R1 Concepts Brakes and Rotors

[nfpgasmask]

So, I was running the R1 Concepts brake pads and drilled/slotted rotors for over a year. I have posted about this before, and I have not been happy with this setup. The R1 brake and rotor combo was mushy and braking was poor (scary really) right from the start.

I talked to Kenny about this, and he mentioned that it was the pad thickness. So I ordered a set of stock pads and had these put on in place of the R1 pads this past Saturday. I just want to say that Kenny was right. The stock pads are the way to go. Keeping the R1 rotors, which are much more affordable than stock, the stock pads grip hard and fast, just like I remember before I had the R1 pads.

So, to anyone considering/running R1 pads and rotors, just use the rotors and get a set of stock pads from Merlin.

MUCH BETTER.

Bart

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

I've been running the R1 Concepts drilled/slotted rotors with PBR/AXXIS Ultimate Pads in conjunction with the Independent 4X4's Stainless Steel Brake Line Kit and love the feel. The fronts tend to gather lots of brake dust though so periodic cleaning is a must!

[nfpgasmask]

I've been running the R1 Concepts drilled/slotted rotors with PBR/AXXIS Ultimate Pads in conjunction with the Independent 4X4's Stainless Steel Brake Line Kit and love the feel. The fronts tend to gather lots of brake dust though so periodic cleaning is a must!

Yeah, I think the pads are important. For whatever reason, the R1s were NOT good on my VX.

Bart

[pbkid]

hey while we are talking about brakes....

i remember one of my friends has a 4runner with what he used to call a brake bias controller and i really want one now that i am more into four wheeling...

basically it was a knob that he could turn to make it so that he could control how much braking power was sent to the front and rear wheels.....

he used it for really steep declines to send more braking to the rear so that his truck wouldn't lean as far forward and the same for climbing so that he wouldnt go up on his rear tires as much if he hit his brakes hard....

i searched all over the net for this and i cant find it....any one have any ideas or heard of that before???

or was this just something he used to tell me about that was complete crap???

sorry, didnt mean to thread jack...

[Ldub]

hey while we are talking about brakes....

i remember one of my friends has a 4runner with what he used to call a brake bias controller and i really want one now that i am more into four wheeling...

basically it was a knob that he could turn to make it so that he could control how much braking power was sent to the front and rear wheels.....

he used it for really steep declines to send more braking to the rear so that his truck wouldn't lean as far forward and the same for climbing so that he wouldnt go up on his rear tires as much if he hit his brakes hard....

i searched all over the net for this and i cant find it....any one have any ideas or heard of that before???

or was this just something he used to tell me about that was complete crap???

sorry, didnt mean to thread jack...

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=WIL%2D340%2D4990&N=700+4294922533+4294915216+115&autoview=sku

[pbkid]

damn your good.....

[snowtrooper1966]

Hey, Bart!
Are these the brakes you are talking about?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=011&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=320243868986&rd=1

Is there a place to get them for less?
James

[nfpgasmask]

Hey, Bart!
Are these the brakes you are talking about?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=011&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=320243868986&rd=1

Is there a place to get them for less?
James

Hey James,

Yes, those are the rotors I have. I bought their full front/rear rotor/brake pad package for like $200 something. That IS a good price for a full set of rotors and pads. VX stock pads and rotors will run you nearly $800 from Merlin (see this thread http://vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=10155&highlight=suggest+brakes). So no, I have no idea where to get cheaper stuff!! :) Like I said, the rotors are good, but get stock pads.

Bart

[snowtrooper1966]

Thanks, Bart!
R1 rotors, stock pads, steel braided lines.....
James

[Gussie2000]

I had R1 rotors installed in my VX two weeks ago,but i didn't purchase their brake pads,i went & buy a canadian made brand called SATISFIED i choose the ceramic non-abestos dust model & seems to be the great so far,great braking :)

[nfpgasmask]

I had R1 rotors installed in my VX two weeks ago,but i didn't purchase their brake pads,i went & buy a canadian made brand called SATISFIED i choose the ceramic non-abestos dust model & seems to be the great so far,great braking :)

Yeah, I think the bottom line with the R1 pads is that they are not thick enough, at least that's what Kenny told me he found out, which makes since.

