12 bolt lockers are now available

[Ldub]

Just saw a post over on the wire that I thought some of you may find interesting...:_wrench:
The long awaited "Aussie Lockers" for the Isuzu corp. 12 bolt are now available from www.independent4x.com should start shipping around the 20th to those that have been on the waiting list.:dance:

[nfpgasmask]

Somebody besides me should tell them Indy's link goes to the wrong page.

So Dub, did you go for the preorder? $375 versus the $1000 ARB - I am not a fan of the lunchbox but what a price difference... hmm, my Christmas bonus is going fast and I haven't even got it yet! Decisions decisions...

I thought your Xmas bonus was for a PS3!

;) Bart

[Ldub]

So Dub, did you go for the preorder? $375 versus the $1000 ARB - I am not a fan of the lunchbox but what a price difference... hmm, my Christmas bonus is going fast and I haven't even got it yet! Decisions decisions...

Done & done...just got off the phone, should be shipping by the end of next week barring any un4seens. I'm thinking a lunchbox in the rear, with an air locker in front (someday in the future) will get me up & over most anything I'm nuts enough to try. However, it could get a little squirrly in icy conditions...hope to have it in before May.:naughty:
Also, I see they now have adjustable MONSTER lower links that look mighty tasty.:cool:

[Ldub]

Please, no more ideas! Green Dragon convinced me to stay away from a front locker - he said he never broke a front axle until he used the locker, then he broke a few times. With a front locker, my gears, and my tires, I am sure to break... No thank you! I like to use my trips to wheel, not to wrench!

My thoughts on that are...using Superwinch or Warn (anything other than Aisin...they're too strong) manual front hubs as "fuses" & carrying a spare or two. Yal has posted on this in the past & it makes sense...create a cheaper weak link to save more expen$ive/harder to replace parts.
As you can see "please, no more ideas" doesn't work with me.:rotate:

[Triathlete]

My thoughts on that are...using Superwinch or Warn (anything other than Aisin...they're too strong) manual front hubs as "fuses" & carrying a spare or two. Yal has posted on this in the past & it makes sense...create a cheaper weak link to save more expen$ive/harder to replace parts.
As you can see "please, no more ideas" doesn't work with me.:rotate:


No, no, no...you got it all wrong! Just got to build bigger and stronger!:naughty: Just scrap the 10 bolt! I can't wait until by 10 bolt junk is up for sale on here!

[Ldub]

No, no, no...you got it all wrong! Just got to build bigger and stronger!:naughty: Just scrap the 10 bolt! I can't wait until by 10 bolt junk is up for sale on here!

While I'm sure it's fun to talk about, (going on two+ yrs. now?) I'll believe it when I see it...in the mean time, I'll be turning REAL wrenches & doing mods that ACTUALLY exist. :smilewink-:rotate:-:razzgray:

[ZEUS]

My thoughts on that are...using Superwinch or Warn (anything other than Aisin...they're too strong) manual front hubs as "fuses" & carrying a spare or two. Yal has posted on this in the past & it makes sense...create a cheaper weak link to save more expen$ive/harder to replace parts.
As you can see "please, no more ideas" doesn't work with me.:rotate: Hmm... well... I understand the theory, but struggle with the logic... that is only because you will need the locker in the most extreme situations that will create the most tension. Tension = POP! I know you'll experiment with it, so have fun and keep us posted.
I grenaded a Warn hub on a locked rear full floater kit by giving a little too much gas on pavement. So you are correct, hubs CAN be a fuse! However, the only Super hub we did break, didn't totally let go. It messed up the innards and it had to be replaced, but the hub still held up... front axles though, we have broken 4 times - always when the locker was engaged. Using lockers can increase the rate of fatigue on axle joints, and over time they can weaken and break, even if there is a fuse in place.

As a heads up, I am not sure about Superwinch hubs for Isuzu's, but on our CJ-7, the Super hubs do some strange things when the locker is engaged. The wheel with the most traction is hard to rotate, so what happens is the axle wants to turn and it will turn the hub... but the flange of the hub can put enough force on the mounting bolts to either slowly back them out and/or shear them at the rotor. So may I suggest stepping up to Grade 8 hardware and using loc-tite or some sort of mechanical lock beyond lock washers? :bwgy:

[Ldub]

Hmm... well... I understand the theory, but struggle with the logic... that is only because you will need the locker in the most extreme situations that will create the most tension. Tension = POP! I know you'll experiment with it, so have fun and keep us posted.
I grenaded a Warn hub on a locked rear full floater kit by giving a little too much gas on pavement. So you are correct, hubs CAN be a fuse! However, the only Super hub we did break, didn't totally let go. It messed up the innards and it had to be replaced, but the hub still held up... front axles though, we have broken 4 times - always when the locker was engaged. Using lockers can increase the rate of fatigue on axle joints, and over time they can weaken and break, even if there is a fuse in place.

