Alleged ABS unit FIX described

[VX KAT]

This caught my eye...a guy in Florida selling his 2000 Ironman on ebay wrote this in his description about how he FIXED HIS ABS UNIT:


IM RELISTING MAINLY TO INFORM VEHICROSS OWNERS THAT HAVE AN ABS LIGHT ON HOW I FIXED MINE FOR FREE.GO TO THE ABS UNIT LEFT CORNER UNDER THE HOOD. REMOVE 4 SCREWS WITH A TORX TOOL. SEPERATE THE BLACK ABS MODULE FROM THE METAL PUMP. ONE SCREW IS HARD TO GET TO SO LEAVE IT AND GENTLY SEPERATE THE MODULE AWAY FROM THE METAL HOUSING. SPRAY IN THROTTLE BODY CLEANER IN ALL THE CHAMBERS YOU WILL SEE USING THE NARROW RED TUBE SUPPLIED.SPRAY IN WELL.DONT GET IT ON THE OUTER PAINT.LET THE UNIT DRY FOR A HOUR OR SO AND REPLACE THE SCREWS. ABS LIGHT WILL GO OFF. USE THE BRAKES RIGHT AWAY ON A GRASSY OR SANDY SURFACE TO ACTIVATE PUMP. IT WORKED FOR ME HOPE IT WORKS FOR YOU.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290577333299+&viewitem=&clk_rvr_id=241538495693#ht_500wt_1182

Sounds easy enough to try.....who's goin' to give it a try?

[rowhard]

This caught my eye...a guy in Florida selling his 2000 Ironman on ebay wrote this in his description about how he FIXED HIS ABS UNIT:

IM RELISTING MAINLY TO INFORM VEHICROSS OWNERS THAT HAVE AN ABS LIGHT ON HOW I FIXED MINE FOR FREE.GO TO THE ABS UNIT LEFT CORNER UNDER THE HOOD. REMOVE 4 SCREWS WITH A TORX TOOL. SEPERATE THE BLACK ABS MODULE FROM THE METAL PUMP. ONE SCREW IS HARD TO GET TO SO LEAVE IT AND GENTLY SEPERATE THE MODULE AWAY FROM THE METAL HOUSING. SPRAY IN THROTTLE BODY CLEANER IN ALL THE CHAMBERS YOU WILL SEE USING THE NARROW RED TUBE SUPPLIED.SPRAY IN WELL.DONT GET IT ON THE OUTER PAINT.LET THE UNIT DRY FOR A HOUR OR SO AND REPLACE THE SCREWS. ABS LIGHT WILL GO OFF. USE THE BRAKES RIGHT AWAY ON A GRASSY OR SANDY SURFACE TO ACTIVATE PUMP. IT WORKED FOR ME HOPE IT WORKS FOR YOU.http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290577333299+&viewitem=&clk_rvr_id=241538495693#ht_500wt_1182

Sounds easy enough to try.....who's goin' to give it a try?

I would, once I confirmed the cleaner doesn't react with the brake fluid:confused:

[mdwyer]

I would, once I confirmed the cleaner doesn't react with the brake fluid:confused:

I'm pretty sure that the black part and the silver parts are sealed from each other. I was under the impression that the black part was just coils and electronics. I didn't think there were any moving parts in the black part, and no exposed parts on the silver part. But then, that just begs the question of how this guy's 'fix' did anything.

I think he just lucked out and the lights will be back on in a few days.

[Hotsauce]

The black part is a pack of solenoids, wound coils of wire the act on the ABS pistons. The failure is one of the coils burns out or a wire breaks. You can determine this with a DVM. I've never opened the coils themselves, it may be possible to rewind them.

John C.

[VX KAT]

The black part is a pack of solenoids, wound coils of wire the act on the ABS pistons. The failure is one of the coils burns out or a wire breaks. You can determine this with a DVM. I've never opened the coils themselves, it may be possible to rewind them.

John C.

but where's these "chambers" he's talking about? Are they on the face of black part, only visible once it's separated from the silver part? :_thinking

THANK YOU ERIC, SNAGGED THIS PIC FROM YOUR GALLERY:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/brakes_078.jpg

[rsteinmetz70112]

I suppose it's possible the connection, solenoids or coils were corroded, stuck or shorted and the process cleaned them enough to start working again.

