Trouble with LED Fog Lamps [Text View]

vt_maverick

01/25/2011, 03:56 PM

Hey guys, looking for a little help with a fog light problem. Last night I installed a pair of 25 LED lights and everything looked great. LEDs were fully illuminated with headlights, parking lights, and remote lock/unlock. This morning I drove to work with them on with no problems either.

When I left work today I clicked the fob button and immediately noticed that the driver's side lamp was about half the intensity of the passenger side. I figured maybe the LED tower was just loose so I went ahead and left for home. Then when I pulled up behind a car at the first light, I could see that the passenger side was flashing / strobing. Turning the lights on and off seemed to make no difference in either lamp, and when I click the fob the passenger side works exactly as it should. The driver's side lamp is half illuminated all the time.

I haven't disassembled the housings yet (got to get the daughter to bed first), but I thought maybe you guys could give me some ideas before I start. Btw, we've not had any rain here today so that doesn't figure to be a problem.

Help?

jdm monkey

01/25/2011, 04:57 PM

Thats what happens when LEDs burn out they start to strobe and die.

vt_maverick

01/25/2011, 05:03 PM

Hmmm... sounds like I need to call Autolumination then. Any thoughts on what might have gone wrong? I've never had problems installing headlight bulbs or anything, maybe they were just defective from the manufacturer?

vt_maverick

01/25/2011, 07:43 PM

Just got this back from Autolumination:

Hi

One of two things may have happened:

1) they are installed directly beside something hot. Leds can't tolerate ambient temperatures over ~ 140F

2) they got too much voltage. That is the more likely of the two

There are several causes of voltage related failures on leds. Some vehicles chronically cause premature led failures. This is normally related to excess voltage, voltage spikes, high levels of AC current being generated from the alternator, or excessive ambient heat. While glass bulbs are slow to react to rapid surges, leds can be destroyed in milliseconds from a sudden spike or chronic high voltage, or excessive AC current from an alternator that has one or more burned out diodes. Additionally, led bulbs should only be used in areas where the ambient temperature is less than 150F.

If the bulbs are being used in DRL positions, especially GM DRL's, we highly recommend using only our patented 30 led SMT, 20 led tower II or 48 led SMT bulbs in combination with an led protector. If these precautions are not taken, the leds will fail prematurely in most DRL applications.

If the bulbs are being used in gauges with a dimmer, always set the dimmer to 80% or less. This minor adjustment will make the leds last ten times as long in some vehicles with chronic voltage issues.

If the bulbs are being used in an application with no dimmer, we have a new led protector that can be spliced into the + wire to protect against minor voltage surges. These work great in vehicles that have high voltage, or are prone to voltage surges. They can also help protect the leds from:

1. Switching on the ignition & starting the engine.

2. Changing or disconnecting the battery.

3. Charging the battery with an auxiliary battery charger, or revving the engine hard with a weak or dead battery.

4. Using jumper cables.

These are +$1.99 each, and can be purchased from the Load Equalizer page here :

http://autolumination.com/equalizers.htm

http://superlumination.com/images/auto_bulbs/led_protector_wm.jpg

The first thing I would do is to confirm the bulbs are actually failiing by removing them from the car and testing them independent of the vehicle. That will isolate the problem

The only effective way to test the led bulb is by using two test wires connected direct to a fully charged 12 volt battery or other known 12 volt power supply. This will assure that 12 volts are reaching the led circuits.

I have a hard time believing that heat was the problem, since the lamps are more or less on the outside of the front bumper. That leaves option #2, but I have a hard time believing I have some voltage surge that apparently has never affected anything but these LEDs. Convenient (IMHO) that this reason is suggested along with an ad for something else to buy.

So it sounds like they want me to re-buy (another $22) these lights, plus a voltage regulator, and ***hope*** that it doesn't happen again. :mad: Seems like a recipe for wasting money to me. What do you guys think? And how would you suggest testing against an independent 12V source as is suggested at the end of the email? It's not like I have an electrician's workbench handy in my garage.

VX KAT

01/25/2011, 08:39 PM

That leaves option #2, but I have a hard time believing I have some voltage surge that apparently has never affected anything but these LEDs. Convenient (IMHO) that this reason is suggested along with an ad for something else to buy.

So it sounds like they want me to re-buy (another $22) these lights, plus a voltage regulator, and ***hope*** that it doesn't happen again. :mad: Seems like a recipe for wasting money to me. What do you guys think? .

I don't know much about 'lectricty, that's for sure, but mine, Eric's, and at least two others, who I can't recall, all had some "new" LEDs blow/self destruct .....which only leads me to think it may be fairly common..???

I think I'd try to return the ones to autolumination (kind of insist on a credit)...and buy the $12.59 ones on ebay from "motoringmax" (w/free shipping) and give them a try....less to lose.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140445071552&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT#ht_7038wt_909

Another idea may be to consult Kenny...he's Mr. electric/electronics...maybe he has some input that will help.

Grif

01/25/2011, 08:50 PM

I have had the same problem with one of their bulbs. I have yet to pull it to take a look but was thinking more along the lines of a short across some of the electrical leads. If you look at the LED towers, at least mine have exposed contacts on the tower itself and I was expecting to see water or corrosion or both shorting out some of the individual LED elements. If my bulb was not seated properly or there was a break in the seals, then I could see that happening and half-expected that to be the case. I have yet to confirm this however.

