Conceal to carry - if so what? Or what do you own?

[JHarris1385]

First - lets not get in a debate if it is right or not.

Who carries?
Or if you don't what do you own or what is your favorite gun?

I have a Walther PPKs

But I have my eye on the Walther PK380 with mounted laser.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=13152&storeId=10002&productId=90945&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=60806&isFirearm=Y

Side debate if you want.
9mm or .380

As you can see from the above I have a liking of the .380 but nothing against the 9mm, just like Walthers.

[technocoy]

I've got an old Ruger p89 and a Smith and Wesson .357 as far as handguns go. I was at one point eyeballing a Walther P99, but never got around to it.

I keep the Smith in my go-bag with two boxes of ammo and the P89 stays close by in the house.

I'd love to buy more, it's just such an expensive collector hobby when I don't get to shoot nearly as much as I did when I lived out in the boonies.

[Bob Barker]

I don't carry in normal every day life, but when I'm out "adventuring" I carry my Kimber .45 Stainless. It's a super sweet gun, and it's size seems like it would be intimidating enough for any person who might want to get funky, and packs enough punch for any attacking animals or zombies.


My wife does keep in her purse a teeny little Kimber .32, it's a tiny gun and I think she is ready to upgrade to that Walther PK380 that JHarris linked us to, laser sight and all. She had handled the P22 but I have been trying to talk her into a larger gun, so she wouldn't have to use all 13 rounds to stop a crack head!

[VX crazy]

I am licensed to carry (scary thought lol) but dont have room in my purse for the glock 9mm, I have had for almost 20yrs and would love to get a 40 caliber, but I carry it to and from my truck. At home I have a home defender shot gun next to my bed. I dont think larger caliber is necessarily better if you cant shoot it well.

[Ebenezr]

I keep a couple rocks, a walking stick and bat....just kidding. I haven't arrived yet. but several months back I was falling asleep and said to my wife "I'm thinking about getting a concealed weapons permit and a gun" She said...I support you in that. I shot awake thinking my goodness how the world has changed because this came from a woman who didn't even like my deer rifle in the house. So I will get a 9mm some day. nice link to watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hujvVmuLuoM&feature=related

Let me take a moment to tell you all what triggered this. I am a practicing Veterinarian in South Florida and I am contracted by the local health dept to do submissions for Rabies testing for people who have been bitten by dogs cats etc. Several months ago I submitted a Pittbull to the state lab and this is why: This guy was out hunting on a nice afternoon- minding his business and eating a sandwich in the woods. 2 Pit bulls approached him. He thought no problem...nice doggy and offered a piece of his sandwich to the lead dog. The lead dog lunged onto his backed- unexpectedly and sunk its teeth into his backpack waterpack. He says this is what saved his life literally. the second dog joined and got a bite in but the man somehow by the grace of God was able to pull his side arm and killed both dogs. The following day he retieved the body of the dog that bit him by the health dept instructions and brought it to me for submission to the state.

The woods is a nice place only to the nieve (sp). I take a walk alone into unknown areas several times a year only with my walking stick. (this is why i got a VX) A side arm would be smarter. Panthers, black bear, rabid foxes that are nuts and crazy people make being better armed smarter.

[WormGod]

Carry-conceal? In this way? Hahahahaha....

Chances are slim to none to get a conceal carry around this way. Not completely unheard of, but nearly impossible.

In any case, I pack this....

Bushmaster M4/AR-15 Carbine

http://www.reptile-like.com/guns/Bushmaster-AR15.jpg

Not mine pictured but resembles it. A deadeye at 200yds w/ my new scope.

[technocoy]

My buddy just got one of those. Very sexy beast.


Carry-conceal? In this way? Hahahahaha....

Chances are slim to none to get a conceal carry around this way. Not completely unheard of, but nearly impossible.

In any case, I pack this....

Bushmaster M4/AR-15 Carbine

http://www.reptile-like.com/guns/Bushmaster-AR15.jpg

Not mine pictured but resembles it. A deadeye at 200yds w/ my new scope.

[Marlin]

My buddy just got one of those. Very sexy beast.

I have a friend that shoots competitively. His AR15 was actually the template weapon used for the new digital blue Navy print you can get for it.

As for pistols, my wife really really wants a Taurus Millenium Pro 111-9mm. A bit expensive, but a very nice gun.

Personally I want the Taurus 24/7 Pro-.40. I dig the round in chamber feature. The new ones have the integrated key lock as well, no extra device to fumble with. I know most guns have gone in that direction for safety and liability reasons.

*sigh*, but not likely anytime soon, the big toys get most of the money and we are still building our survival kits. Just have to stick to hunting rifles for now.

[Scott Harness]

Beretta 9mm with Crimson Trace laser sight
12G Defender shotgun by the bed:supercool

[Ascinder]

10mm=ultimate handgun round

[VX KAT]

OK, we're goin' look like nutjobs here, but here goes anyway.....
I hope PK still loves me after this....:goof:

We're a Beretta family. We really enjoy target/practice shooting for sport and it's something I can do. Since we have so many mountains around here, and so little population, there's plenty of places to go plinking safely in the woods/chapparel any time we want to, and it's free :thumbup:. Plus I get to go "off-roading" to get there....doubles the fun! So ironic that many of Beretta's guns are named from the big cat family. :thumbup:

Here's Beretta Kat's Cheetah collection: L-R: Cheetah 85BB, Cheetah 84FS, Cheetah 87, Cheetah 86. These are all straight blowbacks.
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSC_5406.JPG

Beretta Kat's Cheetah collection: top: 86 tip up (.380); bottom: 87 (22LR)
....and yes, as a matter of fact, they do make purple convoluted foam..how kool is that!! :bgwb:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSC_5674.JPG

Beretta Kat's Cheetah collection: 84FS Cheetah Two-tone, 85BB Cheetah Nickel (both chambered in .380)
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSC_5664.JPG


Dave's collection:
Rossi 851 38 special revolver (For Sale...anybody interested?)
Ruger LCR 38 special +P revolver
Next column:
Beretta 92FS-C Type M, Custom made Two-tone - 9mm
Beretta PX4 Storm Subcompact - 9mm
Beretta Titanium edition Tomcat (super rare, one of about 500 made) -.32 Auto ACP.
I just got this little bad boy for Dave's B-day and Xmas this week. It's his CC now....everybody see the School board shooting footage from Panama City, FL yesterday???....well Councilman Dave, er, um, I mean "The Senator" is prepared. Remember, AZ has the easiest, least restrictive gun laws in the country....many are carrying....Our town even passed an ordinance allowing guns in council meetings...:freek: Our next door town has bulletproof glass in front of council during meetings....:eek:

The Tomcat also comes in a Two-tone edition, which is my next purchase...then I'm done. :rollo:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSC_5636.JPG

Dave's Beretta family: 92FS-C Type M (9mm), Titanium Tomcat (.32 ACP), PX4 Storm Subcompact (9mm)
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSC_5654.JPG

[Triathlete]

Note to self...never show up at Sue's house unannounced!:bwgy:

VX crazy...for a nice little CC weapon that will easily fit in your smallest of purses you might check out the Kal-tec .32's (http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/pistols/p-32/). They have a cult like following, and you can get colors (pink, blue,...) and a grip with a belt clip built in.

[Ebenezr]

Hey VX CAT I really think you should consider getting a gun. Maybe a Beretta or something. Have you ever thought of this?

[workmeistr]

A guy cruises thru a stop sign and gets pulled over by a local policeman. Guy hands the cop his driver's license, , insurance verification, and registration.

The policeman notices a Concealed Carry Permit as the man was fishing out his drivers license. So the cop asks, "Are you carrying today?"

"Yes, I am."

"Well then, better tell me what you got."

The guy says, "Well, I got a .357 revolver in my inside coat pocket.

There's a 9mm semi-auto in the glove box. And, I've got a .22 magnum derringer in my right boot."

"Okay," the cop says. "anything else?"

"Yeah, back in the trunk, there's an AR15 and a shotgun. That's about it."

"The cop asks, are you on your way to or from a gun range...?"

"Nope."

"Well then, what are you afraid of...?"

"The guy responds, "Not a damn thing." :happyface

[VX crazy]

Billy, I KNOW, love the kal-tecs, just need to go shoot some first, I think they have a 40 caliber too, I had a 32 20yrs ago and just didnt like it....

