Timing Belt Life

[blacksambo]

Just changed my timing belt for the first time....at 138K. It didn't look like it would have snapped, but maybe skipped a notch sometime soon. At any rate, 138K says alot about Isuzu OEM parts quality.

[circmand]

you got lucky. They dont always show wear and between the use and the high temps under a hood its better to be safer than sorry. I would suggest 215,000 for the next one or 7 years

[blacksambo]

Thank you for that perspective and advice. We'll change my wife's '99 exactly at the factory recommended 100K.

[Triathlete]

Mine has 140,000+ on it....yeah, I know, gotta change it some time soon! :)

Pretty sure I will get to it before the 215,000 mark! :)~

[rsteinmetz70112]

At least neglecting it won't wreck the engine, like on some engines.

[blacksambo]

Yeah, but if you breakdown out in the desert, the tow bill and motel stay while they fix it will wreck your wallet and your marrige, I'll bet.

[blacksambo]

I've heard of one guy making 145k on the original belt, but that's the record I think?

[Triathlete]

Still on the original water pump too...no leaks ands bearings still sound good.

[blacksambo]

Mine is the original water pump at 138K. And no leaks so we'll go another round, so to speak.

[Kona-Vs]

What's the deal about time ? Some of our VXs have low mileage but the 99s are getting 11+ years on the timing belts. Do they need to be changed ?

[blacksambo]

My Isuzu trained master technician says if it's not leaking leave it alone (He's said that for years, my wife's first '99 he did the belt at 100K , and said leave the pump alone. It's still running strong in Moscow. I guess if it's not broken don't fix it sort of mentality. ( By the way this guy has all sorts of special Vehicross training from way back when, he's got a wal full of Isuzu certificates.)

[Gizmo42]

On the 3.2 and 3.5s the water pump or tensioner usually fails before the belt does. Mine all got changed at 88k miles because the guy I bought it from did all that plus new clutch and windshield before selling it (the reason I bought it even though I didnt want black).


What's the deal about time ? Some of our VXs have low mileage but the 99s are getting 11+ years on the timing belts. Do they need to be changed ?

Rubber does break down and dry out over time so it may not last as long as far as miles. But the biggest enemy to rubber is UV which isnt an issue with t-belts. Can probably go another 11 years lol.

I wouldnt change the t-belt without changing the water pump. I just dont like doing work twice. If I just did the belt, the pump would fail on me 2 weeks later.

[blacksambo]

Like I said... if it ain't broke don't fix it. It's just that simple. And this guy I work with you can bet your bottom dollar on.

[deermagnet]

Like I said... if it ain't broke don't fix it.
So why doesn't that apply to the timing belt? :p

You get the timing belt changed when it's working fine as preventive maintenance, before it breaks. The same principle applies to the water pump 'cuz it's so difficult to get to. You have to dig deep to get to the water pump behind the timing belt. As long as you're right there anyway, it'll take just a few minutes and not much money to change the water pump.

If your water pump fails soon, it'll be such a waste to have to remove the timing belt again. You may say, "the water pump will probably last for years longer". You could say the same thing about the original timing belt. If you decide to do preventive maintenance on one part, why neglect the other?

A broken timing belt is rare. A water pump problem is much more common. The water pump is by far the weaker part. If you're only gonna change one of those parts and not the other, I'd change the water pump. Change 'em both and be done with it. :_confused

Mark Griffin

[blacksambo]

Think about it this way...everything around the t-belt is worn after 138K. That means the cam gears etc. So the most pliable or flexible item is the rubber belt. To break in other new metal/hard items carries an inherent risk of inbalance or noise in the whole chain of action. They run the risk of becoming minimally dissimilar components near term which causes extra pressure on the old items and are thus more prone to causing failure. Keep everything the same as much as possible...that's the best scenario.

[Ldub]

So why doesn't that apply to the timing belt? :p

You get the timing belt changed when it's working fine as preventive maintenance, before it breaks. The same principle applies to the water pump 'cuz it's so difficult to get to. You have to dig deep to get to the water pump behind the timing belt. As long as you're right there anyway, it'll take just a few minutes and not much money to change the water pump.

If your water pump fails soon, it'll be such a waste to have to remove the timing belt again. You may say, "the water pump will probably last for years longer". You could say the same thing about the original timing belt. If you decide to do preventive maintenance on one part, why neglect the other?

A broken timing belt is rare. A water pump problem is much more common. The water pump is by far the weaker part. If you're only gonna change one of those parts and not the other, I'd change the water pump. Change 'em both and be done with it. :_confused

Mark Griffin


Think about it this way...everything around the t-belt is worn after 138K. That means the cam gears etc. So the most pliable or flexible item is the rubber belt. To break in other new metal/hard items carries an inherent risk of inbalance or noise in the whole chain of action. They run the risk of becoming minimally dissimilar components near term which causes extra pressure on the old items and are thus more prone to causing failure. Keep everything the same as much as possible...that's the best scenario.

I now understand this (http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?threadid=20680)...:yesgray:

To each his own gents, IMO, if I'm already in up to my elbows...you know I'm gonna replace everything in sight...:_wrench:

So, by the logic given, you wouldn't put on a new tensioner with a new timing belt?

