The last CV you'll ever need....maybe

[Ascinder]

I stumbled across these guys (http://www.rcvperformance.com/products.html) over at Pirate while looking for potential upgrades to the already overbuilt axles I'm swapping in. They do custom work and seem to have several good designs that would no doubt end our lifted CV issues. They can cut any splines we need, and on most of their stuff they have a "You break it, we replace it" warranty. A VX version of THESE (http://rcvperformance.com/k1500.html) look very promising. This is a tremendous boon if they worked out. Imagine running a locker up front with no worries of breakage. Now imagine the same thing with 35"+ tires. Our level of wheeling ability and safety increases dramatically.

[Triathlete]

Nice find!:yesy:
And they are no more expensive than OEM shafts! Wonder how much extra it would be for "custom" orders?

[RamAirZ]

I've seen there site before, they have some awesome stuff! I might give em' a call about it tomorrow and see what they say

[Triathlete]

Let us know what you find out.:yeso:

[RamAirZ]

Will do, I probably won't be ordering any soon (just dropped about $700 this past week on VX stuff lol) but I would love to know if they can do it. How are those EMPI's working for you Billy?

[BigSwede]

Nice find!:yesy:
And they are no more expensive than OEM shafts!
Huh?? That link said $495 each!

[RamAirZ]

I just got off the phone with Craig over there, he wants me to send him my axles so they can reverse engineer them but he thinks they can get it done. I'm going to have to yank my axle out soon then but this gives me an excuse to do the diff drop and a locker install lol. I may have to skip the Uwharrie trip if they can't get something done in time but oh well, might be worth it if we can get some strong axles for a change. I'll keep you guys updated, probably gonna work on getting the axle out on Thursday since I have the whole day off.

[Ldub]

Huh?? That link said $495 each!

I think he's referring to "order new from Merlin" prices.

[AlaskaVX]

I would definately buy a set.

[RamAirZ]

Ya me too, make swapping in a V8 more practical without having to do a solid axle

[tom4bren]

I can donate my spare set. They need to be reworked (pieces borrowed for my rebuild a cupla years ago). They should be sufficient for his reverse engineering though.

[RamAirZ]

Ya if you want to send them my way we can get this thing started! It shouldn't matter if they are broke as long as they are all together, do you have the inner cups too?

[Triathlete]

I think he's referring to "order new from Merlin" prices.

Correctamundo sir!:bwgy:

[Triathlete]

How are those EMPI's working for you Billy?

So far they are doing alright. Haven't had them off road yet...to much training, to little time (says the retired guy) and way to damn hot!

[RamAirZ]

haha I can understand that (the too little time lol)

[Marlin]

I too might be interested in a set of these, and I have a whole extra front axle set. I wonder if rather than shipping it to Ramairz, why not ship it straight to them, perhaps we could work out a group buy kind of thing. As for missing Uwharrie, you don't have that option, and you dont need to do anything to the VX for that, you could run it bone stock, with some ATs with no problems.

[RamAirZ]

lol duh I meant if I didn't have front shafts in I'd have to wheel it in 2wd lol. I'm not doing anything specifically for Uwharrie, just have some spending money for mods and decided to do what I can now and I can test stuff out there.

[LittleBeast]

I just got off the phone with Craig over there, he wants me to send him my axles so they can reverse engineer them but he thinks they can get it done. I'm going to have to yank my axle out soon then but this gives me an excuse to do the diff drop and a locker install lol. I may have to skip the Uwharrie trip if they can't get something done in time but oh well, might be worth it if we can get some strong axles for a change. I'll keep you guys updated, probably gonna work on getting the axle out on Thursday since I have the whole day off.

There are plenty of people on here (Tom and myself and others) that have an extra set lying around, I don't see any need of you yanking yours out unless no one else is interested.


I can donate my spare set. They need to be reworked (pieces borrowed for my rebuild a cupla years ago). They should be sufficient for his reverse engineering though.

As long as they came out of a VX ;) I got some out of a trooper that were just slighty different (a few mm too narrow to not slip in green cup.


Ya if you want to send them my way we can get this thing started! It shouldn't matter if they are broke as long as they are all together, do you have the inner cups too?

Why would he send them to you in FL? Why not just ship to RCV in IL? Just wondering not trying to be smart or anything ;) I have a whole set of CV's plus cups and all. I will be following this thread.

[RamAirZ]

Ya I don't know why I said send to me, I meant send them off to RCV. That would be dumb to ship to me just to reship to them. I've got his extension and personal number so I can let him know when they ship so he can keep an eye out for them.

[BigSwede]

I think he's referring to "order new from Merlin" prices.
Oh...right. :o

I guess I'm stuck in junkyard mode...

[BigSwede]

As long as they came out of a VX ;) I got some out of a trooper that were just slighty different (a few mm too narrow to not slip in green cup.
Shouldn't really matter here, as we are talking about replacing the entire axle all the way to the diff.

[RamAirZ]

The driver's side is different I think because we don't have an axle disconnect, now maybe an early inner stub from a truck with manual hubs would swap in since they didn't have that either

[nfpgasmask]

Nice find, Beau. This would be awesome for my Trooper, I would buy them, and then install a 10-bolt Aussie up front and maybe throw on some 35"s.

:evil: Bart

[Hide]

I wonderhow much they will charge us... they are selling CV sets built for other trucks for about $1200+...

[Ascinder]

I wonderhow much they will charge us... they are selling CV sets built for other trucks for about $1200+...

Probably pretty similar I would think, although their demand would likely be lower than most. Sounds like Ramairz has been doing most of the calling and talking to RCV, maybe he'll chime in if they gave him an estimate. I'm more concerned with making sure they're beefy enough to handle anything, and I mean ANYthing we ever dream of mounting up, whether it be full spools or 52" tires. You know once Pandora's box is opened, it's free license to go bat$#[! crazy and someone out there will try it. The next weak link if these come to fruition is likely the transmission/transfercase, so start thinking a little harder about swaps like the 5 speed or a 4L60.


Nice find, Beau. This would be awesome for my Trooper, I would buy them, and then install a 10-bolt Aussie up front and maybe throw on some 35"s.

Bart

I feel like I dropped a pebble in a pond on this one, LOL.

[Marlin]

Combine these with the superflexy IFS mod ....if it ever becomes available.

[RamAirZ]

He wants to see the shaft first and see what they can do and then he said he could give me a quote on it, I'm gonna call him tomorrow and see about a short-run group buy if they can do it and see what he says

[tom4bren]

I'll try to remember to bring in the half shafts tomorrow to box them up & ship them out.