Bart

[Mr.Badguy]

i bought the R1 concept set up last year after having a grinding problem with the brakes that came with the car...no idea if they were stock or not, but they weren't slotted or drilled rotors. ANYWAY... i have really liked the R1 rotors, no noise and very little dust. i think the pads need to be replaced though after a year and 3 months of having them. the rotors look good. I think what everyone is saying about the rotors and pads is a good way to go. I never had problems from the start of putting them on, but now it seems i need new pads.

[Gussie2000]

Yeah ! that was my toughts too,installing such as important parts as the brake pads should be always purchased in person so you can have a full knowlegde & perception of what you adding to your car's brake system ;)

[snowtrooper1966]

So, I got the R1 Concepts rotors when I was down south a few weeks ago, and called Merlin the other day for the pads. They want close to 200 bucks for OEM set:(
Can I go to an autoparts store and expect to get the right pads?
Best,

[Ldub]

Thanks, Bart!
R1 rotors, stock pads, steel braided lines.....
James

You had a pretty firm grasp of the situation...:smilewink

OEM pads are the $hizz, & cost more for a reason...they're worth it.:thumbup:

[nfpgasmask]

You had a pretty firm grasp of the situation...:smilewink

OEM pads are the $hizz, & cost more for a reason...they're worth it.:thumbup:

I agree with Master Dub, the R1 rotors are cheap, but work good, spend your money on the pads from Merlin. I don't remember what I paid, I think it was something like $90 up front and $80 for the rears, but they should last and you can never be too safe with brakes.

Bart

[snowtrooper1966]

You guys crack me up.
Expensive OEM pads from Merlin it is then.
Am I back in compliance with the "grip 'O meter" sir dub?
Best,

[Ldub]

You guys crack me up.
Expensive OEM pads from Merlin it is then.
Am I back in compliance with the "grip 'O meter" sir dub?
Best,

LOL...:razzgray: grip-o-meter...as IF I've ever had even the slightest grasp on reality...:smilewink

Yeah, you seem to be getting massive traction on the subject of brake pads...:thumbup:
HOWEVER...I did just get back from an ebay shopping excursion, & there are TONS of cheap pads there...:naughty:
If that's what you REALLY want for stopping you & the fam...:rotate:

No pressure though...:rolleyesg

[snowtrooper1966]

I did see some of those pads on eBay recently, just don't know which ones would be close to OEM specs, and am sure therein lies the problem.
I remember waaayyyy back when I had a motorcycle, reading an ad for Bell helmets. It said something to the effect of:
"If you have a $50 dollar head, go buy a cheap helmet"
I am sure that applies here as well...
Thanks,

[Ldub]

Since we're still sort of on the topic of my ebay shopping excursion...:rolleyesg

These Magnum, drilled only rotors have been enticing me for a while now...
$178.00 for all four, to my door is VERRY tempting...:naughty:




http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Magnum-drilled-rotors-Isuzu-Amgio-Trooper-Vehicross-F-R_W0QQitemZ380036050465QQihZ025QQcategoryZ33564QQs sPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem



Does anyone have any experience with/feedback on this vendor.
Some of his feedback comments are NOT good, but still almost 97%.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/0001amagro.jpg

[snowtrooper1966]

Why would you consider those over the proven R1 Conecepts?
Best,

[Ldub]

Why would you consider those over the proven R1 Conecepts?
Best,

I prefer the appearance of drilled only rotors, & the price i$ attractive too.

[snowtrooper1966]

10-4!
Won't you however be giving up the advantage of the self cleaning feature of the slots, thus potentially extending the life of rotor/pad?
Best,

[Ldub]

10-4!
Won't you however be giving up the advantage of the self cleaning feature of the slots, thus potentially extending the life of rotor/pad?
Best,

That's one opinion on drilled only vs drilled/slotted...
For another, read further down in the link I posted...:_wrench:

[Solitude]

Does anyone have any experience with/feedback on this vendor.
Some of his feedback comments are NOT good, but still almost 97%.