[Y33TREKker]

Sig Sauer P230. I've had it for years and it's still my favorite carry. Nice size, and for a .380, packs a decent punch.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b338/nigroe/230.gif

[VX KAT]

Hey VX CAT I really think you should consider getting a gun. Maybe a Beretta or something. Have you ever thought of this?
You DO fit right in 'round here! :thumbup: :rotate:

Lisa- I've read the Kel-tec's have a pretty bad kick...'course that's very subjective. Maybe ask around. Ruger also makes a raspberry colored tiny semi auto..."LCP"...and Sig Mosquito comes in a pink version, but it's only a 22LR. Can ya believe I didn't buy either of these?:laugho:

[Hotsauce]

http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/5802/30926965.jpg

[orion]

I do have a carry permit.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/100_05641.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19509)
Bresa Thunder 380 CC with 25 round drum mag.



http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/100_0566.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19510)
AR 57 with 50 round mag. (zombie gun)

[Riff Raff]

10mm=ultimate handgun round

LOL.......no way, the ultimate handgun round is .50 Action Express (AE).

Yes, I carry daily with my AMT .380 Back-Up in a Galco Wallet Holster (designed to fire within the holster through a trigger finger hole). My T-shirt is always tucked-in, and I wear shorts in the Summer-- still, you'd never know I was packin'. My theory on concealed carry is if you can't draw and fire within 1-second, then it is not worth carrying. When I get dressed in the morning; the first thing I put on is my wristwatch, the second thing I grab is my wallet holster containing my AMT .380 Back-Up fully loaded with Black Talon bullets and one in the chamber.

My exotic handgun and rifle collection is far too extensive to list here on a public forum. However, some of my favorites are my vast collection of LAR Grizzly auto handguns in both .50 AE and .45 Win Mag. I call the LAR Grizzly a "Baby Howitzer".

:bgwb:

[Kenny]

JEEBUS!!:freek: u amerikanz...

me, i carry a snub nose with two clips.
http://www-2.toolbox.co.uk/dewalt-dc825kb-18v-impact-drill-driver-100852M.jpg
eh!

[RickOKC]

I carry, but I'm kind of a lightweight.

Still, you mess with me, I have the ability to make your glasses reeeally, really wobbly:

http://members.cox.net/radamsokc/knife.jpg

[Marlin]

I think I may have wet my pants laughing at Hot Sauces post.....LOLOLOLOLOLOL.

Kenny, you should get a less conspicuous weapon, you will never get that through any kind of checkpoint, that yellow just screams "I HAVE A WEAPON!!!!". :freek:

Maybe you should look at the hitachi version in classic jungle cammo, the exact same weapon, different skin, and you will save a few bucks too:


http://www.impactdriver.org/images/Hitachi_WH10DL-_Lithium_Ion_impact_driver.jpg

Might as well be completely prepared and get the whole collection, "When you absolutely, positively got to kill every mother****er in the room, accept no substitutes":

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51wpjYFsUNL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

[Ebenezr]

:mad: can figure how to post a pic

[Ldub]

:mad: can figure how to post a pic

Eb...buddy, learn to post pics...:yesgray:

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/kitty.jpg

[VX KAT]

:mad: can figure how to post a pic

HOW TO ATTACH PICS TO A POST & HOW TO EDIT AND ADD PICS TO A POST

~Start a post

~On right side -> it says "My Pics"...click Open

~A new window opens with your pics. At the top of the window there's a a blue header with a drop down box for selecting what size/type attachment...select "Original Image"...it will make the full size pic appear in post.

~You can put up to 20 pics in a single post.

~Separate each pic by a RETURN/ENTER or sometimes they'll end up just displaying left to right, instead of scrolling down....drives some of our members crazy to scroll sideways..

***SOMETIMES**** it won't attach a pic right after you've uploaded them. :_brickwal Don't know why. Sometimes it will about 2 hrs later, sometimes if I close out of the forum completely, then log back in, it will finally attach the new pics in a post. It's a mystery to me.

~You can go back to your post and delete your current attached pics....
~and edit it to attach the full size pics:
~hit EDIT
~then "Go advanced"
~then "My Pics"
~Make sure it's "original Image"
~select your pics by clicking on them.

[Ascinder]

LOL.......no way, the ultimate handgun round is .50 Action Express (AE).

:rolly::nogray:

[Ldub]

HOW TO ATTACH PICS TO A POST & HOW TO EDIT AND ADD PICS TO A POST

~Start a post

~On right side -> it says "My Pics"...click Open

~A new window opens with your pics. At the top of the window there's a a blue header with a drop down box for selecting what size/type attachment...select "Original Image"...it will make the full size pic appear in post.

~You can put up to 20 pics in a single post.

~Separate each pic by a RETURN/ENTER or sometimes they'll end up just displaying left to right, instead of scrolling down....drives some of our members crazy to scroll sideways..

***SOMETIMES**** it won't attach a pic right after you've uploaded them. :_brickwal Don't know why. Sometimes it will about 2 hrs later, sometimes if I close out of the forum completely, then log back in, it will finally attach the new pics in a post. It's a mystery to me.

~You can go back to your post and delete your current attached pics....
~and edit it to attach the full size pics:
~hit EDIT
~then "Go advanced"
~then "My Pics"
~Make sure it's "original Image"
~select your pics by clicking on them.

ORrrrrrr...:smilewink

http://www.vehicross.info/modules.php?name=FAQ&op=viewcategory&cid=7#38

Give a man a fish...:laughing:

[djvx]

I got a few, in my bunker. I sleep with a 9mm. Carry (if legal here)a Taurus Millenium .380 or Taurus 38 special. Always loaded with quality self defense ammo. My AK-47 is accessorized and is my favorite. BRING ON THE BAD GUYS!!

[crotchrocket]

You guys are all mad And Orion, you like your hi-cap mags don't you lol!!!

However i am just jelous as we arent allowed anything here, athough thats not a bad thing as road rage is just alot of shouting here, then you go your seperate ways instead of being dead lol

[BigSwede]

I don't carry often, large white guys don't get hassled much. But when I do, I carry a Kahr PM9. I am comfortable with 9mm, and the PM9 is tiny, if not quite as small as some of the .380s out there. I am very happy with it.

If the zombies come, I am grabbing my FN-FAL.

[PK]

OK, we're goin' look like nutjobs here, but here goes anyway.....
I hope PK still loves me after this....:goof:



I still loves ya Sue.
I just have to decide whether I should -

Start blowing my horn when I am 100 mile away, to let you know I'm coming.

OR

Wait until I wrap my arms around you from behind, and whisper in your ear.:p:yeso::yesb:

Guess it will be No 1 because I wouldn't get past those ferocious dogs of yours. (Or big Dave).

I do have some firm opinions on this topic, but won't bore everyone with them.

I will make a few observations -
I assume of course, that all of you carry for defensive reasons only.


1. Don't ever carry unless you have the resolve to use it if needed.
2. If you have to use it, aim for the central mass of the target. It is hard enough to hit something moving without being fancy with where you try and place the shot.
3. I have to agree with Riff (Wow - never thought I would say that), if you can't draw and fire your weapon in less than 1 second, you are carrying useless weight around. Try this, it is harder than you think.

Suffice to say that if I lived in America, I probably would carry.
Luckily I live in Australia, and with the lack of guns on the street, and my hand to hand combat training, I have zero need to live in fear.
If I am within 10 feet of someone, I can have them unconscious, or dead, within 2 seconds if I have to.

I don't hate guns, I just don't see the need for everyone to walk around armed to the teeth in a supposedly civilised society.
When in the bush (not hunting) I have my knives and special "camping tool", and of course, if I am hunting, I have my rifle, or shottie, which ever is appropriate.

PK

[Ebenezr]

Thank you Ldub for posting my kitty picture with the gun in the face that I stole from the internet and thank you VX KAT for showing me how :)

[spaceCADETzoom]

However i am just jelous as we arent allowed anything here, athough thats not a bad thing as road rage is just alot of shouting here, then you go your seperate ways instead of being dead lol
Yeah, so road rage defaults to the bigger, angrier guy in the UK then? Media hype aside, and contrary to fear mongering, motorists shooting other motorists because of road rage doesn't really happen. I mean, the homicidal driver is already in control of a 2ton vehicle...don't need a gun to kill anybody if so inclined.



Suffice to say that if I lived in America, I probably would carry.
Luckily I live in Australia, and with the lack of guns on the street, and my hand to hand combat training, I have zero need to live in fear.
If I am within 10 feet of someone, I can have them unconscious, or dead, within 2 seconds if I have to.

I don't hate guns, I just don't see the need for everyone to walk around armed to the teeth in a supposedly civilised society.
When in the bush (not hunting) I have my knives and special "camping tool", and of course, if I am hunting, I have my rifle, or shottie, which ever is appropriate.

PK
THat's funny, I'd think a civilized society would be one where you aren't afraid of your fellow citizens and their own private property? I, too have zero need to live in fear. I have not once open carried or concealed carried or have felt the need to carry any gun in any way throughout the US. I have zero fear of my fellow citizen, even if visibly armed. I find it terrible that anyone in a civilized society would.

...oh no, a terrible thought flashed through my head. I'm a little guy. What if there were big dudes with "hand to hand combat training" out there? I don't think that unsafe mastery of the oriental arts should be wielded by killers. What rational defense is there of having the knowledge to kill be in the skillset of my fellow civilized neighbors? FOr the children!