As a heads up, I am not sure about Superwinch hubs for Isuzu's, but on our CJ-7, the Super hubs do some strange things when the locker is engaged. The wheel with the most traction is hard to rotate, so what happens is the axle wants to turn and it will turn the hub... but the flange of the hub can put enough force on the mounting bolts to either slowly back them out and/or shear them at the rotor. So may I suggest stepping up to Grade 8 hardware and using loc-tite or some sort of mechanical lock beyond lock washers? :bwgy:

Yeah, it's ALL theory at this point in time...a front locker of any type i$ $till a long way off. The grade 8 point is well taken, also, for anything that wants to come loose when it's not supposed to, I'm a big fan of safety wire.:_wrench:
I'll have to see how she does with the rear lunchbox & decide on which direction to go from there.
On another topic, I'm really developing a meaningful lust for those adjustable monster lower links...anyone interested in buying a lightly used set of HD lower links? Been installed about a year, painted red...just throwin it out there.:naughty:

[Triathlete]

While I'm sure it's fun to talk about, (going on two+ yrs. now?) I'll believe it when I see it...in the mean time, I'll be turning REAL wrenches & doing mods that ACTUALLY exist. :smilewink-:rotate:-:razzgray:


I've always said it is a LONG term project....but it WILL happen. I've started gathering info and have been watching the for sale stuff on various sites! The VX will be paid off within a year which will free up some fundage...I will be retiring in 18 months which will free up the time!:bwgy:

[Ldub]

I've always said it is a LONG term project....but it WILL happen. I've started gathering info and have been watching the for sale stuff on various sites! The VX will be paid off within a year which will free up some fundage...I will be retiring in 18 months which will free up the time!:bwgy:

Congrats on being able to see retirement on the horizon...I think you already know I was just givin' you a little jab with my funny comment.:razzgray:
Also, I'm not sure what you have estimated for cost on the parts etc., but if it's anywhere near the 2k mark, I've seen a recent post elsewhere about a Rodeo for sale in Utah that's already been SAS'd with SOA f & r. D-44 from a Jeep.Asking price is $2500 bones. Don't know if it'd be worth it as a parts donor & then part out what's left, but it would be like an instant SAS tutorial to take an already functioning mod & transplant it to your VX. Also, would be nice to have the D-44 rear & convert it to VX use due to better availability of gearing etc. Maybe put your IFS & corporate 12 under the Rodeo & sell it?...just thinkin' out loud as it happens, my wild scheme most likely has some obvious flaws that I didn't think through.:rolleyesg

But hey, if you did the bulk of the work yourself & know a welder that's sympathetic to the cause, you might come out on the deal.

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

A bit off topic...I installed one of these in the rear of my 2WD Dodge Ram for daily driving street duty with occasional "yard-duty" and love it! The PowerTrax locker is very quiet for daily driving...testing it in the snow and am very happy so far. You hear no clicking after 50 miles of break-in. They list Isuzu applications but I don't know if it is compatible with our axle. Their conventional "lunch-box" locker that is noisy is called the LockRite.

http://www.powertrax.com/
http://www.powertrax.com/faq.html

[Ldub]

A bit off topic...I installed one of these in the rear of my 2WD Dodge Ram for daily driving street duty with occasional "yard-duty" and love it! The PowerTrax locker is very quiet for daily driving...testing it in the snow and am very happy so far. You hear no clicking after 50 miles of break-in. They list Isuzu applications but I don't know if it is compatible with our axle. Their conventional "lunch-box" locker that is noisy is called the LockRite.

http://www.powertrax.com/

That's good to hear, how long did the install take? Does it make the rear end get sideways easier?
I'm guessing as I haven't checked out he link, but their Isuzu application may only cover the models that came with Dana rear ends.
Thanks for the info.