Hello.. My only issue with the feedback system in the past and it might have changed... is...

The statement in alot of stores "fine print" says.. will give "like" feedback..
which to me means.. if you dis me in feedback I will dis you..
so I dont take alot of stock in high feedback numbers..

Just 1 persons opinion

peace
Jeff

[snowtrooper1966]

Sweet, so I may have purchased 160 dollar pad slicers!;) Now I really can't wait to but the expensive set!:bwgy:
Best,

[snowtrooper1966]

That seller has 14 negatives in the past month alone, with a smattering of nuterals. Not a good percentage. Be prepared to wait, that seems to be the biggest gripe.
Best,

[Ldub]

Sweet, so I may have purchased 160 dollar pad slicers!;) Now I really can't wait to but the expensive set!:bwgy:
Best,

My opinion on the claims either seller makes is:
It's about 80-90% marketing, 10-15% hype & maybe 5% truth.
I just like the way drilled only ones look...don't know yet if I'll ever hit "the" button...:smilewink

[snowtrooper1966]

Good to know. Go ahead and hit the button. By the time you get the rotors I should have the pads and we can do a very unscientific comparative test;)
Best,

[Ldub]

Good to know. Go ahead and hit the button. By the time you get the rotors I should have the pads and we can do a very unscientific comparative test;)
Best,

It actually would be fairly scientific, since I already have a new set of OEM pads in inventory...:thumbup:

However, the results would be skewed by the difference in terrain. :smilewink
While you live in a ski area, which I would presume includes areas in which the elevation changes rapidly, I live in an area where I have to drive for an hour to see a good sized bump in the ground...:rolleyesg

[snowtrooper1966]

Well, you could hang about the "good sized bump" for a week (but only if there are lots of "gapers"-tourists that don't know the area, and left on road courtesy @ home-), activate your supercharger and stress your brakes as much as possible, to similate daily mountain resort driving;)
Best,

[Kenny]

Dub, my $0.02: Go with the nickel plated set - saves a bit of painting to keep corrosion down - assuming the plating is decent quality and lasts...

They'll look cool with your 20" rapper rims.:smilewink



Since we're still sort of on the topic of my ebay shopping excursion...:rolleyesg

These Magnum, drilled only rotors have been enticing me for a while now...
$178.00 for all four, to my door is VERRY tempting...:naughty:




http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Magnum-drilled-rotors-Isuzu-Amgio-Trooper-Vehicross-F-R_W0QQitemZ380036050465QQihZ025QQcategoryZ33564QQs sPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem



Does anyone have any experience with/feedback on this vendor.
Some of his feedback comments are NOT good, but still almost 97%.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/0001amagro.jpg

[Ldub]

Dub, my $0.02: Go with the nickel plated set - saves a bit of painting to keep corrosion down - assuming the plating is decent quality and lasts...

They'll look cool with your 20" rapper rims.:smilewink

Dems gangsta rims Dog...;wtf;...:_thinking...:laughing:

I was thinking of plated or silver painted, still not sure I'll even get them.

[Gussie2000]

That's one opinion on drilled only vs drilled/slotted...
For another, read further down in the link I posted...:_wrench:

Hey buddy if you decide to install drilled, slotted rotors go for the R1 concepts.

They are better & their customer services is excelent,you can pay over the phone,ask questions, etc.

I purchased R1 concepts rotors & so far the have hold up very good.
The pads you shall go in person & get them at auto store.Just get the very best you can afford to.

[Ldub]

since I already have a new set of OEM pads in inventory...:thumbup:



The pads you shall go in person & get them at auto store.Just get the very best you can afford to.