[Knigh7s]

Here is a thread (http://vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=11716) where Dino took his apart.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/ABS_control_unit_inside.jpg

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/ABS_valve_block.jpg

[VX KAT]

Sounds like these are the "chambers" that guy on ebay was referring to?

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/ABS_control_unit_inside.jpg

[eternal21]

Anyone done anything yet? If not, I'm going to try this tonight.

[JAMAS]

Anyone done anything yet? If not, I'm going to try this tonight.

Can't wait to hear your results.

[handeeman]

I would try this, but if it worked they would kick me out of the club.
"Lights on"-"Lights off"

[Knigh7s]

My ABS light has been going on and off all month... but now it is steady on... I'll try this tonight, but with electrical cleaner instead. I'll post results when done...

[eternal21]

I've had a steady on since I picked it up last year. I hope this works.

Seriously.

And HOTSAUCE, can you resize that pic, please? It's skewing the thread. Thanks :)

[rsteinmetz70112]

I wouldn't expect this to fix every unit. I wonder what ever made the guy try this fix?

[Scott Larson]

Can you say "DESPERATION"? :mado:

[Ldub]

I wouldn't expect this to fix every unit. I wonder what ever made the guy try this fix?

The insane price of a new one...:yesgray:

Thirteen MEELION dollars.

[PK]

Can you say "DESPERATION"? :mado:

I don't know - it is a logical thing to try now that I have seen one in half.

For the ABS to work, the coils have to pull (or push) those pistons to make the brakes modulate.
If the pistons are seized up due to lack of use, then spraying them with a penetrating oil of some sort is logical.
Only reservation I would have, is to make sure the spray used is compatible with the brake fluid, if any was to seek in that far.

Makes more sense to get out on a back road and hammer the brakes once a month now.

PK

[VX KAT]

Makes more sense to get out on a back road and hammer the brakes once a month now.

PK

Didn't Rowhard subscribe to that theory, and made sure he tested/used his monthly....but then his still failed too? John??

[VX KAT]

I wrote to the ebay guy (resk123) that wrote that today to ask him some more questions...awaiting reply.



I've also written to the ebay REBUILD guy 3 times now, with pics, sent these latest pics of the innerds,
and referenced the Isuzu Workshop Manual, page 5A-5 which says this:


General Service Precautions
The following are general precautions which should be
observed when servicing and diagnosing the Anti-lock
Brake System and/or other vehicle systems. Failure to
observe these precautions may result in Anti-lock Brake
System damage.


The EHCU and valve block connectors should never
be connected or disconnected with the ignition “ON” .

EHCU of the Anti-lock Brake System are not
separately serviceable and must be replaced as
assemblies. Do not disassemble any component
which is designated as non-serviceable in this
Section.
...here's his response today:


Hi Sue,
We have several thousand of this same type abs Module, This Design is used on many other Makes and Model Automobiles, We will have no problem rebuilding this abs Module.
Thank You
Don

Sounds promising.....

[rowhard]

Didn't Rowhard subscribe to that theory, and made sure he tested/used his monthly....but then his still failed too? John??

Yep, mine failed too, but heck, it doesn't work so trying this can't really hurt it. Just wondering about compatibility of the fluids:confused:

[atilla_the_fun]

Aren't both units sealed? The plastic electronics "brain+solenoid" component should not have any interaction with brake fluid. The brake fluid should be contained inside the valve box. if you look at the picture of the unit split into its two components, you don't notice any brake fluid at the interface of the two parts.

[circmand]

Needs More Cowbell

[ScottinMA]

Did anyone do this and tell us whether it worked?

[circmand]

Did anyone do this and tell us whether it worked?

Of course we havent heard anyone say they tried it and it didnt work either

[Knigh7s]

Oops, been busy, haven't had time to do it. Maybe this weekend...

[SlowPro48]

I haven't tried it - but I'll tell you anyway! NO it will not work.

Hose the connector down with contact cleaner if you want - maybe you'll get lucky and an oxidized pin or two was your only problem. I doubt it though - it's a good connector.

But DON'T waste your time spraying anything in the control module. You can't fix Fine German Engineering with a spray can!