The theory given by autolumination doeas make sense however. If you have your bulbs on from the moment you turn your key on, then turn the key to start the vehicle, your vehicle is dropping and surging voltage pretty wildly. Stick a voltmeter across your battery terminals as you perform that action and in most vehicles you wil see approx 12v with no load, drop to as low as 10v when the starter kicks in, and then up to the nominal 14.4v when the engine starts up and revs the alternator up to speed. All that is assuming everything is functioning fairly normally. Thats a pretty wide drop then surge in whats typically 5 seconds or less.

That being said, these are being sold as automotive bulbs and SHOULD (one would think) be designed to handle surges common to automotive applications.

His test of removing the bulbs and testing them with a known good 12v power supply proves nothing except that some of the LEDS have been blown or not. His fix of inserting dimmer (a simple pot)or equalizer (prolly a simple resistor/capacitor/diode combo) does make sense if surges indeed are the problem, however it will not fix your current bulb.

If you choose to replace the bulb and not use one of his fixes, another fix would be to ensure the LED lights are not turned on as the engine is started, but that would be a relay/switch combo which could prolly be rigged using mostly existing wiring. Not sure.

vt_maverick

01/26/2011, 05:02 AM

Thanks Grif, that makes a lot of sense. I didn't have the lamps on when I turned the key, so I don't think it's a surge due to that. I'm going to do my due diligence this morning and stop by Advance/Auto Zone to have them check the alternator just to make sure it's not going bad. And your thoughts on the 12V source test are what I thought too; if the bulb is already damaged, what's that going to prove?

A bit of good news (for now): when I got up this morning I pulled both bulbs, and for S&G's reversed the terminals in each lamp. It didn't do anything for the flashing LED, but for the dim LED (driver's side) it immediately returned to full illumination. I say "for now" because it was also at full illumination two nights ago when I first installed it in the reverse position. :_thinking

I agree with you that no matter what an equalizer sounds like a good idea, although I'm not a fan of splicing wires to do it. I think that I'm going to write another email casting serious doubt over their excuses, then suggest that if they'll send me a replacement bulb, I'll buy one of their equalizers and pay for shipping. I figure that puts them out what, maybe $5 at most? Seems to make good business sense to me.

Has anyone had success in getting them to replace burned out bulbs at all? Just wondering what kind of push back I can expect.

tom4bren

01/26/2011, 05:44 AM

Ash,

If you have a Scan Guage, set it to display the voltage. I believe that the Scan Guage will react quicker to voltage changes than any cheapo multimeter that you would use. The only issue with that though is that you won't be able to read the voltage changes during engine start. You said that you didn't turn the lights on until the VX was already running anyway.

It sounds to me as if the lights are a poor design. They should have be manufactured with pull down resistors already included.

Vehicle power is notoriously 'dirty'. Even with the voltage regulator. 24V Vehicle Power Conditioners (VPC) are common on modern military vehicles due to the amount of electronics they now run. I don't think that there are commercial 12V VPCs available though.

You can do that test that they mentioned without removing the lights from the vehicle. Just disconnect the power lead and connect it to a wire directly from the battery.

Another note: since LEDs do react much quicker to voltage changes than incandecent bulbs, it's a good idea to always solder all of the connections rather than just pigtailing & taping them.

vt_maverick

01/26/2011, 08:20 AM

Unfortunately I don't have a Scan Gauge so I can't check it that way. I tend to agree with you, it sure seems like the lights are too fragile and poorly designed, which makes me think maybe I should just try for a refund instead. I'll shoot them another email this morning and see what they say.

vt_maverick

01/26/2011, 08:23 AM

While this deal plays out with Autolumination, I decided to try the Malibu 18W 12V incandescent bulbs that deermagnet recommended for comparison. While I was in Home Depot I also found 18W 12V xenon bulbs of the same size / base configuration, so I picked up a set of those to try out as well.

I'll install both sets tonight and try to snap some pics for you guys to compare. Should be interesting...

etlsport

01/26/2011, 08:54 AM

i have had lots of issues with bulbs in that spot! started with malibu bulbs and they were fine, but when i switched to hid headlights i wanted everything to match.

started with 1watt led bulbs from superbright LEDs. they were ok, looked decent but after month one of them went out.

i went to malibu orange bulbs, they looked pretty nice, but i wanted the white lights.

i tried xenon 921 bulbs.. they looked decent but still a little yellow for what i wanted.

i tried new housings there that looked really nice but the light was still yellow with H3 bulbs in there. tried H3 LED bulbs.. they looked awful with a clear front lens.

tried hid H3s in the new housings. the cladding started to melt

i tried 30 led towers in the stock housings. they started turning blue after 15 minutes of use and eventually one of them popped, like popcorn

i switched to 25 LED towers that looked great, didnt turn that blue, happy with them. after a couple months one of them went out!

fed up with it, i pulled the leds apart. turns out all of the LED bulbs that had gone out on me, was just one of the leads came loose from the board. i re-soldered all the bulbs i had laying around... been a a few months hassle free!

vt_maverick

01/26/2011, 08:56 AM

Seems to further support the idea that these LED bulbs are pretty cheaply / poorly built. Did you try xenon bulbs?

vt_maverick

01/26/2011, 08:57 AM

Oh and by the way, has anyone ever installed one of these voltage regulators/equalizers? I'm wondering if everyone's issues are related to the same underlying power "dirtiness."

etlsport

01/26/2011, 09:52 AM

i installed resistors over my tail light leds when i put them in.. seemed to do pretty well.. they caused some issues on Spike's vx with his shift lock not releasing for some reason.. no problems on mine though

yea i dont think these leds bulbs are usually very well made, and im fairly certain they are all from the same company, just sold through different places. ive ordered from ebay (jdm-lighting something) autolumination and superbright LEDs. autolumination has had the best customer service by far. superbight LEDs is ok but the bulbs ive ordered from them have not fit very well in factory housings.

vt_maverick

01/26/2011, 10:44 AM

Just sent them an email suggesting that they send me a new set of bulbs if I pay for the "equalizers" and shipping (shouldn't be more than $10 max). We'll see...

etlsport

01/26/2011, 10:51 AM

i did try xenon bulbs, they were still a bit yellow compared to my hids.. then tried a xenon bulb with a blue coating.. that was the right color, but very dim

vt_maverick

01/26/2011, 11:09 AM

What K HIDs do you have?