:rolleyesg...:smilewink

[taylorRichie]

Are the R1s a good alternative to Stock Rotors, Or are they an improvement. With my new Wheels/Tires I'm in need of an upgrade... My brakes were replaced about 5K ago (previous owner) Both Rotors and Pads (pads are a ceramic dust free I believe) And Rotors I'm fairly certain are OE. (I'll have to check the receipts).

Is there any "big brake" kit that's compatible with our vehicles? Are our stock calipers plenty good?

Just tryin' to be safe here ;)

[Ldub]

Are the R1s a good alternative to Stock Rotors, Or are they an improvement. With my new Wheels/Tires I'm in need of an upgrade... My brakes were replaced about 5K ago (previous owner) Both Rotors and Pads (pads are a ceramic dust free I believe) And Rotors I'm fairly certain are OE. (I'll have to check the receipts).

Is there any "big brake" kit that's compatible with our vehicles? Are our stock calipers plenty good?

Just tryin' to be safe here ;)

About the biggest bang for your buck is the stainless steel brake lines.

I've never seen "big brake" or multi piston calipers offered for our application.

[MSHardeman]

Dub,

I know that they are a little more expensive than the R1 rotors, but I have been extremely happy with my drilled and slotted SP Performance rotors. They grab like a son-of-a-wench and look great doing it. The holes have a radiused edge so they won't wear out the brake pads too fast and the coating that they came with still looks good so far (no rust).

The guy I ordered from was in Georgia and called me on a Saturday after I had bought the rotors to make sure that they where exactly what I was looking for. Nice guy.

That's my two cents.

[Ldub]

Dub,

I know that they are a little more expensive than the R1 rotors, but I have been extremely happy with my drilled and slotted SP Performance rotors. They grab like a son-of-a-wench and look great doing it. The holes have a radiused edge so they won't wear out the brake pads too fast and the coating that they came with still looks good so far (no rust).

The guy I ordered from was in Georgia and called me on a Saturday after I had bought the rotors to make sure that they where exactly what I was looking for. Nice guy.

That's my two cents.

Thanks Mark,

I had forgotten about the SP rotors, I'll be sure to give them a look before making any final decision. IIRC, they had the option of drilled only.:cool:

[Ldub]

Mark,

Just got an email quote from SP...$420.00.:rolleyesg
More than twice the cost of the Magnums & they won't do drilled only.:sighwgray
I'm not sure if that price includes shipping, but they want another $70.00 for the nickel plating on all four.

I'm sure their quality is higher, but man...I don't think I can afford that much quality.:smilewink

[MSHardeman]

Totally understandable. I don't know if their quality is twice that of the R1 rotors. I liked the look of them, and Uncle Sam had just paid me back for over paying him, so that was how I was able to afford them when I got them. I haven't heard anything bad about the R1 rotors so I would go with them; plus you can get them in fashionable party colors.

I'm surprised that SP doesn't do just drilled rotors.:confused: I wonder why? They DO do (heh, dodo) a diamond impression type thing on their rotors that they claim keeps the rotors stronger than drilled rotors and it's kind of a unique look.

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

http://store.r1concepts.com/Items/Item.aspx?sck=10203639&SKU=rac2470%20-%20109.05800&caSKU=rac2470%20-%20109.05800&caTitle=ISUZU%20VEHICROSS%2099-01%20Rear%20Axxis%20Ultimate%20Ceramic%20Brake%20P ads

http://store.r1concepts.com/Items/Item.aspx?sck=10203639&SKU=fac2470%20-%20109.05790&caSKU=fac2470%20-%20109.05790&caTitle=ISUZU%20VEHICROSS%2099-01%20Front%20Axxis%20Ultimate%20Ceramic%20Brake%20 Pads

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=11869&highlight=Axxis


I just installed a full set of the Frozen Rotors on the IronMan along with Axxis Ultimate pads and am very satisfied with the results. The rotors were obtained from TireRack and are the same fitment as Trooper/Rodeo.


I chose the Axxis pads based on what a lot of the Subie crowd was running at the rallycross events and rallysprints, plus there are a couple of VX'ers who have had great results with them.


