HP HEAVEN - exp with modding our engine

[JHarris1385]

Here is their reply to me....



Hi John,



I did reply but it must not have gone through. Anyways, have you done any modifications already?



If your keeping it naturally aspirated we have seen substantial gains from the basic mods of a free flowing exhaust system. We recommened a 2.5 inch mandrel bent system with Pacemaker brand headers/extractors. If your race class allows it I would not use any mufflers at all or if you have to then obviously use 2.5 inch straight through items.



On the intake side of things over here in Australia the factory airbox was very very restrictive to keep noise down for emissions. Remove the whole box if possible on your model and use a K and N pod filter.



Lastly, we would suggest the use of an aftermarket ecu such as our own WOLF V500. With the above bolt on mods and then some ecu remapping you will be very surprised at how the car transforms. In our experience the 6VD1/6VE1 engines were heavily restricted from factory so theres a lot of power to be had just by releasing the restrictions imposed by Isuzu.



The above is just a bolt on stage and we have not done much with the autos so I don’t know how far you could push it.



If you get to the stage where you want to open the engine up for head work/ bottom end work then the very first thing needed to be addressed is the factory oil supply system to the bottom end bearings. Isuzu did a poor job of engineering in this area and when power levels start climbing its not a matter of if it will let go but when. The main problem is an oil supply issue to the number 6 bearing. It gets starved of oil and burns out leaving a nice hole in the side of the block if the rod grabs which nobody wants to have happen. There were many engines over here that were not modified in any way that had this problem occur. Keep your oil level in check lol.



Other things engineered by isuzu such as the ignition system seem to be very well done. We have seen well over 500kw at the wheels using the factory ignition with no type of amplification. The stock crank also showed no signs of cracking or any twisting at this power level also, but it was obviously balanced and prepped beforehand.



On the forced induction side of things then it first comes down to whether you want to supercharge or turbocharge. We have done both and had great power results but from our experience turbo charging is more beneficial. From a reliability, engineering and power potential point of view.



After that its just of matter of how much power you want to make. Theres still head work, pistons, rods etc for those people just wanting to make big numbers.



For your type of application a mildly powered responsive package is what you need. If forced induction is allowed in your race class then the most suited system would be a small turbocharged setup. This would give lightning response combined with decent top end power and no sign of lag. A small turbocharged 6VE1 drives like its a naturally aspirated 5 litre.



For the wolf V500 ecu, there are dealers already in USA who are familiar with the product.



Any other info you need feel free to ask.



Kind Regards,

Luke Amanatidis - Director

Mobile: 0403 045 577

Office: +61 03 9312 4555

Fax: +61 03 9312 4566

http://www.hpheaven.com.au

[kodiak]

This is the coolest email I have ever seen! Thanks John for getting this very valuable info for us.:thumbup:

[LittleBeast]

Wow, thanks a lot, I have already subscribed to this thread, just in case I run out of things to break while trying to make them better. Interesting stuff. So how hard would the ECU swap be?

[kodiak]

This is your new god, BOW YOUR HEADS! :evil:

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/Wolf_V500_ECU800.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11862)

[nfpgasmask]

I found this interesting:

"If you get to the stage where you want to open the engine up for head work/ bottom end work then the very first thing needed to be addressed is the factory oil supply system to the bottom end bearings. Isuzu did a poor job of engineering in this area and when power levels start climbing its not a matter of if it will let go but when. The main problem is an oil supply issue to the number 6 bearing. It gets starved of oil and burns out leaving a nice hole in the side of the block if the rod grabs which nobody wants to have happen. There were many engines over here that were not modified in any way that had this problem occur. Keep your oil level in check lol."

This would clearly explain why my oil consumption is greater when I am say, driving at highway speeds up mountains and such. I could wheel all day in low gear not burn a drop, but when I drive over the Sierras at 70MPH, I can easily burn a quart in that 2 hour trip alone.

Thanks J,

Bart

[taylorRichie]

This is your new god, BOW YOUR HEADS! :evil:

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/Wolf_V500_ECU800.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11862)

Here you go larry (LDUB) and all the other Supercharged folk...