Tom

[Ascinder]

As a quasi-related addition to this thread, I came across THIS (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=822257) today. Ballistic Fabrication is where I got my rod ends from in the "Ascinder's 1 ton VX" post started by ZEUS. Their work is awesome. It seems like they could make up a quality internal winch mount/recovery hardpoint, or something like bolt on skid plates or even beefy diff drop mounts. The sky's the limit. I would venture to say that someone may even be able to get them to produce a "bolt in" style SAS kit. Just think how awesome fabricated trailing arms would be on the VX:
http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww274/BallisticEng/Parts/TrailingArmAssemblyMRK2.jpg

They could do rock sliders the same way or even produce kits to lift the VX like you see on IFS trucks like chevys and toyotas with their diff drop frameworks and fabricated A-arms.. Just need a few enterprising individuals with a measuring tape and some ideas. Sounds like that long travel IFS idea is the perfect candidate for this type of thing.

[RabidPony]

Hmmmm....I bet I could make those....

[RamAirZ]

Let me know when you ship them out and I'll let Craig know. And Ascinder, that would be an awesome. I'd love to see a bolt-in SAS kit, I've been contemplating starting this little enterprise myself when funds/time permit. I'm gonna be working on a winch mount behind the cladding in the next few weeks and plan on taking detailed pics/instructions. I know that with Swordy and Spazz they really didn't have a whole lot of info on how they did it on here, just that it was done.

[Triathlete]

I'm gonna be working on a winch mount behind the cladding in the next few weeks and plan on taking detailed pics/instructions. I know that with Swordy and Spazz they really didn't have a whole lot of info on how they did it on here, just that it was done.

Might contact Todd Adams. He has a very clean behind the cladding winch set up.:yesy:

[RamAirZ]

Ya I will talk to him, I talked to Swordy and Spazz and neither of them had alot of in-depth info because it had been so long and they didn't take pics when doing it. I already ordered my winch and a universal winch tray so I was going to get to work on it when it all gets here

[Ascinder]

Umm.........http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn16/MOABtrip2008/People/VX/IMG_0680.jpg


That ain't there for looks. If you need measurements, I have the mount sitting on a shelf right now.

[RamAirZ]

That'd be awesome man! I got the XRC8 comp series with synthetic rope on the way and was going to mod the winch tray I ordered. I didn't know you had that setup too.

[Hide]

Umm.........http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn16/MOABtrip2008/People/VX/IMG_0680.jpg


That ain't there for looks. If you need measurements, I have the mount sitting on a shelf right now.

Very clean winch set up! Please let us know how to did it.

[tom4bren]

Axles boxed up & ready to go to post office. Shipping to:

RCV Performance
611 Beacon St
Loves Park, IL 61111

I got that addy from their website. If it's not right, lemme know ASAP.

[RamAirZ]

Just sent ya a PM

[tom4bren]

"a PM"

ROFL

I've gotten 12 PMs from you in the past 3 days.

FYI everybody, the axles are on the way to the fabricator so stay tuned.

[RamAirZ]

lol I've gotten just as many from you! you ol' goat!

[nfpgasmask]

That ain't there for looks.

Your winch mount is still nice, Beau. It's still hidden and doesn't look awkward or out of place....

Bart

[Hide]

Any news? Can't wait :p

[RamAirZ]

They've been pretty busy, waiting for a call back today. Hopefully he calls back today :laughing:

[Triathlete]

Any news? Can't wait :p

Funny, I was going to hunt for this thread today and ask the same thing!:bwgy:
Let us know what you hear RAZ!:yesy: And thanks for spearheading this.:_beer:

[RamAirZ]

No problem guys, I've been bugging Craig about it haha. Talked to him today, he didn't have an updates on the "engineering" process yet, the guy was out of the office today, hopefully should hear something tomorrow

[RamAirZ]

Talked to Sean today, he's their engineer guy. He's gonna come up with a proposal for me today or tomorrow, it should have 2 options and some ballpark prices. One option will be a full replacement, basically bulletproof axle warrantied just like the other products they offer. This option being the most expensive. The other option he is working on is some upgraded internals for our current setups, so basically the solid center shaft and inner/outer stubs would be retained by the "joints" themselves would be upgraded. This wouldn't fall under there lifetime warranty I don't think but would be alot more cost effective. In this option it would test the strength of the rest of the stock CV parts (the inner/outer stubs and center bar) so that would be why it doesn't fall under the full warranty, but I think they would warranty the parts that they upgrade. How does this sound to you guys? He should be working on a group buy pricing too.

[tom4bren]

So with option 1 you would get the added slip joint but with option 2 you would not?

I think I'll start saving my 'ching' & go for option 1.

Did I get that right (see attached picture)?

[RamAirZ]

sorta, not sure if we would use the slip shaft, he's working on the design and should be back to me today or tomorrow, but essentially yes. The cost would go down alot for option 2 because the fab time for making the replacement for the green cup and all new stub axles plus the slip shaft if used would add ALOT, figured I'd throw both options out there.

[Hide]

Do you think he can make both options available for us? Option 1 is for those hardcore off-roaders on here and option 2 for the part time off-roaders on here?

[RamAirZ]

I don't think that would be an issue, I'll double check with him when I get his proposal.

[Ascinder]

This is where we really need input from some of the old members who've broken CVs in the past. Does anyone know what part(s)of the CVs are actually failing? I always assumed the shafts themselves were snapping.

[tom4bren]

Ram,

Can you also get them to quote us for just the CV boots?

Ascinder,

AFAIK LittleBeast and Marlin are the only ones who have experienced a catastrophic failure. Everyone else has just done the replacement due to torn boots and/or clicking noise. My guess is that the typical failure sequence is as follows:

1. torn boot allowing lubricants to escape and abrasives to enter the CV joint.

2. the inner (star) and outer (green cup) races become worn causing a divet that the balls will jump in and out of during articulation - clicking sound.

3. those divets become so pronounced that the balls actually bind causing the inner race to fracture

4. once the inner race fractures, the longitudinal slip will probably be adequate that it pops the retaining clip loose and the whole assembly falls out.

5. as soon as one end breaks free, the other CV will 'explode' as well.

This is all conjecture on my part of course since I've never actually been inside a CV when it fails.

[RamAirZ]

Alan (bigmeatvx) exploded his at Moab. He said his cage exploded if I recall correctly

[BigSwede]

I have broken a couple of outer joints (I have been told this is the most common breakage point when wheeling) and in one case I exploded the "cup" on the inner joint. The inner broke during a high speed hill climb in the snow...full throttle, lots of wheelspin, and then the wheel suddenly found traction. Boom.

I have never snapped any portion of the three shafts that make up a CV axle. I think the CV joints will go long before the shafts will shear.