[blacksambo]

Precisely. It's a new item amongst old items. The harmony will never be the same. That said, unless you replace everything, leave well enough alone. You're just asking for trouble. And...about the incidence of water pump failures...yes, I've heard that the aftermarket GTB brand pumps have failed, prematurely. I don't know about the OEM types?

[blacksambo]

I'll add to that that my technician has done hundreds of Troopers/VX's etc with no real problems using his approach.

[Gizmo42]

The problem with that logic is that I have heard of NO t-belts breaking on a 3.2 or 3.5 even with 150k miles on them. I have, however known of MANY water pumps and tensioners failing by that time. These are the original OEMs, not replacements. So, you should be replacing the water pump and tensioner as maintenance and using the same belt.


Precisely. It's a new item amongst old items. The harmony will never be the same. That said, unless you replace everything, leave well enough alone. You're just asking for trouble.

That just makes NO sense at all. Dont do any preventative maintenance, just wait till something breaks then replace the vehicle?

[Ldub]

So, by the logic given, you wouldn't put on a new tensioner with a new timing belt?


Precisely. It's a new item amongst old items. The harmony will never be the same.

Sorry but, no sale...:confused:

The tensioner is a pressurized cylinder, applying tension to the NEW belt, by way of a roller. The new belt would be the only part in the equation that the new tensioner would touch.

Harmony?...this is mechanix we're speaking of, not mystical religion, voodoo, or feng shui...:_wrench:

[blacksambo]

New belt is tighter/grippier and stouter/stiffer than the old belt. It's also more angular in the teeth verus a worn belt (they're more rounded). It's also shorter. It will put new pressure against the old components which they haven't had to deal with before in the whole chain of timing and cooling. If you change the cooling gearing surface and the tensioner roller surface you've got new traction points/surfaces versus old traction at older points in the chain. This direct dissonant bias is now tranmitted to the the cam shafts drive, and their gearing and bearing surfaces, that by now have most certainly degraded. It's disharmonius at best, it' s the new choir trying to sing with the barbershop quartet of old sort of thing. This guy I work with is an ace Ferrari/ Lambo/ Porsche mechanic he wouldn't steer his customers wrong.

Regarding belts breaking or also skipping out of position. If you've just followed this web site, for even a few years, you learn of original belts breaking/skipping all over the place and the horror stories of people following the wrong procedure to get things lined up again only to have the engine fail again....you never hear any horror stories coming from a water pump failure, the belt keeps its position on the cam shafts and it's a more straight forward fix, as a result.

[Ebenezr]

While you all are on this subject I have a question. I have 128000 miles and several months ago entertained the idea of changing my timing belt. I peeled the plastic cover back and when I noticed the belt was a clear translucent nylon - I quit. I assumed that it was not a stock belt and that a previous owner had placed this belt on. Am I right? Isn't the stock belt black???

[blacksambo]

Yes, black. And the model is called an Isuzu Bando STS. Love know more about the clear belt, though?

[Ldub]

New belt is tighter/grippier and stouter/stiffer than the old belt. It's also more angular in the teeth verus a worn belt (they're more rounded). It's also shorter. It will put new pressure against the old components which they haven't had to deal with before in the whole chain of timing and cooling. If you change the cooling gearing surface and the tensioner roller surface you've got new traction points/surfaces versus old traction at older points in the chain. This direct dissonant bias is now tranmitted to the the cam shafts drive, and their gearing and bearing surfaces, that by now have most certainly degraded. It's disharmonius at best, it' s the new choir trying to sing with the barbershop quartet of old sort of thing. This guy I work with is an ace Ferrari/ Lambo/ Porsche mechanic he wouldn't steer his customers wrong.

So using that logic, if the water pump or timing belt fails, you need new cams?
Or maybe even new heads?

:_thinking.:_thinking.:_thinking

[Triathlete]

Sounds to me like instead of changing your timing belt you should just put a whole new drive train in to keep everything in harmony! Oh wait, then the axles will not be in harmony...guess I need to just get a new vehicle. :)

[blacksambo]

In abosolute theory you are right, but in this instance we'll have to settle on as little intervention as possible to keep things singing along as best they can given their respective ages. Less change is more when it comes to governing the longterm health of the timing function.

[circmand]

Thats why tires have a date on them. At 5 years old they break down just by sitting in the warehouse. So a belt spinning around at high RPMs and in the heat under an engine is even more likely to fail. Sure you may get 200,000 miles out of it but there are a lot of VX engines out there that failed and not all from oil. As far as not broke dont fix do you wait till a tire blows before you replace it?

[Hades]

Anybody Know if there's a way to get the plastic covers off without removing everything? I know the normal condition interval is 100,000 miles (though I thought belts were 60-75 in all other cars), I'm at 144k with no prior knowledge of it being done and still unsure of the posts that I read if this is an interference engine or not. If I could get under and feel the ribbing it would be nice to know before removing everything only to find its been done recently!

[VXCanada]

I'm about to do mine. 102k miles. Unsure if it was done before as I don't have any maintenance history so it will be done as a precaution.

