Pets - Reptiles

[JHarris1385]

I know I have mentioned this before but I own an aquatic map turtle and have had a bearded dragon as well as various other reptiles in the past. I know some of you own some yourself (nfp's awesome matamata), but with all the new members I would like to know who else has what...

AND the main reason for this post!!!!!

Does anyone have any advice or tips with tortoise care? I am pretty sure this is my next adventure and I want to make it perfect. I have been considering this for years, since it is a lifelong commitment and probably something i will have to will to someone.

[wekilled]

I have had a female beardy (bearded dragon) for about a year now and she's the most personable reptile I have ever owned. I let her roam the house and throw her in the bottom of the shower every so often. She craves attention like a dog and falls asleep on me watching TV.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/Tat_and_Karma.jpg

As far as turtles, haven't owned one in quite awhile. I just remember that the cage needs to be kept clean (I use pieces of natural slate flooring from Home Depot on the bottom of my dragons cage) which is better than sand or other products.

[JHarris1385]

Ever fed your beardie phoenix worms? http://www.phoenixworm.com/servlet/StoreFront Looks like the site is not as organized as it once was. But they are said to be the best for them. I know mine loved them.

[MeowMix]

Aw...what a pretty beardy you have wekilled! This thread makes me miss my scaley kids; I used to share my home with veiled chameleons...among many other things. Started with my first when I was 15yrs old. They're higher maintenance than most herps, though totally worth it. They've all gotten old and died by now...and JT, my rescue cham with missing toenails ended up falling and sustaining a spinal injury. Had to put him down. I even designed his cage to be fall friendly -- must have hit the spinal cord just right. :( I'll have another herp one of these days, though I'm not quite over the fear of contracting salmonella from reptiles...again. That was NOT a fun time. At least I know my southern leopard frog is clean -- haven't contracted anything from her in the past 6 years anyway, lol. :p

JHarris -- what species of tortoise are you looking at getting? Something small like a greek or russian? Or a huge one that you can't even lift, like a sulcata or something?

-MeowMix

[Triathlete]

I have a red ear slider. Got him about the size of a silver dollar now he is about 8 inches long. He is very active and has a great personallity.:yesy:

[JHarris1385]

@ Sunfire - I first wanted ONLY a Sulcata but then...reality sat in and I don't think I am ready just yet for one that can get that big. So I believe the Mediterranean species are my best bet for these first couple/few years... #1 Marginated, Greek, Russian, Hermann...etc. #1 by Marginated because it really like their shell color. Do you have any?

@Tri - I remember you posting that before. Between moving and an apartment that did NOT allow aquariums I let 3 of my RES go. One was about the size of yours and the others a couple inches smaller. I made sure they were hunters and could survive.


...Growing up I used to "save" lots of box turtles from the highways. After almost every rain you could find one out in the country areas where I grew up.

[Exclamation]

I own a bearded dragon, hes about 10 inches long now. Great personality but he is EXTREMELY picky with his food. I had a 40 gallon reptile tank for him to live in but it seemed too small for him so I built an atrium type addition for him. I can post pics if others would like to do the same.

[MeowMix]

@ Sunfire - I first wanted ONLY a Sulcata but then...reality sat in and I don't think I am ready just yet for one that can get that big. So I believe the Mediterranean species are my best bet for these first couple/few years... #1 Marginated, Greek, Russian, Hermann...etc. #1 by Marginated because it really like their shell color. Do you have any?

I haven't owned any tortoises, though have cared for many in my time -- I used to work at Petsmart, and I was one of about two of us in the entire petcare department who actually cared about the animals. We had a lot of russians and greeks come through, though we didn't carry anything large like a sulcata. Dr. Carr over at Banfield had a 50yr old sulcata who was a petty cool guy. Have you ever looked at indian/sri lankan star tortoises? The pattern on their carapace is super cool looking, and they also stay small.

-MeowMix

[wekilled]

Karma pretty much likes her dry pellet and bug mix from the petstore, live crickets, and occasionally whatever she sees me eat. She even grabbed a bit of a Vietnamese spring roll out of my hand one time.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/Karma_Pookie.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=20238)

She's gotten pretty big (and fat) and likes to be social, asking to be let out of her cage so she can roam the house and sit on the back of the couch -- or pal around with my wife's dogs.

[MeowMix]

Karma pretty much likes her dry pellet and bug mix from the petstore, live crickets, and occasionally whatever she sees me eat. She even grabbed a bit of a Vietnamese spring roll out of my hand one time.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/Karma_Pookie.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=20238)

She's gotten pretty big (and fat) and likes to be social, asking to be let out of her cage so she can roam the house and sit on the back of the couch -- or pal around with my wife's dogs.