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

That's good to hear, how long did the install take? Does it make the rear end get sideways easier?
I'm guessing as I haven't checked out he link, but their Isuzu application may only cover the models that came with Dana rear ends.
Thanks for the info.

The instructions were very good...most of the work is putting all the locker pieces together in your hands...inserting tiny springs...lubing the specified surfaces with assembly grease...removing the Limited slip unit was easy...the only snag I hit was when doing the actual swap there didn't at first appear to be enough clearance to install it...made me think it wasn't the right part# but it finally slipped into place. Tight fit. like 2-3 hours of being overly cautious to install..probably could do it again in like under 2 hrs.

It reacts differently on different surfaces. The best I can describe it is if you give it the right amount of gas on a slippery surface (snow) it reminds me of a NHRA dragster "shaking the tires" in that they oscillate rapidly as if "hunting" for traction and it rapidly subsides as you begin moving forward. If you "hot-dog" (i.e. too much gas) you will go sideways like a crab but, it is pretty forgiving...I did this for like 50 yrds showing off...lol. The closest I'll probably come to "drifting".

If you stop at an intersection and make a right or left turn with normal throttle you won't even know it is there...but, if you are aggressive on the throttle when turning you will bark the inside rear tire as it is trying to drive both tires equally under heavy throttle. The instructions say to ease off the throttle when turning on slippery conditions as heavy throttle will cause the front to understeer (plow, push) but, I haven't experienced this yet.

Personally, I like your idea of using a "lunch box" setup for only the rear axle and using an "air locker" for the front. I woudn't use it in both axles.

[Ldub]

If you "hot-dog" (i.e. too much gas) you will go sideways like a crab but, it is pretty forgiving...I did this for like 50 yrds showing off...lol. The closest I'll probably come to "drifting".

I'm guessing with a longer wheelbase comes more forgiveness...I've found in the past, that the VX being rather short, can & WILL swap ends in the blink of an eye & go crunch into a tree...:rolleyesg
Guess I'd better plan on toning down the skinny pedal during our slippery winters.
Thanks again for the info.

[Ldub]

I heard that some Isuzu's came with a winter mode switch that does some crazy thing like start in 3rd gear. :confused: :rolleyes: Actually, try icy driving with a 6" lifted YJ on 35" BFG MT's with 4.56's, Detroit locker in the rear, and Auburn LSD in the front. The only good thing there was you could glide over half the things you would normally just slide into... curbs, fire hydrants, children, your boss, etc...

LOL...sounds like a line from Johnny Dangerously.

It shoots through schools, Johnny...

[Ldub]

:dance:
Got my open carrier from the man in brown today...also, from a man named Brown.(Matt)
Just sittin' on my couch, dry fitting all the new innards into it, visions of nearly vertical ascents drifting through my brain...:rolleyesg

Dunno if I'll be able to get it done in time for Moab, but having a "sort of" pre assembled locker in your lap has a certain motivational effect...:naughty:

[LittleBeast]

LDub whatever happened here?

This is the only 5.38 they have for the front now:

https://id211.chi.us.securedata.net/independent4x.com/merchantmanager/product_info.php?products_id=461

So basically this "RD94 ARB Airlocker" works by using copmpressed air to lock and unlock the front end (on this particular product), so when in the "unlocked" position (in daily on road driving) how would this effect handling/drivability?

Would it be stupid to have a ARB Airlocker on the front and rear end?

[VX1032]

ARB air lockers are a lot more expensive then the aussie lockers, mainly because they allow you to choose when it is locked. They are a better locker because of it. The aussie locker is always engaged unless it senses that you need to be unlocked, like for turning. The arb you choose when it is locked and unlocked, which makes a much better solution for daily driving. Though with the cost of an ARB at $800-$900 and an aussie half that, usually that makes the choice for most people.

Also, the 5.38s are pretty low gears and would be too low for any tires we run for the street. It would take it past the stock ratio with larger tires on. You would have a lot of power, but the top end would be really limited. I think I figured with my 33" tires I would be running 3500 rpms at 60 mph, which is a far cry from my 2200 now.

[vt_maverick]

Okay, I'll be THAT guy and ask the question: What the he11 are you guys talking about?

