Engine Replacement - Axiom vs. 6VE1

[MSHardeman]

It looks like both people who have done the Axiom engine swap are no longer around here (iamironman and HMILLER). I've read all of the threads by iamironman and HMILLER regarding their engine swaps, and it looks pretty straight forward. Almost a direct plug and play, just need to swap the Axiom intake for the VehiCROSS intake and the engine should plug right into our transmission and the VX ECU should be able to control it.

My big question to anyone who has researched this, or who has an opinion (and who doesn't) is; what is the advantage of going to the Axiom engine?

It sounds like the Axiom had more horse power, but that was mostly due to the intake system on it. By going back to the VX intake it sounds like the engine gets back down to our stock horse power (maybe just a little more). I also read one of the posts (think it was Ashley (vt maverick)) that said that the Axiom that they owned ate oil too.

I like the idea of using a low milage Axiom motor, but it's still used and you don't know what problems you might be inheriting. Going with a re-built motor that uses new rings, pistons, connecting rods, etc. might be a safer way to go.

Decisions, decisions.....

[VXorado]

My big question to anyone who has researched this, or who has an opinion (and who doesn't) is; what is the advantage of going to the Axiom engine?

It sounds like the Axiom had more horse power, but that was mostly due to the intake system on it. By going back to the VX intake it sounds like the engine gets back down to our stock horse power (maybe just a little more)

From my understanding, the 20 HP increase is the only advantage. The direct injection allows the Axiom engine to have a higher compression ratio over the 6VE1.

[Etfren]

On the oil consumption issue, I have a feeling it is probably as hit or miss with Axiom engines as it is with our older ones. I will say though, the Axiom motor in my VX doesn't consume any at all.

[MSHardeman]

Eric, didn't realize that you had an Axiom too. So that makes three successful transplants that I know of. I know you bought the VX as it is now, but did you compare the engine to any of the VX's while you were out in Moab? I'm guessing that it looks the same, especially with the VX intake on it.

[MSHardeman]

From my understanding, the 20 HP increase is the only advantage. The direct injection allows the Axiom engine to have a higher compression ratio over the 6VE1.

Jon, my understanding is that when we have to replace the Axiom direct injection intake with the VX's stock intake, in order to get the VX ECU to work correctly without rewireing the entire VX, we lose that 20 HP increase.

I SO want to do an Axiom engine swap, but if it really doesn't gain me anything it looks like a rebuilt 6VE1 may be the best way to go.

[Gussie2000]

Keep in mind that the direct injection was only availavle for the 2004 axiom,any older axiom doesn't come with the direct injection.

The 2004 Axiom comes with a 250hp stock engine while the 2002-03 axiom comes with a 235hp

The increased in the HP for the 2002-03 axiom was its electronic throotle system,better intake plemum and better cylinder heads + few other improvemets.

The 2004 axiom comes with all the above mentioned improvements + the direct injection feature.

According to iam ironman you can swap an axiom long block engine that comes with 'X' as the 8th digit on the VIN

[vt_maverick]

I thought I read in those threads that the 04 DI engine was a no go, that you had to use a 2002 or 2003 engine? If you go to the 02/03 engine you get 15 extra HP and 0 extra torque. My Axiom engine burns oil as bad or worse than my VX so what's the point? Personally I'd either go with a rebuilt VX engine or upgrade to something completely different with significant advantages, like say the Isuzu diesel for big MPG improvement or a V8 / turbo Ecotec for big HP. All depends on your budget and how loyal you are to the stock configuration.

In summary I would say "go big or go stock." ;)

[MSHardeman]

Ash, I seem to remember reading the same thing: that you have to stick to an '02-'03 engine with "X" as the eighth number in the VIN. If the Axiom's have the same possiblilty of oil buring as the VX engines, for just a couple of more horsepower and no torque gains, then the best bet seems to be going with a re-built VX engine. All new parts, usually some kind of warranty, and a definite plug and play application.

It would be great to do some kind of V8 or diesel swap, but she's my daily driver so as soon as she goes under the wrench I am out of a car until she's fixed. With that in mind, and the fact that I don't have the mechanical know-how to do it myself or the funds to pay a mechanic to figure out how to shove any other engine in there, I'll probably go the re-built route.

That'll be my new catch phrase: "GO STOCK"

[VXorado]

That'll be my new catch phrase: "GO STOCK"

Probably a good plan. I've heard Rotella 5w-40 diesel grade engine oil can prevent oil consumption. It's very high in detergent and can keep the piston rings from clogging. Might be a good idea if you end up with a rebuilt 6VE1. :_confused

[MSHardeman]

I am hoping that with a rebuilt 6VE1 the oil buring problem will be taken care of. If they bore out the cylinder a bit and use new rings and pistons, I would think that that would solve the oil issue, but I guess I'll find out soon.