Lol! Sounds like Karma has a wonderful family who loves her very much :yesy: You make sure to give her regular salads as well, right? Romaine, green leaf, etc is great for beardies. Just stay away from broccoli, cabbage, and spinach -- they contain oxalates, which are calcium binding. Beardies are great fun; they're like ectothermic, scaley dogs...you just can't beat their awesome personalities. I hear you on the spring roll thing...my parrots also eat whatever I eat in addition to their regular diet. My yellow-sided green cheek conure goes nuts for strawberries! She also grabbed a nip of my beer once when I wasn't looking, and now she'll fly across the room chasing my glass of Blue Moon, lol! :laughy: You can see Josie bird in my avatar.

...what breed of dog is the cute little black guy with Karma? A Shih Tzu or Lhasa Apso? Or a mix of?

-MeowMix

[JHarris1385]

Hey Tri, do you have picture of your set up? I let mine go when he got about that size.

What food do you use?

Do you have issues with keeping the water clear? That was my biggest battle.

[wekilled]

@ SunfireKat: Thats "Pookie," my wife's little Yorkie-Poo mix. (that whole sentence is about as undignified as you can get)

I don't mind a small dog as a "sidekick" dog for a cool large canine, but just owing a little dog by itself is like owning Robin without having Batman around.

She just got another, so now I have two Robins in the house with still no Batman. Weak.

[Ldub]

I have a red ear slider. Got him about the size of a silver dollar now he is about 8 inches long. He is very active and has a great personallity.:yesy:

:laughing:...uhhhh...yeah...me too...:laughing:

OMFG...:laughing:

Not reptiles...but I have chinch bugs...& manganese

[MeowMix]

@ SunfireKat: Thats "Pookie," my wife's little Yorkie-Poo mix. (that whole sentence is about as undignified as you can get)

I don't mind a small dog as a "sidekick" dog for a cool large canine, but just owing a little dog by itself is like owning Robin without having Batman around.

She just got another, so now I have two Robins in the house with still no Batman. Weak.

The yorkie half explains the length in the coat...there are so many designer dogs now, I can't keep up anymore. Since when was it okay to charge thousands of dollars for a half breed is what I wonder. The concept of a "designer dog" confounds me. :_thinking

Lol...nice analogy there. Just randomly bring home a german shepard one day; you could name it Bruce Wayne. I'll bet the wife would just love that, haha. :laughy:

-MeowMix

[CoastieCosta567]

Of subject, for 2 sec's, "J" did you ever find the sticker, would be nic:bgwo:e to see you sporting one and have to VX twins riding around the Nation.

[JHarris1385]

I found a couple that I like but have not bought either yet. I think I made a thread about it if so I will post the ones I liked there and see what everyone thinks. I am currently thinking about selling my 20's and 16's, keeping the stocks and buying a set of 18's with MT's.

[nfpgasmask]

Well, I might as well add a reply here.

My Mata Mata died about 6 months ago. I still don't know exactly what happened, but most likely it was a respiratory infection. I think the climate out here in NV was simply too dry. I had the top of the tank closed up for the most part to keep as much humidity in as I could, and I probably should have had an additoinal humidifier in there as well, but the bottom line is, I failed. He went from normal to dead in under a week.

This happening only brought back the feelings that I have about keeping exotics back 10 fold. I kept a lot of herps back when I was a kid and teenager, and I got out of it for a reason. I thought now, with steady income and the "know-how" I could keep a turtle once again. It was probably a stupid idea to keep a Mata Mata in the first place, since they are pretty much on the top of the "advanced species" list right up there with Fly River Turtles, but still.

Anyway, like I said, this just makes me feel stronger about people keeping exotics and non-domesticated animals in general. And I'm not just talking about herps, but birds, fish, mammals, etc. These animals just do not belong in captivity, unless the keeper is a dedicated to its care and husbandry (like in a zoo environment), I just feel like it isn't a good idea, and certainly not fair to the creature. After I got the Mata Mata, it was less than a year before I started feeling guilty again.

And on top of the guilt, there is the whole problem of invasive species, disease, illegal trading of endangered and threatened species, pressure on wild populations, the list goes on. Basically, I just won't do it anymore. I don't want any part of the "pet trade". These are not pets, they are captive specimens. My cat is a pet, my dog is a pet. Tigers and Mata Mata turtles are not pets.

While I don't hold keepers in contempt, I just feel like its such a bad thing to do, if you really "love" and respect the animal. There's just sooooo many sad stories of neglect, improper care, and plain old failure, like in my Mata's case, that just make me feel like crap.