Buffy

01/26/2011, 11:55 AM

[QUOTE=vt_maverick;218230]LEDs were fully illuminated with headlights, parking lights, and remote lock/unlock.

When I left work today I clicked the fob button and immediately noticed that the driver's side lamp was about half the intensity of the passenger side. QUOTE]

I wonder if flashing the fog lights when you hit the fob caused the problem. Seems like it would be sending a surge of current to the lights thus causing the failure. If I understand correctly the lights flash when you hit the fob. Just a theory though.

mdwyer

01/26/2011, 01:35 PM

I wonder if flashing the fog lights when you hit the fob caused the problem. Seems like it would be sending a surge of current to the lights thus causing the failure. If I understand correctly the lights flash when you hit the fob. Just a theory though.

Although I can't speak for the surge issue, there should be no problems at all with flashing an LED. Flashing IS generally bad for HID bulbs, especially if the ballast doesn't support hot-restrike.

I'm leaning towards the "Cheaply Made" thing, myself, although I will give some credit to the heat issue, too, though I also find it surprising that they would heat up so much while in place like that.

etlsport

01/26/2011, 02:52 PM

Only running 6k hid lamps.. Just can't find any regular bulbs that match! After repairing my led bulbs, I'm happy

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1224.snc4/155636_711662705176_10501646_38939274_4143306_n.jp g

vt_maverick

01/26/2011, 08:17 PM

Installed both the 18W bulb types (Malibu incandescent and No-Name xenon) tonight for comparison and took a ton of pics that I'll post tomorrow. Summary is that with the naked eye I couldn't see much difference between the two, but either one is amazingly better than stock. For anyone reading this thread thinking about whether to upgrade their fog lamps, I think it's a no-brainer to at least upgrade to one of these 18W bulbs. If Mark is correct (in his post from another thread), the OEM bulbs are only ~4W, so you're theoretically getting 4 1/2 times the brightness. The Malibu incandescents are $5 for a 4-pack, while the xenons are $5 each. Contrast that with 25-LED "towers" that run $11 each, plus LED "protectors" than run $2 each, plus shipping, and the LED option costs around $30. Having installed all three options in the last two days I have to say that I like the cleanliness/color of the LED light best, but honestly I don't believe they're any brighter than the Malibu/xenon bulbs.

Meanwhile, I haven't yet received a response from Autoillumination... :(

Grif

01/26/2011, 09:14 PM

I had the Malibu bulbs installed for about a week, and was a fantastic improvement over stock. I still have those bulbs to fall back on, but the LED towers were even brighter and much closer color match to my 6000K HID headlight set. So when working properly the LED towers are preferred, for my setup at least. YMMV.

etlsport

01/27/2011, 04:48 AM

Sylvania also has a 921 bulb thats fits our housing that is made to imitate their silverstar headlights. They are about 10 bucks a pair

vt_maverick

01/27/2011, 06:17 AM

I wonder if that's the same bulb Mark (deermagnet) criticized in the other thread? He said he got an equivalent Sylvania bulb from Lowe's but it only lasted a year.

Silverstar is supposed to be as white as you can get without going HID/LED right?

etlsport

01/27/2011, 06:55 AM

wouldnt surprise me.. my silverstar 9003 bulbs (headlights) would go after 9 months to a year when i was using them.. which is part of why i went to HID. yes they are about as white as i have ever seen from a traditional style bulb. Wagner TruView bulbs are pretty good too, but i dont think quite as good as the silverstars, not sure about longevity

one thing to note is that i always have my headlights on, no matter what.. and im on the road about 1.5 to 2 hours a day. iirc deermagnet has a long daily commute too, so possibly they just dont react well to being left on constantly

Mile High VX

01/27/2011, 07:32 AM

I'm stinkin' with the Malibu's.

Mark

That's what she said...:bwgy::smilewink:bgwo::bgwb:

We love you Mark!

I've got the Malibu's also and ther're great!

Mile High VX

01/27/2011, 07:58 AM

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSCN0343.JPG

vt_maverick

01/27/2011, 08:01 AM

How much do the Silverstar Ultra's run?

Comparison pics on the way, just trying to paste them into a single side-by-side picture.

vt_maverick

01/27/2011, 08:30 AM

Comparison pics as promised...

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3269/Fog_Bulb_Comparison_Chart.png

It was kind of weird, with the naked eye I couldn't tell much difference between the xenons and the Malibus (incandescent), but you can see the difference in the photos. I went with the xenons for now because they're supposed to run cooler and look whiter than incandescent bulbs. If/when I go to HIDs I'll give the LED route another go; there's just no question that LEDs look better with HIDs. In the interim I may try the Silverstar Ultra headlight bulbs that Mile High and etlsport suggested.