I'm betting he just jarred the broken bus wires when he removed the EBCM to spray behind it, the ends made contact and the ABS light went out for a day or two. Or since the back of the EBCU is open - if his contact cleaner was Caig Deoxit and he shot enough in there to make it all the way back to the circuit board - and wash the protective gel off too - it would inhibit aluminum oxide formation in the break and the ABS light might stay off for several weeks - but the bottom line is - if he's got the classic Bosch 5 series problem, spraying contact cleaner will NOT fix it. AFAIK, you cannot fix a broken wire with anything that comes out of spray can. But hey, it IS possible to "fix" the problem with something that comes out of a tube! (silver epoxy) For a while anyway. The engine compartment gets pretty hot which is probably one reason the bus wires fail in the first place (aluminum wire with a sharp bend, lots of vibration and heat cycling.... can you say metal fatigue?) so even if you use a high temp silver epoxy like Duralco 124 it would probably break down eventually. They crow about it lasting 6 months at 650 degrees F though so it might last for many years at our 150-200 degree engine compartment temps.

Oh, and PK that was a good thought but there are no external moving parts on the hydraulic section so don't bother hosing it down with lube. I'm sure you can find something else to lube. If you want to see if those valves move freely use a magnet. The outlet valves (the flat topped ones) are normally closed so just put the magnet on top and you'll hear the click. The inlets (rounded top) are normally open so just put the magnet on the side and stroke it up and down that's right stroke it, stroke it real good - oh sorry - I don't know what came over me - it's like I was channeling someone else's thoughts - all of a sudden I had visions of roof racks dancing in my head and I started thinking about the shape of those inlet valves - they look like little.... ahhhh nevermind... anyway you should hear the valve clicking when you move the magnet up and down that's all I'm trying to say. But that doesn't tell you it's sealing properly - just moving as it should...

[leonml]

Well my light just went on when I pulled into a parkiing lot. Can't tell, but brakes seem fine. Gonna check the fuse in daylight. I wonder how hard it would be to just replace the whole ABS system with another from some other vehicle. Heck they are even putting corvette ABS in hot rods now.

[johnnyapollo]

You would need a 4WD system - it has double the valving for the sensors.

[leonml]

Well now my light was off in the morning, so I'm sure eventually it will be off and on for a while and then on for good.

To replace the whole abs wouldn't be too difficult I wouldn't think.

[rsteinmetz70112]

To replace the whole abs wouldn't be too difficult I wouldn't think.

But it does get Expensive$$

[SlowPro48]

You would need a 4WD system - it has double the valving for the sensors.

Wha? We've got the el cheapo three channel unit (Bosch 5.4). Corvettes got 4 channel.

leonml, by whole unit if you mean the hydraulic part as well as the EBCM then it would be a lot of effort for probably no reason. The hydraulics hardly ever fail. It's a pain to bleed if you replace the whole thing compared to just replacing the electronics which is almost always the problem. Unfortunately you can't just get any Bosch 5.4 EBCM and use it on a VX. The electronic brake control modules are vehicle specific. Sure it might fit, but the logic flashed into a Dodge Durango's Bosch 5.4 ABS module will be different than what's in our VXes because the brakes, vehicle dynamics, etc are totally different.

To deal with most electronics module failures is quick, relatively cheap and easy though - it's just six torx screws, two nuts and two connectors. Five minutes to take it off, a few more to put it in a box and ship it off to the rebuilder, five minutes to put it back on the vehicle, done. Takes less than 20 minutes and less than a hundred dollars out of your life and you don't have to see that ABS light any more. And then you can pull a trailer without sweating about how bad you're going to jackknife when that bluehair in the Riviera pulls out in front of you!

[Bob Barker]

If the issue is just some broken connectors, I may take it out and try to get a friend at work to rebuild them. He does work on circuit boards all day, this shouldn't be too hard to figure out.

[rsteinmetz70112]

Wha?

To deal with most electronics module failures is quick, relatively cheap and easy though - it's just six torx screws, two nuts and two connectors. Five minutes to take it off, a few more to put it in a box and ship it off to the rebuilder, five minutes to put it back on the vehicle, done. Takes less than 20 minutes and less than a hundred dollars out of your life and you don't have to see that ABS light any more.

Have you actually had an ABS unit for a VX rebuilt? As far as I know no one has yet. It has been discussed here many times and some say it can't be done, others say re-builders will do it but as far as I remember no one actually has had one done.

[blacksambo]

I wonder if SlowPro's magnet piston movement trick would help excersise the system without jaming on the breaks occassionally? ( I have these new-fangled Michelin LTX MS2's and they don't break loose unless it's glare ice practically.)

