Help Help No more 4WD

[iyafyl]

So, now that we got 24 inches of snow overnight, I have no more 4WD. Honestly I can't say for sure that I ever did since I bought the VX recently and didn't need 4WD yet. The dash indicators reflect the change from 4H to 4L, but The TOD is not kicking in in 4H and in 4L only my back tires spin. This is my first 4WD vehicle and I have absolutely no idea what to check. I am going to swap Dex III fluid in the transfer case this weekend, but I seriously doubt I'm lucky enough for that to fix the problem. At least I will be able to see if there are any metal shavings in the drained fluid. Anybody have any suggestions as to what else I can check? This is my DD and I have to have 4WD here. I love the hell outta this vehicle and I apperently haven't even been able to feel the full potential of it since I have likely been sold a VX lemon edition.

BTW, TOD shows the 85/15% split when in 4H, but there is no way that is actually happening (not sure if that helps). Just hoping I don't need a new T-case because there is no chance I can afford to replace it.

[Triathlete]

Previous owner didn't by chance install manual hubs up front did he?
If not, then unfortunately the fluid change is not going to help :(

[bartmanS4]

+1 on the hubs.

Especially since it's in both 4H and 4L. Odd thing is you don't mention any error light on the TOD display. This would indicate the TOD doesn't know there is a problem. Even if it doesn't have locking hubs I would still suspect an issue in the hubs. If it is the TC you can get a Trooper TOD one at a reasonable price.

[iyafyl]

Thanks fellas. I wish it did have locking hubs. Then I would feel really stupid for not checking but relieved that this was the problem. There is no error light at all on the TOD display. If it doesn't have locking hubs, then what else with the hubs could be causing it bartman? I'm asking because I have very limited experience with 4WD vehicles. I'm pretty mechanically inclined, but I'm working in a new field for me here. A blizzard knocked out my home internet, so I'm having a hell of a time finding answers searching on my mobile, so I appreciate your responses.

[bartmanS4]

Well, what I'm thinking on may be a long shot is that the hubs were disassembled and intentionally left parts out to make them free wheel. It would seem that the problem is between the TOD speed sensor and the front wheels. The TOD computer is sending power forward and getting feedback that they are turning. Is there a front prop shaft or has it been removed? That could be an easy fix too until you find out why it was removed that is.

[bartmanS4]

Looks like your VX was previously owned by a member here named JNUVX. Didn't see anything that he posted related to the problem you're have though.

[PK]

Set the VX up on a flat surface, with the rear wheels chocked well, hand brake on, transmission in neutral.
Jack up one front wheel at a time.
Try and spin the wheel, and check if the CV joint is turning. (if you look inside the wheel well, you will see the CV shaft and boots coming out of the wheel hub and heading inboard to the diff carrier. The whole shaft and both boots should turn.) If the CV shaft turns, the hub is most likely fine. If it doesn't turn, and the wheel does, then the hub has a problem.
Check each side, as you only need one faulty side to give no front wheel drive.

While you are doing the above, and turning the wheel, also check that the front driveshaft is turning between the transfer case and the front diff. That will tell you if the diff is at least together.

Give the front driveshaft a good shake at each end. There should be no movement. Anything over 1mm (or 1/16") is a problem.
Twist the front driveshaft. A bit of play is normal - say 3mm or 1/8".

Check for noises while driving.
Also check noises by walking along side the car while someone else is driving.

All of the above will eliminate any catastrophic failure of the front wheel drive system.
That then leaves the transfer case as the problem, but unlikely if you are not getting a "Check" TOD light.

Why are you going to change the transfer case oil??
If you had a reason to do that before this became apparent, let us know the reason. It might help us help you.

PK

[LittleBeast]

I lost front wheel drive when one of my CV joints blew apart. The inner cage that holds the balls in place in the CV cracked and one or a couple of the ball bearings fell out and that was enough to loose front wheel drive for me. I would visually inspect the CV boots and (with gloves on) squeeze and pinch the boots to make sure there are no loose parts tossing around inside the boots.

I doubt seriously you have transfer case problems, it would not be the first time, but actually transfer case problems are rare on the VX.

[evillecutter]

I doubt seriously you have transfer case problems, it would not be the first time, but actually transfer case problems are rare on the VX.

although i had to have mine rebuilt the guys doing the work were very informative seeing as it was a specialty driveline shop - they told me that borg warner makes some of the best tcases on the planet and they barely see them on anything other than extremely heavy duty trucks - and even then they rarely have any problems

[pbkid]

I bet ryan (littlebeast) hit the nail on the head.

first off, if you are in 4H and step on it on slick roads, do the lights on the TOD on the dash light up like a x-mas tree?? if not, you have t-case/sensor issues. If the TOD senses rear wheel spin it should put the power up front right way, if it isn't, you have bigger issues. If it IS, then you are probably in luck.
If you have lights changing on the TOD on slick, next I would follow Ryan's suggestion and check the CV axles. If one of them is busted inside, neither front wheel will turn because we have open diff's in the front on the VX.

