Hood Insert Project

[Vehi-Cross-Az]

Im going forward with my new hood insert project
Im going to put a WRX hoodscoop on one and make
a mold off it and start making whole new Insert with
the scoop molded in as one pcs.
Only making it out of fiberglass.
If anyone has a damaged insert Id be willing to buy
it and pay shipping if the cost is right.
If not, Ill just pull mine off and use it as the mock up
piece.
If you have one, email me directly and lets talk about
it.

Est time to have ready, 2-3 months.
Not sure exactly of cost yet.

thanks
Dayle

motorsport_svx@yahoo.com

[JoFotoz]

Dayle...you have mail!



If you have one, email me directly and lets talk about
it.


jo

[Vehi-Cross-Az]

btw, if the WRX scoop isnt everyone first choice
Im up for suggestions before we do it.

[Vehi-Cross-Az]

I like this scoop actually more
and think is a better option

[snowtrooper1966]

Cowl induction, please! Not ram air....
Best,

[So-CalVX]

as anyone looked at the scoop that the 4runner had for a few years back in like 99-00? I think that one would look good on the VX. Either that or a heat extractor/cowl induction scoop.
edit, found a couple pics...http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/Hood1.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11675) http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/hood2.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11676) but now that i get to thinking about it, u prolly jus wanna do it all easy like with no chopping of another hood huh? i jus think the 4runner scoop would look cool.
my .02 cents

[Thmstec]

gotta agree with the cowl induction, but I do like the look of that 2nd option. And I'll be a probable customer seeing as though mine is faded and looks like crap. Just gotta price it right for me ;)

[Vehi-Cross-Az]

thats easy enough, I can just flip that scoop
backwards and take some pics tomorrow..
I like forward facing myself, but Ill go where there
is more interest. It only makes sense.
Extracting hot air can only help for those willing to
cut a hole in their hoods.

[johnnyapollo]

The issue with reversing the scoop is you'll be placing heat right at the leading edge of the windshield, right where intakes for "fresh" air to the AC/Fan are (provided you cut the hood and it's functional) - you'll notice that most extractor set-ups place the openings on the sides of the hood to help prevent the air from circulating back into the cabin. I already smell the foul air produced by the breather filters (instead of going back into the TB, I've got a breather filter on the passenger valve cover) and it can get pretty bad and that's just the smell without the heat! - just something to think about.

-- John

[WormGod]

This weekend I FINALLY modded in my ram air. Been sitting on this one for about 3 years and forced myself to tear it down and set it up. Ran plumbing from the small ports in the front cladding, around the lower/front radiator support, back and up through the wheel well (under the inner well cover), and into the OEM airbox. And I will admit, the maiden voyage showed promise. At speed, that extra forced, cool air gave it some more "oomph".

The 2 things left to do:

- set up the plumbing to marry to the Tornado canister from Tone.

- Finish modding the CAI to be less of a hulking monstrosity.

(thanks again John for the Alpine hose)

In regards to induction/extraction, I would desperately love to find a way to pull some of that heat out of the engine bay. I am thinking of going back to my OEM hood insert now since I decided that I am not gonna port the hood to make the scoop functional (lets face it.... a hole in the hood with a scoop is hardly functional for any reason without solid air porting anyways). Our engine bay is pretty cramped and room for porting is minimal, so getting heat OUT is another problem altogether. And seriously, when you pop that hood after even just a short ride, peeking in will singe off your eyebrows. :eek:

I am ALWAYS down for sharing ideas on extraction .

Hey John, speaking of breather filters, how long is your plumbing? Considering it isnt married to the intake any longer, it must get a healthy dose of super heated air, like mine. Mine does since the plumbing is only about 5" off the valve cover. I have been considering extending that to locate the filter in a cooler but dry area but have come up short in finding a good location where cool and dry are hand in hand.

The VX is back in the laboratory, as you can see, heh.

[johnnyapollo]

Sorry if I'm highjacking the thread -

Gary, I ran a CAI directly from the TB on the SC to the enclosed filter to the fender hole - it made the temp gauge noticeably cooler (it ran slightly hot with a regular straight tube-to-cone filter setup). Here's a photo:

http://www.wildtoys.com/vehicross/VX_Mods/ModsSCIntake_600.jpg

The front of the filter enclosure turns into the hole using a fitting so it's pulling directly from the fender.