[Triathlete]

I know of knowone personally that has broken the shafts themselves. All the failures I know of have been the cages exploding.

As far as the slip shaft, I see no need for it unless you have come up with a suspention mod that allows a lot more up/down arrticulation than what our stock suspention will allow (think trophy truck like 22 inch plus of travel). The green cup allows the balls/cage to move about 3 inches to keep the length in ckeck.
I really like the option of being able to replace the ball/cage with a heavy duty option...that would be the route I would be interested in. I have 2 factory and 3 Empi shafts that I can use! The cage removes with a lock ring...pretty east to do.:yesy:

And again thanks to all that are getting this rolling

[tom4bren]

True Billy, the slip shaft isn't absolutely needed but I'm not sure that the green cup (outer race) provides 3" movement.

The other thing to consider is that it's not just the inner race that gets worn. The outer race wears out at the same rate. If you need to replace your CVs due to wear, it would be best to replace the green cup as well.

[Marlin]

I know of knowone personally that has broken the shafts themselves. All the failures I know of have been the cages exploding.

As far as the slip shaft, I see no need for it unless you have come up with a suspention mod that allows a lot more up/down arrticulation than what our stock suspention will allow (think trophy truck like 22 inch plus of travel). The green cup allows the balls/cage to move about 3 inches to keep the length in ckeck.
I really like the option of being able to replace the ball/cage with a heavy duty option...that would be the route I would be interested in. I have 2 factory and 3 Empi shafts that I can use! The cage removes with a lock ring...pretty east to do.:yesy:

And again thanks to all that are getting this rolling

Broke the shaft x2, separate trail runs....nice to meet you Billy:)
As for now, I am good with the OEM sets, I have 5 of em in the garage:)
But I would be interested in some manly boots, the mecatech ripped after a few weeks, the OEM ones were not ripped when I replaced em:flame:

[Triathlete]

Where those OEM shafts you broke? Don't think they were!:bwgy: I was refering to the OEM shafts.

T4B..the green cup supplies a lot of in/out movement, may not be 3 inches but it is close. As far as replacing the green cups...unless you are prepared to disassemble your diff, not going to happen. They are held in place with lock rings inside the diff.:yesy::(

[BigMeatVX]

Where those OEM shafts you broke? Don't think they were!:bwgy: I was refering to the OEM shafts.

T4B..the green cup supplies a lot of in/out movement, may not be 3 inches but it is close. As far as replacing the green cups...unless you are prepared to disassemble your diff, not going to happen. They are held in place with lock rings inside the diff.:yesy::(

Billy, You do not need to dissasemble the diff to get out the stub axles...It is a real pain in the ***** though...you need a tiny pair of snap ring pliers to get the two snap rings and they slide right out after removing the 4 bolts holding the bracket to the axle housing.
.................................................. ...............................................

As far as the HD axles...I/We looked into it years ago and it was $$$$ (as did Swordy and Grampa Bob and others)...but mabey things have changed.???

I have broken 3-5 CVs over the years...and most were in the cage-star area...although at least one damaged or even split the green cup in two...and one broke an outer stub inside the hub.

the biggest two problem areas (beyond the obvious cages) are the smallish 17 spline stub axles (necked down to .9" in some areas!!!), both in the diff side, and at the outer hub-side.
I have spent much time and research into this....Even if you went to a superior material like heat reated 300M, you nwould still only gain a marginal amount of strength (10-20%) and the diameter of the spindle is too small to upgrade the axle size. On the diff side, the guys at ARB could make a modified 10 bolt diff with larger side gears (like 30 spline Super 30), and larger carrier bearings, but this would be pricey custom work and require your diff 3rd member to be machined for the lager bearrings.:yeso:
And after all that work and money, you still would be limited by the diameter of the outer stub axle.:mady2:

That is why I have resorted to a project upgrading the whole front end of my VX...to Dana 44 center section, with Toyota 30 spline axles (a full 1.31" dia. almost 50% stronger than the isuzu), CVs and larger brakes and larger Land Cruiser hubs and spindle and berrings....the project is not yet complete though, as I am still gathering all the needed parts...


Keep us posted on the axles and CVs.....

[Ascinder]

That is why I have resorted to a project upgrading the whole front end of my VX...to Dana 44 center section, with Toyota 30 spline axles (a full 1.31" dia. almost 50% stronger than the isuzu), CVs and larger brakes and larger Land Cruiser hubs and spindle and berrings....the project is not yet complete though, as I am still gathering all the needed parts...

If you don't mind me asking, how far along are you. I am stuck right now trying to cut off the A-arm, shock, and steering brackets. I'm about to buy a plasma cutter and go to town. Tried an angle grinder with a cutoff disc and a sawzall and could only get so far. The brackets are too close together to get into the tight corners. I'm going to run a stock dana 60 for now, then upgrade to the RCV60 shafts if I start getting close to breaking anything. :hj:

[LittleBeast]

Alan (bigmeatvx) exploded his at Moab. He said his cage exploded if I recall correctly

Yes my cage (that holds the balls in place) blew in half as well, I have pictures around here somewhere.....

[LittleBeast]

Billy, You do not need to dissasemble the diff to get out the stub axles...It is a real pain in the ***** though...you need a tiny pair of snap ring pliers to get the two snap rings and they slide right out after removing the 4 bolts holding the bracket to the axle housing.
.................................................. ...............................................

I think that is what Billy was refering to. You need to basically drop your diff to slid shafts out, you do have to remove the diff brackets, which includes the 4 bolts you are referencing and the 2 bolts that hold the diff bracket to the frame per side. Then they slide out, but not before your diff is sitting on the floor :) This is the part that most people do not want to do, so by "dissassemble the diff" I think he meant drop it out of the VX, which yes you have to do.

[BigMeatVX]

I think that is what Billy was refering to. You need to basically drop your diff to slid shafts out, you do have to remove the diff brackets, which includes the 4 bolts you are referencing and the 2 bolts that hold the diff bracket to the frame per side. Then they slide out, but not before your diff is sitting on the floor :) This is the part that most people do not want to do, so by "dissassemble the diff" I think he meant drop it out of the VX, which yes you have to do.

I NEVER have had to drop my diff to the ground, to get the stubb axles out, EVER...in fact, I say, it would be a struggle to get the diff out before removing the axle shafts.

It can be done with the diff still hanging in the VX....a pry-bar and patience is needed though.

[BigMeatVX]

Ascinder,

I've got the dana 44 center section, the Toyota hubs and brakes...The CV shafts are next on my list...this has been on hold for the last month though...

