it...
maybe they can check it without too much fuss.

[Dallas4u]

Originally posted by joe-yamma
my VX was making the "diesel-type" sound for awhile, but i checked the EGR and it looked to be ok.

When you say you "checked the EGR", do you mean you just looked at it, touched it, felt around on it? The "diesel" sound that many of us have experienced HAS come from the EGR valve, but more specifically the nut from under the mount for the valve has come loose. The nut holds the EGR pipe tight against the mount and, if the nut comes loose, you will hear a grumbling type of "diesel" sound. Check under the EGR valve, right under the piece it is mounted on... wiggle the EGR pipe nut to see if it is loose at all.

[t2p]

I have a 2001 limited edition w/22666 mi.on it.I picked it up and when I got home checked it over,being a heavy truck mechanic I had to check under the hood found I was a qt. and a half low! Dealer gave me a free oil change for this "oversight".that was at 17600 mi. at 19000 It was a qt.low again! Dealer said to change oil bring in so they could check and document it.No leaks found,said to bring back if happens again that a qt.per thousand miles was acceptable!Can u believe that? Now at 22666 it's almost a qt. low again. Any one else having a consumption prob.?I have an isuzu w/ 150,000 mi.on it and it doesn't use a qt. between oil changes,nor does my GTO with over a hundred thousand on it. The PT is a joy to drive and only gets driven once every 8-10 days maybe,mostly hiway,have found no signs of leaks,using mobile-1 oil.Any info appreciated.
.
Here is a guy with a PT Cruiser with 22K - and it has an oil consumption problem ....... meanwhile, he has an Isuzu with 150K on it and it does not use oil ..........
.

[joe-yamma]

hey guys, i just want to update and keep this thread alive.

i stopped at the dealership today and made an appt to get the oil changed next Thursday so that they can monitor my VX for oil consumption.
they're gonna check a rattle that i have as well as the EGR tube, etc as well.

i had a conversation with the Isuzu service manager for awhile and he said some interesting things.

1.) He said the VX takes 6.2 quarts of oil. I told him it takes 5 and he told me i was wrong. I made a copy of both the owners manual page and the page in the service manual where it says 5 qts with a filter change and I will be taking them in to him on Thursday.

2.) He told me that he wouldn't use anything but an OEM filter and went into some "scare tactic" story about filters blowing up because they're the wrong size.
I was waiting for him to say something about "voiding the warranty" but luckily (for him) he didn't. I told him that I think the Purolator Pure One filter is just as good if not better than the OEM filter. Does anyone know who make the OEM filter? He started saying that the OEM filter has some feature that the aftermarket ones do not, but couldn't remember what it was and said he would ask the Isuzu tech on Monday. :rollb:

In regards to #1, I am very concerned. If they put 6.2 qts, it will be way overfilled. Then I come in after 1000 miles and they check the oil level it will probably be on "full" since it started way above that and then used oil down to there.

I don't care what he says, I know how to change oil and if i put in 5 qts and run the vehicle and then check it and the oil is at the full line, then that's what it takes. Anyone have any opinions?

I'm gonna call Isuzu on Monday to see what they say the VX takes with an oil and filter change.
If they say 5 qts, I will make sure that the dealership does not put more than that in.

[SGT.BATGUANO]

Mine takes 5.5 qts. with filt.

Check your oil level in front of them when they bring your truck up, if your worried about overfill.

[VX4EJR]

Hey Joe....

My two cents are that what is documented in the owners manual and in dealership/manufacturer workshop specs is 5 whatever quarts of oil into the engine when changed with a filter on the VX. What this guy you were talking to says is just that, talk, it's verbal and holds no accountability if something goes wrong if you were to throw 6 quarts in. Especially when the printed word says differently.
As far as the OEM filter goes, that has to be a load of doggy doo. I mean if after-market filters would cause problems to a VX, then I am sure those after-market manufacturers would not be advertising theirs to go into a VX.
All in all, my opinion, this dude you talked to is misinformed, uneducated and not equipped to hold his job. Quite frankly I see that a lot when at the dealership talking to any service manager. They are just that, managers, and don't have the hands-on experience or knowledge of cars to make such claims.
That's all I have to say about that.

[Green Dragon]

Never but never overfill the oil as this will raise crankcase pressure to unacceptable levels. Oil might possibly come out of the dipstick tube and also would force oil past the rear main seal.

