SWAT team kills Marine in his home

[RabidPony]

I really don't even know where to start ranting about this because I'm so pissed. I'm rapidly losing faith in law enforcement.

WTF (http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/article_d7d979d4-f4fb-5603-af76-0bef206f8301.html)

[vt_maverick]

Seems like a lot of missing facts to be drawing judgment just yet...

[surf-life]

Yea I dont think SWAT opened fire just randomly. The guy had a chance to put his AR down. He probably made a move on the team and they had to do there job.

[Riff Raff]

Yea I dont think SWAT opened fire just randomly. The guy had a chance to put his AR down. He probably made a move on the team and they had to do there job.

x2. Yup, that is normally how it happens-- failure to follow the instructions by law enforcement when they already have a bead on you in the cross-hairs. Sounds like is may be suicide by cop.

:_confused

[USMCvxOFFROAD]

speechless. appalled. and pissed

[circmand]

Seems like a lot of missing facts to be drawing judgment just yet...

The cops have the facts and are not releasing them even 6 days after gunning this guy down. The article also states

but he never fired a shot, the Sheriff's Department said Monday after initially saying he had fired on officers during last week's raid

They shot him 71 times in 6 seconds and he never fired a shot. The cops lied and tried to say that he did. Most cops are good people but they also protect the scum in their union and organization. These SWAT guys think they are heores when they go into a situation with body armor and superior weaponry and superior numbers. I say lets send these cowards over to Afghanistan where they face equal numbers and see how brave they are,

[vt_maverick]

I think it's really immaterial whether they shot him 5 or 50 or 71 times - it's what happened just before shots 1-5 or so that really matters, since that's probably all it took. Did they announce themselves or not? To me that's the central question - I think it's pretty reasonable to assume I'm going to die if SWAT knocks down my door and I'm pointing an assault rifle at them (shooting or not).

[RabidPony]

I think it's really immaterial whether they shot him 5 or 50 or 71 times - it's what happened just before shots 1-5 or so that really matters, since that's probably all it took. Did they announce themselves or not? To me that's the central question - I think it's pretty reasonable to assume I'm going to die if SWAT knocks down my door and I'm pointing an assault rifle at them (shooting or not).

According to the wife and the neighbor, who is a Vietnam vet, there were no sirens or announcements that they were police until after it was all over. Also, they denied the paramedics access to him while he was still alive and on the floor bleeding to death, not that he could survive that many hits. His wife even called 911and begged the SWAT members to get him help but they didn't let the medics get to him for over an hour. How is that justifiable?

[VXjunky]

suicide by cop...all the rage

[Gussie2000]

According to the wife and the neighbor, who is a Vietnam vet, there were no sirens or announcements that they were police until after it was all over. Also, they denied the paramedics access to him while he was still alive and on the floor bleeding to death, not that he could survive that many hits. His wife even called 911and begged the SWAT members to get him help but they didn't let the medics get to him for over an hour. How is that justifiable?

Is not justifiable under no circunstance denying medical assistance to a wounded individual,if that's the case then the police just violate a universal human right.

Based on the info the ex marine was crowlling under some furniture which means he was expecting somebody,but didn't knew it was the police ( How possible he didn't knew if they ID'd they self as they said ) I bet if he knew is more likely he would surrender.

The guy was working overtime to keep up with the bills,so drug dealing is not a possibility

The police didn't knew as of who and how many people were inside the house,which could ended up been a massacre if more people were in the line of fire,and that means the SWAT team didn't had any intel of the house more than just being suspicious of drug dealing

No drugs,no laundering money,no signs of drug dealing or drug paraphernalia were found....so WTF :mad:

I think the wife has a good case to sue the entire city.

You can't open fire just because someone is handling a gun,in order to open fire that individual must 1rst show intentions to aim and shoot at you,once that is the situation you are legally able to fire,no questions asked.

In similar situations law enforcement officials fails to command the individual/s surrender their weapons to avoid fatalities,they just open fire.

[RabidPony]

Oh yeah, forgot to mention that the reason they opened fire was because one of their own people had an accdental discharge. They heard the shot and saw wood chips come off the door frame so they all opened fire.

[etlsport]

Oh yeah, forgot to mention that the reason they opened fire was because one of their own people had an accdental discharge. They heard the shot and saw wood chips come off the door frame so they all opened fire.

where does it say that? it says one of the rounds hit the door frame and sent chips flying, to me all that was explaining is why there were reports of the man firing back then later saying that he didnt actually fire shots.

a man dying with no explanation is never acceptable, but dont presume he was innocent because hes ex-military. the fact that he was a marine is completely irrelevant to the story

[Gussie2000]

Oh yeah, forgot to mention that the reason they opened fire was because one of their own people had an accdental discharge. They heard the shot and saw wood chips come off the door frame so they all opened fire.


I think that is BS by all means.They just trying to cover their as@es

As a law enforcement official you must report if you opened fire so if one of the SWAT team member " accidentally" opened fire the rest of the team shall knew that the inicial shoot was done by one of their own.

[RabidPony]

I've read a bunch of articles on it. I'll find the one that mentioned the accidental discharge after I eat.

[RamAirZ]

I'm not taking sides. Just because the wife SAID he was working a 12hr shift doesn't mean that's what he was actually doing. Her denying he said "I've got something for you" doesn't surprise me because that was her husband, and father to her kids. Of course she's not going to agree that he gave the cops any reason to fire upon him. I think it's stupid that everyone gets all up in rage about crap they have no REAL clue to. Could the cops have been in the wrong? Sure! Could the Marine have been in the wrong? Sure! And I agree with etlsport that because he was a Marine should have no impact. I have known some real douche-bag military people that honestly don't deserve my respect in any way. Also this "he was still alive" stuff, do you really think the neighbor got close enough to the inside of the house to see if he was still alive? Or have the medical background to really know?

[Gussie2000]

Also this "he was still alive" stuff, do you really think the neighbor got close enough to the inside of the house to see if he was still alive? Or have the medical background to really know?


The guy was dragged out of his house after the cops went into the house and left him on the street

If you read the articule it says that the cops were broken into houses in the neirborghood


The guy probably said "I got something for you" Believing that was some ramdon burlary going on,i truly thought that he'll say something like that well aware that is THE SPECIAL WEAPONs AND TACTICs TEAM coming into your house

[RamAirZ]

I read the part about them serving warrants in other houses. And if he did know it was SWAT, it wouldn't be the first time a psychotic ex military guy with issues did something stupid. And any real proof they just left him there? Another doubt in my mind because as much as I get irritated with cops sometimes, that would be a huge "breach" in protocol and bringing him out into the open where neighbors could see just doesn't sound like something realisitic. It very well could have happened, but just seems more far fetched than truth

[RabidPony]

I didn't read anything about him being dragged out of the house but what I read from the interview with his wife is that she was taken past him as they were removing her from he house and he was lying on he floor gasping for air. The part about the neigbor was that he was saying that there were never any sirens or flashing lights until the ambulance got there after the shooting had already taken place and that he never heard anyone yell police or SWAT as identifying themselves before opening fire.