I'm running R1 Concepts with PBR/AXXIS Ultimate Pads with Independent 4X4 S.S. brake lines and flushed the braking system before refilling with Valvoline Synthetic dot 3 & 4 brake fluid (still glycol based).

I spiked the brakes at about 50mph after they were broke in and it stopped on a dime & gave me 9 cents of change back! I just hope it stays that way!

I did alot of reading on the internet about drilled, slotted rotors to understand it myself. As mentioned in earlier posts....cross-drilled rotors help to vent/shed heat away. Slotted rotors help to "scrape" or "freshen" the pad surface to keep your pads at optimum levels of performance. Drilled & Slotted rotors supposedly offer both features in one package.

Reading this I would expect more amounts of brake dust from slotted rotors as they are scraping the pads. I have noticed more brake dust on my wheels but simply clean them periodically with wheel cleaner when washing the VX.

[twistedsymphony]

TR... I'm also looking for improved calipers... I'm wondering if the brake mounts are the same as the Trooper..

When I test drove my VX the brakes were VERY squishy, the pedal was nearly to the floor before they started to grip and the feedback was horrible, they worked through, and I could even slam them hard enough for the ABS to kick in.

As part of the purchase agreement he replaced the rear rotors and pads, and greased the sliders on the front calipers... the results where much improved braking feedback. Still not as good as it could be though.

Under hard braking I can feel the front end "pulse" a bit which I'm assuming is a result of carbon build up on the rotor, or maybe some slight warping.

The calipers look horrible too they're all rusty and dirty...

If there is one thing I've learned about brakes it's that you can fit pretty much any caliper to any car so long as the mounting points are the same or you're willing to make an adapter. I know a lot of people in the 240 crowd have started adapting the 4 piston STi Brembos to their cars, all it requires is a little hunk of metal with some holes in it to adapt the STi mounting pattern to the Nissan mounting pattern. I've personally got a set of 4 piston 300ZX calipers on my car... Nissan used the same bolt pattern so they fit right up, and make an awesome and cheap upgrade.

I think it would be worth looking to see if there are direct fit replacement calipers for the VX from another vehicle... a good place to start might be looking at what trooper people have done... I'm definitly going to look into SS braided lines, and at least new rotors and pad... if the calipers aren't too bad and there are no good direct replacement options I'll probably have them sand blasted, painted and rebuilt.


As for the best rotors to use
here are some basic concepts about the different features of brake rotors (I seem to be writing a lot of these lately :p )
-rotors with no slots or holes will have the best stopping performance because stopping performance is all about the surface area of the pad in contact with the rotor... holes and slots reduce that contact area.

-drilled rotors add holes that act as gas expansion chambers, depending on the pad material (typically only older organic based racing pads) the friction on the pad will cause it to releases gasses under lots of hard braking a thin layer of gas between the pad and rotor will obviously reduce braking performance... that is why holes have been provided so the gas has some place to escape to since the reduction of the gas layer more than makes up for the loss of contact area in racing applications. This is not something you'd have a problem with in normal street driving, nor with OEM or similar pads.

-slotted rotors the idea of a slotted rotor is that it wipes the pad clean to ensure that the contact area of the pad is even. The reason a pad might not be even is once again the result of hard braking in racing applications. In a race environment the brakes are going from nothing to full clamp back to nothing back to full clamp and the constant cycling of heating and cooling can cause unevenness on the pad surface. The slots actually remove a thin layer of the brake pad to "clean" them. As a result you'll actually dramatically reduce the lifespan of the pad since you're removing a substantial amount more of the pad material with each pass of a slot. Not an issue in racing where the pads get replaced every race, but for street driving meh. If you track your car on the weekends or do something where you're doing a lot of heavy braking then some rotors with a light amount of slotting might be good (maybe 3-4 slots across the entire rotor). Leave the crazy slotting to the race cars.