Is it too late to talk you out of SAS?:winky:

[Ascinder]

Waaayyyy too late, lol. I've already removed almost everything from the VX and I've hacked most of the way through those A-arms brackets. Also, there is no way in hell CVs are going to hold up against 500hp and 37" tires. I'd say I'm fairly well committed at this point to the SAS.

[LittleBeast]

I NEVER have had to drop my diff to the ground, to get the stubb axles out, EVER...in fact, I say, it would be a struggle to get the diff out before removing the axle shafts.

It can be done with the diff still hanging in the VX....a pry-bar and patience is needed though.

Haha, yeah my point is we are all talking about the same thing just using different words. I know what you mean by"diff still hanging in the VX", but you still have to remove the 4 bolts holding on the bracket that mounts the diff to the frame, and probably support the diff with a jack or stands or something while it is "hanging in there", so you basically are removing the diff from its original position, and is probably less hassle to go ahead and remove it. Yes you have to remove at least one of the axle halfs before removing the diff. But I might try your crow bar method next time, seems like fun :)

[BigMeatVX]

Also, there is no way in hell CVs are going to hold up against 500hp and 37" tires. I'd say I'm fairly well committed at this point to the SAS.

While the stockers, or even my toyota ones wouldn't hold up to 500HP,

934.5 CVs CAN and DO take that HP and tire size!!!! the axle bars are 1.5" 35 slpine just like a dana 60!!!:yeso: And they even have larger ones...series 50??? avail.....:yesy: PRO 4 trucks use these....

[LittleBeast]

[QUOTE=BigMeatVX;206758]
934.5 CVs CAN and DO take that HP and tire size!!!![QUOTE]
If only we could get some 934.5 CV's in the VX :(

[Triathlete]

While the stockers, or even my toyota ones wouldn't hold up to 500HP,

934.5 CVs CAN and DO take that HP and tire size!!!! the axle bars are 1.5" 35 slpine just like a dana 60!!!:yeso: And they even have larger ones...series 50??? avail.....:yesy: PRO 4 trucks use these....

Yep, just take a look at Shannon Campbells IFS King of the Hammers rig.:yesy:

[Ascinder]

Yeah, but try finding a replacement set of those at the junkyard. For the $250 I spent for the whole D60, I'm pretty sure for as rarely as I'll break shafts that it'll be more cost effective long run. Plus I can regear it to just about anything and there's a wide variety of lockers available. I have just never heard of that kind of stuff with any of the IFS out there that isn't totally high dollar custom made. Add to that the fact that my solid axle route is way more hydraulic steering friendly, and probably articulates waaayy more, plus more weight down low vs. IFS and I'm sold on it.

[Triathlete]

I was just throwing that out there...believe me, if I had the $$$ there would already be a solid axle under mine!

[Ascinder]

Updates? With Bigmeat's new super flexy IFS, I'd think people would really start wanting these stronger CV's. I don't how many people watched the videos in his thread, but those A-arm angles are going to eat stock CV's for breakfast. I love that I'm finally seeing some decent hardcore parts becoming available for the VX. Even if it's a little too late for me:bwgy:

[RamAirZ]

lol I need to give craig a call again on monday and see what's going on with it.

[Marlin]

Updates? With Bigmeat's new super flexy IFS, I'd think people would really start wanting these stronger CV's. I don't how many people watched the videos in his thread, but those A-arm angles are going to eat stock CV's for breakfast. I love that I'm finally seeing some decent hardcore parts becoming available for the VX. Even if it's a little too late for me:bwgy:

Thats what I was thinking, talking with Joe D about it. Definitely gotta stay out of the skinny pedal if you are flexed out...Plus, looking how much flex he gets, gonna have to remove the inner liners, and perhaps trim the outer cladding...no big deal for me, but for some that is probably a deal breaker, although if you want to keep your VX pretty, this kit kind of defeats the purpose. This would be for an actual trail truck, not a once a year, Tour De Desert truck. Not downing those folks, but to spend that much money and time, for a mod that is gonna require some work to make it effective...I went ahead and did the ball joint flip, low pro bump stops(that really aren't any smaller than the factory stops), got the diff drop brackets in the truck...and I have several spare OEM CVs, so maybe if this EMPI deal goes through, I may liquidate all my spares, and use that as money toward the super fancy CVs. :)

[VXorado]

I would love to have stronger CVs my VX. Mine were the destroyed in Moab when the boots ripped, all the grease fell out and the bearings slowly wore the inner cup into oblivion with metal on metal contact. I installed new CVs but they still click/vibrate because I didn't replace the inner cup. These stronger CVs look to be a permanent fix to these problems

[Marlin]

Pending the cost of these new CVs, (over 1K I would imagine) I will have 6 OEM CVs available for purchase. I will put new boots on em and everything. I may be able to work out a deal where I can sell all of my extras and cover the cost of a pair of 1K CVs? I know the OEM CVs are listed at 750 and 950 on Isuzu parts,they say the drivers and passenger are different? Not that I am aware of? I have two sets from a VX, one pair with the cups, never wheeled. My set, have been wheeled, but well taken care of, no clicks or slop and what not. This may be doable....waiting on price...

[BigSwede]

With Bigmeat's new super flexy IFS, I'd think people would really start wanting these stronger CV's. I don't how many people watched the videos in his thread, but those A-arm angles are going to eat stock CV's for breakfast.
I was thinking about this a little, and I suspect having the weight balanced between the two CVs will somewhat offset the angle effect on CV longevity. I have broken a couple of CVs where one side was trying to climb a ledge or log by itself. With the "SFIFS", the loads are going to be much more balanced L/R (within the limits of IFS travel at least) so there is good chance that the other side will be helping too in that scenario.

But we'll see what happens...you may be right.

[Ascinder]

Yeah, from a weight distribution standpoint, it will certainly reduce breakages, but kind of what I was referring to is that generally when people start putting performance oriented stuff like this in, the tendency is to lift as well, they kind of go hand in hand. I know when mine was lifted pretty high like that, the cvs were seeing some pretty steep angles. When that happens you get a lot of end-range play. What I mean is that the balls and cups are sitting where they are not used to being and at the limits of their allowable travel I think that's where a lot of people are hearing the clicking. If you envision the insides of a cv at a high angle, the cages are also at an angle and so every time the shaft turns one revolution, the balls must travel all the way back and forth in the cup. I think this is the clicking people hear. Obviously all this travel is going to cause more wear and tear vs stock which only travel a small amount and then only when there's any suspension travel. That's the reason I was interested in the cvs that have a splints center shaft that allows them to self lengthen and shorten. It would take away some of the forces present when the suspension cycles. And instead of bottoming out the cages in the cups, would let them ride where they're most "comfortable".