Now let's see what your charger can really do.

--------

On another note for the $2,000-$2,500 price tag... you could just save for an LS1, which is the route I'd go if my engine got unhappy. ;)

[Joe Isuzu]

anyone know what the part number is for the K&N pod filter they mentioned, I checked a couple of sources and our engine wasn't mentioned
Is this something that we would have to get a close fit and then modify it? For people who have done it, any changes that may be noticed both positive and negative? Thanks!!!

[etlsport]

i think the pod filter they are talking about is just a universal 3" inlet cone style filter. the benefits are a much less restricted intake, the downside is a pretty significant heat gain, you could remedy that by putting in a heat shield of some kind but im pretty sure that would need to be fabbed on your own

[LittleBeast]

anyone know what the part number is for the K&N pod filter they mentioned, I checked a couple of sources and our engine wasn't mentioned
Is this something that we would have to get a close fit and then modify it? For people who have done it, any changes that may be noticed both positive and negative? Thanks!!!

Uh, it is louder, especially under heavy throttle, like a sucking sound under the hood, but I did notice an immediate butt dyno increase in horsepower, whatever that is worth.
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/AEMdryFilter.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10804)

[JHarris1385]

They are a little slow to respond but once they do they are very helpfull.

[taylorRichie]

As long as ya gonna dream...:naughty:

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=WRL%2D1010099&autoview=sku

I'd like to go with this one :D

http://turnkeyenginesupply.com/or_57530.htm

But as long as we're dreaming...

http://turnkeyenginesupply.com/or_62700.htm

Yep... I'll let you know when it's completed.

[Joe Isuzu]

Uh, it is louder, especially under heavy throttle, like a sucking sound under the hood, but I did notice an immediate butt dyno increase in horsepower, whatever that is worth.
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/AEMdryFilter.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10804)

Um, given my recent experience with performance mufflers, I might as well give up on this idea, I think it would be different if the VX was somewhat quiet originally b/c then you could gradually get louder, but seeing as how our poor thing already is so loud it really doesn't take much to get intolerable to me
and yes, I've already dynamatted (?) it

[twistedsymphony]

Carburetors are for old folks who are afraid of that new fangled computer stuff.. :p

LS engines for the win... best bang for your buck anywhere in the automotive scene. :cool:

[JHarris1385]

BUMP - Another post has been made with info from these guys.

[twistedsymphony]

cool :cool:

and now that I've re-read this thread... I think I actually have a 3" pod filter just laying around :p

FWIW warm air through the intake will help fuel economy... colder air will hurt it (but help performance) a more free flowing intake will help both. :bwgy:

[Ldub]

i think the pod filter they are talking about is just a universal 3" inlet cone style filter. the benefits are a much less restricted intake, the downside is a pretty significant heat gain, you could remedy that by putting in a heat shield of some kind but im pretty sure that would need to be fabbed on your own

It can be done with some serious surgery to the stock air box...:naughty:

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSC00722.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSC00724.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSC00725.JPG

[LittleBeast]

^What a master piece.....

[Ldub]

^What a master piece.....

Thanks Man...it ain't exactly pretty, & has a few rough edges here & there, but in side by side testing with Kenny's VX on the same stretch of road, at the same time, my intake air temp was about six degrees cooler due to all the insulation I've done on the inside of the box & also the inner walls of the c/f intake toob.:_wrench:

[LittleBeast]

Yeah mine is the Morgan Tech with absolutely NO heat shielding at all!!!!! I need to fix something up, thanks for reminding me of another thing I need to do. Maybe I can do that when I finally install those shiny new red radiator hoses ;) Seriously though you have given me some great ideas of how to pull this off, what heat shielding material did you use?

[Ldub]

Yeah mine is the Morgan Tech with absolutely NO heat shielding at all!!!!! I need to fix something up, thanks for reminding me of another thing I need to do. Maybe I can do that when I finally install those shiny new red radiator hoses ;) Seriously though you have given me some great ideas of how to pull this off, what heat shielding material did you use?