Bob F

[joe-yamma]

thanks for the opinions guys. i definitely think he is wrong and i will have the documentation to prove it.

i will be there in the waiting room watching them change the oil and i will make it perfectly clear that i will not accept more then the proper amount be put in.

and i will definitely want to see the dipstick for myself before i leave.

i'll let you guys know how it goes.

[Mtn VX]

After reading these posts this morning I decided to check the oil myself. I'm new to my '99 VX and wasn't aware of this problem until I checked this thread out. To my surprise, even though I'm not due for my next oil change for another 500 miles (I do it every 3000 miles), I have ZERO oil left on the dipstick. Talk about a dangerous situation. And the "Check Oil" light never came on. Is this normal???

I've reloaded more oil and everything seems to be fine...(hope hope). Does anyone have any thoughts about what point would the oil warning light would have come on? Geez, maybe I have a faulty oil sensor, too.

[SGT.BATGUANO]

Yes, it's normal.

The oil light works by pressure. and would not go on till the pressure drops below a certain level (somewhere around 20 psi).

It has nothing to do with the level, unless that gets so low that the oil pickup can't suck in any oil. Then you're really in trouble.

Is this your first oil change sine purchasing? If so, I would change the filter, add 1/2 can of motor flush (following its' instructions) , drain all the oil and change the filter (yes, again) and refill. also install a new pcv.

The reasoning behind this is that since the oil was so low, it was extra dirty and caused the filter to work harder and become dirtier. It could also contribute to varnish or sludge in the engine.

While you're at it , replace the pcv and check your oil level at every other gas fillup. Watch for excessive oil consumption.

[Mtn VX]

It's my third oil change. Thanks for your advice; it's real helpful to a noobee. I'll get everything you suggest done to make sure I don't run into any problems in the future with the oil levels.

[Whaleboy]

joe-yamma, in response to your question I haven't brought it back to the dealership yet. I spoke with the tech a few weeks ago, and he suggested I wait longer to bring it in then the normal 1000 miles to really gauge any type of oil loss.

The change is due as of today, so I'll be bringing it in there monday or tuesday and we'll see how it goes.

When my '99 started getting close to the point it threw that rod, I noticed the engine was getting generally louder and louder as time went on. So when I bought my '01, I paid real close attention to how audible the engine was at 40mph. It was EXTREMELY quiet.

These days (36,000 miles later then when I purchased it) the engine is obviously louder then it was before, again. It's a real concern for me - then again I may just be paranoid. And this may just be a fact of the car getting older. But that engine sure is noiser then it was before.

About to go get an extended warranty thats for certain.

[t2p]

JY:

Regardless of what the Isuzu Service Manager said (Bruce ?) - the Bowser Isuzu tech - the one and only - has 13 years experience and should know the engine oil capacity of the VX.
.
Maybe the Service Manager was confused with the Trooper - maybe the Trooper 3.5 uses a different oil pan and has additional capacity ?
.
In any event, I just had the oil changed in my VX at Bowser - and I am happy to report that the oil level measured exactly at the full line on the dipstick.
.

[t2p]

It has nothing to do with the level, unless that gets so low that the oil pickup can't suck in any oil. Then you're really in trouble.
.
Reminds me of a customer I had when I worked the pumps at a full service station in the 70's .......... a customer with a Chevy Vega. The Vega was a real oil burner. They burned oil as they were driven off the showroom floor.
.
I checked the oil and it did not register on the dipstick. I reported this to the customer - and her reply was that the 'light did not come on' - and that she was going to 'get it changed anyway'.
.
I replied 'The engine or the oil ?'.
.
Speaking of the Vega, it appears GM did not learn their lesson well - 20 years later, the Saturn engine is another oil burner.

[joe-yamma]

went in today and got the oil changed... supposedly they put in 5.8 qts. they pulled the vx to the door and let me check the dipstick and it was exactly on the fill line.

now i drive it for 1000 miles and take it back in to be checked. i will be checkin git myself also and i have a feeling i'll be taking it in by 500 miles because it'll be a qt low.

anyway, i'll keep you guys posted.

t2p - when i first got there, bruce and i almost got into a pissing match, but we cooled out after talking while checking the dipstick. i still think he's a good guy. we'll have to see how this oil thing goes.
he did mention that someone was in with a vx and said they had talked to me on the forum. i said tom and he said yep. :D

[mrtew]

I just drove across the country and back again, and had to add a total of 1.5 quarts in 5000 miles. Seems like it always burns a little oil climbing the Rocky Mountains. Almost never uses any at other times.