P.S.: 1000th post ftw!!

[vt_maverick]

Pending the cost of these new CVs, (over 1K I would imagine) I will have 6 OEM CVs available for purchase.

That's a shame if it does cost that much, even for those of us "Tour de Desert"/Beach folks (;)) I would much prefer to invest a little ching for a much more durable end product (a mild lift is something I'd like to do in the future). But as you said if it costs that much you may as well keep cycling through OEM crap. :thumbdn:

[Marlin]

Ascinder is 100% right. But rather than a negative, I see the moving of the balls as evening the wear throughout the tulip fitting:smack: (I found out today that tulip is the technical term for what we call the cup). What can I say, I am a silver lining kind of guy.
But having the CVs at those angles should be alright for me, my driving style is very slow and methodical, its why I have done so well on the trails, my throttle is very sensitive. I attribute my throttle control skills to years of playing console video games:work:

[LittleBeast]

What exactly is it that will be upgraded about these CV's? The cage itself was the only weak spot on the OEM CV's that I experienced. How do they increase the quality of the cage? Just make it thicker?

[Triathlete]

Probably the use of better/stronger metal alloys...just guessing though. They may also know of a better way to design them to eliminate/strengthen weak spots.

[BigMeatVX]

The clicking people hear is the ball(s) traveling in the slots in the tulip and the star, AND hitting a worn or damaged area in there path...either a compression in the tulip or a crack in the star will cause this...

It is NOT the axle bar binding on the side of the tulip.:mad:

Did you have a diff drop when you had this lift???:confused:

Some CVs allow the axle bar to slip inside the star for more movement...this eliminates the need for the center slip yoke you speak of...


Yeah, from a weight distribution standpoint, it will certainly reduce breakages, but kind of what I was referring to is that generally when people start putting performance oriented stuff like this in, the tendency is to lift as well, they kind of go hand in hand. I know when mine was lifted pretty high like that, the cvs were seeing some pretty steep angles. When that happens you get a lot of end-range play. What I mean is that the balls and cups are sitting where they are not used to being and at the limits of their allowable travel I think that's where a lot of people are hearing the clicking. If you envision the insides of a cv at a high angle, the cages are also at an angle and so every time the shaft turns one revolution, the balls must travel all the way back and forth in the cup. I think this is the clicking people hear. Obviously all this travel is going to cause more wear and tear vs stock which only travel a small amount and then only when there's any suspension travel. That's the reason I was interested in the cvs that have a splints center shaft that allows them to self lengthen and shorten. It would take away some of the forces present when the suspension cycles. And instead of bottoming out the cages in the cups, would let them ride where they're most "comfortable".


P.S.: 1000th post ftw!!

[BigMeatVX]

Thats what I was thinking, talking with Joe D about it. Definitely gotta stay out of the skinny pedal if you are flexed out...Plus, looking how much flex he gets, gonna have to remove the inner liners, and perhaps trim the outer cladding...no big deal for me, but for some that is probably a deal breaker, although if you want to keep your VX pretty, this kit kind of defeats the purpose. :)

Dont forget that I run 35s and 36 inch tires....:winko: thats where all the trimming is neccesary...
Folks with 31-33ish tires will not need to remove front the inner fenders with the SUPER FLEXY IFS KIT.

[Ascinder]

Well I'm not really sure what you mean by an axle bar, but I think we are saying the same thing. Yes, I did have a diff drop installed at the time. I did 2.5" if remember correctly, but it might have been 3", it'd been a long time. Even with that my cvs were running constant 30 degree angles just going down the street. I was trying to say in my post above that because of that angle, every time the shaft rotates it cause the balls to do exactly what you are saying-slide back and forth in the cv cups, but it's also causing the cages to move all over the place so they can. If you have a cv with no boot on and look inside when you move it and it's at a high angle you can see this plain as day.

[tom4bren]

I just spoke with Sean at RCV. He is trying to get the detailed measurements from my donated parts & have a cost estimate for us soon.

LittleBeast - I forgot to ask him how the cage is made better but I'll try to remember next time I talk to him.

BigSwede - I was thinking about the super flexy thing when I was talking to Sean. He is initially going to price the half shafts without the slip joint added to the center bar (to save on cost). They'll be able to add it if needed for those that are going super flexy. He said that on Uber-lifted Toyotas they typically install longer center bars. I don't think that will work for our set up with super flexy since the stuffed wheel will effectively need a shorter center bar or something could get damaged.

RamAirZ - I'm not trying to take over - just not sure of your interest since you sold your VX.

Tom

[RamAirZ]

I've still been working on it, little irritated with Sean because this was supposed to be done already lol. If you wanna stay involved be my guest. I wasn't going to bail on this plan even though I sold Sylvia.

[tom4bren]

BTW, I also mentioned to Sean that more than a few of us have gotten wear points in the outer race. In all the cases I've heard of, it was caused by grit that got in after a torn boot. Hope he gets the message tho that the parts should be hardened by the best means possible.

[Marlin]

Bump for update?

[tom4bren]

I tried to call yesterday but he didn't pick up.

[Marlin]

Maybe he was out voting...

[RamAirZ]

lol I've been getting that for the last 2 weeks

[Ascinder]

A lot of these offroading related shops have spurts where they are impossible to get a hold of. I've had to call and call and call for ever at some places:mad: They will become available again soon I'm sure.

[tom4bren]

A lot of these offroading related shops have spurts where they are impossible to get a hold of. I've had to call and call and call for ever at some places:mad: They will become available again soon I'm sure.

That's what I figured too. I'll continue to be patient & nice in the hopes that they'll cut me a killer deal on a set to Beta Test them.:)

[Marlin]

That's what I figured too. I'll continue to be patient & nice in the hopes that they'll cut me a killer deal on a set to Beta Test them.:)

You have a front locker and a super flexy IFS kit?! I didn't know that!! I didn't even know you did a lot of wheelin? Damn, and I thought I had a pretty good idea about my family's VX usage.
The above things must be true in order to be the test platform.:bgwb: That narrows it down to only a few of us...and I believe one has a blown engine, another sounds like he doing a engine swap as well.:smack:

[tom4bren]

You, me, BigMeat & LittleBeast have the most experience with trashed CVs so personally, I think I would be a good choice to test them.

[vt_maverick]

In any case, more testers equals more reliable results.

[Marlin]

You, me, BigMeat & LittleBeast have the most experience with trashed CVs so personally, I think I would be a good choice to test them.