Summary: The OEM fog lamp bulbs are terrible and should be replaced as a matter of general maintenance/up keep IMHO. If you don't plan on going HID pick Malibu or xenon, if you are going HID pick a LED bulb. If you do go with LEDs, learn the lesson from my purchase and make sure you buy a voltage regulator/protector/equalizer if one isn't integrated into the bulb.

EDIT: Forgot to add prices. I got both the Malibu and xenon bulbs at Home Depot. The xenon bulbs were made by "Feit Electric" and cost $4.95 each (ouch). The Malibu's were $4.95 for a 4-pack (xenon cost hurts even more now). Depending on vendor, the LED + protector solution will probably run around $30.

vt_maverick

01/27/2011, 08:32 AM

Oh and STILL waiting for a response from Autolumination. Grrrrr... :mad:

Mile High VX

01/27/2011, 08:37 AM

How much do the Silverstar Ultra's run?

I think I paid about $50 for the set and then there was a $10 rebate.

VX KAT

01/27/2011, 10:24 AM

I think I paid about $50 for the set and then there was a $10 rebate.

But Mav, Jack has that source for HIDs for around $50- $60 bucks with a lifetime warranty....why don't you try them for about the same money as the SilverStar Ultras?
http://vehicross.info/forums/showpost.php?p=209578&postcount=23

vt_maverick

01/27/2011, 10:33 AM

Mostly because I'm pissed at Autolumination. If I did get a set of HIDs (no matter how cheap) I would have to get LEDs to match, which means I'd have to re-buy LEDs from somewhere. Even if I did bend over and order another set from them, I'm not sure whether the LED protectors have to be spliced into the wire, or if they plug in to the factory wiring. I'm not the most electrically/mechanically inclined guy, and that sounds like a lot of work.

All that said I agree with you that buying Silverstars doesn't make sense if I ever intend to go with HIDs. But if I'm going to hold off on those at all, the fog bulbs posted above are a good interim solution for wimpy OEM fog lights.

VX KAT

01/27/2011, 10:39 AM

But if I'm going to hold off on those at all, the fog bulbs posted above are a good interim solution for wimpy OEM fog lights.

Man, I'm real impressed with the Xenons! :freek:...from the pics, they look virtually as white as my LEDs in my pics (which I can't believe haven't crapped out yet)...and i don't have the protectors or anything. :confused:
I think HID & Xenon would look fine.

vt_maverick

01/27/2011, 10:50 AM

Maybe, but the xenons look just a tad more yellow in person than in the pics (actually the lower right picture in the dark is the most accurate). It's hard to explain, but while the xenon and LEDs both project white light, the light from the LEDs just seems more pure / clear. I REALLY was hoping the LEDs would work, but until that problem gets figured out I'm happy with the xenons.

JAMAS

01/27/2011, 10:53 AM

so the Xenons are just a direct swap out of the bulbs?

Same size, nothing fancy?

vt_maverick

01/27/2011, 10:58 AM

The xenon and Malibu bulbs are both a little larger than the OEM bulb, but they use the exact same wedge base so they fit just fine. If you go to Home Depot and look for 18W Xenon wedge base bulbs you'll find exactly what you need.

P.S. The xenon and Malibu bulbs look almost exactly identical, so I had to make sure I put each bulb back in its original packaging as I was swapping them through for pics. They do have a text label printed on the glass, but otherwise they look the same.

vt_maverick

01/27/2011, 06:21 PM

Last night when I went to bed the xenons worked great. When I got up and went to work this morning, they were still great. I checked them before I left the parking lot after work, and they were fine. But when I get home tonight, what do I find? The passenger side bulb is burned out! :confused: :mad: :mady:

So this gets me to thinking... what if the problem is only on the passenger side? But that makes no sense because the LEDs didn't work on either side right? And then it dawns on me... there were two different symptoms with the LEDs. The passenger side was flashing, which everyone agreed means that the LEDs are nearly toast. But the driver side bulb was just dim, and it instantly brightened when I reversed the wedge in the base. At the time I thought the flashing LED on the passenger side might be a connection issue, so I switched the two to see if the other LED would flash. Although it worked fine at first, after leaving the lights on for awhile the second LED (now installed in the passenger lamp) started flashing as well.

At this point everything I have installed (besides the OEM bulb) in the passenger lamp has burned up. (That's two LEDs, one xenon bulb, and $27 for those counting.) So I figured while I'm throwing money away, I'll swap the Malibu's through to try and burn one of those out as well. If the Malibu's burn up I think it's reasonable to conclude that something else is going on.

What do you guys think? Is it possible that the socket is just too "hot" (voltage not heat) for the bulb? What would you even do to fix something like this?

P.S. Take a look at the comparison chart I posted; you can see the passenger side bulb burning more brightly in a few of those pics.

Grif

01/27/2011, 07:04 PM

What do you guys think? Is it possible that the socket is just too "hot" (voltage not heat) for the bulb? What would you even do to fix something like this?

That is curious indeed. And makes me wonder if the two sockets share a common ground wire or some such weirdness. Or perhaps multiple grounds are occurring, intentional or not.

I sure hope I get time to look at mine more closely this weekend.

When you say "blinking" would "flickering" be a better word?

vt_maverick

01/27/2011, 07:08 PM

By blinking I mean consistently turning off and on at a regular interval. As in 1 second on, 1 second off, like your turn signal blinker.

Grif

01/27/2011, 08:05 PM

That is truly odd.