OK, I'll get off my soap box now. Good luck to all the keepers out there.

Bart

[CoastieCosta567]

I found a couple that I like but have not bought either yet. I think I made a thread about it if so I will post the ones I liked there and see what everyone thinks. I am currently thinking about selling my 20's and 16's, keeping the stocks and buying a set of 18's with MT's.

Nice, i'll get back with ya on that thread when u bring it up again.
I want a Iguana, i used to have one when i was younger, but i want one again.

[Triathlete]

Hey Tri, do you have picture of your set up? I let mine go when he got about that size.

What food do you use?

Do you have issues with keeping the water clear? That was my biggest battle.

No good pics but basically I have a 20 gal. long aquarium (for now until he out grows it), natural gravel and rocks, a floating "dock" for sunning, a screen type cover, a regular aquarium light, a sun lamp, 2 filters...a zoo med 318 in tank and a zoo med 501 canister filter. As far as food my red ear is not to picky. I give him pellet food, shrimp, and occasionally fresh veggies. After doing some reading on the subject of keeping the water clear that a key "ingredient" is to change out the charcoal often. The dirty water is caused by the build up of ammonia which the charcoal absorbs...I still need to do a water change out every 2-3 weeks though...it's just the nature of the beast.

[VXIRONwoMAN]

Anyway, like I said, this just makes me feel stronger about people keeping exotics and non-domesticated animals in general. And I'm not just talking about herps, but birds, fish, mammals, etc. These animals just do not belong in captivity, unless the keeper is a dedicated to its care and husbandry (like in a zoo environment), I just feel like it isn't a good idea, and certainly not fair to the creature. After I got the Mata Mata, it was less than a year before I started feeling guilty again.

And on top of the guilt, there is the whole problem of invasive species, disease, illegal trading of endangered and threatened species, pressure on wild populations, the list goes on. Basically, I just won't do it anymore. I don't want any part of the "pet trade". These are not pets, they are captive specimens. My cat is a pet, my dog is a pet. Tigers and Mata Mata turtles are not pets.

While I don't hold keepers in contempt, I just feel like its such a bad thing to do, if you really "love" and respect the animal. There's just sooooo many sad stories of neglect, improper care, and plain old failure, like in my Mata's case, that just make me feel like crap.

OK, I'll get off my soap box now. Good luck to all the keepers out there.

Bart

I agree with you to the nth degree, Bart! Especially once my Bearded Dragon didn't take well to moving to Chicago and passed away. In my efforts to do some good after his death, I adopted 2 more Beardies in desperate need of a good home. Their living conditions were so sad, I won't even go into detail about that. But here is a little about them after I rescued them...

It started with Ozzy and Sharon... who couldn't get enough of each other from the start.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/BD_006.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=20286)

Little did I know that Sharon had a surprise waiting... 22 eggs were laid. Being my first clutch, I didn't expect any survivors...
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/Babies_033.jpg

I was wrong... 11 hatched! And all that hatched survived! The one on the far left was the first born and the runt of the clutch.
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/Babies_071.JPG

Here's a good size comparison...Father and his first born...
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/Babies_013.jpg

After the eggs were laid, I adopted Sharon to a herp expert in Michigan because I didn't have space for 13 Beardies. She even has an alligator! I adopted all the babies out and kept Ozzy. He roams around in his 100 gallon terrarium all to himself. He is so spoiled. I don't think I will take any more reptiles in after he is gone though, because I do feel the same as Bart. This isn't where they belong.

[VXIRONwoMAN]

For those that have good eaters...

I buy all my live food from www.premiumcrickets.com They have great prices, and give quality product. I have bought crickets, butter worms, phoenix worms, and super worms from them. I have always been happy with them and so has Ozzy. It's waaaay cheaper than getting them from the local pet shop.

Just a suggestion...

[JHarris1385]

Tri - just found this link on Tortoise/Turtle forum. http://www.turtlepuddle.org/health/small_tank_filter.html

This is what I am doing. My Map is not large...and has a 55gallon. Loves it but meanwhile is living in a smaller one till I re-do it.