Sorry, soapbox. I just don't see why everyone doesn't adopt the live and let live approach in matters like these. If one neighbor doesn't like guns, and thinks its unsafe, why is it okay for him to legislate his neighbor's ability to buy one? Maybe, just maybe, opinions on guns shaped purely by action movies and news reports on violent incidents is not an adequate gauge on the issue? If you've never driven or even seen a car before, but were exposed to nothing but news on traffic related death and watched Death Race 2000 over and over again would your opinion on cars be similar? Fifty years from now, let's say technology comes to the point where anything can be done with public transportation 100% more safely and efficiently and to a point where there's no conceivable rational reason to "allow" private car ownership. Would you be defending your right to the private ownership of your VX? What would be your reasoning behind this, knowing the terrible, terrible statistic of death involved with widespread ownership of this death machine? What's that, you say? YOu've never killed anyone in your car? You're a responsible driver? Some freedom nonsense?

I dare say our vehicross contributes to more death in the long run collectively than every single board member's guns...

:) sorry,can of worms opened.

[Marlin]

I dare say our vehicross contributes to more death in the long run collectively than every single board member's guns...

:) sorry,can of worms opened.

Well said, and so it is with the rest of our freedoms we give up. Once we give away one, it seems so much easier to give away the others.

As for the more deaths, I assume you aren't counting zombies?

[VX KAT]

I still loves ya Sue.
I just have to decide whether I should -

Start blowing my horn when I am 100 mile away, to let you know I'm coming.

OR

Wait until I wrap my arms around you from behind, and whisper in your ear.:p:yeso::yesb:

Guess it will be No 1 because I wouldn't get past those ferocious dogs of yours. (Or big Dave).

I don't hate guns, I just don't see the need for everyone to walk around armed to the teeth in a supposedly civilised society.
When in the bush (not hunting) I have my knives and special "camping tool", and of course, if I am hunting, I have my rifle, or shottie, which ever is appropriate.

PK

I got a bit dishearted about society after living in Los Angeles/Long Beach for 15 yrs, (especially during the 1991 Rodney King riots) and saw way too many bad & sad things....some within 2 miles of our home.....:(

I think maybe since the U.S. had to fight for our country's independence, and fought ourselves in the Civil War, that guns, and gun ownership has carried over into our national psyche, which is even reflected in our Constitution (2nd Amendment).

I really admire societies like AUS and CAN that seem to have a less "gun crazy" culture. But I'm not naive enough to believe that outlawing guns in the U.S. would completely solve the problem, as I believe there's some truth in the old adage if you "outlaw guns...only outlaws will have guns".


I don't carry as I don't want to live under that constant "fear of bad guys" mentality, plus I fully realize I'm incapable of drawing in a "reasonable" amount of time. I do it completely for sport & activity, and fun. It gets me out into the woods and mountains, I get to go off-roading to get there, plus I can do it sitting in a lawn chair when needed. :goof:


Ah, you must be referring to my "8lbs of sheer terror" Pomeranian! Now how could you not love this sweet little doggie? Oh, just remember not to get a corndog anywhere near him....:rollo: :laugho:


And oh yeah PK, ....I vote for #2 above! :thumbup: ;)

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSC_5041.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSC_4747.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSC_0456.JPG

[Bulldoggie]

I haven't had a gun since before I was married. I was at too much risk of having them used on me. :yeso:

It didn't stop the risk of getting stabbed in my sleep

[BigSwede]

Luckily I live in Australia, and with the lack of guns on the street, and my hand to hand combat training, I have zero need to live in fear. If I am within 10 feet of someone, I can have them unconscious, or dead, within 2 seconds if I have to.
What about those folks who don't have "hand to hand combat training", or the physical aptitude to even use it, such as the elderly, small women, handicapped, etc.? How do they defend themselves? Or are they at the mercy of the good will of people such as you?

[Marlin]

Ijust got a lead on a Kel-tek 380. Brand new, 3 extra magazines, gun safe, 200 bucks. The guy bought it for his wife for a Bday present in the summer, now they are getting divorced. SHe never even fired it. Sounds like a good xmas present for the wife:) Thanks for the lead on the Kel-teks Billy.:bgwb:

[PK]

What about those folks who don't have "hand to hand combat training", or the physical aptitude to even use it, such as the elderly, small women, handicapped, etc.? How do they defend themselves? Or are they at the mercy of the good will of people such as you?

Same thing as if you are not the quickest to draw and shoot I guess - you loose.
But at least here, 99.5% of the time, all you are likely to loose is a verbal argument, or a fist fight - not your life.

Don't get me wrong guys - I am not totally against guns, or your rights to carry them in your country if you want.
I especially recognise Sue's point - we have never had to fight a war on our own soil, or against each other. That would have embedded a need to carry a gun for decades.

I just feel sorry that you still feel the need to do so.
Okay I have my training, but I received that training for a purpose and I still carry it in my civilian life.
Although I have to 'fess up here and admit it was a fair while ago, and I am not as fast and agile as I used to be.

As an outsider to your country, I would never have the cheek to suggest your laws should be changed (except maybe which side of the road you drive on, and catching up to the rest of the world to the metric system).

Crap - now I've gone done it - where is that flame proof smiley??:flame2::flame::whiteflag::whiteflag::whit eflag::flower:

PK

[Marlin]

As an outsider to your country, I would never have the cheek to suggest your laws should be changed (except maybe which side of the road you drive on, and catching up to the rest of the world to the metric system).

Crap - now I've gone done it - where is that flame proof smiley??:flame2::flame::whiteflag::whiteflag::whit eflag::flower:

PK

You are 100% right on the metric thing....but driving on the other side of the road?!! You guys are just weird. You can keep your kangaroo sack storage pouches as well!!!

I spent a few days in Brisbane, went to the australia zoo, was molested by a Koala bear, went to all kinds of places out in the glass mountain area (not sure the actual town names, but lots of wineries, shopping...)
I saw more kangaroo sack tourist souvenirs than I could have imagined. Of course I bought a few of em:rolleyes: Keep your valuables dry with a seamless leather pouch!!! How can one resist that?

Back to the guns, if your people don't have guns, how could you ever possibly overthrow your government if you needed to? If they have the only weapons, it sounds like an easy step to tyranny and dictatorship with no hope of retaliation?

[jmassa]

I too have a Walther PPK/s, but I prefer my Colt Commander and matching Thompson M1A1.

[BigSwede]

I just feel sorry that you still feel the need to do so.
Although I have the permit to carry, I really never do. 95% of the Minneapolis-St. Paul metropolitan area (population of about 3 million) is "safe", and even the other 5% isn't that bad until after dark.

Having said that, I know there are other metro areas elsewhere that are not so lucky.

I guess I just feel that guns are a great equalizer for those who are not physically able to defend themselves, and as Marlin said, a means of deterring government tyranny.

[VXIRONwoMAN]

I carry a 241mm Merona...

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/backpack.jpg

And I have a fire-poker on the side of my bed...:bgwb:

There are too many rules in Chicago. I almost got my CCW when I lived in Vegas, but then I was moving to IL and haven't done anything because we weren't allowed to register handguns in the city up until a month or so ago. I hate this city. Texas here I come!

[Marlin]

There are too many rules in Chicago. I almost got my CCW when I lived in Vegas, but then I was moving to IL and haven't done anything because we weren't allowed to register handguns in the city up until a month or so ago. I hate this city. Texas here I come!

I am going to be honest, I never would have guessed you would carry a gun!!! Good for you. Some parts of Texas are awesome, and I would love to retire in that area.
I heard that there are still places you can homestead there?

[Ldub]

And I have a fire-poker on the side of my bed...:bgwb:


And his name is Gill...:laughing:

:heart: you two Chicaganites, good yakkin' witcha...:yes:

[ibmx2]

It used to be this, but it proved to be impractical, because I kept drinking the ammo :drool2:
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6583/25146294.jpg (http://img98.imageshack.us/i/25146294.jpg/)


So looking for something more practical. I found this to be a better solution

And though I lost 15 pounds and water weight. Again 20 in gun:_confused

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/1975/96194952.jpg (http://img196.imageshack.us/i/96194952.jpg/)

[crotchrocket]

I had a go with a glock once..........a very shakey go lol :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRRouCQGx1c

[Riff Raff]

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/1975/96194952.jpg (http://img196.imageshack.us/i/96194952.jpg/)




This image caught my curiosity. After a thorough search on the internet, I discovered the above pictured weapon is a total hoax and doesn't exist. Further, the official Barrett Arms website indicate that they only manufacture "rifles" (namely .50 BMG cal Sniper Rifles), and do not manufacture any kind of handgun/pistol platform weapons. Keep dreamin'.:rollo:

[crotchrocket]

This image caught my curiosity. After a thorough search on the internet, I discovered the above pictured weapon is a total hoax and doesn't exist. Further, the official Barrett Arms website indicate that they only manufacture "rifles" (namely .50 BMG cal Sniper Rifles), and do not manufacture any kind of handgun/pistol platform weapons. Keep dreamin'.:rollo:



LOL :D

[nfpgasmask]

Only 2 comments from me.