-Vented Rotors are essentially rotors with a hollow center. The rotor looks like 2 plates with spokes between the two to add structure. These rotors are really good no matter what your application. They wick away heat from the rotor very well which improves braking performance no matter what your application.

--Picking the Right Rotor--
if you're buying drilled/slotted rotors you can calculate the reduction in clamping force based on how many holes and slots are available, knowing the area of the pad simply subtract the area of each hole and slot that is over the pad at any given time (if the rotor is designed properly then the number of slots and holes under the pad should be constant at all times).

--Dangers of buying cheap drilled/slotted rotors--
Depending on the process used to manufacture the rotors having holes in the rotors could go from being something unnecessary to something quite dangerous. Higher quality name brands such as Brembo actually build the holes and slots in the original cast, these are, of course, cleaned up in the final machining, cheaper brands build a plain rotor and drill the holes and mill the slots after the fact... the problem with the latter is that the drilling/milling process causes uneven heat stress at certain spots in the rotor, at a microscopic level the rotor is no long even and it can lead to cracking of the rotor, around the holes and slots... which is never a good thing.

In short:
-for street driving get vented rotors with no holes or slots for the best performance
-for light track or off road use consider a rotor with minimal slots
-if you're building a race only rig... consult your brake tech :rolleyes:
-If you're going to buy drilled/slotted rotors for looks, make sure they're manufactured properly less you risk more than just the rotor braking. :(

a friend of mine wrote up a good overall brake primer that's worth reading if you're interested in more details: http://forums.240sxone.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=89
It has a few 240sx specific references but it's mostly generic brake info, covers pads, calipers, lines, fluid, and bias as well. ;)

[nfpgasmask]

Under hard braking I can feel the front end "pulse" a bit which I'm assuming is a result of carbon build up on the rotor, or maybe some slight warping.

Well, just wait until your ABS craps out like the rest of us and then you won't have to worry about any pulsing any more! ;)



--Dangers of buying cheap drilled/slotted rotors--
Depending on the process used to manufacture the rotors having holes in the rotors could go from being something unnecessary to something quite dangerous. Higher quality name brands such as Brembo actually build the holes and slots in the original cast, these are, of course, cleaned up in the final machining, cheaper brands build a plain rotor and drill the holes and mill the slots after the fact... the problem with the latter is that the drilling/milling process causes uneven heat stress at certain spots in the rotor, at a microscopic level the rotor is no long even and it can lead to cracking of the rotor, around the holes and slots... which is never a good thing.


So what you are saying is that my cheap R1Concepts rotors are probably dangerous? SWEET!

:) Bart

[twistedsymphony]

http://www.mazda6tech.com/images/brake/crackedrotor.jpg
:(

[Ldub]

Well, just wait until your ABS craps out like the rest of us and then you won't have to worry about any pulsing any more! ;)
:) Bart

Bart, as an aside (OK thread jack):rolleyesg, did your ABS crap out before or after you left Chi?

[nfpgasmask]

Bart, as an aside (OK thread jack):rolleyesg, did your ABS crap out before or after you left Chi?

Yes, that is correct. I want to say my ABS light came on about a year ago, was kinda on and off for several months, and now it is constantly on. But personally, I like the feel of the brakes with the ABS off, especially when wheeling. On the ice and snow with a steep downgrade in Reno is another story. I have slid a lot in the snow here and I have to be very careful when driving in the winter here. I have had 2 very scary slides where the VX just didn't want to stop on the downhill. I don't think the ABS had anything to do with it though. Reno does not plow in the winter, and with the drastic temp changes from day to night, we can have it raining in the day, which quickly turns into a nice sheet of ice as soon as the sun goes down, and then it snows on top of that creating wonderful driving conditions. :)

My ABS light came on AFTER I replaced my brakes and rotors for the first time. I don't know if that had anything to do with it, but who knows.

Bart

[twistedsymphony]

Did you ever do any diagnostics on the ABS module to determine why the light came on?

[nfpgasmask]

Did you ever do any diagnostics on the ABS module to determine why the light came on?

Nope, but it is a very common problem with the VX...