However, I just pulled the unit off and replaced with my old manifold (pulled the injectors, rail, FPR, EGR and sensors offa that extra complete Trooper manifold I got on eBay last year for $35). I'm sending the SC off to get rebuilt as the rear drive bearing was sounding like it was about to shear off. Everything was going fine until last night when I threw a CEL - I'm about to go out and diagnose the numbers (thankfully I'm off today). It could be one of the injectors as you couldn't noticeably feel the pulsing or it might be a manifold gasket leak (I reused the old - stupid but I figured for a temp setup it should be OK - prolly a mistake). The other possiblitiy is a lean 02 sensor (ran some low grade fuel with injector cleaner). I'll keep you updated.

-- John

[WormGod]

Very similar to the setup I just did John. I am using the stock airbox fender hole location as well, but just ran my plumbing through there from the from cladding port. I think this option is the safest compared to trying to get some sort of ram air out of a forward hood scoop, considering measures need to be taken concerning moisture. Might look more aggressive, but I think it's too much work for a minimal payoff. I just need to do a few minor tweaks to get the Tornado shell to fit with my gigantic C/F intake. I am close, just need the willpower to withstand the evening 100f heat in my garage, heh.

See the behemoth I am working with....

http://www.wormgod.8m.com/Images/Ebony/SC/Final/blown03.jpg

Still interested in seeing what Dayle can pull off here though. Visually, a scoop turns a kitten into a tiger, heh. :bgwo:

[technocoy]

I liked the extraction that used to be on that silver and purple VX that was an audio competitor or something?

It made use of the scale and impactof the entire insert.

The thing that bugs me with just planting a scoop in the middle of the insert is that from a design perspective it becomes repetitive and funny in terms of scale. It visually starts to look like a scoop within a scoop since we already have the hood being broken up by the insert.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers.

[technocoy]

eh, I had remembered this a bit different...

If you ditch the second tier of the design (the upper part) I like the shape of this. The top part is too square and too much for the design, but the underlying form is nice.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/2132/ppuser/20/sl/r

[technocoy]

if you have a forward scoop, would it make sense from a performance standpoint if it was further to the front of the hood? If so, I think I'm going to photoshop an idea.

[Techy-D]

Anybody try anything like this?
Sorry, I grabbed the first photo out of the galery for my quick edit job.

Just a thought.http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/TestScoopIdea.JPG (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11681)

[JoFotoz]

Sorry Techy , but that's a big .. :thumbdn: ..from me.

jo

[Cobrajet]

You need a scoop that is both functional and self explanatory... Like the AMC Scrambler! :bgwo:

http://photos.webridestv.com/datastore/images/user/a73d4e32cc0d9e45692cbb9c2b21b003/Dodge_Challenger_TA_1970_85755_20080608_l.jpg
http://photos.webridestv.com/datastore/images/user/a73d4e32cc0d9e45692cbb9c2b21b003/Dodge_Challenger_TA_1970_85746_20080608_l.jpg

I'm kinda partial to the shaker scoop myself!
http://www.torinocobra.com/images/car_cutoutRev.jpg

[snowtrooper1966]

Allright, you got me thinking back to my MOPAR days. The reason I was thinking cowl INDUCDTION, was I did not want a forward facing scoop to grab snow during the season. But there was a MOPAR design that allowed the driver to activate the ram air scoop from inside the cabin:

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o23/snowtrooper1966/airgrabber.jpg

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o23/snowtrooper1966/airgrabber1.jpg

I think I will investigate this a bit further. It would be sick to have a scoop on the dragon that has teeth and harkens back to my old muscle at the same time. You cant beat the "fliying tiger" inspired teeth design on this scoop, IMHO.
Best,

[johnnyapollo]

OK, back to the scoop. There are generally three very different effects that are considered desirable that involve piercing the hood for a scoop:

1. Forced air systems - this involves supercharging or otherwise inducing higher air pressures in an intake plenum - the engine compensates by increasing fuel producing more "pounds" of pressure which boosts engine performance. Just about any opening to the outside can improve performance as the SC itself pulls in air mechanically (why most go to a cold air intake system that vents to the fender hole in the VX). If you can get the opening right in the air flow you maximize the cooling effect (see number 2).