Exclamation

01/27/2011, 10:06 PM

something similar to this happened in my RX8. I put LED bulbs in the parking lights located beside the headlights and after about 2 weeks the passenger bulb started blinking as you described 1 second intervals and wasn't "flickering" so I took it out and a few days later the driver side went really really dim so I gave up and figured it was some crappy bulbs and put the old bulbs in and never thought about it again. Strange that almost the same thing has happened with yours.

Riff Raff

01/27/2011, 10:56 PM

The xenon and Malibu bulbs are both a little larger than the OEM bulb, but they use the exact same wedge base so they fit just fine. If you go to Home Depot and look for 18W Xenon wedge base bulbs you'll find exactly what you need.

Good info, VT. Based upon your photo's, I'm leaning towards the brighter Xenon, as opposed to the less bright Malibu. After a quick search on the HomeDepot website, I found the exact item. Below is the Home Depot info:

Brand: Lithonia Lighting
Wattage: 18 Watt (12 volt)
Type: Xenon, Wedge-Base
Count Per Package: Two(2) Each
Model Number: UCX 2LP M12
Manufacturer Number: 290713
Internet Number: 100626333
Home Depot Price: $16.96 (2-Pack)

:bgwb:

EDIT: Here's the story--- so; after seeing the Xenon lamps on the Home Depot website, I then drive down to my local Home Depot to make my purchase of the Lithonia Xenon's for $16.96 (2-Pack... or $8.50 per each bulb). I can't find the Xenon's anywhere in the store, but immediately see the 18-watt Malibu's for only $4.97 (4-Pack... or $1.25 per each bulb). I speak to the Home Depot salesman, and he informs me that the Lithonia 18-watt Xenon's are available "on-line only" at the Home Depot website and are not carried in any Home Depot stores throughout the USA.

OK; let me get this straight-- you want me to pay $8.50 per bulb for the Xenon's, jack-up my credit card bill to make an "on-line" purchase, still have to pay my state sales tax since there is a Home Depot in my state, pay additional shipping charges for delivery, plus wait for a week for them to finally be delivered??? WTF??? Or, I can buy the in-stock 18-watt Malibu 4-Pack for only $1.25 per bulb using cold cash, then go home and immediately install them in my VX fog lights and still have two(2) spare bulbs to put in my glove box. It doesn't take a genious to quickly figure out that the 18-watt MALIBU lights is the only way to go!!! I just installed the MALIBU lights in my VX fog lights, and they look simply stunning!!!

vt_maverick

01/28/2011, 01:06 PM

Got good news from Autolumination today, earlier this week I offered to buy two of the LED protector / voltage regulators and pay shipping (~$10) if they would send me two new replacement 25 LED towers (~$22 before shipping), and they agreed. I wouldn't dare install them yet though; I'm going to drop the VX at the shop tomorrow to see if they can find the gremlin.

Electricity is black magic indeed. :evil:

vt_maverick

01/29/2011, 06:26 AM

Shop just called, apparently one of the grounds was loose so hopefully that was the problem. I'm going to throw another xenon bulb in there to test; if it blows out again I'll know further inquiry is required.

Fingers crossed... :luck:

vt_maverick

02/04/2011, 09:03 AM

Update: I've had the xenons in for almost a week now with no problems. Autolumination received and tested the LEDs I returned yesterday, and they still believe something happened to them (likely a voltage surge) after installation.

I'm a big believer in the value of integrity in business, so I filled him in on what I'd found out over the last week and offered to pay for the replacement LEDs. He thanked me but said he wanted to stick to our original deal, which I think shows an amazing amount of character. So last night I asked for his advice on what to buy for all my bulbs (markers, blinkers, brake lights, maps lights) and should hear back today with a list of part numbers (I'll post the list here for reference). The guy even offered to ship the new bulbs in the same box as the replacement LEDs to save me on shipping.

Hopefully I'll get everything installed next weekend and post pics. I'm very impressed with Autolumination's customer service, and although you can buy similar sets for a few bucks less on eBay, I'd say it's worth a little extra to work with these guys.

:thumbup:

Grif

02/04/2011, 05:24 PM

Excellent news, way to follow up Mav!

vt_maverick

02/15/2011, 10:43 AM

Replaced the fog lamps, "triangle" fender markers, and rear quarter panel markers with LEDs this weekend with major help from Billy (yellowgizmo99). Following my escapade of burning out fog light LEDs every few hours, I ordered what Autoillumination terms "LED protectors" this time around. (They're basically just resistors that you attach to the ground wire coming from each socket.) Rather than using the simple snap-together connectors, Billy insisted that we "do it right" and solder and heat-shrink wrap the connections instead. So that's two connections per bulb that have to be soldered, which adds up to a much longer installation process. It should be noted that you can install the LEDs without the protectors, but if you ever have any sort of spike in your electrical system you're likely to fry your LEDs, which are certainly more expensive to replace than regular filament bulbs.