[joe-yamma]

just a quick update: about 350 miles so far after the oil change and the level looks good.

i forgot to tell you guys in my last update (sorry, i've been busy as hell)... 2 days before i took my vx in to get the oil changed so that they can monitor the consumption, my EGR nut came completely off !!! the thing rattled completely down and was rattling on the EGR tube.

i managed to get it thread back up on there and got it pretty tight with the 22mm (what a pain)... my fingers hurt for a couple of days too.

i had the tech check and he said the nut was good and tight. i think the EGR has been loose for some time and that was contributing to the oil consumption. i'm not saying that mine won't consume any oil now, but i won't be convinced things are ok until after the 100 miles.

if my consumption is greatly reduced, that will be a big weight off of my shoulders. i think then i'll start looking forward into cleaning the EGR and trying to get my engine as clean as possible.
Anyone following the suggestions from this website for using Techron and then Sea-foam?
http://www.geocities.com/endre_rl/isuzufaq.htm#faq1

Ok, just thought I'd tell you guys the good news!

[mrtew]

Originally posted by joe-yamma
...my EGR nut came completely off !!! the thing rattled completely down and was rattling on the EGR tube.
i managed to get it thread back up on there and got it pretty tight with the 22mm (what a pain)... my fingers hurt for a couple of days too.


How the heck to you tighten that nut way under there? I'd sure like to see a picture of the wrench you guys are using and how you are using it. I can't even tell if mine is loose or not, it's so buried. I've got the cover off the engine, but I still can't get to the nut!

[Dallas4u]

Before my SC was installed it use to come off frequently. One time I was putting it back on I was twisting it so much that I got a blister on my freakin index finger! I did get a wrench back there, in enough to make VERY small turns, but enough to tighten it so it wouldn't loosen anymore.

Now that the SC has been installed I have had no problems with it what-so-ever.

[joe-yamma]

i almost had that index finger blister too !!! ouch!
to get it threaded up on there I had to reach up under there "palm up" and turn it 1/2 turn at a time until i coulcn;t turn it anymore.
then i got my 22 mm and got about 1/4-1/3 turn at a time. once you get it going, you'lll get a little bit of a turn and then flip the wrench over and another little bit of a turn, etc. also, those two tubes coming down on the side of the EGR tube are in the way, but they have alittle bit of give to them.
definitely not fun, but it worked. just give the vx plenty of time to cool off and be patient.

[joe-yamma]

update: checked the oil this weekend and the level was off of the dipstick after 750 miles. i took it into the dealership today and they checked it and topped it off. they stated that it took 1 quart.

my experience is with the oil at that level on the dipstick, it'll take about 1.5 qts, but i wasn't going to argue over it.

so now i'm looking at 1 qt used in 750 miles with 250 more miles to go during the "oil consumption monitoring."

i'll update you all at the 1000 mile mark when i take it back to the dealership with more than 1 qt/1000 mile used. (i'm predicting the future here guys) ;)

joe

[joe-yamma]

update: took the VX in last Monday after another 318 miles and it used 3/4 of a quart. service manager asked for my oil change info and i gave him all of the receipts that i had for oil changes and misc qts for topping off fluid.

i am waiting for him to speak to the regional isuzu rep to let me know what they are going to do. current mileage = 51,343 miles

another update: service manager is supposed to speak to isuzu rep today about oil consumption. right before i exit the highway on my way to wokr this morning, CEL comes on and "Check Trans" light starts flashing.
roadside assist didn't have a tow co in the area, so dealership came and picked it up on a flatbed.
VX is now sitting at dealership awaiting isuzu rep to advise on oil consumption problem and trans problem.

thanks goodness this happend at 51k and not 61k :D

i'll keep you all posted.
joe

[Maugan_VX]

did the trans go into limp-home mode? (stay in third gear)?

Whens the last time you cleaned the EGR?