LOL, I was just giving you a hard time. I figure a front locker while wheeling would be the hardest test platform, and add bonus points for the Superflexy IFS kit.
Although, I have never broken an OEM CV on the trail, and other than boots, have never had a problem.
I just want peace of mind that I don't have to worry ever again. I want some of those fancy orange boots at RCV, but I will wait on the new set and see what they come up with. I will keep one of my after market CVs as a trail spare since the RCVs come with a sweet warranty.

Maybe we can get them to do a group buy reduced rate, perhaps put down a 50% deposit or some such deal.

[yellowgizmo99]

they are not sure what the size is for the VCross(RCV), talked with someone and he said if he could get the OD of the 2 boot sizes needed and number of folds he would look to see what could fit.

[tom4bren]

LOL, I was just giving you a hard time.

I know. I never take myself seriously ... you even less so.


they are not sure what the size is for the VCross(RCV), talked with someone and he said if he could get the OD of the 2 boot sizes needed and number of folds he would look to see what could fit.

Crap - I didn't even think about sending them the spare CV boot I have. I'll try calling them again today.

[Marlin]

I know. I never take myself seriously ... you even less so.
;eekb;


Crap - I didn't even think about sending them the spare CV boot I have. I'll try calling them again today.

They should be able to get the boot size from the CV joints they have.

[tom4bren]

They should be able to get the boot size from the CV joints they have.

I'll offer though & get some brownie points:happyface

[phines]

You have a front locker and a super flexy IFS kit?! I didn't know that!! I didn't even know you did a lot of wheelin? Damn, and I thought I had a pretty good idea about my family's VX usage.
The above things must be true in order to be the test platform.:bgwb: That narrows it down to only a few of us...and I believe one has a blown engine, another sounds like he doing a engine swap as well.:smack:

Yep, I'm the one with the blown engine. Should be back on the road in another week or so though. We should all get together next spring to do some wheeling (Uwharrie or wherever).

So, what's the status on these new hardcore CV's? Shop still not responding?

[tom4bren]

Not today (but I have not been leaving voicemails). If he doesn't pick up this afternoon, I'll leave a message for him to call me.

[Marlin]

Yep, I'm the one with the blown engine. Should be back on the road in another week or so though. We should all get together next spring to do some wheeling (Uwharrie or wherever).

So, what's the status on these new hardcore CV's? Shop still not responding?

I'm going to Moab next spring, so no uwharrie April trip. I am planning on doing the December run in mid December to close out the season, test out the IFS kit, and maybe the RCV CVs.

[yellowgizmo99]

maybe the guy I talked to didn't know about the CV there and I forgot about it myself.

[tom4bren]

Left voicemail. If he doesn't return my call by noon tomorrow, I'll try his cell.

[BigSwede]

He might be at the SEMA show this week in Vegas. I know that's where Indy4x is...

[tom4bren]

Good point, I'll wait till Monday to try again.

[Marlin]

:bump: for update...

[VXorado]

Hey Tom, did you ever hear back from the company?

[tom4bren]

Nope ... I'll try calling him later today.

[tom4bren]

Still no answer when I call.

Still no response to voicemail messages.

I went to their website & sent them a message ... I'll let you know how that works out.

Tom

[vt_maverick]

Are they owned by Alpine? :)

[RamAirZ]

I've gotten the same thing Tom

[VXorado]

Thanks for trying Tom, we'll see what happens. Obviously customer service isn't a big part of their business.

[tom4bren]

Are they owned by Alpine? :)

LOL ... mebbe.

They are definitely behind the times tho. Their website still lists Tone as the only distributor for their Isuzu products.


Thanks for trying Tom, we'll see what happens. Obviously customer service isn't a big part of their business.

I'm sure it's a different story if you're purchasing an existing product from them. If you're working with them on a new product, then ...

[tom4bren]

WooHoo!!!

I finally got ahold of Craig. He's going to track down Sean & have him give me a call.



Don't hold your breath ... I'm not.:)

[tom4bren]

My son was driving the VX last night & said it was making a horrible noise from the front end. I just went out & checked it. The front outter CV on the drivers side went bye-bye.

The end of the shaft is completely out of the outer race. The cage and all of the balls are gone. The inner race looks OK but the end of the shaft is pretty chewed up. I stuck my finger in the inner race and there's a lot of sharp splinters in there so I didn't investigate it any further.

It was easy to pop off the boot on the inner race and pull the retaining ring out. Turning the wheels all the way to the right gave me enough room to remove the shaft.

Bad time of the year to be running without 4WD but at least it's driveable now.

Hope RCV gets on the ball with those new shafts. I'll be calling them on Monday to light a fire under them. Definitely a higher priority for me now that I'm the one that needs them.

[Ebenezr]

I know this is countercurrent but I think of the cv and half shaft kind of as a fuse in the front driveline. If something needs to blow let it be a $60.00 "plug and play"cv half shaft assembly rather than something deeper in the driveline. I'm not sure I would would want an industructible joint.

[tom4bren]

After doing this job for the 3rd time ... I'm NOT inclined to agree:)

[Ebenezr]

After doing this job for the 3rd time ... I'm NOT inclined to agree:)

Well maybe I just haven't owned mine long enough to plow through that many joints. My rt joint is on my garage floor right now. I will replace the whole rt shaft with cup and drop the diff next week.

[Triathlete]

I know this is countercurrent but I think of the cv and half shaft kind of as a fuse in the front driveline. If something needs to blow let it be a $60.00 "plug and play"cv half shaft assembly rather than something deeper in the driveline. I'm not sure I would would want an industructible joint.



I'm not sure I like replacing and buying shafts every other weekend!:bwgy: Especially in the middle of a trail.

[Marlin]

I'm not sure I like replacing and buying shafts every other weekend!:bwgy: Especially in the middle of a trail.

x3, now that I have done both sides 4 times, and the drivers side one extra with another one on the way in the next few weeks.

[tom4bren]

The consensus is then:

Light a fire under T4B to light a fire under RCV!!!

GAME ON!!!

[Ebenezr]

I've owned mine four about 5 months. Have not been on any trails yet - but soon. I have replaced the ball loints, tie rod ends, steering gear, left front cv half shaft, shocks and tires and wow what a difference this maintenance has made. I am replacing the passenger side shaft with green cup this week cause some dum dum put a tripod style cv joint/cup on BUT do you all really go through joints this often? No exaggerations? Where are they breaking? If its at the inner cup maybe that is worn such that your replacements don't last.

[Marlin]

I have only broke 2 joints, and a third on the way. I went through multiple boots, now I dropped the diff, so hopefully won't have to do that anymore. The aftermarket CVs are junk. Broke two on one wheeling trip. The OEM CVs are crazy expensive, hence the anticipation of getting the RCV joints.