Here's a list of what I now have installed and links to the product website:

Parts List
LEDs (http://autolumination.com/194.htm)
Fog Lamps: 25 Led SMT Tower III (2)
Amber Triangle Markers: 9 Led SMT Tower II (Amber) (2)
Rear Fender Markers: 9 Led SMT Tower II (Red) (2)
LED Protectors (6) (http://autolumination.com/equalizers.htm)

http://autolumination.com/images/auto_bulbs/194_smt3_6k_wm.jpg http://autolumination.com/images/auto_bulbs/194_smt2_r_wm.jpg http://autolumination.com/images/auto_bulbs/194_smt2_a_wm.jpg http://superlumination.com/images/auto_bulbs/led_protector_wm.jpg

I was planning on upgrading the turn signals and brake lights as well, but aside from the fact that it would have eaten up even more of Billy's weekend (not to mention piss off my beautiful wife), I couldn't really determine exactly what I needed to buy. Here's what Autolumination wrote back when I asked them about turn signals:

With many flashers, leds will cause the turns signals to flash rapidly, or not flash at all. If using leds for turn signal applications, or in vehicles with bulb-out warning systems, like Audi, Volvo, Mercedes, BMW and others, you may need to add load equalizers. For led turn signals, you can change the flasher out using one of our new patented combination led/oem bulb flashers if we have one that fits your vehicle. Unfortunately, there are no application charts for the flashers. The simplest way is to match the blades of the one you have to the images on the web page to see if we have one that matches. You can find the flasher by switching on the turn signals and finding where the clicking sound is coming from. If we do not have an led flasher that matches, use one 6 ohm load equalizer installed across the - ground wire and the + turn signal wire feeding each led bulb. Use two 6 ohm equalizers for two front, or two rear led turn signal bulbs. If you have four led turn signal bulbs in the front or rear, use two 3 ohm and position the load equalizer across the wire that feeds both bulbs. In some cases, if the front and read turn signal bulbs are powered from the same circuit, one 3 ohm on each side will take care of two led turn signal bulbs, one front and one rear. The only way to know is to try it and see. One 6 ohm at each led turn signal bulb always will work though. Place one load equalizer at each led turn signal bulb. For turn signal led bulbs, the equalizer must be spliced across the - ground wire and the + turn signal wire feeding each led bulb.

More details on load equalizers can be found at:
http://autolumination.com/equalizers.htm

Clear as mud right? :confused:

etlsport

02/15/2011, 11:59 AM

for your turn signals, i dont think its really worth the effort to replace the flasher module. its easier to just get a 6ohm resistor for each bulb (or a 3 ohm resistor across the front turn signals because its easier to work behind the front bumper than in the rear tail light area)

from what i hear, our flasher is a pita to replace

Junster

02/16/2011, 03:30 PM

The loose ground may have been the LED problem all along. Loose ground can cause a surge. I live on a boat and 80% of electrical problems I've had all lead back to corroded grounds. The local hardware guy has a spray on product called "Corrosion X" It is amazing. Stops the corrosion, cleans up old corrosion, leaves a lasting film the inhibits future problems. Only problem is his little hardware store is the only place I've ever seen it. Works great on battery terminals too. I'll ask him if he has a brochure that maybe has a URL in it.

BTW, Etl engineers also believe when it does break it's a maintenance issue, lol

vt_maverick

03/02/2011, 06:38 PM

Riff - Was doing some research and just noticed your edit to this post. Very weird, I couldn't find the Feit bulb on their website either so HD must have discontinued it sometime between when I bought it and you researched it. But as it turns out Lowe's does carry the same bulb in their stores. Here's the link:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_90663-75774-BP18XN-12_4294801215+4294964433_4294937087_?productId=323 4040&Ns=p_product_price|0&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl_Feit%2BElectric_4294801215%2B4294 964433_4294937087_%3FNs%3Dp_product_price|0&facetInfo=Feit%20Electric

So now you can go out and pick yourself up a set of xenon bulbs instead! That way we can both have a 4-pack of Malibu bulbs wasting away on our garage shelf! :p

I got both the Malibu and xenon bulbs at Home Depot. The xenon bulbs were made by "Feit Electric" and cost $4.95 each (ouch). The Malibu's were $4.95 for a 4-pack (xenon cost hurts even more now). Depending on vendor, the LED + protector solution will probably run around $30.

Good info, VT. Based upon your photo's, I'm leaning towards the brighter Xenon, as opposed to the less bright Malibu. After a quick search on the HomeDepot website, I found the exact item. Below is the Home Depot info:

Brand: Lithonia Lighting
Wattage: 18 Watt (12 volt)
Type: Xenon, Wedge-Base
Count Per Package: Two(2) Each
Model Number: UCX 2LP M12
Manufacturer Number: 290713
Internet Number: 100626333
Home Depot Price: $16.96 (2-Pack)

:bgwb:

EDIT: Here's the story--- so; after seeing the Xenon lamps on the Home Depot website, I then drive down to my local Home Depot to make my purchase of the Lithonia Xenon's for $16.96 (2-Pack... or $8.50 per each bulb). I can't find the Xenon's anywhere in the store, but immediately see the 18-watt Malibu's for only $4.97 (4-Pack... or $1.25 per each bulb). I speak to the Home Depot salesman, and he informs me that the Lithonia 18-watt Xenon's are available "on-line only" at the Home Depot website and are not carried in any Home Depot stores throughout the USA.

OK; let me get this straight-- you want me to pay $8.50 per bulb for the Xenon's, jack-up my credit card bill to make an "on-line" purchase, still have to pay my state sales tax since there is a Home Depot in my state, pay additional shipping charges for delivery, plus wait for a week for them to finally be delivered??? WTF??? Or, I can buy the in-stock 18-watt Malibu 4-Pack for only $1.25 per bulb using cold cash, then go home and immediately install them in my VX fog lights and still have two(2) spare bulbs to put in my glove box. It doesn't take a genious to quickly figure out that the 18-watt MALIBU lights is the only way to go!!! I just installed the MALIBU lights in my VX fog lights, and they look simply stunning!!!