[joe-yamma]

Originally posted by Maugan_VX
did the trans go into limp-home mode? (stay in third gear)?
Whens the last time you cleaned the EGR?
I read about the "Backup Mode" in the owners manual, but no it did not seem like it was in third.

I have never cleaned the EGR. I made sure to replace the PCV (actually, the dealership did that) and I ran the Chevron Techron concentrate once.

Once I charted the oil usage and saw how bad it was getting, I decided to take it to the dealership and let them handle it.
I have no problem with actually cleaning the EGR myself, but I didn't want to do anything wrong and have the dealership try to blame me for it, especially with how close I am to the drivetrain warranty expiring.

But now that I think of it... Should I have to go through all of that on a vehicle with only 51k that is driven mostly on the highway with at least 89 octane and is well-maintained? :confused:

Either way, my main reason for not cleaning the EGR was fear of finger-pointing by the dealership.

[Maugan_VX]

now that you mention it, it would be hard to document that you actually cleaned the EGR. I mean all you need is a can of carb cleaner.

Interesting, someone should call isuzu and ask about it. I DO know that they are ok with you changing your oil as long as you have receipts to prove it.

Oh and in my extensive experience with the 4L30E, the light starts flashing when either the fluid is to low and it starts overheating (although theres supposed to be an trans overheat light for that) or when there are electrical issues in the vehicle. Ever messed with the alternator? Aftermarket stereo?

[joe-yamma]

like i said, i was just playing it safe. after the warranty is out i'll probably check and clean the EGR regularly eve if just as cheap insurance.
i will admit that having to do this does kind of piss me of though. oh well, i guess that's just the price we have to pay for owner this unique vehicle.

as for the oil changes: after they monitored the oil consumption and saw that it was using at least twice their "allowed" amount (2 qts per 1000 miles, actually, 1.75 qts in 750 miles) the first thing they asked me for was receipts for oil changes.

if you're changing your own oil, definitely keep good records just in case. (at least until the warranty expires)

[joe-yamma]

Originally posted by Maugan_VX
Oh and in my extensive experience with the 4L30E, the light starts flashing when either the fluid is to low and it starts overheating (although theres supposed to be an trans overheat light for that) or when there are electrical issues in the vehicle. Ever messed with the alternator? Aftermarket stereo?
never messed with the alternator... i did replace the battery about a month ago (actually, I got one at wal-mart and let them change it).
i just put a pioneer head-unit in last friday night... how would this cause a problem with the trans? :confused:

[Maugan_VX]

well a new headunit isn't going to cause it to trip. When the voltage gets to low for the solenoids they throw a code and the lights come on.

The deal will read the codes from the computer and let you know whats up.

[joe-yamma]

ok, cool. i know it is installed properly. i used a plug in type harness and connected that into the head unit so that the stock wiring harness is safe. :D the install went very well.

as for the trans fluid: the dealership checked the trans about 12,000 miles ago. i had them do the 30,000 mile service at about 40,000 since i could not find the service records from the previous owner and i wanted to play it safe.
at that time they said the trans fluid looked great and did not need changed until 60k. i even had a case of Amsoil Syn ATF in the back in case it needed done (it's now sitting in my garage awaiting the 60k mile mark and service).

thanks for the info/advice Maugan.

i'll keep you guys posted on what they find out about the trans and the oil consumption.

[Green Dragon]

Check your Isuzu Vehicross service manual ( CD) under Excessive oil consumption. When you find any reference to cleaning the EGR valve under remedy please let me know. PVC Valve YES, EGR NO-EGR only shows up under emissions control. For those of you that are not mechanics perhaps the dealer will clean it for you under your emissions warranty but don't bet on it.
For those of you burning your fingers, try checking the EGR nut on every weekend before starting out, less burned fingers that way.
There are no TSBs that addresss excessive oil consumption with the possible exception of IB02-01-S004 which deals with the proper setting of Piston Rings
My Point being if the EGR really is causing the oil consumption problem then Isuzu should be held responsible, especially when your vehicle passes Emission Control checks.

Bob F

[Corey872]

Just thought I'd tack my recent experience on this thread, although I see the last post is almost a year old.

I guess I could sum everything up - VX owner - 10 days and counting, miles driven ~840 and counting, oil used - 3 quarts and counting.