[Triathlete]

Just snapped some shots of my tank...
As said before, it is a 20 long
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo150/Triathlete/Torties%20tank/DSC_0047.jpg

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo150/Triathlete/Torties%20tank/DSC_0048.jpg

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo150/Triathlete/Torties%20tank/DSC_0049.jpg

Lights
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo150/Triathlete/Torties%20tank/DSC_0050.jpg

The ZooMed 501
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo150/Triathlete/Torties%20tank/DSC_0051.jpg

Floating sun deck
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo150/Triathlete/Torties%20tank/DSC_0052.jpg

In tank filter (ZooMed 318) and inlet/outlet's for the 501
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo150/Triathlete/Torties%20tank/DSC_0053.jpg

And Tortie enjoying the sun
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo150/Triathlete/Torties%20tank/DSC_0054.jpg

[Osteomata]

And another Red Ear Slider tank, for Bombay and Princess Sinda.
40G tank, natural cork above waterline background, white sand bottom, Eheim cannister filter, creeping fig plants growing so well they are running up the wall behind the tank, good amount of driftwood, full daylight spectrum fluorescent lamp in front, double heat lamp in back, sunning platforms on both the right and left sides. The turtles are about six years old, this is their third tank (10G, 20G, now 40G), I will be shifting them to a custom designed 90G next.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/photo3.JPG (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/20290)

[JHarris1385]

Here is my inspiration: http://www.youtube.com/user/BauriBob#p/u/10/dYB_ftul1CI
He has a lot of other great videos as well.

I can't wait to get my 55g set up how I want it to be before I put him back in there. I have decided to upgrade to a canister filter - Cascade 1000: http://www.amazon.com/Canister-Aquarium-Filter-265-GPH/dp/B0002DJ9NY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1299436988&sr=8-1

I have heard very good reviews from this filter and then I asked my pet shop owner family friend and he even recommended it. So I will replaced my power filters and internals with this. And just in case, I have decided against the UG filter and will only use this, with A LOT more plants. The rule is 10g per inch of shell at minimum, even with that I think he will soon get a 125 up from his current 55...but we shall see.

Here is the next basking platform I am getting....http://www.amazon.com/Reptology%C2%AE-Large-Turtle-Floating-Platform/dp/B003U83ERU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1299437163&sr=8-1

I have the docks like you two have and a suction cup one as well, but something about this one I really like.

Do you feed yours goldfish or anything else? I have to admit, when my RES was about 8'' or so, he was introduced to a few new foods like hot dog chunks and etc. He loved it and was an eating machine.





.....Side note as far as keeping pets.
I agree with you Nfp. I think you should duplicate the natural environment as much as you can, but even then it is still not truly as good as their real habitat and never will be. As much as I love them as pets, I also think that I am doing something wrong by having anything like this in captivity. But then in reality I personally and anyone else I could convince could never stop the world pet trade and it is much better to have passionate and caring owners out there than abusive/destructive..etc. Kinda of like the saying, if you can't beat them join them. On that note all I can hope to do is spread awareness and hope it teaches others how to truly care for their pets especially exotics.

..For instance with tortoises, I would not buy one from a pet store for many reasons; but then again, would buying one from the pet store in the end provide it a better life then what is destined for it if it does not sell and is subject to shelf life? It is almost a non-winning situation either way you look at it and is far more complexed and non linear than what we all can initially see on the surface. What I can tell myself, is that there is a GREAT probability that I am providing my map turtle a better life than what he may have experienced elsewhere. I could and I am sure we all could, go on for days about this issue, but as long as we are providing great care we will always surpass the life the animal could have been subject to elsewhere.

...I am sorry to hear about your matamata, such a great creature and I truly enjoyed your video of it eating. Some possible relief, we would never know how long its life would have been in the wild with all the natural predators present that were not in your tank.

[wekilled]

I just feel like its such a bad thing to do, if you really "love" and respect the animal.

Not sure if I agree (completely). I don't think exotic pet ownership corners the market on pet neglect and encouragement of the equivalent of puppy mills. I agree that many people get exotics for the wrong reason ie. because they are "cool." Similar to some (again not all) 18 year olds who buy pit bulls just to impress their friends. Lots of domestic animal owners out there who abuse the crap out of their pets or buy them for the wrong reasons. I have family that feel the need to own horses but can barely take care of themselves..

My beardie was a neglected rescue born in captivity, so not sure what the alternative would be, (release into the suburban neighborhood or euthanasia are the only two choices that come to mind.) I have been raising reptiles since my teens, and will continue to only raise what I can care for physically or with regard to my own knowledge base.

Right or wrong, the fact remains there will always be a market for such animals and unfortunately, there is no minimal licensing (which there should be) for potential ownership of such pets. If the domesticated piece rather than care is the issue I think there is a spectrum of levels of domesticity- (versus domesticated or non) I wouldn't own an alligator, but our beardy she just thinks she's one of our dogs.

Anyway, not trying to take any personal stabs on anyone, and email does a really poor job of conveying tone. I basically agree with the overall intent, just think its less of an all or nothing deal.