Forgive a stupid question, just new to the offroad scene and still trying to learn all the jargon. Got a two sentence explanation for us newbs? :o

[LittleBeast]

I found a Tire/RPM/Ratio Chart (http://www.jeepfan.com/tech/tirerpmratio.htm) and according to the formula on that site:

60 mph + 5.38 gears + 35" tires = 3098 rpm
60 mph + 4.30 gears + 33" tires = 2627 rpm
60 mph + 4.30 gears + 29.6" tires = 2929 rpm (stock)

70 mph + 5.38 gears + 35" tires = 3615 rpm
70 mph + 4.30 gears + 33" tires = 3065 rpm
70 mph + 4.30 gears + 29.6" tires = 3417 rpm (stock)

You are right though 5.38 gears with a 33" or smaller tire would be crazy!

60 mph + 5.38 gears + 33" tires = 3286 rpm
70 mph + 5.38 gears + 33" tires = 3834 rpm

I know this is a Jeep site so for the VX this formula may be a little different, but it does not look like it mentions anything in the formula that is Jeep specific, anyone know if their formula is correct for the VX:

[(MPH x Drive Ratio)/Tire Diameter] x 336 = RPM of the VX?

Also found this one: http://www.4lo.com/calc/geartable.htm and this looks like the best one: http://www.4lo.com/calc/gearratio.htm

But it looks like we need our transmission ratio and our transfer case ratio to make the formula complete, hmm wonder what those numbers are.....

[VX1032]

Littlebeast

Our trucks came standard with 30" tires and 4.30 gears.

I would say the best thing for us would be the 4.77 gears from an 89-91 trooper with the wide tire option. I am gonna be hitting some junkyards when I get the time to look for those. That would put the 33" back to a little more then stock, which is where I want it. I would love the 5.38s for offroad, but then you can not touch the highway.

VT Maverick

The numbers are differential axle ratios. Our truck has a 4.30 in the differentials. As you get larger tires on the vehicle the truck has to do less revolutions per mile and ultimately you run less RPM on the engine. If you get a numberically higher gear in the differential, the driveshaft has to turn more times to get the wheel to do a revolution. Therefore your rpms go up. Typically, when you start putting larger tires on your truck you can eventually regear it so it drives like it did when it was stock. However, you can go beyond it and have a lot more low end power, but have no top end due to the RPMs it will run. That is the situation with 5.38 in our trucks. You can get a tire to match up to stock (36" I believe) but that is hard to fit in our wheel wells.

***edit: I know what I am talking about here, but did you get it?***

lockers are in the differential and lock each of the axle shafts together. This always provides an even 50/50 torque split on the axle. Normally axles need to move independently of each other to allow cornoring. With a locker, cornoring has a lot of stress on the axle. When they move independently the power goes to the wheel with the least resistence, so if your one wheel is in the air it will get 100% power. Not ideal for offroad driving. Our trucks all have a LSD (limited Slip Differential) which moves some power to the other wheel, but still not ideal. Locker is best.

[LittleBeast]

Alright found some info on our 4L30E transmission:

"Used 1990-up.
There are MANY versions and are used in the Cadillac Catera as well many Foreign vehicles and Postal trucks.
This is a computer controlled overdrive transmission.
Rear cooler line is the cooler return line.
Band adjustments:
Intermediate = not used
Reverse = 5 turns

Optional Gear Ratios:
2.86:1 1st gear
1.62:1 2nd gear
1.00:1 3rd gear
0.723:1 4th gear
2.00:1 reverse"

We have the Borg Warner 4422 transfer case:
http://cobratransmission.blogspot.com/2008/05/borg-warner-gear-transfer-case-isuzu-wg.html

[etlsport]

from the VX Knowledge Base link on the side bar of this site

Transmission gear ratios - (:1)
1st: 2.86
2nd: 1.62
3rd: 1.00
4th: 0.72
Rev.: 2.00

Transfer case ratios - (:1)
High: 1.00
Low: 2.48

Axle gear ratios - (:1)
Front: 4.30
Rear: 4.30

[LittleBeast]

from the VX Knowledge Base link on the side bar of this site


DOOOHH! lol woops somehow I overlooked "Gear Ratio" when I went there and didn't find what I was looking for, haha.....

[etlsport]

DOOOHH! lol woops somehow I overlooked "Gear Ratio" when I went there and didn't find what I was looking for, haha.....

heh guess it makes us even with my oversight on your calendar submissions.. i sent them over to knigh7s to be posted up as soon as he can, and ill mention it in the voting thread so that everyone has a chance to vote on your photos too.. since its an average rating system, you wont be at any disadvantage

[vt_maverick]

***edit: I know what I am talking about here, but did you get it?***


Thanks for taking the time to write the detailed explanation! I think I get most of it, but are you saying with the lockers you're literally "locking" it into 4WD ALL the time? And regardless, why are 12 bolts better than 10?