More specifically - Just got back from the first interstate trip in the new VX. Checked the oil before leaving home and it was right on the top hole of the dipstick. So we make the first 350 mile leg of the journey and I had some time to kill, so "just for the heck of it" decided to check the oil again - GOOD F-ING THING! - No oil on the dipstick and it took 1-1/2 quarts to bring it back up to full! I remembered reading about the PCV valve on the forums, so I drop the $3 and 3 minutes to change that out also.

We do a little "around town" driving over the next couple of days then set out on the return trip. Got home late last night and I checked the oil this morning - SAME THING! Wind up putting in my remaining 1/2 quart from the first add and another full quart just to bring the oil back up to slightly below the full hole. I could probably crack open a fourth quart and add a few more oz. to get up to full.

This thing is literally using as much oil as my 2 stroke engines! 1-1/2 quarts every tank of gas - work out the numbers and it is pretty close to 50:1 which is the same premix that my jet skis use. It is kind of strange, though - you never see any blue smoke and the spark plugs looked perfectly healthy (checked all of that on the original test drive) I don't see any outward clues that the engine is an oil burner, except the oil just disappears (no real leaks either).

So I guess the big question is - Has anyone actually stopped the oil burning on one of these engines? I've read about the motor flushes, PCV, EGR, etc but does any of that actually work?

At this point I don't know what to do. I love the VX, got a ton of compliments on it, but with this oil consumption, I'd literally have to carry a case of oil in the back to dump in nearly 2 quarts at every gas stop.

It is still within the 3-mo 3000 mile powertrain warranty from the dealer. Don't know if it will cover oil burning or not but I may have to call and find out.

Any thoughts on the oil burning??

Thanks
Corey

[VXcaver]

Corey- In Feb, 2004, at about 60k my VX was burning oil way worse than I was comfortable with. At its worst (Highway driving), I was loosing about 1 quart every 700 miles. On average, about a quart every 1000. I changed out the PCV valve and later cleaned the EGR and have continued to monitor oil and periodically replace the PCV valve. I've now got 82,000 miles on the truck and am loosing about 1 quart consistently every 2000 miles. I can live with this.

You, however, have a warranty. I'd definetly think about talking to the dealer about it while you have the chance.

[VehiGAZ]

Any thoughts, you ask? Yeah, here's one... BRING IT BACK TO THE DEALER!!!

Dude, you have a HUGE oil burning problem and a warranty. Use the latter to avoid getting stuck with the former.

Look, the previous owner obviously knew it had a problem and dumped it before the engine blew on him. Don't get stuck with the same problem.

And don't let the dealer BS you on the oil burning not being a drivetrain problem. Oil burning is not much of a problem in itself, but it IS a symptom of an engine problem, and last time I checked, the engine was part of the drivetrain.

Don't think that a case of oil in the back is going to "solve" anything! There is something very wrong in that engine that won't get solved by a good supply of oil.

They may try to figure out what's wrong with it and fix it, or they may just ask to take it back from you rather than lose money on a huge repair or engine replacement. That may suck, but you're not going to get any compliments on it when it's sitting by the side of the road with a seized engine! If it's a terminal problem, give it back to them and find another one in better shape. Yours is rare, but it's not the only VX on the market, either.

Good luck Corey!

[Offroad vx]

I too am in the midst of an oil consumption problem. I'm using about a quart every 500 miles. My VX is still under factory warranty so I'm having an oil consumption test being done by the dealer. I was already approved for a new motor when the service mgr. skipped with my paperwork (Go Isuzu site member). I don't much care for the new dealership that is doing the test now but if it gets me a new motor I'll put up with their rudeness. But just be sure to keep on top of checking your oil because if you're not under warranty you'll be buying a new one yourself!

[psychos2]

i have been losing a quart per 3000 miles.about 2 months ago i cleaned the egr and replaced the pcv valve. the egr valve was sticking. i did an oil change 1000 miles ago and the oil has not gone down at all.i will keep monitoring and post results. shawn

[SGT.BATGUANO]

See if your warranty will let you go to an Isuzu dealer and get on the oil consumption monitoring program. With your loss rate, it shouldn't take long to determine that there is a problem.

It doesn't sound good though.

[Corey872]

Just wanted to update the continuing saga - (don't know if it's better to post a new thread or keep it all under this one?)