[JHarris1385]

Yes it is hard to express your tone in typing....I edited mine a few times typing it because I could not figure how it may be taken. I will always own something, and I will always provide it the best possible life. I don't think any part of the pet trade will ever be stopped or altered, so might as well have more caring owners.


+++But I also don't want this thread to turn into a discussion solely on that topic. For that reason I almost did not post what I had to say.

[VX KAT]

OMG! I've got myself two little lizards!
OK, who are you and what have you done with VX KAT?

We caught these two outside on our walls, to keep my dog from eating them. I've been trying to ID them, but no luck.
Can some of you herp lovers help me figure out what they are?

So here's the adventures of Ziggy & Marley:

? Both are about 2" long + tail.

? I've had the larger one (Ziggy) for 10 weeks now, the other one (Marley) for about 3-4 weeks.

? The first one has grown a bit, even shed his skin this week. Can still see some old scales on his left rear leg. Cool!

? The smaller one has two bright parallel streaks of TEAL BLUE down the length of his stomach.

? Both are eating crickets very nicely! I dust the crickets with calcium 2x/week, plus put a drop in their water.


? Based on all the info I've read, I need to determine:
WHAT TYPE OF LIZARD so I know what temperature range they need.

? I've been basically assuming they fall in the "desert" category since our temps range from 20-30 low to 95 high. So they're surviving somehow in this colder weather. Our humidity is so low, I just didn't think they'd be considered "tropical".

? Just got my 2nd enclosure (larger) (this hobby is kind of addictive as well as FUN...I've been buying all kinds of stuff the last 2 weeks....lights, domes, stands, screen tops, digital temp gauge with remote sensor and a stick-on temp gauge)

? Also got the Reptisand as a substrate now instead of just rocks from outside. It has calcium in it too. Unfortunately, it seems to really stick and/or color them.....so the purple or orange cast on the lizards is from the sand.

? The bigger one now burrows into the sand for the night time.

? Both are basking on the big rock under the infared bulb.


? Got the lights all set up now too:

? UVB 10.0 CFL bulb (which also gives UVA)
? 50W infared
? 75W infared as the winter temps in my den here they'll need a little more heat.


? Been doing all kinds of temperature testing with the lights in different configurations:

? When both the UVB CFL and 75w infared are on, temp got up to 92 within 12 mins.
? With UVB and 50w infared, up to 88.5
? Both are much more active when I got the temp up around 84
? Both were hyperactive when temp was around 90 so I felt that was too hot, immediately switched to the 50w bulb.
? Now temps average around 84 - 88
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSC_1799.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSC_1831.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSC_1841.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSC_1829.JPG

[nfpgasmask]

Damn, Kat, you must be as fast as a cat to catch those!!

Those look like Southwestern Fence Lizards to me (Sceloporus cowlesi). Should be easy to care for, give water, and crickets dusted with calcium supplements for reptiles. They should take meal works, earth worms and just about any insect they can fit in their mouths as well.

:) Bart

[nfpgasmask]

A closer look at your pics tells me you might have two different species there. Interesting.

Here some links to help you ID them:
http://www.reptilesofaz.org/Lizards-Subpages/h-s-cowlesi.html

http://www.reptilesofaz.org/Lizards-Subpages/h-s-virgatus.html

http://www.reptilesofaz.org/Lizards-Subpages/h-s-graciosus.html

Bart

[VX KAT]

Damn, Kat, you must be as fast as a cat to catch those!!

Those look like Southwestern Fence Lizards to me (Sceloporus cowlesi). Should be easy to care for, give water, and crickets dusted with calcium supplements for reptiles. They should take meal works, earth worms and just about any insect they can fit in their mouths as well.

:) Bart


Here some links to help you ID them:
http://www.reptilesofaz.org/Lizards-Subpages/h-s-cowlesi.html

http://www.reptilesofaz.org/Lizards-Subpages/h-s-virgatus.html

http://www.reptilesofaz.org/Lizards-Subpages/h-s-graciosus.html

Bart

DOH! reptilesof az.org.....why didn't I think of that? :slap:


I can't take credit for catching them.....What can I say, hubby has fast hands ;)

The calcium powder says 2x/week so that's my plan. Both seem to take the dusted crickets just fine.

The big one ate 4 crickets yesterday....2 really large ones....his digestion is really hummin' along now with the heat lamp! .....and the corresponding output! :goof:


When I added the 2nd one, at first they did the puffing up, push-ups and posturing stuff for about 2 weeks....now they don't do it that much. And there's been no fighting, so I guess they'll get along.

Thanks Bart!