(Oh, the shafts broke on the two I snapped, so not a tulip fitting issue)

[tom4bren]

Mine was a reworked CV joint. I noticed that the balls were binding slightly in the cage after it was reworked. It was just a matter of time.

RCV has my spare set (to reverse engineer them). Even if RCV takes a while to build ours, if I can get mine back soon ...

I have the diff drops on mine as well so once I've got a good set in place, I don't expect further problems ... of course that's what I thought when I had the originals rebuilt:)

[BigSwede]

BUT do you all really go through joints this often? No exaggerations?
Recognize that these two are among the most aggressive wheelers on the board...worst case scenario.

[Triathlete]

Aggressive? Me?:winky:

[BigSwede]

Not sayin' you are a throttle jockey, just that you try out the tougher trails than most VXers, and do it more often...

[tom4bren]

I called RCV again (never did hear back from Sean last week even though I talked to Craig).

They have a new phone system so it makes me wonder if there are major changes going on at RCV/Rockford Acromatic.

I also sent them another online message from their website.

[Ascinder]

I called RCV again (never did hear back from Sean last week even though I talked to Craig).

They have a new phone system so it makes me wonder if there are major changes going on at RCV/Rockford Acromatic.

I also sent them another online message from their website.

And another week bites the dust:bump:

[tom4bren]

Yup. I left another voicemail with Craig. Can't even transfer to Sean with their new phone system. I never got a response from their online messaging either.

If I can ever get ahold of a live person, I'll let them know that I need my half shafts back ASAP since I lost a CV joint recently. Mebbe that'll get them moving.

[tom4bren]

WooHoo

Sean made the mistake of answering the phone ... so I picked his brain for about 20 minutes (poor guy).

They are still going to offer replacement half shafts for us ... but it's still several months out. Probably won't be till late spring. They've taken all of the measurements from my set of shafts that they'll be needing so they are going to return mine soon.

The half shaft that they will be offering are a complete redesign so will look nothing like the OEM. They'll look something like this (click the pic to zoom):

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/Ultimate-IFS.gif (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19578)

As you can see in the pic, the boots are entirely different. They will not be offering replacement OEM boots to those that just want to upgrade the boots without the half shafts.

They are anticipating that these half shafts will be in the ball park of $1800 for the set. That's not suprising since that is the price of the others they offer.

The entire geometry of the CVs will be different so I'm really looking forward to checking out a set of these to see just what the improvements are. Despite the cost, I'll probably be one of the first to order a set.

For those that are lifting more than 3", you'll be able to order longer shafts.

For those that are lifting and adding the Super Flexy IFS mod, you'll also be able to special order the shaft with the slip joint added.

[Triathlete]

Couple ?????? that maybe you asked...
"a set"...is that left AND right? If so that is the same as a new oem set. So that is good!
will the cv joints have a higher degree of flex than the stock?

and lastly a huge thanks for keeping the ball rolling on this and following up!

[VXorado]

They are anticipating that these half shafts will be in the ball park of $1800 for the set.

:eek:whoa, how much is that SAS costing you again Ascinder? :laughb:

I knew they would be expensive but closer to $1K rather than $2K. At least they look impressive

[tom4bren]

"a set"...is that left AND right?

That's what it sounded like

If so that is the same as a new oem set. So that is good!

I'm sure that for Toy-toters (which they specialize in) that's not the case.

will the cv joints have a higher degree of flex than the stock?

'Sposed to ... lots more


:dance:

[tom4bren]

:eek:whoa, how much is that SAS costing you again Ascinder? :laughb:

I new they would be expensive but closer to $1K rather than $2K. At least they look impressive

That's basically the price for all of their half shafts. Remember these are completely re-engineered to be bullet proof & high performance.

[Triathlete]

:eek:whoa, how much is that SAS costing you again Ascinder? :laughb:

I new they would be expensive but closer to $1K rather than $2K. At least they look impressive

If that price is for both then its not a bad deal at all! ! Give your local stealership a call and price oem shafts.:yesy:

[tom4bren]

Sean is supposed to have a driver side half shaft ready for me in 4-6 weeks. Price is $900 plus shipping. Only ordering the one side for now since insurance is paying.:dance:

I'll keep you posted.

[tom4bren]

I finally got ahold of Sean again. He's supposed to call me back tomorrow with an estimate on the completion date. Keep fingers crossed.

[tom4bren]

I give up.

We've been working with them for 7 months now & have nothing to show for it.

I just left Craig another voicemail. Told him that they've just lost a $900 sale.

I've left 6 voicemails in the past 2 weeks with NO returned phone calls. I did manage to talk to Sean & he was supposed to call me back the next day ... he didn't.

Not sure what kind of business practice this is supposed to be but it ain't working.

I'll wait a couple of days & try to contact them again asking for the return of my OEM half shafts. I guess I'll get them rebuilt for the insurance claim.

BTW, if anyone wants to start calling to see if they have any better luck: 815-877-7473 option 1 for Craig. Option 3 & then 7326 for Sean.

[RamAirZ]

I haven't posted but I've been calling them too up until a few weeks ago I gave up.

[tom4bren]

The repair shop tried calling and online messaging them for a month & then gave up.

[tom4bren]

Well, I finally got my OEM half shafts back from RCV on Friday except that one inner race and one shaft (between the inner & outer CV) was missing. Rekin I'll start calling them again today.

Need to start calling a few bone yards too & see if I can get the missing pieces there as well. Now that I know that Troops & Passports probably share the same shaft, I'm hoping I'll have some luck.

[Marlin]

The only problem with all that, the trooper/slx shaft, although the same length, has a different spline count when it comes to swapping the ball and cages between cvs. Huge PITA. It is doable though, I still use my frankenstein CV. Not sure what parts came from where, we had an airbag full of cv joints that we went through to make it work.

[VXorado]

I have some miscellaneous CV parts from my old set that I was gonna toss in the trash. What parts are you missing, the cage & knuckle on the rzeppa joint?

[tom4bren]

That would be great VXorado.

I need the inner race & the half shaft pictured below The inner race is what some have called "the Star" in the past & the half shaft is the short axle between the inner & outer CVs.

If ya got'm, I'll gladly pay shipping & make an extra site donation in your honor.

[VXorado]

Pretty sure I have those. I'll check for ya after work today

[LittleBeast]

Pretty sure I have an extra inner race. Not sure on the half shaft I can't remember. Maybe when I am done with my interior overhaul I will get all this out if you need it.

[tom4bren]

Pretty sure I have those. I'll check for ya after work today

On second thought, lets just go with the inner race. I can K-ball the half shaft from the passenger side. Don't want to re-use the race though since it's been machined once already.

[VXorado]

Looks like I have what you need Tom. Give me a couple days to clean everything up and I'll let you know shipping details.