Shortly after the earlier posting on the forum, I called the dealer and explained everything to him (guess I should point out that this deal was through Auto Exchange, not through a "regular" car dealer or an Isuzu dealer. But so far, they have been good to deal with - knock on wood!

Anyway, we had a nice civil conversation. I explained that I never saw any leaks, smoke, black plugs, or signs the oil was getting out of the engine, it always ran good and averaged 18.5MPG for the trip (mostly 75MPH interstate w/ AC running) but had to add the three quarts in about 750 miles of driving. He ask me to document everything on paper and drive it the rest of this week to document if it needed more oil, then said to get in touch with him on Monday and give him all the docs and he would see what they can do to get it taken care of.

So pretty much in a holding pattern right now and waiting to see what their "taken care of" will amount to. Part of me is wanting them to agree to just swap vehicles back and consider the transaction null and void (I'd still probably look for some other VX) The other part is hoping that they would agree to refund a couple thousand off the purchase price for a replacement engine. (Been doing some reading on the 3.5L DI!)

Will keep everyone posted on the progress.

Corey

[TechnoPope]

:wtfr:
My wife's '01 hit 4400 miles since I changed over to Mobile 1. Yesterday, I took it to have the oil changed. Pulled out the dipstick and nothing registered but a wad of sludge on the tip. I had a full engine flush and refilled with Mobile 1. As noted by others in this thread, there was no sign of oil burning or leaking over the past few months.
I immediately checked the '99. 3000 miles since change over to Mobile 1. Again, only a drip on the tip of the dipstick. I took it in today and had a minor oil flush (they did not have enough product to do the drain/flush/drain procedure). There was a different manager there today. He told me that the Isuzu 3.5 was known to need frequent PCV valve changes to prevent excessive oil burn. He told me there were several oil starved Isuzu engine failures he knew of and one instance where Isuzu had to replace the engine (No news to us but it was interesting he knew of the problem and history). I changed the PCV valve right away and came home to search our site to confirm his advice. First hit was this thread. Thank you VehiCROSS.info. It appears that this oil burn problem is common and another issue for me to monitor. As a result of this new education, I have a few questions for the community.
1. Is one brand/design PCV valve better than another? The oil change manager told me that he heard that there was one design that would fit/was specified for our engine but did not perform properly, but he could not be more specific.
2. I thought that Mobile 1 would not break down and create much sludge. Would the sludge be coming from left over petroleum oil in the engine?
3. If our engines are running fine, show no signs of oil burn out the exhaust, no leaks, or even plug fouling, where is the oil going? Several quarts synthetic carried through the PCV seems hard to imagine?
4. A few members have recently made some very long trips in their VXs. I was wondering if they experienced noteable oil burn - or is this problem more common with stop and go driving?
Thanks in advance for any replies.

[Ldub]

I haven't experienced any excessive oil loss, but I do have a preference when it comes to PCV valves.
The purolator PV1061 is the free floating ball type, rather than being spring loaded.It has a nice rattle to it when shaken, & should be easier to clean/re-use than a spring loaded type.
Also, I check the oil EVERY time I fill gas...just in case.

Ldub

[Raque Thomas]

On your PCV valve question, I have seen (and purchased) two different types - the first is a one piece design that mimics the OEM one, the second is two pieces. I bought the two piece unit (at Pep Boys - I think), because that's all they had. I started throwing "Lean on bank 1" codes not long after. The light would come on, then go off. Took it to the dealer twice, spent $68 to find out the PCV valve was sucking air sometimes because of the 2 piece design. Bought the one piece design and the problem stopped.

[Offroad vx]

Received my results from my oil consumption test.... my new motor is on order!! If any are having oil loss problems I suggest you get it in to a dealer if it's still under warranty and maybe you'll be getting a new one too!

[mbeach]

Offroad VX - Congratulations! It's about time Isuzu has had to foot a nice bill for some of our troubles.