LittleBeast

03/02/2011, 11:01 PM

Riff Raff

03/03/2011, 06:53 AM

I have found that pretty much the only LEDs worth their money are: V-LEDs
www.v-leds.com

Ryan--- thanx for sharing the website link!!! Yes, the V-LEDs website has some pretty cool LED bulbs in many different colors. However, for a 194-series LED bulb (wedge-type) that fits in our factory VX fog light housings I have some negative concerns, they are:

194-series (wedge-type):

o $10 each per LED bulb versus $1.25 each for the 18-watt MALIBU.
o Low Brightness Output Wattage for LED (2-Watt & 5-Watt) versus 18-Watt High Brightness Output for MALIBU.
o The 194-series LED bulbs are mostly used as showcar "marker" lights and do not project a viable projector light beam onto the road surface versus MALIBU has 18 watts of illumination power to be "projector" beam in VX fog light housings that illuminate the road surface.
o LED's may require a seperate "recifier" be added within the wiring circuitry in order to operate versus MALIBU is simply plug-n-play incandescent like OEM without any modification to factory wiring/circuitry.

For me, I'll stick with the much cheaper and much brighter plug-n-play MALIBU 18-watt bulbs without any of the circuitry hassles that sometimes come with LED's.

:bgwb:

vt_maverick

03/03/2011, 07:13 AM

I agree with the points below, and can definitely see why someone would want to stick with brighter incandescent bulbs.

o $10 each per LED bulb versus $1.25 each for the 18-watt MALIBU.
o Low Brightness Output Wattage for LED (2-Watt & 5-Watt) versus 18-Watt High Brightness Output for MALIBU.
o LED's may require a seperate "recifier" be added within the wiring circuitry in order to operate versus MALIBU is simply plug-n-play incandescent like OEM without any modification to factory wiring/circuitry.

For me, I'll stick with the much cheaper and much brighter plug-n-play MALIBU 18-watt bulbs without any of the circuitry hassles that sometimes come with LED's.

:bgwb:

I will disagree with this statement however. Neither LEDs nor the Malibus/Xenons are "viable projector light beams." If your goal truly is additional illumination in support of driving, you'd be much better served to buy real fog lights and fit them into the OEM fog lamp recess. The work recently done by yellowgizmo99 is a good example of a more "viable" lighting option.

o The 194-series LED bulbs are mostly used as showcar "marker" lights and do not project a viable projector light beam onto the road surface versus MALIBU has 18 watts of illumination power to be "projector" beam in VX fog light housings that illuminate the road surface.

vt_maverick

03/03/2011, 07:21 AM

I used to be a big supporter of Autolumination stuff, but all their stuff starting blinking after only a few months, so I started looking at other products and companies and I have found that pretty much the only LEDs worth their money are: V-LEDs
www.v-leds.com

Did you install their resistor / "LED protector" kit? I wonder if a power spike might have caused the problem. Could be that the V-LEDs have a protector built into the bulb.

Food for thought...

etlsport

03/03/2011, 07:41 AM

Ryan--- thanx for sharing the website link!!! Yes, the V-LEDs website has some pretty cool LED bulbs in many different colors. However, for a 194-series LED bulb (wedge-type) that fits in our factory VX fog light housings I have some negative concerns, they are:

194-series (wedge-type):

o $10 each per LED bulb versus $1.25 each for the 18-watt MALIBU.
o Low Brightness Output Wattage for LED (2-Watt & 5-Watt) versus 18-Watt High Brightness Output for MALIBU.
o The 194-series LED bulbs are mostly used as showcar "marker" lights and do not project a viable projector light beam onto the road surface versus MALIBU has 18 watts of illumination power to be "projector" beam in VX fog light housings that illuminate the road surface.
o LED's may require a seperate "recifier" be added within the wiring circuitry in order to operate versus MALIBU is simply plug-n-play incandescent like OEM without any modification to factory wiring/circuitry.

For me, I'll stick with the much cheaper and much brighter plug-n-play MALIBU 18-watt bulbs without any of the circuitry hassles that sometimes come with LED's.

:bgwb:

Yes, the LEDs are much more expensive, but they also match HIDs much better as far as aesthetics are concerned. This is important to some of us, I have tried many many options both incandescent and LED to match my HIDs.

As far as your light output concerns, its not as extreme as you make it sound. The 18w on the malibu bulbs is not a measured light output, its a measure of how much power they draw. Incandescent bulbs are only about 12-25% efficient so they are probably on par with the higher quality LEDs as far as light output is concerned. The way the front of our factory housings are etched, you will never get a "beam" of light out of them anyway just as VT pointed out

LittleBeast

03/03/2011, 08:49 AM

Neither LEDs nor the Malibus/Xenons are "viable projector light beams." If your goal truly is additional illumination in support of driving, you'd be much better served to buy real fog lights and fit them into the OEM fog lamp recess.
Exactly, our factory fogs were never intended to project light at all just simply act as a "parking light" really, I thought that was obvious. The LEDs are desirable because of their matching color to HID bulbs in our headlights, purely cosmetic. I have Hella Micro DE fog lights with 6K HID bulbs in them for fogs and they are bright enough to drive in total darkness without the headlights on.

Did you install their resistor / "LED protector" kit? I wonder if a power spike might have caused the problem. Could be that the V-LEDs have a protector built into the bulb.
You are correct, almost all of V-LEDs products have the protectors built in, hence the quality and reliability of their products is greatly increased.

Yes, the LEDs are much more expensive, but they also match HIDs much better as far as aesthetics are concerned. This is important to some of us, I have tried many many options both incandescent and LED to match my HIDs.