[SlowPro48]

Have you actually had an ABS unit for a VX rebuilt? As far as I know no one has yet. It has been discussed here many times and some say it can't be done, others say re-builders will do it but as far as I remember no one actually has had one done.

Yes - unfortunately my ABS control module had to be repaired. I think I jinxed it. Had been talking (OK it was more like bragging) to a friend about how the VX was 11 years old and had over 114K miles on it and not even a single light bulb had burned out yet. As usual, retribution was swift. The ABS light came on the next day just to prove ALL bulbs were still working.

So - the ABS control module was the first electrical item to go out on my VX, other than the CD changer, which suffered an untimely death at the hands of the kids. And the wimpy OEM speakers which got a little too much Boom, Boom, Pow one day - also a kid-related death. Hmmmm... maybe Sue should add a question to her "sellers list " regarding whether or not you haul children - they seem to significantly increase the level of entropy levied on a vehicle.... :sighy:

[SlowPro48]

I wonder if SlowPro's magnet piston movement trick would help excersise the system without jaming on the breaks occassionally? ( I have these new-fangled Michelin LTX MS2's and they don't break loose unless it's glare ice practically.)

Sambo, now why in the world would you want to do that? You'd take two hours trying to move those valves by hand through as many cycles and one good 2 second skid would achieve. Do they not have ANY dirt roads where you live? Lotsa rich people in NY so maybe all the roads are paved. Dude, are you a HIGH ROLLER? Confess!!!!

Anyway - you don't need to "exercise" (or exorcise!) the valves - they get they exercise every time you drive the VX as part of the ABS self test procedure. It's called BITE - Built In Test Equipment - each solenoid valve gets cycled as does the pump. Listen carefully and you may hear the pump. I can't after Monday night. They sell some righteous fireworks down in South Cackalac! Tried out some new artillery rounds - brand name was Black Mamba - use a fiberglass launch tube - the display is not as pretty as Excalibur which is what I normally get but great googly moogly they were shockingly loud. Gotta remember the earplugs next year...

OK there you go my friend - everything you need to derail this train.

[rsteinmetz70112]

Yes - unfortunately my ABS control module had to be repaired. I think I jinxed it. Had been talking (OK it was more like bragging) to a friend about how the VX was 11 years old and had over 114K miles on it and not even a single light bulb had burned out yet. As usual, retribution was swift. The ABS light came on the next day just to prove ALL bulbs were still working.

So - the ABS control module was the first electrical item to go out on my VX, other than the CD changer, which suffered an untimely death at the hands of the kids. And the wimpy OEM speakers which got a little too much Boom, Boom, Pow one day - also a kid-related death. Hmmmm... maybe Sue should add a question to her "sellers list " regarding whether or not you haul children - they seem to significantly increase the level of entropy levied on a vehicle.... :sighy:

It's great to know that they can be rebuilt and fixed at a reasonable cost.

[blacksambo]

Thanx for the tip, I'll hunt down a dirt road over in Vermont nextdoor.

[SlowPro48]

Ahhhh, not a dirt road in sight, eh? Dude, you ARE a High Roller! Stay away from Vermont though - too many cows. Even with fully exercised ABS you might T-Bone one. VXs don't look as good with bovine-shaped dents. So here's what you do: Since old money high rollers love brick driveways, and old brick is slick when it's wet, next time it rains go visit one of your Country Club buddies and drive about 35 mph up his long brick driveway - and then just when you see the whites in the butler's eyes - stand on the brakes!

[samneil2000]

Ahhhh, not a dirt road in sight, eh? Dude, you ARE a High Roller! Stay away from Vermont though - too many cows. Even with fully exercised ABS you might T-Bone one. VXs don't look as good with bovine-shaped dents. So here's what you do: Since old money high rollers love brick driveways, and old brick is slick when it's wet, next time it rains go visit one of your Country Club buddies and drive about 35 mph up his long brick driveway - and then just when you see the whites in the butler's eyes - stand on the brakes!

:bgwb: HAHA

[VX4EJR]

Aren't both units sealed? The plastic electronics "brain+solenoid" component should not have any interaction with brake fluid. The brake fluid should be contained inside the valve box. if you look at the picture of the unit split into its two components, you don't notice any brake fluid at the interface of the two parts.

Just wondering, has anyone actually confirmed the above is true? When the two sections are "easily" detached, there is no fluid leakage or anything else coming out. I suppose the past photos being referenced which could have been taken after pieces were cleaned up a bit(?).