[Gizmo42]

The big issue with the older 6VD1 and 6VE1 is they only used 2 or 3 oil drain holes in the pistons and they were smaller then on most engines so they plugged easily. The upgraded pistons which you should get with a rebuild have 6 holes in them. This is according to Jerry Lemond.

Also according to him, the 3.5 DI cannot be swapped for the non DI engines. It is a completely different animal.

[Gussie2000]

x2 with gizmo.

I talked with my mech and he say the same tale,only the long block can be use,but with the 8th digit marked a "X" on the VIN.

The reason the engine has to be one with this digit is because the other axiom engines came with a different transmission.

[MSHardeman]

Giz and Gus, the oil drain hole issue is one that I have heard before, and them plugging up is one of the reasons why some of these engines grenade themselves at a relatively young age. I don't think mine is an oil starvation issue, though the engine has always used a LOT of oil (3/4 of a quart of oil every 300-350 miles). I've always stayed on top of it and she's run like a champ up until now. From the research I have done I believe that there is something going on with the piston, rings, or cylinder itself. Maybe that is an oil drain hole issue though.:_confused Leak down test on Friday will tell a little bit more about what's going on.

I had also heard the same things about the Axiom engines. The direct injection engine won't fit in our VX's due to them using a different transmission, and the Axiom engine's that would fit in our VX's came from and '02-'03 Axiom with an "X" as the eighth digit in the VIN. I think the "X" denoted the four wheel/all wheel drive option in the Axiom which meant it was basically using our transmission and transfer case.

If a rebuilt engine will solve the oil burning issue that would be great. Dave, do you have any contact information for Jerry Lemond? I've heard of this fabled Isuzu guru, and it would be great to talk to/ email with him to get his opinion on engine re-builders, engine options, things to look out for, etc.

[Gussie2000]

Giz and Gus, the oil drain hole issue is one that I have heard before, and them plugging up is one of the reasons why some of these engines grenade themselves at a relatively young age. I don't think mine is an oil starvation issue, though the engine has always used a LOT of oil (3/4 of a quart of oil every 300-350 miles). I've always stayed on top of it and she's run like a champ up until now. From the research I have done I believe that there is something going on with the piston, rings, or cylinder itself. Maybe that is an oil drain hole issue though.:_confused Leak down test on Friday will tell a little bit more about what's going on.

I had also heard the same things about the Axiom engines. The direct injection engine won't fit in our VX's due to them using a different transmission, and the Axiom engine's that would fit in our VX's came from and '02-'03 Axiom with an "X" as the eighth digit in the VIN. I think the "X" denoted the four wheel/all wheel drive option in the Axiom which meant it was basically using our transmission and transfer case.

If a rebuilt engine will solve the oil burning issue that would be great. Dave, do you have any contact information for Jerry Lemond? I've heard of this fabled Isuzu guru, and it would be great to talk to/ email with him to get his opinion on engine re-builders, engine options, things to look out for, etc.

You may want to check planetisuzu and get more info/details in regards of the rebuild.

I heard few times that after rebuild the oil issue is no longer a fact,but that may vary depending on which rebuild kit and mechanic do the job

[Gizmo42]

you can either pm Jerry on planetisuzoo or email him at jlemond at bellsouth dot net

[Etfren]

Eric, didn't realize that you had an Axiom too. So that makes three successful transplants that I know of. I know you bought the VX as it is now, but did you compare the engine to any of the VX's while you were out in Moab? I'm guessing that it looks the same, especially with the VX intake on it.

Yup, my black VX has an Axiom motor in it, and eventually my green one will too. I've got an 02 Axiom motor sitting in the garage waiting to go in, just waiting for a handful of things to happen before I can pull the old motor out and get to swapping it. I'd really like to get a full write up written once its done to help sort out exactly what it takes and to streamline the process for everyone else and help make decisions like this easier for others, but for right now I have to play the waiting game with other projects coming first.

As far as noticing any differences between mine and other VX engine bays, not really. Mine's a lot dirtier than most, but thats to be expected. :)

Sounds like to me a rebuilt VX motor is the best option as far as quick plug and play to minimize downtime and worry of reliability compared with an un-rebuilt used motor or taking the time to pull and rebuild yours.

[thelemur]

I would love to hear more about this as I'm beginning a swap as soon as I can find a suitable donor, thanks in advance!