Waiting until the timing belt brakes would result in a tow and depending on the engine design may cause bent valves, and other internal damage. Unsure if its an inference engine design or not. If its not then you can potentially wait until it goes but then you're stuck and getting a tow....

T.

[Triathlete]

Our engines are non interference. I changed mine at 150k. It was noticeably stretched at that point (about 1/2 an inch). So while they may not break till long after the recommended change interval it could potentially lead to timing issues eventually.

[JayDallas]

I change my at 152k

[Mile High VX]

Did mine at 115K.

[navistar]

2001 - 175,000 miles - original timing belt and water pump. Record?

[JoFotoz]

1999...original timing belt........but only 33k miles.

The thing is.... whats more important..age or miles?

I carry a spare with me on long trips just in case...
...but have been wondering if shear age warrants
doing it anyway.

?????

Jo

[circmand]

1999...original timing belt........but only 33k miles.

The thing is.... whats more important..age or miles?

I carry a spare with me on long trips just in case...
...but have been wondering if shear age warrants
doing it anyway.

?????

Jo

It is a combination. I did mine at 75,000 but at 10 years. I had read somewhere that that was the life span on the belts even if they did not have the miles. Not sure where I read it though.

[Stephen Biko]

Yes, the belt is rubber so it ages even if it isn't used.
Schedule is 75K miles or 6 years.
I know a fellow VX owner who's belt broke at 7 years and only ~35K miles, he had to get his engine replaced.
Don't chance it.

[PK]

Yes, the belt is rubber so it ages even if it isn't used.
Schedule is 75K miles or 6 years.
I know a fellow VX owner who's belt broke at 7 years and only ~35K miles, he had to get his engine replaced.
Don't chance it.

Why did he have to replace the engine??

Our engines are non-interference. If the timing belt breaks, you only need a new belt kit and the correct procedure to re-time the engine.

Sounds like your mate had a rip-off mechanic.

PK

[JayDallas]

It happened to me, my timing belt broke and following the instructions in this forum I was able to install and re-time the engine my self. It's easier than I expected.

[WillyLin]

I am doing timing belt on my 93 trooper, had it done at dealership at 120k, now 210k. belt looks normal, cant find any hair crack or any major wear. putting acdelco belt on. water pump was original I believe (210k) very little rust.( didn't had water pump done at 120k in 2006)

[mrtew]

How much does it cost to have a mechanic replace the belt and water pump. My VX is now 16 years old with 130,000 miles and I'm getting worried that I should be changing them but obviously I'm more the type to leave sleeping dogs lie and hope for the best! Unless it's just a couple hundred dollars then maybe I'll have it done today!

[CatFish]

The timing belt, tensioner, rollers, water pump and intake gaskets are grouped together on my invoice but it will give you an idea of what should cost. My guy only charges me for the time it takes him so it may cost more depending on who you go to or if you do the work your self. $280 labor and $276 in parts but this includes more than just the timing belt and water pump.
http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad44/RedChristine/VX/Parts%20and%20Mods/Shop%20bill%205-6-16.jpg (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/RedChristine/media/VX/Parts%20and%20Mods/Shop%20bill%205-6-16.jpg.html)

[mrtew]

Thanks, that doesn't seem as bad as I feared it would be! Maybe I'll do it after all!

[Nikad92397]

I liked these instructional videos



https://youtu.be/seW4HWkwb3Y

https://youtu.be/4st6CqDGmoc

[CatFish]

Thanks, that doesn't seem as bad as I feared it would be! Maybe I'll do it after all!

If you can do it yourself that would be the cheapest if not a good shop could do the timing belt and water pump for $450-$600. Even though the VX has a non-interference engine I think it is best to replace it because rubber ages and gets brittle and can stretch, I do not know how that would effect the engine or other components but I am one of those people that does not wait until my VX breaks down to fix stuff. I am proactive and do maintenance to all vehicles regularly. With that said I have gotten 200K plus out of many vehicles mostly Isuzus so I will continue to fix and replace stuff that is not broken so it might last longer and not break down.

I love old cars and trucks the VX is my newest vehicle and I have done the math on yearly cost of ownership of my vehicles. What I found was, if a new car payment is say $300-$400 a month and insurance is $100-$200 that is $400-$600 per month, so you could spend $4,800-$7,200 per year for a new car and it still could break down. My logic is I can own cool old cars and spend $3,000 per year on maintenance and repairs and still come out way ahead, but I was curious what I was spending per year and since I keep all my receipts I did the math and found I spend on average $2,500 per year including insurance, when I take the purchase price and what I spent on the vehicle before I sold it. My 96 Trooper was only $2,000 per year so if you look at it this way owning a older used car or truck is a win, at least it is to me.

[MSHardeman]

Bart (nfpgasmask) did an incredible write-up on how to replace the timing belt. I used the write-up to replace my timing belt and everything went off without a hitch. I can search around here for the write-up and post it if I can find it. If not, I may have it saved on my computer at home, in which case I will upload it.

[pbuddha]

Are you folks going OEM with everything? I presume not at that price. My shop's quoting over $1200! Thinking it makes sense to save $500 and just go non-OEM but still made in Japan.