1) I don't have my CCW, but out in "the bush" I carry a FN P9.

2) I think you guys mean "Kel-tec", not "Kal-tec", and from personal experience, I would STAY AWAY from cheap and weird guns in general. Its only $200 for a reason. Maybe Kel-Tec has improved since their Grendel days, but I have owned a few Grendel/Kel-tec guns and NEVER have I owned bigger pieces (no pun intended) of jamming junk. Learning from the experiences I have had with weird "off brand" guns in general, I know one thing: I will stick to the bigger, well known, tried and true names. When it comes to firearms, safety is paramount. Reliability is #2. If the gun jams more than it fires, or if it is finicky with ammo, I don't want anything to do with it. My gun needs to shoot cheap Russian surplus the same as it does high dollar match ammo, or I don't want it. And when you're talking concealed carry, why on earth would you want a cheap gun that is prone to jamming/misfiring?

Bart

[taylorRichie]

I like guns... I have a few of them.

I have my CCW but don't carry.

I think gun laws keep guns out of the hands of law abiders, but place them in the hands of criminals.

Penn and Teller did a great episode on Bull****! about gun laws.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCXtfR0_roE

Posing this idea.

All women (since women are the ones generally preyed upon) should be government issued a handgun that they are required to carry, and that would take care of 95% of the gun crimes.

Who wants to mess with an armed woman. Not I. :D

If everyone knew everyone else was armed, no one would want to mess with anyone. Guns... the great equalizer.

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

had....key word being HAD....an AMT .30 Carbine AutoMag III by Irwindale Arms for like 10 years and sold it during my last serious relationship (she hated guns).


OH the pain...the pain...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_abaJ0xbRju4/SeXTUOLCGyI/AAAAAAAABMs/Qa7BQRjJyQo/s400/AMT+Automag+III+.30+carbine.jpg

contrary to some of the bad press AMT has gotten...mine performed flawlessly on either new or surplus ammo.

[spaceCADETzoom]

Don't get me wrong guys - I am not totally against guns, or your rights to carry them in your country if you want.
...

I just feel sorry that you still feel the need to do so.


I guess my point was lost...but why are you afraid of your fellow citizen, human being, at all? I feel sorry you feel that you don't trust your neighbor enough to buy a simple inanimate object in a civilized society. I trust my fellow citizen, and I think that's a measure of a civilized society. I have no inherent mistrust in my neighbor and find it sad others do.

[djvx]

Only 2 comments from me.

1) I don't have my CCW, but out in "the bush" I carry a FN P9.

2) I think you guys mean "Kel-tec", not "Kal-tec", and from personal experience, I would STAY AWAY from cheap and weird guns in general. Its only $200 for a reason. Maybe Kel-Tec has improved since their Grendel days, but I have owned a few Grendel/Kel-tec guns and NEVER have I owned bigger pieces (no pun intended) of jamming junk. Learning from the experiences I have had with weird "off brand" guns in general, I know one thing: I will stick to the bigger, well known, tried and true names. When it comes to firearms, safety is paramount. Reliability is #2. If the gun jams more than it fires, or if it is finicky with ammo, I don't want anything to do with it. My gun needs to shoot cheap Russian surplus the same as it does high dollar match ammo, or I don't want it. And when you're talking concealed carry, why on earth would you want a cheap gun that is prone to jamming/misfiring?

Bart I owned a Grendel .380. semi auto- rare for it to Jam. I owned a Kel-Tec folding 9mm Carbine (it folded in half!) That gun was the smoothest fastest most accurate weapon I ever shot. You could hit a quarter with open sights at a moderate distance. Groupings were amazing. I sold the Grendel because it's grip wasn't big enuf' for my hand. I sold the Kel-Tec because it looked like a fake gun. A lot of guns are sensitive to ammo(just like you stated)as well as lubrication, cleanliness and limp wristing when shooting. I've got 2 Tauruses that shoot flawlessly. They're another Mfg. that gets a bad wrap but there Guns are excellent imo:_mecker:, as is there lifetime warranty. I prefer brand new guns when it comes to personal protection though.
Savage rifles also get ripped on, yet they make some of the most accurate and smoothest shooting big guns out there, and at a decent price. Sometime it's what ya can afford. :winky:

[djvx]

[QUOTE=PK;214548]Same thing as if you are not the quickest to draw and shoot I guess - you loose.
But at least here, 99.5% of the time, all you are likely to loose is a verbal argument, or a fist fight - not your life.

Hey I thought Australians all carried those big 'ol Bowie Knives...Or did I see that in a movie once...:?:

[JHarris1385]

I got a Savage .22 as my first gun....and it has been great. Very accurate.

[Gizmo42]

I got in on this late and didnt read through all the other posts lol. I dont conceal carry yet since I havent gone for my class and permit yet. But when I do I already have what I'll be carrying.

Ruger SR9 Compact. Its 1/2" shorter barrel and 1" shorter grip (with 10 rd mag) then the standard SR9. Loaded with Hydra Shock rounds.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c337/Gizmo420/guns/IMG_0769.jpg

For home defense and open carry while camping I have a Ruger KP944 .40 cal loaded with Hydra Shock rounds.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c337/Gizmo420/guns/IMG_0771.jpg

If I didnt already have the 944 I would get a Ruger SR40 which they just came out with. A .40 cal version of the full size SR9. The SR9c has a bit more snap then the 944 but its more controllable and much lighter and easier to conceal.

I havent become a fan of the pocket pistols yet. I've fired Mikes (protetype) LCP and it hurts my hand. Maybe one day I'll get one anyway. As a side note, the LCP is the exact same size and shape as the Kel-Tec P-3AT. I would rather have the Ruger.

My other toys

Ruger 10/22 - many internal mods
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c337/Gizmo420/guns/Img_0365-1.jpg

Remington 572 pump action .22
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c337/Gizmo420/guns/Img_0369.jpg

Ruger Single Six .22 LR/WMR
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c337/Gizmo420/guns/Img_0583e.jpg

Western Field (Marlin) bolt action 12 gauge shotty
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c337/Gizmo420/guns/IMG_0804e.jpg

I'm on the hunt for more Rugers. I still want a new model (580 series) Mini-14, a Mini-30, PC9 (9mm) rifle, and PC4 (.40 cal) rifle.

[Triathlete]

Hey I thought Australians all carried those big 'ol Bowie Knives...Or did I see that in a movie once...:?:

"Thats not a knife..." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01NHcTM5IA4) :bwgy:

[Marlin]

Western Field (Marlin) bolt action 12 gauge shotty
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c337/Gizmo420/guns/IMG_0804e.jpg

That Marlin is gorgeous, and not just because its my screen name...lol.

[JHarris1385]

So what do you all have to say about the super cheap Hi-Points?

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemListing.aspx?sort=priceLow&pagesize=1000&catid=3975

A 9mm for roughly a $100 can't be good can it?

[Gizmo42]

So what do you all have to say about the super cheap Hi-Points?

They are ok for range time if you dont mind getting pissed off at malfunctions or want anything accurate. I wouldnt use one for concealed carry and trust my life to it.


That Marlin is gorgeous, and not just because its my screen name...lol.

I've always loved the stock on that shotty. I inherited it from my dad and it hadnt been shot in over 30 yrs. Took it out this summer and it works great. Took that pic right after I got done refinishing the stock.

[Marlin]

I've always loved the stock on that shotty. I inherited it from my dad and it hadnt been shot in over 30 yrs. Took it out this summer and it works great. Took that pic right after I got done refinishing the stock.

Well made weapons are pretty amazing. There was a kid at the range that had his grandfather's old japanese rifle. Hadn't been fired in 40 or 50 years. Still had ammo from back then as well. he was scared to death to shoot it. We finally talked him into firing it off of a rest, worked fine. Very neat rifle.

[djvx]

So what do you all have to say about the super cheap Hi-Points?

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemListing.aspx?sort=priceLow&pagesize=1000&catid=3975

A 9mm for roughly a $100 can't be good can it?

I see alot of Hi-Points at the gun shows, I never owned one. Google it or see if there is a Hi-Point owners forum. Ruger Makes nice middle of the road priced 9mms. You might find one out there for $250.00 or less. They're very reliable. Cheaperthandirt.com is a good place to look so your on the right track.

[JHarris1385]

What do you all think about 9mm vs. .380 ammo?

I have for some reason always liked .380 guns versus 9mm, but that is probably because of James Bond using a PPK and my dad owning a PPK/S as well.