[iyafyl]

Thanks everybody!! I will give all these a shot this weekend, which starts on Sunday for me. No, pbkid, the TOD display does not go nuts when I gun it with wheel slippage. Since I bought it, it only reflects the 85/15% split after hitting maybe 10 mph, or gassing it enough to get some decent wheel slippage. So, to me it seemed like the system knows there is slippage, but there is a breakdown somewhere between the speed sensor and the hub. I have a lot of things to look over this weekend and hopefully I find the week link. I have a lot better chance now thanks to all the suggestions.

I'll say this though, if it's the T-case I'm hosed because there is no way I can raise the funds to replace it right now. Sadly, it seems I haven't been able to enjoy a VX even though I now own one and have wanted one for over a decade. And what a horrible time for this to happen...blizzard week in Juneau

[LittleBeast]

I wouldn't give up or be too pessimistic even if it is worse case (transfer case). I found a spare used one through this site for cheap. All I needed was the flange to have a custom double Cardin driveshaft made from High Angle Driveline, but plan on keeping the spare t-case as a spare. Good used t-cases should be available somewhere around the country, keep us updated, I hope it turns up not too bad to resolve.

[iyafyl]

Here's what I was able to check so far. I squeezed the CV boots like I was a teenager getting to second base for the first time and felt nothing out of the norm (no loose part in there). I did as PK advised and jacked up one tire at a time. I turned each tire and saw the CV axle turning on each one and also each one turning the front drive shaft. I shook and twisted the front drive shaft by hand and got almost no movement (so that's good too). While I was under there, I also his the U-joint and other grease points. The only thing I wasn't able to do was drain and refil the T-case fluid. I don't have a pump or anything handy to gravity fill it. Later tonight I am going to try filling it with a squeezeball pump from the gas line on an outboard (yes, of course I will make sure it's dry first) and see how that goes. Any other ideas?

[Scott Larson]

Possibly a broken chain or a fried clutchpack in the transfer case, I'm gonna go with a toasted clutchpack as you seem to have some torque applied to the front axles, hence the TOD lights showing output...:_confused
Ya know, it is possible that if someone filled the transfer case with hypoid gear oil or anything but the recommended ATF that the clutchpack is slipping that badly. In which case, a change to the proper fluid could correct the problem...wouldn't that be nice!! Definitely worth a shot...

[iyafyl]

Well, this is unexpected and a little embarrassing. It seems that hitting those grease points fixed the problem. I swore it was only a couple of months ago that I hit those last, but after thinking about it, I remember sweating my butt off while doing it...so it had to be July or August. Holy moly am I glad that worked out. I must have read 20 times or more how important it is to grease those points, and baby let me tell you....Imma believer now. Thanks everybody for the guidance. I maintenanced about 5 other items while I was down there thanks to your suggestions and now I'm headed up to the local ski lodge to run up a 35 degree incline at about 60mph in 36 inches of snow....BECAUSE I CAN!!! :dan_ban:

[Scott Larson]

Not sure how that did the trick but hey, congratulations and best of luck in the future. Now, go hit the snow!!! :_snowplow :rotate: :_steering :_beer:

[evillecutter]

back in action - aaaaah yeah! ($240 worth of puddin)

[iyafyl]

I wasn't as lucky as I thought. Next day no more 4WD. I tried various ways to replicate what I may have done to get it working that one day, and here is what I found. If I jack up the front tires one at a time and rotate the wheels back a forth until they stop, then I get 4Wd for a while. I'm at a total loss now. Could that be a sensor that isn't registering or stops registering because it is so friggen cold outside, until I rotate the wheels a bit? This is sooooooo frustrating. Especially when I just got to experience how awesome this vehicle is when working properly and then lost it again the next day.

[Scott Larson]

There is an electric clutch deep within the bowels of your TOD transfer case. My guess is that it is either not receiving the proper signals from the assorted sensors and/or computer module that govern it, or it has an electrical or mechanical fault. The fact that you do not have any trouble codes or lights tells me that the fault is mechanical. Just my two cents, no change necessary...

[Benny]

Anymore updates or results of a fix. I am having similar problems and hope to get some info and advise for repair.