TechnoPope - Neither of my VXs have had any oil consumption issues *knock*knock*, both were city drivers prior to making the long haul up north. I'm curious about the oil flush and fill procedure you mentioned -it sounds like a good way to stir up trouble. Whenever I has switched a vehicle over to synthetic (either Royal Purple or Mobil 1), I have changed the oil(s) like normal. I simply reduced to interval from 5k to 3k miles for the first few changes. I never actually tried to 'flush' anything from the engine. I do change the oil immediately after the car has been driven and the oil is scalding hot (a leftover anality from my Bimmer days) -this seems to take more of the sludge-producing mung out of the engine with each change.
You may want to look into the Seafoam engine cleaners that have been touted on here, it may be that your wife's VX might have lived its previous life dining on Quaker State.
I use only Purolater filters and PCVs if this matters.
Oh, and stay away from the Midas on Riverside Dr.


EDIT: I have been crediting the wrong person for doing the research on the oil-pumping phenomena. Green Dragon has found the relevent articles, which can be located within this thread:
http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=6815&page=2&pp=15&highlight=oil+pumping

[mbeach]

It's funny that I resurrect this thread, only to post some bad news right behind my earlier (positive) post.

Last night, (during a snowstorm no less), the wife's Dragon started burning oil.
Well, to be exact, I checked the oil 300 miles ago (at fillup) and it was AOK, but last night, there was NOTHING on the dipstick. 1.5 quarts later and it was alright. That's some pretty heavy usage, even for a VX I figure.

Well, here's what happened, and I suspect that I might not be the only one out there.
While adding the first quart of oil, I noticed a slight amount of smoke/steam rising from the vicinity of the EGR valve -hmm, says I. I have the wife pour in the other .5 quart while I jam my head/hand/flashlight into the little nook at the left rear of the engine bay.
We use a very light (0W) synthetic oil, so it's difficult to see -but there is a leak. It's a small cut/tear in the valve cover gasket, at the rear corner of the cover. When the engine is started, and placed under load, the oil pressure forces a small but steady stream of oil out of this breach and right onto the exhaust manifold/EGR pipe/valve where it is immediately vaporized. Very little smell, and almost no smoke. This leak went from nothing to serious in just a few minutes I figure.

This is a 38k mile VX with an excellent service history. No work has been done to the heads/valve covers since it left Japan.

[Anita]

excellent sleuthing... thank you for sharing what you found.

[mbeach]

My diagnosis was just confirmed.

The nearest Isuzu dealer is 400ish miles away, so I took it to an "authorized Isuzu service center" here in Fairbanks.
The tech there states: "she's leakin' pretty good" (at the valve cover gasket).

The leak is nearly INVISIBLE as well. You really have to get in just the right position to even detect it. The stream is small, and only travels about 1.5 inches before it is burned off. The design of the valve cover seal is such that a small tear will become a major leak very quickly.

I advise all drivers who are experiencing excessive oil consumption, or who have suddenly lost 1+ quarts of oil to check their valve cover gaskets thoroughly. This is not the only problem with the motor, but at least it's something detectable and easy enough to repair.

The new gasket is on order and covered by warranty. YeeHaa.

[Anita]

I think this is an important enough post that it should be placed on the front page of the site so everyone will see it even after days go by and the thread moves down the list. What ya' think? Scott?

[AlaskaVX]

The nearest Isuzu dealer is 400ish miles away, so I took it to an "authorized Isuzu service center" here in Fairbanks.

Ha be glad your 400 miles away from this dealership as they will fight to the death trying not to cover anything. Heck I just went there to see if they had a bolt for the front drive shaft since mine is stripped and didn't want to put it back in. They didn't have any there but would gladly order me one from Japan, "Would you like to pay for second day shipping?" :rolleyes: . What would happen if they stripped that bolt while it was being serviced? (throw it back in there for you to never get it out)

[mbeach]

Just picked her up from the shop.

Leaking valve cover gasket -warranty
Leaking coolant at intake manifold gasket -warranty
Leaking coolant at heater tube -warranty

Isuzu was actually alright to deal with, it was the 'local' dealer (same one AlaskaVX was referring to) that seemed to be the rusty bolt. I have to work through them to get anything done locally.

Again, as a reminder, CHECK THOSE VALVE COVERS!

[Joe_Black]

Glad to hear you got that resolved! I bet it was hard to see the leak with that 0W in there!

Here's a good kit for finding all kinds of automotive leaks in any vehicle the easy way: UV Tracer Kit (http://www.bradystools.com/lefikittrprt.html)

[crager34]

OUTSTANDING!!! I too have experienced this issue and now have something to look for, other than...."oh, it's just something this engine does".

Thanks (man I love this board)