That green stuff you see on the rear edge of the box is 1/4", foil faced styrofoam commonly used behind steel siding. I cut pieces to fit wherever I could & glued them in place with silicone.
I packed plain old fiberglass insulation between the inner (straight through aluminium) & the outer (c/f) walls of the intake tube.
I saw a pretty slick heat shield/air box made from a rubbermaid wastebasket, I think it was Hotsauce?

[Ldub]

My mistake, it was Hotsauce, but it was a yellow gas or kerosene can, not a wastebasket... check his gallery.:smilewink

[psychos2]

I do not think they know much about this engine at all. They talk about the # 6 rod bearing being the bearing that fails ,when it is the #1 rod bearing.Also in my opinion it is due to lack of oil not lack of pressure. The oil system in our engine feeds the front of the motor first if I remember correctly. shawn

[JHarris1385]

If it feeds the front first would it not be the first to be filled and back to be left possibly dry?

It states the lack of oil pressure is the reasoning for the oil or burning thereof.

[USMCvxOFFROAD]

anyone looked into this yet?

http://www.hpheaven.com.au/store/parts-accessories/info/662/hph-6ve1-race-prepped-block/?cat1=25&catid=0&page=1

[wintermute]

Does anyone know which Pacemaker headers he is referring to, or which would fit the VX? The Pacemaker catalog doesn't seem to mention anything for Isuzu, Acura, or Honda. Or do you need to have these custom made?

[vt_maverick]

Trolling the catacombs again Dub?

[Ldub]

Trolling the catacombs again Dub?

Naaaa...me be think'n I posted a reply in a link I was on, when I got side tracked...:mbrasd:

:thanx: for the hedz up...:thumbup:

deleting knot head post.

[89Vette]

I do not think they know much about this engine at all. They talk about the # 6 rod bearing being the bearing that fails ,when it is the #1 rod bearing.

I agree but for other reasons. As someone who's spent too much time in a performance forum (for Corvettes), the "canned" answer sent to JHarris (the OP) was a bit to contrived.

Typically, modern engines have more than adequate supply for intake air. Making it colder won't hurt MPG and it might help a bit. It might help with power too...but only VERY slightly. Again, it's due to well-designed factory systems.

The ECM is the same issue. Factories want to get the best out of factory performance and any limitation will come from intake, heads, cam, headers, and exhaust. It's the mechanical configuration of an engine that will make/break it. Because of the ODB2 system and intake config, you see a 4k pound vehicle doing pretty well in terms of speed/performance. I think MPG could be a bit better -- but that's because ISUZU was looking for a flagship performer -- not necessarily a fuel sipper. If I got into the tuning parameters of this motor, I'd double-check the PE (performance enhancement) parameters to make sure it didn't hit power AFR sooner than "normal". Maybe another thing or two as well.

For the size motor (3.5L), a 2" exhaust isn't out of the question. Going bigger (and especially too big) will hurt off-idle and low-end performance. Not something you want to do to a street engine or one doing off-road duty. This is the kind of stuff you do for a 1/4m race car. And, the VX wasn't designed for that. If that's what you want to make it, you'll need to shoehorn a V8 along with that "Wolf" ECM.

Cats (since early 1990's) have gotten way less restrive. Plus, everyone has tried the gammit of mufflers. Short of doing this 2.5" exhaust and trying to get to 100mph faster, I think the OEM exhaust isn't setup that bad. I'd like it better if the PS didn't wrap over to the DS -- into a single outlet -- but that can be altered easy enough. There are a couple of nice dual exhaust systems on this board to emulate.

For real performance, ported heads, a cam, headers and retuning would be the ticket. I'm not seeing enough interest (in this forum) for that sort of thing. Considering the stock compression ratio is low enough, I think super- or turbo-charging is the way to go. Looks like a few have gone that route too!

I love the roots-style SCs I've seen. I think it would be cool to have one!

:cheers!:

[HeckaTrebeka]

If it feeds the front first would it not be the first to be filled and back to be left possibly dry?

It states the lack of oil pressure is the reasoning for the oil or burning thereof.

So wouldn't replacing the stock oil pump with a high flow version fix this issue? I think there are other factors at play here.