Another topic. Have you seen/heard about the .22 conversion for Ar-15s? With a blackdog 50 round mag?
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ARR059-7.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOA_SJBlFoc

[Ldub]

I think that the ultimate supressor for an AR would be...:yesgray:

http://www.tac15.com/images/tac_10i_solo.jpg

http://www.tac15.com/overview.htm

Wait for it to load, snoop the site, & see what you think...:naughty:

That, & the fact that they use "whisker biscuit" in their ad text...:smilewink

[VX KAT]

Ruger SR9 Compact. Its 1/2" shorter barrel and 1" shorter grip (with 10 rd mag) then the standard SR9. Loaded with Hydra Shock rounds.

The SR9c has a bit more snap then the 944 but its more controllable and much lighter and easier to conceal.



One of our friends just got a SR9c about 2 months ago and we tried it. We both liked it a lot. Didn't think the recoil was that bad at all.


What do you all think about 9mm vs. .380 ammo?

Well, one thing, the .380 ammo is a bit more expensive than 9mm :(

Other impressions....3 of my Berettas are .380s, and I shoot with them most of the time. Dave built a metal target stand out of some angle iron, shaped kind of like an easel. First time out with it, we both had one round hit the flat horizontal metal cross member (about 1/8"+ thick x 1" wide).....and we both were using FMJ rounds. I was blown away at the difference in damage between the .380 and his 9mm. Mine was a dimple that didn't deform the plane. While his didn't go through the metal, it left a deep deformation that also bent the bar quite a bit.

OTOH....I was watching one of those real ER shows the other night, & it got me thinking..... Guy comes in with a .22 LR shot to the butt sideways, went through both cheeks, & was basically incapacitated.

Then I thought back to the many other episodes of this show I've watched with GSWs....Usually just a single shot, to somewhere on the body or chest...and they're still basically incapacitated, no matter what caliber. So it made me think that if I ever have to, god forbid, pump a .22, or a .380 or even our new .32 auto into a bad dude...it's still going to hurt like hell and will probably slow them down and maybe even get me a 2nd shot in them.

So while the 9mm did cause a much larger impact zone & expansion, with more force.....the .380 and even the smaller calibers are going to hurt somebody pretty dang good!

And besides, now Dave has to fix the stand since his 9mm bent it up. :laugho:

[JHarris1385]

What have you heard that drives the .380 ammo up so much?

Thats how I feel...if I was ever going to have to use my gun in defense, i doubt the difference in stopping power will really make a difference. Now that is not saying I would rely on my .22 vs. .380, but I assume the majority of people will go down after being shot. I could bet I would.

[Hotsauce]

The gun left at home because it showed too much through your clothes has no stopping power.

.380's are a much slimmer frame, and when 'melted' really print much less through your clothes.

John C.

[Riff Raff]

The gun left at home because it showed too much through your clothes has no stopping power.

.380's are a much slimmer frame, and when 'melted' really print much less through your clothes.

John C.

x2. My point exactly!!!

What's the difference between 9mm & .380 ACP (aka 9mm Short or Stubby)??? Mainly; velocity, because the 9mm has a longer jacket casing therefore contains more gun powder to increase velocity. The 9mm & .380 ACP share the exact same bullet. The 9mm may be a better round at a greater distance due to its velocity, but the .380 ACP will kill you just the same as a 9mm at close combat range. In fact, the 9mm may even go through the person and cause collateral damage hurting an innocent bystander.

For the sake of argument, personal carry guns are meant for close combat range (when you are threatened by a robber/mugger in close quarters). If you are trying to pick off your threat (robber/mugger) at long range; then you are now in an offensive sniper mode, not defensive (and YOU need to be arrested). If you are in a long distance fire fight with gunfire, then you need to seek cover and call the frickin' Police!!!

For close combat range stopping power, ease of concealability as a pocket pistol during the Summer, and overall lightweight-- the .380 ACP caliber is a hands down winner over the 9mm (afterall they use the same exact bullet). My ammunition of choice is the exotic .380 ACP Black Talon bullets used only as defensive carry rounds (never for plinking). If you're gonna' carry any caliber bigger than .380, then you might as well carry a .45 ACP (perhaps a small Para-Ordnance WartHog in .45 ACP). Just my 2-cents.

:bgwb:

[Triathlete]

What do you all think about 9mm vs. .380 ammo?

One reason a lot of law enforcement agencies stopped using 9mm is you need to be aware of what is beyond the target. 9mm tends to go through and continue to travel beyond the target (person) and do collateral damage. We switched to .40cal. Does not kick to bad and will stop what you hit.

[FlyingV77]

Its all about shot placement. a .22 will stop some one faster than a .45 if the .22 hits the right spot, and the .45 doesnt.

example: a security officer i know carries a .45. he had to use it about 2 months ago. the first two rounds were torso hits, one cracked a rib, the other was in and out near the coller bone. the third hit did the most damage, as it severd the femoral artery, causing the loss of the leg. he lived.

Befor you ask, it was a justified shooting.

I would tell you what or if i carry anything But Big Brother is watching this site ;)

[JHarris1385]

I am pleased with the responses. That is my logic in the 9mm vs. .380. I assume I am not the only one that has heard something negative with my choice of .380 over 9mm. All it is is a shorter bullet and all I say is James Bond carries a PPK.

Now I wish .380 ammo was cheaper. Why is it higher and harder to find?

[BigSwede]

.380 manufacturing is starting to catch up with demand. It still costs more than 9mm, but prices are coming down. With all the .380s being sold these days they will definitely be increasing production.

As far as concealability, I wonder if you guys have ever handled a Kahr PM9 or Keltec PF9? I have a PM9, and it is hard to imagine needing anything much smaller than that.

Regarding overpenetration of 9mm, are you guys using ball ammo? I don't think a hollow point would go through a body, unless clothing clogged the hollow point so it didn't expand properly.

[fotomaker]

I am pleased with the responses. That is my logic in the 9mm vs. .380. I assume I am not the only one that has heard something negative with my choice of .380 over 9mm. All it is is a shorter bullet and all I say is James Bond carries a PPK.

Now I wish .380 ammo was cheaper. Why is it higher and harder to find?

James Bond is a fictional character and not a ballistics expert.
And, by the way, Bond originally carried a .32, not a .380.

Today he carries a P99, which is available in 9mm and .40 cal.

.45 and .40 are hands down the best ACP defense cartridges.

If I were carrying and expected I might need to use it, I'd carry a .40.
If I were carrying, "just in case", I'd carry a .380 PPK/s with something like Black Talons.

[BigSwede]

Bond originally carried a .32, not a .380.
That's what I thought, too.

[tom4bren]

Y'all are just a little scary sometimes.:)

[BigSwede]

Ah, the wonders of the internet: "The guns of James Bond" http://www.vincelewis.net/bond.html

[Triathlete]

BigS...we carried "Ranger" rounds which were manufactured for LE use. That helped but I think it became more of a legal issue than anything else and they didn't want to take any chances...so, when it came time for new equipment our department went with the 40's...Glock of course.:bwgy:


As far as knock down power and round placement...all my training (LE and military) was 2 to the chest 1 to the head. That usually "stops" them.:yesy:

[BigSwede]

As far as knock down power and round placement...all my training (LE and military) was 2 to the chest 1 to the head. That usually "stops" them.:yesy:
Well sure...assuming you have time to deliver those three shots on target even a .22 will work fine.:yesy:

[Triathlete]

The first 2 should slow him down enough to make the head shot easy!:bwgy:

[JHarris1385]

Less recoil on a .22 could prove to be more accurate too.


Ok looks like I was off in the caliber of PPK of Bond's, but at least it was even smaller. I had no idea he was a fictional character. Since when foto?

Pretty sure I am going to stick with a PK380 as my next buy. Probably here in the next week or so. I do like the Springfield XD-40s though.

[Gizmo42]

9mm has been around for a long time and lots of supply/demand. 380 has never been as popular until recently. Thats why 9mm has always been easier to find and cheaper. If you are over penetrating with a 9mm you are using the wrong ammo. A defense round should expand (mushroom) quickly. Which provides more stopping power and decreases the likelihood of over penetration.


One of our friends just got a SR9c about 2 months ago and we tried it. We both liked it a lot. Didn't think the recoil was that bad at all.

The recoil isnt bad at all. And really its no more then the P944 .40 cal. It just feels a bit sharper. Mostly because the SR9c is much smaller and lighter (polymer frame vs aluminum) then the .40. Its much less then with an LCP .380 which hurts my hand when I fire one.

A .22 can kill just as well as any other round. Shot placement is much more important though and doesnt have the immediate stopping power of a larger caliber. We recently had twins try to kill themselves at the shooting range across the street from me in a suicide pact. Both shot themselves in the head with .22s they rented. One died immediately, the other lived and walked out of the hospital about a week later.