[tom4bren]

U Da Man!!

[spaceCADETzoom]

uh. Not to pick scabs, but did this ever get worked out? I think I'm headed for new CVs...again...and would like them to be my last. Doesn't bother me 99% of the year, as it only makes noises in 4lo, but the last week started nudging me.

[Marlin]

LOL, just wait till you blow your front drive shaft. Zu wants 500-600 for em. I took my spare to a driveshaft shop to have em rebuilt. No go. They said the boots are flanged on and there is no way to repair them. Dunno if I believe that, but I know my currently installed one is clattering. My spare has a torn boot, and apparently my original has had torn boots for quite some time. I mention it in this thread only because it has CVs at each end of the shaft, the drive shaft guy said it was a weird design, and not very strong. I agree, considering our rear Dana44 has axles the size of our wrists, yet our puny front drive train is lacking.

Long story short, there are a few routes::
One-Get em from the yards, I believe any TOD zu will do. Will find out this weekend when I go yard scouting.

Two-Fork over the 600 bones for a new one

Three-Install non-TOD transfer case and swap to the Zu front driveshaft with universals vice CVs.

Perhaps I should start a new thread...........:bgwb:

[Triathlete]

Marlin, mine is shot also. My plan is to have a shaft custom built to fit using ujoints. I'll let you know what I find out.

[Marlin]

Marlin, mine is shot also. My plan is to have a shaft custom built to fit using ujoints. I'll let you know what I find out.

Hmm, not a horrible idea, I have some jeep friends that use square tubing for driveshafts, they just weld U-joints to the ends, if you tear one up, no worries...its easy to make a new one and they actually balance out just fine.

[Triathlete]

Square shafts don't balance well at all. Those that have them generally only use them for off road. Mine will use round tube for tod use on the highway when needed.

[RamAirZ]

I don't know if it was on here or Planet but I had discussed building the same thing Billy. Use yokes at each end for ujoints, weld a yoke in place of our cups and a yoke to the end of the splined part of the CV shaft. The main issue would be binding when turning while flexing since the u-joint would be trying to go 2 directions I think but in theory it should work. Be real easy to replace ujoints too.

[Triathlete]

The front drive shaft shouldn't see much movement on an IFS. So binding should not be an issue...I would think. Going to have to get it to a shop and see what they say. I spoke with someone in Moab that had done it on his Trooper so it should be possible.

[RamAirZ]

driveshaft or CV shaft? I was talking about replacing the CV. And what's everyone's issue with front driveshafts? They are a dime a dozen in the yard and don't look that different than any other shaft IMO.

[Triathlete]

Our front driveshaft has a cv in it...mine is shot. Makes a lot of noise and I can move it up and down about 1/2 an inch. I am going to see about getting a shaft made with ujoints instead of the cv. When I spoke to the guy in Moab he said his shop said $170 to rebuild his shaft or $90 to build a ujoint shaft that would be stronger...sounds like a win/win to me.

[RamAirZ]

I'm guessing they did that because of the TOD? My Passport uses the same length shaft and it just has a slip joint, no CV in it. I was talking about replacing our CV's on the front axle with a ujoint setup, that's where my binding thing came from.

[FlyingV77]

ok im ready for the hate...

whats the diferance betwen a ujoint and a cv?

[tom4bren]

No hate. Wikipedia has some fairly good write-ups on the topic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CV_joints

What it boils down to is that U-joints are simpler and stronger but have 2 limitations:

1. The joint requires scheduled maintenance
2. The 'drive' shaft and the 'driven' shaft must be parallel or a vibration will be introduced.

CVs are more complex (expensive) and not as strong. Additionally, they also have a weak link ... the boot. As long as the boot remains intact, the CVs require no maintenance. The main benefits are:

1. The 'drive' shaft and the 'driven' shaft can be at any angle in relation to each other (that's why you find them on front wheel drive cars - the compound angles introduced by suspension travel and steering).
2. They operate smoothly so do not introduce any vibrations.

[tom4bren]

The VX goes in the shop tonight to have the rebuilt half shafts installed. I would've installed them myself but this way the insurance pays for the rebuild. WooHoo, 4WD here I come.

I sent an online message to RCV with no response. I'll try calling them today & get the new guy's email addy & try that route.

[LittleBeast]

1. The joint requires scheduled maintenance
2. The 'drive' shaft and the 'driven' shaft must be parallel or a vibration will be introduced.

It is not that they have to be perfectly "parallel" to each other, it is just that the angle on the pinion at the transfer case has to be equal to the pinion angle at the differential at cruising/highway speed (in relation to the driveshaft). You normaly have to account for about 1-2 degrees of rotation of the differential (I think thy call it "loading") for both pinion angles to be equal at speed. This is why you need pinion angle adjustment after lifting or you will get drivetrain vibration. My next purchase will be adjustable lower links so that I can adjust the angle of the pinion at the diff to be equal to the pinion angle at the transfer case, because after lifting the angle at the transfer case has increased yet the pinion angle at the diff has in fact decreased (since lifting rotates the pinion at the transfer case to be less in line with the driveshaft, and rotates the pinion at the diff to be more in line with the driveshaft). Only other answer would be to have at least one joint on the rear driveshaft be a CV joint:

[Ldub]

My next purchase will be adjustable lower links so that I can adjust the angle of the pinion at the diff to be equal to the pinion angle at the transfer case,

Don't forget the adjustable upper link (https://www.independent4x.com/merchantmanager/product_info.php?cPath=1_12_23_30&products_id=50), to make your adjustment complete.

[LittleBeast]

Don't forget the adjustable upper link (https://www.independent4x.com/merchantmanager/product_info.php?cPath=1_12_23_30&products_id=50), to make your adjustment complete.

Yeah I have debated that one, but really only one "needs" to be adjustable. I would just get the adjustable upper link but adjusting that one to correct the angle would pull the rear tire even further forward in the wheel well, so I am going with the lower adjustable links and just having the upper link extended by a local welder slightly, like maybe 1/2" - 1" on top and I will have to adjust the bottom at least 2" longer probably.

[LittleBeast]

Interesting reads:
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/Driveline-101.shtml#OperatingAngle

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-shaft/index2.html

This is why we have vibrations after lifting :-)

[MSHardeman]

Ryan,

This is good info. Haven't completely read through everything yet, but I did see mention of resetting the pinion angle. I seem to remember someone (or two) having their rear diff "explode" after they reset the angle of the diff to try and help out with some driveline vibration issues (was it Bimati?). I'll have to check, but does resetting the pinion angle on the VX's rear end cause problems in the diff? Do they need to stay at the factory set angle?