[nfpgasmask]

I love when they do push ups. :)

Bart

[JHarris1385]

They stilt (push-ups) due to convection and conduction heating and cooling (when not dealing with territorial issues.) If they do it a lot, check the surface temp of the rock.

Check into Phoenix Worms...from what I remember they do no require dusting, at least I didn't.

[VX KAT]

A closer look at your pics tells me you might have two different species there. Interesting.

Here some links to help you ID them:
http://www.reptilesofaz.org/Lizards-Subpages/h-s-cowlesi.html

http://www.reptilesofaz.org/Lizards-Subpages/h-s-virgatus.html

http://www.reptilesofaz.org/Lizards-Subpages/h-s-graciosus.html

Bart

I think they're different too. That link had great pics.


LARGER ONE- STILL STUMPED ON THIS ONE, NOT SURE WHAT TYPE:
THINK IT'S A FEMALE BECAUSE NO BLUE/TEAL COLORING ANYWHERE....

PLATEAU FENCE LIZARD Sceloporus tristichus
http://www.reptilesofaz.org/Graphics/Lizards/SCETRI-ww.jpg
http://www.reptilesofaz.org/Graphics/Lizards/SCETRI-F-08c.jpg
http://www.reptilesofaz.org/Graphics/Lizards/SCEUND-04.jpg




OR MAYBE:
COMMON SAGEBRUSH LIZARD Sceloporus graciosus
DESCRIPTION: A small (up to 76 mm or 3" from snout to vent), gray-brown to orange-brown lizard with pointed, keeled scales and four rows of dark, irregular shaped blotches on the back. The blotches in each row often merge together forming a dark, wavy stripe. A broad, gray mid-dorsal stripe extends from the neck onto the base of the tail. A rust or orange patch is often present in each “armpit” area and a dark bar marks each shoulder. The throat is either plain or marked with a uniform blue-gray mottling, often accompanied by pink flecking. Males have two large, blue patches on the belly. Belly patches are often edged with black. On females the belly patches are faint or lacking. During breeding season females may develop a yellow tint on the belly and orange-red suffusions on the neck and sides. Its uniform throat pattern distinguishes this lizard from the similar looking Plateau Lizard and Southwestern Fence Lizard. Its lack of side-blotches distinguishes it from the Common Side-blotched Lizard and Common Lesser Earless Lizard.
http://www.reptilesofaz.org/Graphics/Lizards/s-graciosus-2004.jpg






OR MAYBE:
TWIN SPOTTED SPINY LIZARD Sceloporus bimaculosus -"Before seizing prey it rapidly vibrates the tip of its tail"....this one does that
http://www.reptilesofaz.org/Graphics/Lizards/SCBI-07.jpg
http://www.reptilesofaz.org/Graphics/Lizards/SCEBIM-07g.jpg

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSC_1831.JPG








SMALLER ONE: MALE - ORNATE TREE LIZARD Urosaurus ornatus - I think this is definitely correct, and male because of the two blue patches.
http://www.reptilesofaz.org/Graphics/Lizards/u-ornatus-2004.jpg http://www.reptilesofaz.org/Graphics/Lizards/UROORN-09.jpghttp://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSC_1841.JPG

[Triathlete]

I don't know what type they are but there are tons of them down here. They like to sun in the summer on my block wall.
The local lizards I like are the horned toads and the ones with the white and tan striped tail that curls up over their backs (and they are very fast). And the gila monsters are awesome also...I believe illigal to capture though.

[VX KAT]

.
.
I love what you've done with your scales, the purple looks great!
Thanks, I like your teal belly stripes too, they're cool.
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/photokat4/LIZARDS/DSC_1831.jpg




Oh Ziggy, you know this can never be.....we're different species....
I'm an Ornate Tree Lizard http://www.reptilesofaz.org/Lizards-Subpages/h-u-ornatus.html
(or possibly a Long-Tailed Brush Lizard -http://www.reptilesofaz.org/Lizards-Subpages/h-u-graciosus.html)

and you're a Clark's Spiny Lizard http://www.reptilesofaz.org/Lizards-Subpages/h-s-clarkii.html
(or maybe a Desert Spiny Lizard) http://www.reptilesofaz.org/Lizards-Subpages/h-s-magister.html

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/photokat4/LIZARDS/DSC_1845.jpg


But I love you Marley...
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/photokat4/LIZARDS/DSC_2074.jpg



I must go now....
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/photokat4/LIZARDS/DSC_2054.jpg



Please stay...
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/photokat4/LIZARDS/DSC_1997.jpg



One last kiss before you go.....
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/photokat4/LIZARDS/DSC_2057.jpg