Bart

[etlsport]

mine came on after the stainless steel lines went on.. but a good long time after. it seemed to be affected by temperature.. the colder it was the more the abs worked.. until one day it just stopped working all together.. i have the module.. but no real motivation to install it since i have never had a close call due to lack of abs

[clive goodridge]

I lost my VX's abs when I fitted a new set of drilled and slotted rotors which I bought from the US, can't remember the supplier's name though.
It wasn't the rotors fault but the pads they supplied with the rotors and my mechanic who chose to ignore my instructions to fit a pair at a time and fitted all 4 at once.
Everybody had their own thoughts as to why the brakes had gone 'soft' and no abs, they were so bad as to be dangerous as no matter how hard I stood on the pedal it would take far too long to stop:eek:, but I suggested fitting 1 pair of the old pads to a front brake to see and suddenly the brakes started to come back!:)
After fitting the old front pads and a set of new rear standard pads everything was fine again and still is 2 years later.
The supplier, whose name I shall post when I find it, denied this could happen suggesting that we had done something wrong but wanted me to return the new pads to the manufacturer in the US as it was his problem not theirs!
As I'm in the UK shipping costs and no guarantee of a refund prohibited this.
Anyone else experienced 'bad' pads?
I never have in 30+ years of car dealing, racing included.

[nfpgasmask]

I lost my VX's abs when I fitted a new set of drilled and slotted rotors which I bought from the US, can't remember the supplier's name though.
It wasn't the rotors fault but the pads they supplied with the rotors and my mechanic who chose to ignore my instructions to fit a pair at a time and fitted all 4 at once.
Everybody had their own thoughts as to why the brakes had gone 'soft' and no abs, they were so bad as to be dangerous as no matter how hard I stood on the pedal it would take far too long to stop:eek:, but I suggested fitting 1 pair of the old pads to a front brake to see and suddenly the brakes started to come back!:)
After fitting the old front pads and a set of new rear standard pads everything was fine again and still is 2 years later.
The supplier, whose name I shall post when I find it, denied this could happen suggesting that we had done something wrong but wanted me to return the new pads to the manufacturer in the US as it was his problem not theirs!
As I'm in the UK shipping costs and no guarantee of a refund prohibited this.
Anyone else experienced 'bad' pads?
I never have in 30+ years of car dealing, racing included.

Clive, I think is a common problem aftermarket brake suppliers should be aware of. My symptoms were the same with the R1 Concepts brake pads. Simply put, stopping power was gone, resulting in MANY scary situations were my VX did not want to stop. All those problems are gone now with stock pads. Kenny said he found out that it was the thickness of the aftermarket pads.

Bart

[MSHardeman]

Clive,

It sounds like you've solved your problem, but not too long ago I replace all four rotors (SP Performance drilled and slotted), all four sets of brake pads (OEM's), and installed the stainless lines. The brake system drained itself dry (due to my stupidity of not plugging the open hard lines) and I had a bear of a time getting them bled. I finally caved and brought it to a local mechanic who did some research and found out that in order to bleed our brakes properly the engine has to be running during the process.

We got a lot of the air out of the lines, and the VX stops on a dime now, but once stopped if I push on the pedel hard it will go all the way to the floor. I think I just need to bleed the brakes again to make sure all of the air is out of the lines. I spoke with Tone and he said that he went through a LOT of fluid when he did the same thing. So to all I would say; bleed the brakes a few more time to see if that helps stopping power.

[clive goodridge]

Clive, I think is a common problem aftermarket brake suppliers should be aware of. My symptoms were the same with the R1 Concepts brake pads. Simply put, stopping power was gone, resulting in MANY scary situations were my VX did not want to stop. All those problems are gone now with stock pads. Kenny said he found out that it was the thickness of the aftermarket pads.

Bart

The pad thickness was fine it must've been the material-too hard or 'cold'.

Re brake bleeding and pedal travel we've found that the pedal can be made harder and shorter by adjusting the rear calipers. A couple of my VXs had horrible feeling long pedals and this cured the problem.