As far as your light output concerns, its not as extreme as you make it sound. The 18w on the malibu bulbs is not a measured light output, its a measure of how much power they draw. Incandescent bulbs are only about 12-25% efficient so they are probably on par with the higher quality LEDs as far as light output is concerned. The way the front of our factory housings are etched, you will never get a "beam" of light out of them anyway just as VT pointed out
Exactly

LittleBeast

03/04/2011, 01:31 AM

http://vleds.wordpress.com/2011/03/03/voltage-spiking-vleds/

vt_maverick

03/04/2011, 11:03 AM

The V-LEDs do look promising - seems like the right option going forward. But I do kind of like the "in-line" resistor method that Billy just installed for me, since now I don't have to worry about spikes in any LEDs I buy. Extra trouble for sure, but it does seem like there's value there.

LittleBeast

03/04/2011, 09:11 PM

....since now I don't have to worry about spikes in any LEDs I buy.

But if you buy all of your future LED's from V-LEDs you would never have to worry about that even without the so called "fix" ;-)

I just installed the V-LEDs in my brake lights, horn lights, side front markers, and license plate lights tonight and I had trouble with the license plate ones since you can only have 2 out of the 4 contacts touching so I had to work some magic with some electrical tape, but even when I was basically shorting out the circuit the V-LEDs held up because of their build quality and protection built in. I am sold, their stuff is worth the price! WAY brighter than the autolumination LEDs they replaced, not even a comparison, it was like night and day, I will put some pictures up shortly.

vt_maverick

03/05/2011, 08:37 AM

Can you also post the part #'s for the brake light bulbs you used? I'm trying to figure out what I need for those, the front and rear turn signals, and the reverse lights to finish out my LED conversion.

LittleBeast

03/05/2011, 07:40 PM

2001 ISUZU Vehicross

High & low beam headlamp
9003/H4

Parking light
194 x 2 horn lights on top of headlight assembly
194 x 2 parking lights (factory fake fog lights)

Front turn signal
1156 x 2 amber

Rear turn signal
1156 x 2 amber

Stop light/Tail light
1157 x 2 red

High mount stop light
LED Assembly red

License plate
194 x 2 white

Back up light
1156 x 2 white

Front sidemarker
194 x 2 amber

Rear sidemarker
194 x 2 red

Ash tray
74

Dome light
DE3175 for over head, little longer for rear view mirror

Instrument-general
194 x 4 dash cluster
74 x 1 shifter selector on floor

vt_maverick

03/05/2011, 08:58 PM

Am I reading this right? $79.99 for turn signal LEDs?!? :eek:

http://www.v-leds.com/1156-LED/Amber-LED/sc122236-1-2//page/1/checkForLanding/true

LittleBeast

03/06/2011, 01:10 AM

Am I reading this right? $79.99 for turn signal LEDs?!? :eek:

http://www.v-leds.com/1156-LED/Amber-LED/sc122236-1-2//page/1/checkForLanding/true

Yes $80 for the pair. So $40 each. They are twice as bright as other similar lower priced LEDs and include built in protection from voltage irregularities and include large heat sinks. These are top quality items and priced as such. Join their newsletter and get 15% off 1 order. Then they send you updates every once and a while with another 15% off coupon.

vt_maverick

03/07/2011, 10:09 AM

VXdoc

03/08/2011, 12:20 AM

Vt Maverick Knows What He's Talking About:)

VXdoc

03/08/2011, 12:27 AM

Don't Doubt Yourself

vt_maverick

03/08/2011, 08:47 AM

Vt maverick doesn't know what he's talking about, that's why he asked this above:

So with these V-LED signal LEDs do I need any of the other flasher-specific hardware that Autolumination recommends?
;)

LittleBeast

03/08/2011, 09:03 AM

So with these V-LED signal LEDs do I need any of the other flasher-specific hardware that Autolumination recommends? There was a LOT of info on their site about needing additional accessories to keep the LEDs from flashing too quickly, burning out prematurely, etc. If so I could begin to see why these are so much more expensive than simple LED bulbs.

No, all you need is the bulbs from V-LEDs, all the way down to their smallest LEDs their quality and built in protection makes it unnecessary for anything else. If you put them in the turn signals you will still need the load resistors or modify the stock flasher or buy a new digital flashed, which v-LEDs offers how to on all of these mods, it is easy.

vt_maverick

03/08/2011, 09:10 AM

Cool, thanks LittleBeast.

etlsport

03/16/2011, 06:43 AM

i think its time to try V-LEDs for me. I ordered spiderlights from superbrightleds.com, its been about a month and both have already started flickering/strobing and only 3/5 arms are actually lighting up anymore

sent one back last week for warranty replacement, no word from them.. guess its time to send the next one back too :mado:

I like the look of the V-LED version anyway with the 8 arms instead of 5

vt_maverick

03/16/2011, 08:17 AM

etlsport

03/16/2011, 08:43 AM

Eric where are you putting the spider lights? I was thinking about upgrading the LEDs in my fog lamps to those, but I'm not sure you could stuff them in there without completely disassembling the housing. Heat would also be a question.

I am using the spider lights as my tail/brake lights. They look fantastic when working properly. I agree, they would not work well on the front fog lights at all. I think they could be pretty cool as reverse lights too because they are too large for the housing it would have a cool 3d effect.. but thats about it.

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/179095_730099158376_10501646_39319748_5375241_n.jp g

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/180880_730099123446_10501646_39319747_8278799_n.jp g