:heart::naughty::naughty:
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/photokat4/LIZARDS/DSC_1859.jpg



I'll always remember this moment...
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/photokat4/LIZARDS/DSC_2067.jpg




Be careful Marley, it's a dangerous world out there!
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/photokat4/LIZARDS/DSC_2061.jpg







Man, I've got the munchies now....
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/photokat4/LIZARDS/DSC_1947.jpg

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/photokat4/LIZARDS/DSC_1950.jpg


BURP....
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/photokat4/LIZARDS/DSC_1965.jpg




It's sure lonely now on this rock.....sigh....but I can visit him over on his tree branch
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/photokat4/LIZARDS/DSC_1857.jpg



Marley, are you up there?
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/photokat4/DSC_1904.jpg



http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/photokat4/LIZARDS/DSC_1944.jpg




Is that you Ziggy??? Come on up and visit! :heart:
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/photokat4/LIZARDS/DSC_1927.jpg

[Ldub]

for the next scintillating episode of:

"As the terrarium turns"...:laughing:

Caution: forbidden interspecies lizard love may be too graphic in nature for our younger viewers

[VX KAT]

for the next scintillating episode of:

"As the terrarium turns"...:laughing:

Caution: forbidden interspecies lizard love may be too graphic in nature for our younger viewers

http://serve.mysmiley.net/happy/happy0032.gif (http://www.blueislandsdiving.com) http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/smileys/lol-049.gif (http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/facebook-smileys.html)
Didn't know I write for Lounge Lizards Quarterly, didya?

[Hybrid1098]

You really do love you're camera huh Sue?

[Exclamation]

I noticed one thing in your pictures that worries me, I hate to blow a horn and get up in anyones business. But just as a tip from a fellow lizard owner, the usual suggestion is to only feed your lizards crickets that are as long as the space between their eyes. Otherwise the cricket may be too large for them to properly swallow and digest. Just a kind suggestion you may want to find some smaller crickets to feed these little guys :yesb::yesb:

[JHarris1385]

Agree.

Look at Phoenix worms too.

[VX KAT]

You really do love you're camera huh Sue?
You can't even imagine how many other pics I have of them....I LOVE digital!


I noticed one thing in your pictures that worries me, I hate to blow a horn and get up in anyones business. But just as a tip from a fellow lizard owner, the usual suggestion is to only feed your lizards crickets that are as long as the space between their eyes. Otherwise the cricket may be too large for them to properly swallow and digest. Just a kind suggestion you may want to find some smaller crickets to feed these little guys :yesb::yesb:


Agree.

Look at Phoenix worms too.

Thank you exclamation! I really appreciate any tips as I'm a total noobe on this.... We've been buying the small crickets (usually about 1/4" - 1/2"), but seems there's always one or two larger ones in the bunch. I won't let them have those any more. Looks like I should stick with the 1/4" ones.

I've been reading up on them, but hadn't read that, good tip. I've got the calcium, UVB and temperature all worked out now. Using an infared 50W for heat. Temp is staying between 81-82 (at night) to 86-87 daytime. I've noticed they've been more active and also really been eating a lot more since the temp is warmer, and I read that aids their digestion.

I've also got to secure and then double secure the lamp stand, lights and the cords so the cats don't knock it off and set the house on fire.
Dave's going to put some screws into the top of the wood cabinet (or put wood braces around) to keep the terrarium from moving if the felines get too active.

I tried freeze dried and live meal worms...the big one would peck at them once or twice, but didn't eat them. The other one didn't touch them.
I'll look into the Phoenix worms. I've got to improve and perfect my "keeping crickets alive" procedure.....seems i'm loosing a lot. I've got lettuce and potato for food, and the water gel things. Any suggestions?

[Exclamation]

I used freeze dried crickets because the keeping live crickets didnt work for me either. At first they didnt like the freeze dried ones, but I bought this vibrating dish that makes it look like their jumping around and they gobbled them up and once the batteries died in the bowl they kept on eating the freeze dried ones without the movement and now they will eat every single dried cricket i put in their regular bowl

[VX KAT]

Trying to streamline my set up.

Currently using a Zoo Med ReptiSun 10.0 CFL for UVA/UVB in a DEEP DOME, and a separate mini dome for heat bulb. ReptiSun product says it's 30% UVA, 10% UVB.