[VX KAT]

L I do like the Springfield XD-40s though.
Have you seen the Springfield EMP? It's a "mini" 1911, in 9mm, .40 or .45
Saw one at the local gun shop about 2 months ago, it's purdy and felt great. They're going for over $1,100 :freek: The reviews are terrific. Maybe next year....:rollo:

It's similar in general size to my Beretta Cheetahs...which many complain are too large for CC, but since that's not what I do with them, it's fine, since they fit my hand perfectly.
http://www.m1911.org/ezine/SAemp.htm
http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?version=110

[Ascinder]

Then I thought back to the many other episodes of this show I've watched with GSWs....Usually just a single shot, to somewhere on the body or chest...and they're still basically incapacitated, no matter what caliber. So it made me think that if I ever have to, god forbid, pump a .22, or a .380 or even our new .32 auto into a bad dude...it's still going to hurt like hell and will probably slow them down and maybe even get me a 2nd shot in them.

When my dad worked security for the Hilton here in town, I remember him telling us about a guy stumbling into the club with seven rounds of 9mm in him. Just walked right in, barely even bleeding. Granted ammo has a lot to do with it, but that soured me on 9mm ever since. To me 9mm seems like a round meant to wound similar to .223/5.56(AR-15/M-16 ammo). I'm not bloodthirsty, but if it comes down to it, I'm simply not out to wound people/large aggressive animals.


The gun left at home because it showed too much through your clothes has no stopping power.

.380's are a much slimmer frame, and when 'melted' really print much less through your clothes.

That's simply because many .380 are single stack clips vs. many 9mms being double stack. unless you go around in a bikini, speedo, or spandex clothing, I don't see where the problem is concealing these. I can fit a HUGE HK USP in a cargo pants pocket and it's pretty invisible.


For the sake of argument, personal carry guns are meant for close combat range (when you are threatened by a robber/mugger in close quarters).

For the sake of continuing the argument, I disagree. If you live where I do and go hiking, camping, etc, you tend to go where the critters are. Most bears aren't going to notice when you pull out your dinky little .380 and proceed to fire off some glorified rubber bands at them. Yes, I do concealed carry hiking as most people(especially californians) get weird/overly spooked if they see a gun on your hip. Also, for close quarters you have got to be kidding me. Have you heard of the 21 foot rule? What mugger or robber mugs you from 21 feet away. Guns are simply not good close quarters response weapons.


If you are trying to pick off your threat (robber/mugger) at long range; then you are now in an offensive sniper mode, not defensive (and YOU need to be arrested).

If someone threatens myself or the general public in that manner and I have the chance to stop them by any means, I'll gladly be arrested for it. I'd rather be alive and have a clear conscience in jail, than be either dead or have to live with doing nothing and letting them get away to harm others in the future.


If you are in a long distance fire fight with gunfire, then you need to seek cover and call the frickin' Police!!!

If you have a gun that can take them out from a distance and they're carrying something that can't(likely), then firefight's over and you call the morgue.


One reason a lot of law enforcement agencies stopped using 9mm is you need to be aware of what is beyond the target. 9mm tends to go through and continue to travel beyond the target (person) and do collateral damage. We switched to .40cal. Does not kick to bad and will stop what you hit.

40 cal is awesome I love how it shoots and how it feels shooting, one of the reasons you guys started using is also it because female FBI agents couldn't handle the 10mm(basically 40 cal magnum, same bullet though). I've owned .40, .45, and 10mm pistols, and .40 is a nice snappy round. I only went to my 10mm once I saw my buddy who had been nagging me about them shoot his at the range. It's basically a handheld carbine. Ridiculous flat trajectory just like the .40, but accurate out to a solid 2-300 yards. No joke, the 10 is a reach out and touch someone round.


Its all about shot placement. a .22 will stop some one faster than a .45 if the .22 hits the right spot, and the .45 doesnt.

example: a security officer i know carries a .45. he had to use it about 2 months ago. the first two rounds were torso hits, one cracked a rib, the other was in and out near the coller bone. the third hit did the most damage, as it severd the femoral artery, causing the loss of the leg. he lived.

Befor you ask, it was a justified shooting.

I agree to a point. The impact trauma of a large caliber bullet which doesn't overpenetrate is far higher than a small caliber. This really applies with large animals. You aren't taking down boars or bears with a 22 and probably not mountain lions either unless you are super sniper extraordinaire(probably not even then though). Also, that security guard needs better ammo or accuracy. Three hits with a .45 should be enough to take out anyone.



Regarding overpenetration of 9mm, are you guys using ball ammo? I don't think a hollow point would go through a body, unless clothing clogged the hollow point so it didn't expand properly.

Bingo. If you are over-penetrating, it's usually fixable by playing with your ammo. Use frangible for maximum benefit.


.45 and .40 are hands down the best ACP defense cartridges.

I like your style.


If I were carrying and expected I might need to use it, I'd carry a .40.
If I were carrying, "just in case", I'd carry a .380 PPK/s with something like Black Talons.

I don't think that's a mindset I can wrap my head around. If I'm carrying, I'm always planning on using it. If I don't have to, so much the better.


Y'all are just a little scary sometimes.

Don't be scared, we're the good guys........hehehe


As far as knock down power and round placement...all my training (LE and military) was 2 to the chest 1 to the head. That usually "stops" them.

I prefer to stop them with lead poisoning, but I guess in this economy you have a point.:D


A .22 can kill just as well as any other round. Shot placement is much more important though and doesnt have the immediate stopping power of a larger caliber. We recently had twins try to kill themselves at the shooting range across the street from me in a suicide pact. Both shot themselves in the head with .22s they rented. One died immediately, the other lived and walked out of the hospital about a week later.

With .22s? That sound more like a cry for help than a real attempt. I think the one that actually pulled it off might have just gotten lucky.

In the end, it's what you're willing to compromise with. I didn't buy my 10mm for using as a CCW gun, but that doesn't mean the two are mutually exclusive. You'd be surprised how many ideas you come up with to carry it even in warm weather. I also didn't buy it to be a range gun, but it still does well there too. It also works great as a hiking gun, or even as a survival weapon since you can actually hunt with it. For me, I like a large handle to hold onto, the bigger the better, but that's what suits me. If you can't be comfortable with the gun just holding it at the gun store, you sure as hell aren't going to be comfortable or accurate when it comes time to actually start using it. As you can tell, I'm not a big fan of the smaller calibers. Have you ever tried pounding in a tent stake with a spoon? There's the right tool for the job for a reason. That being said, if I was someone who just had to run a small caliber weapon, then I'd invest in two additional things as well: Combat shooting lessons, and a good backup plan. There's no better way to find out just how good/bad your junk is until to test the actual bullet and weapon combination in real world scenarios. I've heard countless stories of "high end" ammunition not doing it's job. That includes "black talon", cor-bon, gold dot and whatever other whizz-bang ultra tactical stuff you stick in your gun. The proof's in the pudding. Take it out with a stack of phonebooks and see what penetrates, what doesn't and what the bullets are actually doing(flattening,expanding, blowing apart, etc or none of the above). Someone also mentioned before about certain brands or types of bullets jamming or failing to feed. After bringing my 10mm out to shoot with Bart awhile back, I learned that it doesn't like Winchester Super-X silvertip hollowpoints. It wouldn't shoot quite a few of them. Now I don't use them. It has shot everything else flawlessly since though. You need to use your weapon enough to become familiar with it's quirks and nuances. A jammed round will kill you just as fast as leaving your gun at home or using too small of a round to get the job done. Yes you can kill a person with a bb gun, but if you think your casual shooting self is going to get that lucky, you are so wrong it's not even funny. Use a gun you can afford to miss with(not completely) because when it comes time to whip it out to shoot and you are already spooked by whatever caused it to be brought out, and the adrenaline's pumping, that golden bb theory disappears entirely.

[stangri]

A few years ago there was a long report written by a retired coroner who listed average number of bullets of different caliber he'd found in bodies he worked on. I don't remember specifics but the summary is that you don't want anything which doesn't start with .4 as your self-defence weapon.

[FlyingV77]

5.7

[Bob Barker]

How can you rent a pistol? I've never heard of such outside of firing ranges!

[Gizmo42]

How can you rent a pistol? I've never heard of such outside of firing ranges!

Thats where they were at. There is a firing range in the state park across the street from where I live. They rented pistols there and were there a couple hours shooting targets then shot themselves.

Do a google search for "twins suicide pact" and you'll find lots of news stories about it.

[fotomaker]

40 cal is awesome I love how it shoots and how it feels shooting, one of the reasons you guys started using is also it because female FBI agents couldn't handle the 10mm(basically 40 cal magnum, same bullet though). I've owned .40, .45, and 10mm pistols, and .40 is a nice snappy round. I only went to my 10mm once I saw my buddy who had been nagging me about them shoot his at the range. It's basically a handheld carbine. Ridiculous flat trajectory just like the .40, but accurate out to a solid 2-300 yards. No joke, the 10 is a reach out and touch someone round.