Thanks for your replies, Clive.

[etlsport]

I'm not sure exactly what my mechanic did to my brakes but when I had him replace the rear pads (oem) and rotors (aftermarket, flat vented).. afterwards my brake pedal barely even makes it to the level of the gas pedal, its nice, tight, predictable, even perfect braking! ;Db;

[twistedsymphony]

I can honestly say that I've never heard of the thickness of pads causing ABS issues...

Brakes are really f-ing simple... you have a big cylinder attacked to the pedal then a bunch of hoses that connect that cylinder to a whole bunch of little cylinders which clamp the pads to the discs.

abs is pretty much completely separate, there are sensors in the drive line that monitor wheel speed, that gets fed to a computer module and when it detects that a wheel has "locked up" based on it's speed then it controls a valve in the brake line to pulse the brakes on and off...

I can't possibly imagine a scenario where changing the rotor (or any other part of the brake system) would set off the ABS light. Theoretically you could completely remove all of your calipers and the BMC too and the ABS would be honkey-dorey as long as the sensors and computer module were ok.

thinner pads could make the brakes squishy... but they would have to be REALLY thin... are these R1 concepts rotors thinner than OEM as well? because that would help.

Upgrading to a larger Brake Master Cylinder (or just adjusting the factory BMC if it's possible) would probably solve the squishy brake issue... or just rebuilding the calipers, or upgrading to better fluid... lots of things and improve brake pedal response. In my experience the pads and rotors have little to do with the firmness of the pedal unless they're both REALLY bad to the point where you're exhausting the capacity of the BMC.

[Gussie2000]

I did replace the stock rotors for the R1 concept rotors,then i bought a canadian-brand ceramics pads,the result hasn't be so desappointed.

After a while i had the squeezing noise,but that happen because i hard to brake had when a couple of eldery were driving and seemed to be lost at that moment,they made a full stop in the middle of no where at 55 mph,my brakes were installed about 60 miles ago and as we know the brake pads needs to adjust it's self for the 1st 1000 miles.

However the squeeze noise is only heard once in the morning when i pull out the garage.

[MSHardeman]

OK, real stupid question but I have to ask it. When anyone with an ABS light issue has replaced their rotors, did you move the ABS sensor ring from the old rotor to the new one? Even after switching out everything (rotors, pads, and lines) on my VX I have not had a problem with the ABS light coming on.

Just a thought.

[etlsport]

OK, real stupid question but I have to ask it. When anyone with an ABS light issue has replaced their rotors, did you move the ABS sensor ring from the old rotor to the new one? Even after switching out everything (rotors, pads, and lines) on my VX I have not had a problem with the ABS light coming on.

Just a thought.

i know my abs troubles are not caused by sensors.. it was diagnosed by isuzu as the abs controller in the engine being bad

[clive goodridge]

My brake/abs problem didn't bring the warning light on but due to the 'cheap' pads no matter how much brake pressure I applied the abs wouldn't work on the road as the pads weren't gripping the rotors enough. If I tried it on gravel/loose surface or cobbles/shiney surface the abs worked fine. Fitting standard pads brought everything including the pedal pressure back to normal. (My mechanic did originally leave the rear, I think, abs sensor rings off which did bring the light on & confuse us even more for a while though!).
Thanks to 'twistedsymphony' for the tutorial on braking systems but new cheap 'bad pads' can cause pedal pressure problems.
Clive

[Kenny]

Clive, I think is a common problem aftermarket brake suppliers should be aware of. My symptoms were the same with the R1 Concepts brake pads. Simply put, stopping power was gone, resulting in MANY scary situations were my VX did not want to stop. All those problems are gone now with stock pads. Kenny said he found out that it was the thickness of the aftermarket pads.

Bart

I found the new pads and rotors substantially decreased pedal travel. I’ve had no issues with ABS.

Although the ABS light did come on when I blew a fuse playing around with my speedo cluster. Replaced the fuse and the light went off.