2. Ram air systems - this works if the opening to the outside is placed somewhere so that when the vehicle is in motion the force of air movement increases the pressue in the intake, thus producing slightly higher pressures and you get a performance gain. Unfortunately, if you map the airflow across the hood the leading edge forces air over the hood about 6-8 inches before it dives back in right at the leading edge of the window. What that means is that for an induction scoop to be effective, it would need to hit the air starting about 6 inches above the hood, a three inch opening would extend 9 inches above the hood or so (this all depends on where you're mapping the air as it forms a large-radius curve so the height varies). This is actually fairly typical and why you see supercharged street rods with the huge scoop extending to the roofline or above to get the most benefit (relates back to number 1).

3. Inducted air systems - basically a hole that lets in outside air (cooler than whats under the hood). If you really look at the scoop on the scoobies it doesn't go to the intake and most other low-profile scoops you see actually go to an intercooler (it's really pulling "exterior air" without a ram-air effect - it vents to the outside to take advantage of slightly cooler outside air temps). If the openings are to the back of the hood, vehicle motion can induce a cooling effect that exits heated air through the openings (sometimes called reducted or something like that). It really takes a bit more than that to get a measurable difference but that's a starting point (to be most effective airflow would be engineered using baffles, etc to direct the air over the motor so it would exit through these venting ports).

So in summary, for a supercharged VX a CAI setup to the fender seems to be optimal (so no scoop needed) - for maximum effect a huge scoop that extends above the air-foil into moving air would be needed as the hood opening. For Ram-air on the VX, the leading edge of the hood is about the only surface where an opening could be made that would actually induce a ram-air effect - you'd have to go to the front of the truck itself for more benefit when in motion (hardly any benefit when not moving). For inducted air, just about any exterior opening would suffice, but since the VX doesn't have an intercoolor it doesn't have much effect - creating openings in the back of the hood would help to pull heat from the engine compartment, but then you're just pulling it into the cabin due to the placment of venting (raises cabin temps and pulls in nasty engine smells).

So forward facing, low profile scoops on the VX are really mostly for looks. Even cutting open the hood would have little cooling benefit (and it could actually be detrimental by dumping solids in the air on the block - think about running water over the engine while it's running (if you're using an unshielded cone filter you can get it in the intake), water in the alternator, etc.

and that's the scoop.

-- John

[Joe Isuzu]

wow John! good input!

[VehiGAZ]

Hey John, [...] how long is your plumbing?

That's a very personal question, isn't it?! :laughing:

[WormGod]

John summed that up well. :cool:

Even with a forward scoop, without proper channeling of the air once it enters at speed, it does you no good.It's just cooler (than engine bay) air that is being forced in and then heated up with the rest of the air, with no use.

What you need is to get that forced in air to the intake (whatever option you use - CAI, airbox, etc). Getting the air there before it is warmed is ideal.

A forward scoop with a hole in the hood has 2 uses a few uses:

- lets cooler, fresher air in at speed.... but this new air is basically useless to you (must be captured and directed to the right area)

- well, it looks kinda neat, right? :cool:

- lets rodents have an access route for finding warm places in the winter :p

What I find ideal is, getting the air to where it is most useful and ALSO being able to pull the warm air from the engine bay in general. I am unsure that we get enough flow over the hood at speed to have a fruitful "draw" of air to be pulled from some sort of insert extraction. This is the mud hole I sit in now. I am considering pulling off the OEM skid plating below the engine bay to promote more flow, but it may not be enough to even bother with. Then, looking at cowl options, whether they be insert related or actual hood modifications.

God! Dont you just love projects?! :cool:

[Techy-D]

Sorry Techy , but that's a big .. :thumbdn: ..from me.

jo


Hey, I spent like 2 minutes on that. :rolleyes: :p
I think it may be something that would grab some of that leading edge air and wouldn't have the "scoop on a scoop" look, but I don't think I would do that to mine either.


Snowtrooper - I also see that you too enjoy Mopars! I've had the same thought and actually my little sketch was thinking along those lines. I have a Lemontwist/Velvet black, 383HiPro, 70RR with Airgrabber, but sadly it's still one of those projects that's in pieces and under a tarp (SOME DAY).