I seem to remember reading that the .40 cal evolved from 10mm because 10mm pistols were being "shot out" in about 2000 firings.

The guns just couldn't stand up to the power of the ammo...
Thus the 10mm "short" was born.

[Ascinder]

Somewhat true, but newer designs fixed that failing. You rarely see problems with the modern Glocks and Witnesses vs. the old delta 10's and older glocks. The problem I heard about the most was the slide cracking due to hot 10mm loads. Manufacturers beefed up/redesigned the slides= problem solved. By then though, the 10's weren't mainstream and fell into handgun limbo. They are like a diamond in the rough though. If you like .40, you'll love 10! Finding affordable ammo outside of reloading can be a little tough though. It's fairly comparable with any magnum handgun ammo though. I look at it from the perspective of being able to reload it for what 9mm costs new. That way I load it up any way I want(hot, medium or mild) and with whatever bullet I want(slugs, hollowpoints, frangible, birdshot, heavy, light etc) and can even set it up subsonic if need be. I'm all about the mods:bwgy:

[Ldub]

and can even set it up subsonic if need be.

Shhhhhhhhhh....:smilewink

[Gizmo42]

Just to add to the confusion, Ruger just announce a new sub compact. Its a 9mm and the size is right in between the LCP and SR9 compact. Its about the size of a Taurus 709 and Kel-Tek P11.

http://ruger.com/products/lc9/models.html

http://ruger.com/products/lc9/images/3200.jpg

[BigSwede]

'Bout time...I won't be getting one because I already have the Kahr PM9, but it's nice to see more 9mm CC options. The Ruger looks a little bigger and heavier than the Kahr and the KelTec PF9. Should be worth considering though. Ruger generally makes good stuff.

[Gizmo42]

Its a tiny bit longer and heavier then the PM9 and about even with the PF9.

LC9
Length: 6.00"
Barrel Length: 3.12"
Width: 0.90"
Height: 4.50"
Weight: 17.10 oz.
Capacity: 7+1

Kahr PM9
Length O/A: 5.3"
Barrel Length: 3.0"
Height: 4.0"
Slide Width: .90"
Weight: Pistol 14 ounces, Magazine 1.9 ounces
Capacity: 6+1, 7+1 (magazine with grip extension)

Kel-TEc PF9
Length: 5.85 ”
Height: 4.3 “
Width: .88 “
Barrel Length: 3.1 ”
Weight unloaded: 12.7 oz
Loaded magazine: 2.8 oz
Capacity: 7+1

[iott2551]

I would suggest you take a look at the Walther PPS instead. It is slimmer (a plus for any cc gun) and it comes in 40 cal.

[BigSwede]

The PPS is fatter than any of those...it's 1.04" thick.

[Marlin]

I ended up picking out a walther P22 and a Sig Mosquito at the same time for the same price. I think the P22 shoots better, but it is picky on the ammo. The sig was significantly larger and heavier, but fired just about every type of round we put through it. I am taking the CCP class in a few weeks. Yippee! The wife really wants a left handed weapon, but they start at 1100 for the few that are available. She just needs to learn to use her index finger for the slide release, everything else is lefty friendly.

I also scored a charles daily 28" 20ga for a steal at my neighbor's garage sale. Brand new in the box, he has had it since 06, never fired. Now all I need are some incendiary rounds...

[nfpgasmask]

I think the P22 shoots better, but it is picky on the ammo.

Just curious, what ammo did you have trouble with? I have a P22 and it really has no issues with ammo from my experience.

Bart

[wekilled]

Usually an M4 with rails and 68 sight and M9 green Crimson Trace laser sight for sidearm.

.
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/Wekell_RPG_Wiley_-_Crop.jpg

Other than that just a few 440 stainless samurai swords by the bed, and a hooligan tool in my VX

[Marlin]

Just curious, what ammo did you have trouble with? I have a P22 and it really has no issues with ammo from my experience.

Bart

It did not like the winchester hollow points. I hat about 1000 of em for my little mossberg rifle. I had at least 10 failure to eject, or double chamber. I have read all the stuff about shaving down the entry to the barrel to prevent future problems. The sig had ZERO problems. Either way, I am happy and would buy the gun again. I managed to find the green one in a sporting goods store that offered military discount:) Good deal for me. My favorite round through the gun was the aguila supermax. I am always amazed at the underestimated power of a 22. That little pistol was putting the 22s through treated 2x4s at 10-15 yards. I also bought a box of the 22 shotshells. Pretty neat, would be great for snakes at close range. I am confident that I could shoot a person in a jacket at 15 feet and you would have no penetration...lol. Thats what she said....sorry, couldn't help it.

[WormGod]

Last month, picked up CHEAP, an Eotech 553 and MPO III magnifier for my AR. I have yet to hit a range this year so looking forward to zero'ing in and getting my spring/summer plinking session going.

Similar to picture, but not exact models....

http://www.rainierarms.com/img/shop/product/95db340776783453b3a5b968c72e80ac.jpg

[housertl]

Glock 34 with the grip chopped to 19 length. Turns regular pressure ammo into +P. Plus I love the look on people's faces when I make "imposible" 100 yard pistol hits, offhand.

[BigSwede]

How does chopping the grip increase the power of the ammunition??

[nfpgasmask]

Bought a Mosin Nagant the other day. Love it. Nothing like 7.62x54r for $120. :evil: I love old school guns.

:) Bart

[VX KAT]

How does chopping the grip increase the power of the ammunition??
:_thinking I was wondering that myself....:_thinking

[Triathlete]

How does chopping the grip increase the power of the ammunition??

Kind of like a butt-dyno senses the extra 5 horsepower you get by installing a cold air intake!:bwgy:

[spaceCADETzoom]

How does chopping the grip increase the power of the ammunition??

...scratched my head for a second too...but I think he meant he gets the benefit of the extra barrel length of the 34 (vs. the 17).
HOnestly, I think that reasoning is faulty, too, though. I don't know if 9mm benefits much from longer barrels and extra twist. Maybe in a 16 in carbine, but even there: without the numbers to back it up, I"m thinking 16 in would be wasteful for an inherently slow (pistol caliber) round. But we're not talking about anything near that. Again, with nothing to back this up, but the glock 34 is marketed for "accuracy" or shooting sports because of the longer sight radius. THe extra barrel length benefits, I guess,but I don't think to such a great degree of laying to the "+p" claim. Besides, in such a case, wouldn't that argument be moot? WHy bring something with such a long barrel for self defense if it isn't a rifle? the 34 isn't for home defense, but for target shooters. What would the push for +p rounds be other than SD?

Just my unqualified 2 cents, BTW. Unsolicited. I'm prone to like wacky things for my own justified reasons as well, so I"m no judge here.

[Beavertractors]

Hey Bart I have 2 of those mosins. They were selling for $80 in Vermont last year.. Bought synthetic stocks for$60 .So much nicer with new stocks.Sent bolts out to get cut and turned down,(just like sniper versions)for $40..I have weaver style scope mounts for about $15..Took mine to the range w/o scopes only 50 yards,they shot smooth Tony B

[housertl]

...scratched my head for a second too...but I think he meant he gets the benefit of the extra barrel length of the 34 (vs. the 17).
HOnestly, I think that reasoning is faulty, too, though. I don't know if 9mm benefits much from longer barrels and extra twist. Maybe in a 16 in carbine, but even there: without the numbers to back it up, I"m thinking 16 in would be wasteful for an inherently slow (pistol caliber) round. But we're not talking about anything near that. Again, with nothing to back this up, but the glock 34 is marketed for "accuracy" or shooting sports because of the longer sight radius. THe extra barrel length benefits, I guess,but I don't think to such a great degree of laying to the "+p" claim. Besides, in such a case, wouldn't that argument be moot? WHy bring something with such a long barrel for self defense if it isn't a rifle? the 34 isn't for home defense, but for target shooters. What would the push for +p rounds be other than SD?

Just my unqualified 2 cents, BTW. Unsolicited. I'm prone to like wacky things for my own justified reasons as well, so I"m no judge here.

Often, the difference between regular and +P ammo out of a 4" test barrel is only about 50-100 FPS, which is entirely consistent with the velocity gain from an additional 1.3 inches of barrel that you get on the 34. The marketing of the 34 as a target pistol came from the fact that one of the gun game orgs (can't remember which one), felt that using the 17L or 24 (6" barrel) was "cheating", so they made a box that your gun had to fit into, that was basically the size of a full size 1911. The 34/35 models are made to fit into that box. The 34/35 are actually about 3/4" shorter overall than a 1911 Govt, with a longer sight radius, and a longer barrel (only 1/3" but still longer). Chopping the grip makes it more concealable, since the extra barrel length is inside the pants. In an appendix IWB holster, this gun vanishes!

Since most 9mm rounds are of the light/fast variety, every bit of velocity helps. Also, the extra slide weight helps reduce the muzzle flip, speeding up your follow up shots.