I'd like to get a shorter bulb so it would fit in a COMBO MINI dome unit.
I would have my infared heat bulb 50W in the other dome.
http://www.zoomed.com/Library//ProductDBImages/LF-19_Mini-Combo_Fullweb.jpg

1) CURRENTLY have Zoo Med ReptiSun 10.0 UVB CFL sitting on top of my mesh screen in a deep dome.:
http://www.zoomed.com/Library/_DB_Files/Entry2_50_MainPicture.jpg
ReptiSun™ 10.0 Perfect for all desert and basking reptiles! 10% UVB Output, 30% UVA Output, FULL SPECTRUMThe new ReptiSun™ Compact Fluorescent lamps use a special UVB transmitting quartz glass for maximum UVB penetration. Cool burning compact fluorescent bulbs screw into standard threaded sockets, eliminating the need for a separate ballast. Lamp can be oriented either vertically or horizontally in your reptile hood or clamp lamp fixture. UVB emissions help prevent or reverse metabolic bone disease andUVA increases feeding, mating, and other natural behaviors.


************************************************

2) I found this bulb: Exo-Terra 10.0 UVB SHORTER CFL ....but it doesn't have any UVA.
Repti Glo 10.0 Compact
Desert Terrarium Lamp

Ideal for all desert dwelling reptiles
Ultra High UVB output
Effective up to 50 cm (20")
Provides necessary UVB rays for optimal calcium metabolism
Recommended for use with screened terrariums; terrariums with dense screen covers (screens can filter out UVB rays)
Recommended in combination with Repti Glo 2.0 for a higher visual light output

The Exo Terra Repti Glo 10.0 has a very high UVB output similar to that associated with desert environments. Desert locations receive more direct sunlight than any other because of fewer clouds, less air humidity and no plants or trees to provide shade. Therefore desert reptiles are more exposed to UV radiation than any other type of reptile. This bulb can also be used on screened terrariums or terrariums with dense screen covers to ensure UVB penetration. Dense screens can filter out up to 50% of the UVB rays.
http://exo-terra.com/images/shared/products/compact_bulbs_100.jpg


*********************************************

3) Then found this Zilla DESERT 50 UVB COIL CFL - 20W. Definitely is shorter and will fit in the mini dome.
Gives both UVA and UVB


50 microwatt/sec. output

Desert 50 UVB Fluorescent Bulb
Ideal for Desert Dwelling Reptiles: Bearded Dragons, Uromastyx, Frilled Dragons, Horned Lizards, Collared Lizards, Chuckwallas, Sulcata Tortoises, Leopard Tortoises, Russian Tortoises, Savannah Monitors and Nile Monitors

Delivers UVB light levels essential for desert reptile health
Full-spectrum illumination accents subtle pet colors
Styles to fit fluorescent, incandescent light fixtures

Bring a ray of desert sunshine to arid reptile habitats

When it comes to the bone health of a desert reptile, the extra daily dose of UVB light provided by a Desert 50 bulb (50 microwatts per second/cm2) is as essential as proper food and water for long term strength. The Desert 50 family of bulbs also provide needed UVA light, plus visible-spectrum illumination that makes skin coloration more vivid and viewable. Get all this in a family of high-efficiency bulbs designed to fit most major fluorescent fixture types (compact, T5 and T8). Incandescent lamp users also have the option of a Coil Bulb that screws into a standard light socket. Desert 50 bulbs are designed for 3500 hours or twelve full months of average use.
http://s.petco.com/assets/product_images/0/096316670839C.jpg
http://www.zilla-rules.com/assets/006/20616.pdf

.
.

QUESTION:
10% UVB vs. 50 microwatt/sec. output
The units between the Zoo Med ReptiSun 10.0 and the Zilla Desert 50 seem to be different so I can't figure out how to compare them????

Anybody know how I can compare apples to apples here??
I have a 10 gallon terrarium.

Thanks!

[tom4bren]

I guess we're kinda in the boring department when it comes to pets. Right now we just have dogs, cats, & goldfish. In the past though I've had: a hedgehog, love birds, pythons, iguanas, a bat, a squirrel, a tarantula, a skink (my son was responsible for many of the odd pets).

Sad day yesterday. One of our Golden Retrievers passed away. Kelly was our 8 year old female & it appears that she died of heart worms (went from testing negative for the parasite to deceased in 18 months). She left a big hole in the family.

[Ldub]

Sad day yesterday. One of our Golden Retrievers passed away. Kelly was our 8 year old female & it appears that she died of heart worms (went from testing negative for the parasite to deceased in 18 months). She left a big hole in the family.

Sorry for your loss Bud...:(

[VX KAT]

:( Sorry Tom....

[Scott Harness]

Sorry for your loss.:(

[tom4bren]

Thanks guys. The loss hit me much harder than I would have thought.

Sorry to put such a damper on your thread.

[PK]

Sorry for your loss Tom.
Our pets have such special places in our hearts, especially dogs.

PK