[Vehi-Cross-Az]

for the new part was to replace the stock panels
that look crummy over age, and make paintable..
and the scoop was just for looks anyway.
I dont see any way to really put a scoop forward enough
to make any difference facing forward or even reversed.
Why not make the Vx look better if it can and doesnt cost
alot of $.
At the very least if you opened it up underneath you could
get some cool and hot air out of the opening either while
driving or after its parked.
Leaning towards this scoop or the Sti style still.

[Gussie2000]

I like this scoop actually more
and think is a better option

YEs that scoop looks very good though.

Can you tell where can i purchase one ?

[Gussie2000]

[QUOTE=WormGod;131113]John summed that up well. :cool:

Even with a forward scoop, without proper channeling of the air once it enters at speed, it does you no good.It's just cooler (than engine bay) air that is being forced in and then heated up with the rest of the air, with no use.

What you need is to get that forced in air to the intake (whatever option you use - CAI, airbox, etc). Getting the air there before it is warmed is ideal.

A forward scoop with a hole in the hood has 2 uses a few uses:

- lets cooler, fresher air in at speed.... but this new air is basically useless to you (must be captured and directed to the right area)

- well, it looks kinda neat, right? :cool:

Hey guys there's something that always wonder in my mind .... :rolleyes:

If you mod the hood to add a functional scoop to the intake how do you avoid water getting into the intake ?

Sorry,it sounds dummy & i do admited :confused:

[Vehi-Cross-Az]

If all goes well, Im going to have a complete new
hood panel with the scoop molded in, so its essentially
a one pcs design.
Maybe by Oct.
I can get the scoops all day long but they have to be
modded some to correctly bolt on the stock panel.

Again, Im more concerned about looks more then anything else.

[JoFotoz]

So ...the blank Hood insert I offered you~~ is no longer required?

Just trying to keep track?


Ya wanted it...then ya didnt....or Don't...?

Jo






If all goes well, Im going to have a complete new
hood panel with the scoop molded in, so its essentially
a one pcs design.
Maybe by Oct.
I can get the scoops all day long but they have to be
modded some to correctly bolt on the stock panel.

Again, Im more concerned about looks more then anything else.

[Vehi-Cross-Az]

most of it depends on the response I get from
the site on the project, which really hasnt been
all that positive. It has to be cost effective or it
really isnt worth doing.

If bolting on a scoops works just as well even
then the project may get scrapped..

but thanks, Ill be in touch about your panel.

[So-CalVX]

what's the comparison in price for the one piece scooped insert and the bolt on scoop gonna be though. I think if u were to let that info out u'd get more honest answers.

[WormGod]

Plumbing that cool, fresh air to your intake is key, BUT, moisture is also a huge problem. The last thing you want to do is to turn your intake filter into a wet diaper. You'll notice that the stock airbox is fed by air through the left front fender. The plumbing for this also has some elbow work to get air that from an upper-most angle of the inside fender and then again with another elbow once inside the engine bay, before it reaches the filter. The filter is then loacted ABOVE the intake port so altogether, you get maximum moisture diversion. This is very typical on just about every modern vehicle.

Coming up with something aftermarket that plumbs to the intake is tricky and really involves a lot of thoughts and care. Simply testing out different channels is not the best route to go and usually what will work best isnt gonna be the prettiest thing. I had and tried some ideas in the passed years and never came up with anything that worked well that was pretty and offered moisture protection. Its always been an uphill battle with this with me.

[Vehi-Cross-Az]

what's the comparison in price for the one piece scooped insert and the bolt on scoop gonna be though. I think if u were to let that info out u'd get more honest answers.


no ones even asked about prices, till maybe now
and I cant even say because it depends on how many
full panels we make and get committments for..
(which is pretty small right now)

If you want me to guess, sure my guess would be the
panel can run between $180-280 plus shipping...
again that all depends on how many we get made per
batch.

The scoops alone ? this one I picked up used, so not sure
what they cost new....my guess around $100 each
or more maybe new.
Again, with little to no interest, whats the point of looking
for them.
If I want it on my vehicle, I guess I only need one, right.?