Overall, unless you are using a SUPER hot 9mm, 10" of barrel seems to be about the point of diminishing returns, which is why most SMGs seem to hover around that length.

As far as why bring a long barrel for SD instead of a rifle, since I don't live in a place like AZ, it is illegal to carry around a concealed, loaded rifle. This is basically a rifle that I can tuck into the waistband. Lastly, I find that, for me, the combination of this barrel length and the shorter grip is the sweet spot for pointability.

[Gizmo42]

Oh yeah, forgot to mention on here that I got my CCW permit a few weeks ago :)

Been carrying my Ruger SR9 compact on weekends. Cant carry at work since I work for a school district (they frown on having guns on property). Waiting on the Crossbreed Super Tuck Deluxe IWB holster. Have been using an IWB holster for a Glock 26 for now. Only problem with it is the barrel sticks out a little too far and the front sight gets kinda painful after a while.

Also, my buddy Mike (protetype) picked up a Ruger LC9 so I got to see it close up. The slide is much thinner then the SR9c so much lighter. Its about the same thickness (going by feel) as a Bersa Thunder .380 but the grip and barrel length is a bit smaller (and its a 9mm!). If I didnt already have the 9c I would probably have one of those.

[Ala5ka]

I'm Alaskan, no permits for me :) I have an M&P 45, love it. I've also got the 500 Mag when the bears get out of hand, and a 1911 chambered in .22 in my survival bag.

[FlyingV77]

A "friend" just got a spingfield xdm .40 hasent shot it yet hope to this weekend

[spaceCADETzoom]

Oh yeah, forgot to mention on here that I got my CCW permit a few weeks ago :)

Been carrying my Ruger SR9 compact on weekends. Cant carry at work since I work for a school district (they frown on having guns on property). Waiting on the Crossbreed Super Tuck Deluxe IWB holster. Have been using an IWB holster for a Glock 26 for now. Only problem with it is the barrel sticks out a little too far and the front sight gets kinda painful after a while.

Also, my buddy Mike (protetype) picked up a Ruger LC9 so I got to see it close up. The slide is much thinner then the SR9c so much lighter. Its about the same thickness (going by feel) as a Bersa Thunder .380 but the grip and barrel length is a bit smaller (and its a 9mm!). If I didnt already have the 9c I would probably have one of those.

My CHL from El Paso County just came in the mail last week. I bought the LC9. I was on the fence tween it and the KelTec PF9. The Diamondback DB9 was on the list too. In the end the LC9 just felt less...cheap. Of course it was about $100 more than the PF9 too. So far it's great. I wanted the thinnest possible, I think the DB9 is officially the smallest 9mm right now,but I never got to see one first hand, and I've read bad things about thier 380s. And I was looking at a crossbreed spertuck too! But I think I"m leaning toward a comp-tac holster instead. THey have a quicker turnaround time too.

[spaceCADETzoom]

Oh, yeah, BTW. Buds Gun Shop has a labor day sale on LC9s for $349 DELIVERED. I got one for about the same price through gunbroker, but that's a pretty good deal.

[Gizmo42]

Think I'll be sticking with the SR9c for quite a while. A little bigger and heavier then some others but not an issue for me. Got to shoot Mikes LC9 and didnt really like it. Hurt my hand shooting it almost as much as the LCP. One of the girls we were camping with tried it and she was done after 2 shots. Convinced her to try the SR9c and she loved it. The LCP and LC9 are good when used for their intended purpose, just not much fun to practice with. The long heavy trigger pull on them still bothers me too.

Love the supertuck holster. After a while you get used to the weight of the gun and forget its even there. Even after a full day of sitting in the rodeo bouncing around on trails I had no issues with it.


A "friend" just got a spingfield xdm .40 hasent shot it yet hope to this weekend

Tried an XD before and just didnt feel right to me, like holding a brick. But at lest the grip angle was much better then on a Glock which also feels like holding a brick.

[p_justin13]

No concealed carry in IL though on the floor in senate to pass the bill lets hope.
Collection lol
3 Rock River customized ar15's
2-223 1-.786
1-barret 50 cal
2- 308 belt feds
1-rem 270
1-rem 30/06
2-beneli super's 12 guauge
1-browning overunder
3-ustomized ruger 10/22's
1-colt ar-15 .556
2-hk mp5
2-hk 91's
2-hk 93's
1-gsg mp5 rifle version

handguns
2-kimber .45's
2 eaa witness's 1-45 1-9mm
1-cz-b 40cal
1-kal-tec 22wmr
1-beretta model92 9mm
1-beretta model 87 target 22 cal
1-sig 45 cal
2-browning hi power
plus other little project guns love to build um love to blow stuff up more!

[VX KAT]

Think I'll be sticking with the SR9c for quite a while. A little bigger and heavier then some others but not an issue for me. Got to shoot Mikes LC9 and didnt really like it. Hurt my hand shooting it almost as much as the LCP. One of the girls we were camping with tried it and she was done after 2 shots. Convinced her to try the SR9c and she loved it. The LCP and LC9 are good when used for their intended purpose, just not much fun to practice with. The long heavy trigger pull on them still bothers me too.


A few weeks ago I got to try the LCP of a female friend. Hubby had bought it for her. Thing seriously kicked like a mule and hurt my hand, and she hates it too. It "looks" like it's a perfect CC...but it just doesn't have enough mass to tame that kick. I'll keep my Titanium Tomcat! :thumbup:

Got to shoot the SR9c again, and still really like that. Might find one in my collection in the future. :thumbup:

Here's a site that has some good comparison pics of the 3 we're talking about here....LCP, SR9c and LC9:
http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-LC9.htm

[spaceCADETzoom]

Think I'll be sticking with the SR9c for quite a while. A little bigger and heavier then some others but not an issue for me. Got to shoot Mikes LC9 and didnt really like it. Hurt my hand shooting it almost as much as the LCP. One of the girls we were camping with tried it and she was done after 2 shots. Convinced her to try the SR9c and she loved it. The LCP and LC9 are good when used for their intended purpose, just not much fun to practice with. The long heavy trigger pull on them still bothers me too.

I can agree with all of the above. But I wanted the smallest 9mm possible--figured it was the best tradeoff between usable caliber and size. Ive seen small women carry bigger guns, i just dont get how. If I didn't think it a problem in being obvious, I would have a double stack 1911, the hand gun world doesn't get any better IMHO.

These tiny 9mms may not be fun to shoot, but from what I figure, shooting a ccw in its intended purpose probably shouldn't be fun:)

[BigSwede]

I really like my Kahr PM9, definitely some kick to it but I can handle it fine. Some articles have mentioned it is relatively soft shooting for a micro 9. And now they have the CM9 out, which is a more affordable version.

[spaceCADETzoom]

I really like my Kahr PM9, definitely some kick to it but I can handle it fine. Some articles have mentioned it is relatively soft shooting for a micro 9. And now they have the CM9 out, which is a more affordable version.

Aww man, this is the first I've heard of the CM9. The PM9 was out of my price range and never in the running for me. But just a quick google search and the CM9 is in the $300s for street price. Are these striker-fired? I would have preferred that for these micro-pistols too. And it comes with 2 mags? Looks like a brand new LC9 may be showing up on the Co-AR15 forums' sales board....

[BigSwede]

Yes it's striker fired. Point and shoot, no safeties.

I believe the 'C' models come with one magazine.

[samneil2000]

Just picked up a S&W bodyguard 380. It's a sweet little piece. Hope to run some rounds through it this weekend.

[Marlin]

I picked up a Mosin-nagant today at the gun show. A 1944 Izzy production. Already cleaned up with all the accessories, out the door for 119 bucks. I am ordering the monte carlo stick and scope mounts. Great gun. I have fired several of them, not sure you can beat it for the cost. For a total of about 250 bucks total, you can sport it out, an amazingly reliable carbine. Next up, SKS conversion, just gotta get my hands on one in rough shape so I can save some bucks.
I also picked up an old stock Mossberg 22 tactical extended magazine. They are hard to find.

[Spike]

I have had a CC permit for about 14 years, but only ever carried once ... Just dont feel the need 'yet' ...

Anyway I have a Walther PPK .380 in stainless ... I tried a custom wood grip on it, but it cracked after a few clips (I had to take a dremel to it to make it fit my Interarms PPK anyway) ... so it has the original wrap around plastic grip. And an 'in the pocket' holster

I also have a High Standard "Victor" .22LR with the weighted 5.5" barrel ... super smooth to fire, but the slide jams once in a rare while, and not able to figure out why.

I havent been to the range in years, and not quite sure how it would go with my carpal tunnel the next time I do :(

[BigSwede]

Yeah, I haven't "used" my carry permit either. But it is nice to have that option...

[angrypanda]

I love my XDM 40 I take it anywhere I go cause the way I see it is there is no point to owning a gun to keep it at home