Sorry everyone, not trying to hijack the thread, just learning! -Thx

[VX1032]

With lockers you simply lock each half of the axle together. Each wheel has a axle shaft that meets at the differential. A locker goes in either the front or rear differential and locks the two axle shafts together so that each axle shaft will rotate in sync with the opposite side. You aren't locking it into 4wd, that would be the transfer case, but you are ensuring an even split of torque to each wheel on the axle.

A 12 bolt is our rear axle, a 10 bolt is our front axle. The 12 bolt is a soild axle, the 10 bolt is a IFS (independent front suspension) axle. Basically, the 12 bolt rear axle has a solid tube that houses the axle shafts. The 10 bolt uses CV axles to join the axle tube to the wheels. This allows each side to flex independent of the other wheel. Better on road ride, but weaker joints. Also, the parts of a 12 bolt axle are heavier duty than those of the 10 bolt. It is typical for the rear axle to be a heavier duty axle in vehicles beacuse it can cary the load of cargo, towing, and is usaully the main drive source.

[Ldub]

LDub whatever happened here?

This is the only 5.38 they have for the front now:

https://id211.chi.us.securedata.net/independent4x.com/merchantmanager/product_info.php?products_id=461

So basically this "RD94 ARB Airlocker" works by using copmpressed air to lock and unlock the front end (on this particular product), so when in the "unlocked" position (in daily on road driving) how would this effect handling/drivability?

Would it be stupid to have a ARB Airlocker on the front and rear end?

Unfortunately, I haven't installed mine yet. Summer sort of slipped away...:rolleyesg

I'd check with Matt(Indy 4 X) via phone call before getting a setup third with 5:38's...Unless he's been able to get some 5:38's made for the rear 12, you'll have a hard time (if at all) finding matching ratio rear gearing.

IIRC, the only Isuzus that could use 5:38's, were the ones that came with Dana 44's...check it out, I hope I'm wrong.:_wrench:

[VX1032]

Matt is advertising matching 5.38 locked third members with an ARB in the front and an Aussie in the rear. I think they are 1000 and 1700 each.

5.38s were made for the 12 bolt. They were originally from the icelandic troopers, and then he got them made somewhere.

[Ldub]

Matt is advertising matching 5.38 locked third members with an ARB in the front and an Aussie in the rear. I think they are 1000 and 1700 each.

5.38s were made for the 12 bolt. They were originally from the icelandic troopers, and then he got them made somewhere.

Thanks for bringing me up to speed on that, just got back from a look at Indy4X's website...WOW, what a change since the last time I looked!

I just gotta get out more...:rolleyesg

[LittleBeast]

I reworked the numbers for our 4th gear (over drive) and got this:
Stock Tire/Stock Diff = 60mph @ 2117rpm and 70mph @ 2470rpm
33" Tire/Stock Diff = 60mph @ 1899rpm and 70mph @ 2216rpm
35" Tire/5.38 Diff = 60mph @ 2241 and 70mph @ 2614rpm

That doesn't sound right but according to the formulas and numbers it should be, oh well, I think the 5.38s with 35"s would work.

[VX1032]

5.38 should be good with 35". However, if you take it off road, 35's and lockers are REALLY pushing it for our front axle and you will "probably" be dealing with a lot of broken axles.

[ZEUS]

5.38 should be good with 35". However, if you take it off road, 35's and lockers are REALLY pushing it for our front axle and you will "probably" be dealing with a lot of broken axles.Not only that, but the extra torque the lower gears provide worsens the potential for breakage. BigSwede is running 35" tires and lockers on his Troop though...

[LittleBeast]

So does anyone make HD upgraded front axles for the VX?

[Ldub]

So does anyone make HD upgraded front axles for the VX?

Not that I've heard of, unless you go SAS...:_wrench:

Some people use superwinch manual hubs as "fuses"...creating an inexpensive & easy to change "weakest link"...in theory anyway.

[johnny010]

you could also cryo the axle shafts.

google longfield super axles. you can send your shafts in ...shouldn't cost that much.

[WiSDoM]

the weakness is not the shaft it is a the CV joints and boots